x-outs

[thereid]

i've being trying x-outs lately and my question is are you suppose be able to see whats in front of you when you kick-kinda like when your doing a normal backtuck[cause your suppose to look foreward until you tuck and rotate]or should you be leaning back[i can never tell cuz you never get side views of x-outs],so pretty much was i'm saying is does most of the stalling,not looking back principles of backtucks apply in x-outs too.

[sesshoumaru]

This is a good-ass question! Alot of people try to pass off "a straddled backflip" as an X-out! This is Martial Arts Tricking not Cheerleading!

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In Tricking, you want to make everything MA related. Inside of the dojo/dojang, when the instructors goes over Pop 360 Wheel Kicks, they'll tell you to tuck in or spread the "trailing leg" that's not kicking during the kick. They don't tell you this because they think it looks pretty (which it does), they tell you this because it provides balance, and it decreases the probability that the "trailing leg" will be kicked out from under you during a conflict...

Same thing goes for the X-Out...if you were going to actually use an X-Out in combat (which would be crazy), you would'nt want to lay back as you thrust your feet out because:

1.) You're taking your eye off the target sooner then you have to, which is an all-around "no-no".

2.) You're laying back, further exposing your face and abdomen to a probable roundhouse/front kick.

3.) Since you took your eye off the target before you chambered the kick, you're most likely gonna miss the target you're kicking...and if the target is mobile, then you are less aware of where it is by the time you land back into stance.

So when you do an X-Out, just like the Pop 360 Wheel Kick, you want to remove any limbs or part of the body from the "mid-level region". In other words, anytime you're doing an offensive aerial (mid-air) maneuver that is more than 3 feet off the ground, you should do it in such a way so that your body goes over any kick that would hit you in the torso if you were standing straight up. Anytime you do a ("three-staged movement", jump-rotate-kick, i.e.: alot of shit in the air), you want to make yourself as small of a target as possible...

In conclusion, yes, you want to be able to "look" through your legs as you kick the target. Doing so, is what makes the X-Out a Martial Arts Tricking X-Out. Everyone who pioneered the X-Out does it this way...Kim Do Nguyen, Chris Devera, Hoai Le, Anis, Will Valentine (pre-injury), me...

[thereid]

thanks a lot sess-your big explanations of stuff allways make you sound so old and wise.

[sesshoumaru]

thanks a lot sess-your big explanations of stuff allways make you sound so old and wise.

Ahhh...thanx man! I'm not that old...maybe for tricking; but not that old at all. I'm not that wise either! When it comes to MA & martial science, I know what i'm talking about.

Theres alot of "philosphers" on TT you can talk to for an enlightening conversation about MA or tricking. Personally, I enjoy discussing things with Syko (Syko Dragon) from time to time! It's good to get a different perspective on things...

[shengoikee]

nice explanation sessh. i really admire your views on tricking. :good:

[thereid]

yeah i know your not old-but when did you start tricks-it sounds like you've been doing it longer than anyone.

[sesshoumaru]

yeah i know your not old-but when did you start tricks-it sounds like you've been doing it longer than anyone.

I wouldn't consider "how long", a reason as to why "I know". I rather think of it as my perspective on the issue. Growing up the way I did, and taking so many different forms of martial arts, makes me question and extrapolate the many fassets of martial arts in general (martial science). With this mind-set, I feel like I'm able to (and must) give accurate depicitions of what a trick should be, and what it shouldn't be...based on collective martial knowledge of course!

[sebben]

I wouldn't consider "how long", a reason as to why "I know". I rather think of it as my perspective on the issue. Growing up the way I did, and taking so many different forms of martial arts, makes me question and extrapolate the many fassets of martial arts in general (martial science). With this mind-set, I feel like I'm able to (and must) give accurate depicitions of what a trick should be, and what it shouldn't be...based on collective martial knowledge of course!


wich differt forms of martial art have you been practising? when did you start?

[sesshoumaru]

Since the beginning...when I was too young to walk or speak, my father would quote martial philosphies to me. The instant I could walk and understand bi-pedal motion, I was in the honmaru.

I've been exposed to over 60 different froms of martial arts (armed/un-armed), and I've recieved my black belt in more than 23 of them...I won't go into the details of my training back then, but let's just say "it was brutal."

