Cheer Form vs Your form *DON'T FLAME*

[Towlie2110]

I recently got moved up to a more advanced gymnastics class, and I got a new instructor. He's alot harder, but I definately like how he pushes me. We got to doing Roundoff backs, and I'm used to having my hands stretched out on my sides, stalling then flipping over. I was pretty proud with how high I was getting, but then he said that I should Set (Get in a sitting position with my hands straight up) before I do the backtuck.

I tried this and noticed a smaller, lower back tuck. He clapped and said It was better, but I definately thought otherwise.


Also, I was doing front tucks(russian style) and he told me I should keep my hands above my head and Throw them straight up and over into a tuck. This resulted in a heel slam on the ground.

Overall, I improved amazingly, but I still don't know if his (Cheer) techniques could improve my moves, or hamper them.


*I'm basicaly the only person who goes there that doesn't do cheer*


*don't flame*

[Raven]

*flame*

[Grenkutzu]

I need gymnastic lessons.

[RockSolid13190]

*flames* i wish u people would stop listening to gymnastics coaches they r idiots and will onlyu screw your tricking techniques

[chicanerous]

Be assertive. If you're on a cheer team then you need to use the same form as the cheerleaders. If you're taking private lessons, his job is to teach you what you want to learn, not turn you into a competitive gymnast or cheerleader.

I'd give his techniques a couple tries though. You shouldn't expect to maximimize them on the first day. With that said, the russian is more powerful than the overhead throw -- there's no reason to go back as long as it's not interferring with the rest of your tumbling. However, you should be able to do a russian without traveling much. If your fronts are traveling more than an arms length in front of you then you should correct that as you're not transferring your run's forward momentum upwards properly.

A russian is supposed to generate a faster rotation and give you more lift, not be an excuse to travel halfway down the plyo.

He probably wants you to set on your round-off backs because you're traveling with those tucks too or because the way you do it looks ugly. In gymnast lingo, a set is not just the seat position, it's also what Dogen calls blocking / stalling; gymnasts combine the two into one word. You may have done the seat but forgot to stall, which is why they were low. Video-tape a good one of each and compare.

A traveling tuck is good if it's within a tumbling chain, but not if it's the finisher.

[musasabi]

*flames* i wish u people would stop listening to gymnastics coaches they r idiots and will onlyu screw your tricking techniques
jesus christ! how could you possibly know? maybe your gymnastics coach sucked ass, but that doesnt mean your situation applies to everyone elses! i know a pair of gymnastics coaches who happen to kick a great deal of ass and helped my flips a _lot_.

shut. up. wakarimasu ka?

sorry i cant offer any real advice for ya towlie, but id just say film it and compare... and then, if you notice some problems, bring them to him in a respectful but (as was previously stated) assertive manner. be sure to post your conclusions when you reach them though; more technique insight is always helpful. :wink:

[Towlie2110]

Thanks for the awesome info Chic.
I think my problem with the Russian, is I travel forward too much, so Maybe throwing over would help. But I just didn't see or feel any improvment over my preaquired style.
I think the stalling is what I'm lacking on my round off back. I'll try and get a vid next time I go. THanks for the info!

[Xenocide]

I'd listen up to what he has to say. Good form makes a trick look much cooler. Compare a sloppy "tricker" roundoff backtuck, to that of a gymnasts, and you'll see what I mean.

[ironskeleton]

hes showing you a new technique that works for a larger variety of moves then the one you probably have now. even though it is not instantly as high, that energy that went into giving you height is going towards improving form, straighter, tighter tuck (which leads to faster rotation) and such. mastering a technique doesn't happen in a day. and if you have the time, its always best to keep neat form and build with that limiting your gains instead of doing something sloppy for instant gain and trying to clean it up.

[Towlie2110]

I guess you guys are right, but after reading all those "Cheer teaches you crappy form to time up to music" I was a little wary of any technique that hampered my move at first.

[[RozoN]]

What is a russian :-/

[chicanerous]

']What is a russian :-/
Russian lift. It's a type of arm swing. Jap lift would be another.

[[RozoN]]

Jap lift? /:-|

Sorry I'm not skilled at those frontflip lifts :-(

I just hold my hands up, block and bring them down.

[chicanerous]

']Jap lift? /:-|

Sorry I'm not skilled at those frontflip lifts :-(

I just hold my hands up, block and bring them down.
Your technique works fine. That's how fronts are normally taught. The other lifts are mainly gone to once you need to do doubles or triples as you need a faster rotation and more power, which they provide. If you can do them correctly and stay in control on a single then you can make it look extremely clean.