[Zephyranthes]

I do martial arts and cheerleading, so does that mean I'm allowed to do it both ways lol?

[sesshoumaru]

I do martial arts and cheerleading, so does that mean I'm allowed to do it both ways lol?

Sure you can...you can do your X-Outs however you want to do them, but when you're tricking...it would be admirable if you went through the trouble of doing the "tricking version".

When Kim Do innovated the X-Out, he didn't do it laying back, and he still doesn't. It would be kinda disrespectful for you to do what you "think" an X-Out should be and call it an "X-Out", when it's not nearly as hard/technical. It would be cheating Kim in a way...you know what I'm saying?

[TartanPajamas]

Now that we are on the topic of X-Outs, would you guys consider this one a proper X-Out? If not, tips are welcomed.

**EDIT** Uhm...right, here's the link:

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=5516B579630D316D

[thereid]

well-as you can see from this thread i can't do them yet,but are'nt you suppose to go up with your arms kinda crossed-i just know that from juji's tutorial,but that was still good.

[Towlie2110]

I do cheerleading as well for the record.

I personally like the X out where you get a nice split kick *Hands straight and pointed down* Whether or not you look back I would say is preference to the trickster.

If you whip back your backtucks, you will probably do the same for your X out.

The X-out has been around a long time, and just like any other move, it's up for interpretation and preference.

Of course there are certain methods that have proven great results, but you can always think of different ways to do certain moves.

also, Sessh how would you say a flash should be thrown?

[sesshoumaru]

Flash?

It should be have more whip than it has float. However, it depends on how high you're imagining your target. If it's high, then you have to float up and whip over; otherwise you won't get full contact with the target...but regardless it should have whip during the kick. If it doesn't have enough whip, and you were to really hit a target...you won't make it to your feet!

[sesshoumaru]

Now that we are on the topic of X-Outs, would you guys consider this one a proper X-Out? If not, tips are welcomed.

**EDIT** Uhm...right, here's the link:

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=5516B579630D316D


You have a pretty good set, but you need to look towards the target until your legs are thrusted into extention. There should be a brief moment where we can see your face in between your legs as they're locked in extention.

Otherwise, it's fine...you can try to get more spread, but that's an issue of flexibility, not execution.

[Towlie2110]

So should you keep your eyes on the target during a flash, or whip back and hope for the best.

[Workerz]

Sure you can...you can do your X-Outs however you want to do them, but when you're tricking...it would be admirable if you went through the trouble of doing the "tricking version".

When Kim Do innovated the X-Out, he didn't do it laying back, and he still doesn't. It would be kinda disrespectful for you to do what you "think" an X-Out should be and call it an "X-Out", when it's not nearly as hard/technical. It would be cheating Kim in a way...you know what I'm saying?

Zeph, I agree with Sess, there's nothing wrong with doing your cheer leading way just don't claim it to be a true X-out.

[TartanPajamas]

You have a pretty good set, but you need to look towards the target until your legs are thrusted into extention. There should be a brief moment where we can see your face in between your legs as they're locked in extention.

Otherwise, it's fine...you can try to get more spread, but that's an issue of flexibility, not execution.

Thanks for the tips, I'll try it out next time I trick.

[Towlie2110]

Zeph, I agree with Sess, there's nothing wrong with doing your cheer leading way just don't claim it to be a true X-out.

X-outs were around way before MA tricking.

Matter of fact, so was Cheerleading.

I hate getting into technicalities, but if we're talking a true X-out we would be referring to the gymnastic version. Or if you mean a true trickster X-out then that's fine too.

Just saying the X-out has not always been done the way you described.

[Workerz]

X-outs were around way before MA tricking.

Matter of fact, so was Cheerleading.

I hate getting into technicalities, but if we're talking a true X-out we would be referring to the gymnastic version. Or if you mean a true trickster X-out then that's fine too.

Just saying the X-out has not always been done the way you described.

What you say is probably true I wouldn't know, I've never heard of the gymnastic X-out but my point is, we are MA Tricking, so we should do the true MA Tricking X-out.:smile:

[Towlie2110]

I say you do whatever you like and whatever you think looks best.

You can take other peoples opinions, but I dislike saying any one way is the "right" way