They're also not just for fronts and can be used on a variety of skills.

[verymetaldan]

Jap fronts really help with Websters and Losers.

[Matt R]

i wish i had gymnast techinque on my fulls
id be doing triples by now if i did

[verymetaldan]

*flames* i wish u people would stop listening to gymnastics coaches they r idiots and will onlyu screw your tricking techniques


And your basis for this is what?

[Skylark]

Towlie forgot to use his arms in his avatar I think.

[[RozoN]]

Your technique works fine. That's how fronts are normally taught. The other lifts are mainly gone to once you need to do doubles or triples as you need a faster rotation and more power, which they provide. If you can do them correctly and stay in control on a single then you can make it look extremely clean.

They're also not just for fronts and can be used on a variety of skills.
thanks man ur THE MAN!:juji:

[Dovicka]

On my team the "best tumbler" thinks he knows everything about tumbling and he tries to teach me stuff but he has been in gymnastics all his life and can barely double full. My standing full and back tuck are better than his too. Many people think that just because they have been in gymnastics for a while that they are gurus. I do reccommend trying to do the technique he says at least 10 times, that will definately tell you whether it's BS or not. If they try to make you do it lower so you land cleaner then just screw them, just learn to land it clean with massive height.

[TKD_Andy]

this just sounds like:

"My Shit technique gets reamed by a load of gymnastic cheerleaders so im gonna come on TT and tell everyone theyre crap so i think that its not just me who sucks lololololollolololololol"

faget.

[TartanPajamas]

I like to take gymnastics form/technique, then make a couple of my own modifications.

[Shoes Magoo]

Jap fronts really help with Websters and Losers.

Please pardon my ignorance, but in all of my browsing and searching of this site I have never seen these techniques described in detail: Russian lifts, Japanese lifts, Losers.

I see that Russians and Japs are arm swinging methods for flips, but could someone explain the techniques to me? I long to stride from the pale shadow of ingorance in this area.

[Ankyro]

You know how normally to swing your arms forwards and up, or punch thyem up when you do your front flips? A jap lift is where you swing them backwards and up. Crazy, huh? And a loser is the opposite of a gainer. So it is a running backwards frontflip.

[Shoes Magoo]

Ah, thank you for the information. That is crazy; i'll have to try it out :)
*smacks self in forehead* Of course. My brain must have temporarily deleted the correlation between the concepts of gaining and losing. I know i've heard that before. Thanks again for the heads up.

[verymetaldan]

they try to make you do it lower so you land cleaner


Thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard (actually 2nd, after tock_ten's 4000lb deadlift). No self respecting coach or gymnast would ever tell you you had too much hight on a back tuck.

[Towlie2110]

Dan, it's sad, but true. For cheer they want you to time up with the music.

[Dovicka]

BS, a good coach (like mine) will adjust at what time you need to do something instead of telling you to do it lower to be faster, if the coach says do it lower (not necessarily directly) just say, just let me go earlier or something. Cheerleading is quite difficult because you have to do it in time with the music
heres a routine that I found on youtube, they're quite a bit better than my team, but not that much. notice that contrary to popular belief the back tucks are not all landed in crouch, only those who can only land in crouch do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niLfAlSWxpE&search=kentucky%20elite

[ironskeleton]

ugh, too much poorly mixed happy hardore :dead:

it looks cool when they move together in a pack.

[Rianu]

Well, you'll find that the technique he was teaching you is more useful in the long run. On more advanced tumbling passes you can get more height and power with his technique. If you aren't, then you're doing it wrong. You have to spot the wall in front of you, the longer you do that the higher you go and circle your arms behind you for the rotation.

Think about it, try doing a standing back tuck without swinging your arms. It's the same deal with a RO back tuck. You need your arms up to get the amount of power required to do more advanced moves. For instance, when you twist your arms must first go up and then you look under your armpit and pull your arms in to twist. It's many times more difficult to twist without bringing your arms up. Also, you'll be twisting straight off the ground.

[Towlie2110]

yeah, that's true rianu. I'll have to tape myself and see how I'm getting so low on them.

[Dovicka]

Well setting is not simply sitting down, once you have got blocking, looking foreward and not tucking off the ground then the need to "sit" will allow you to flip while continuing to gain height. the point of it, or at least in my experience, is to prevent back bending which can pre-emptively set your centre of gravity. Notice anyone doing a double backflip *well* they aren't super tightly tucked.... they almost look like they are sitting..... I may be completely wrong, but I have looked at many videos and tested it myself and that what I came up with.