Clean and Jerks - amazing lift?

[TKD_Andy]

I really like clean and jerks. Theyre a real full body explosive power technique.

What kind of weights do you guys shift? Ive been doing C+J for around two months now, and im not particularly strong, i generally do 70kg for 10-20 reps.

any input would be good.

[acidhell1]

explosive strength stems from maximum strength. You must explode through the hips and have proper technique to reap the benefits andy.
Olympic lifts also teach you the TRUE POWER of the posterior chain (mainly glutes/hams). They also teach you the secret to jumping power and basic positioning.

Too many ppl jump with too much knee bend (thus decreasing leverage and not using the post.chain to the max). By implementing much less knee bend and more hip YOU JUST GET MORE EXPLOSIVE, jump higher etc.

Anyways, olympic lifts are not the end all be all,end can be replaced with plyometrics for example. Relative strength is key to many athletic endeavors.

here is my 100kg push press. (including a powerclean)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br3VIxmZxmk
not the greatest form.

[acidhell1]

and no olympic lifts involve only LOWER BODY power. not upper body.

[TKD_Andy]

thanks man.

yeah i know what you mean about the explosivity. When i train with some of my gym buddies, one of them literally stays as still as possible, then lifts it to his shoulders, then tries to standing military press 60+kg... suffice to say it just aint happening.

Dont worry i use explosive power, when i was doing 67.5kg the other session i accidentally ended up snatching it instead of a C+J as i exploded up too high to rest the bar on my shoulders before jerking it.

[anfeyd]

I'd drop the reps and increase the weight. That ammount of reps can bring about fatigue and degrade your form.


Dont worry i use explosive power, when i was doing 67.5kg the other session i accidentally ended up snatching it instead of a C+J as i exploded up too high to rest the bar on my shoulders before jerking it.

For for a clean and a snatch are different enough that this shouldnt happen. The grip you would have for a clean would not suffice for a snatch, and your form would probably be junk.

[jan]

I can clean 100kg. It's a weird technique, as I never seem to increase much:P

[acidhell1]

The most common errors are:

1) bending the arms throughout the pull
2) not using the hook grip (yeap it takes some getting used to)
3) no scoop , as a result of an imporper first pull.
4) catching with low elbows

discussing set/rep schemes is pointless if techinque is not good AND consistent.

but as a rule of thumb, VERY LOW REPS (1-3) and numerous sets(2-6) are good.

[Ashtar]

Olympic lifts like this are a good demonstration of explosiveness. I wouldn't use them to build power, because it's safer to work with weights lighter than you're able to lift when doing these, at least initially anyway. Odds are this would transfer into a lot of other things where you need to manage weight, balance, and stuff.

[jan]

The most common errors are:

1) bending the arms throughout the pull
2) not using the hook grip (yeap it takes some getting used to)
3) no scoop , as a result of an imporper first pull.
4) catching with low elbows

discussing set/rep schemes is pointless if techinque is not good AND consistent.

but as a rule of thumb, VERY LOW REPS (1-3) and numerous sets(2-6) are good.

I'm most definitely bending my arms slightly, but I've been trying to fix that. What do you mean by "hook grip"? Normal grip, palms facing towards your body?

Wtf is a scoop?

Low elbows: YES.

My technique sucks, but I already knew that:)

[acidhell1]

IMHO, if you get stronger relative to your bw (especially posterior chain-hips... squatting movements) you will become more explosive.

[acidhell1]

HOOK GRIP is completely necessary if you perform olympic lifts.. its a one way street. --> http://tomgorman.moonfruit.com/hookgrip
it helps you relax your arms, among other things.

scoop, is the natural unconscious rebending of the knees (or even better the shifting of your knees under the bar) as the bar pass your knees... it will happen naturally for most people.

bending the arms= 0wnage

[anfeyd]

Odds are this would transfer into a lot of other things where you need to manage weight, balance, and stuff.

If you mean the movement of olympic lifts- they contain the fundamental movement to most athletics, the triple extension.

[Ashtar]

Ankle/knee/hip? Or maybe you mean shoulder... not sure.

Anyway yeah, they're best for building combined power. I still think you can build more power in one joint with less complicated exercises, but then the olympics put them together.

[Tsumaru]

I actually decided to put clean and jerks into my new routine. I've tested it a few times on lighter weights to start getting down the form and it's feeling nice already. We'll see how heavy I can go once I actually start working with them for real.

[Lobo]

and no olympic lifts involve only LOWER BODY power. not upper body.
No..

[compleks]

No..

[Lobo]

Actually I might have misread that due to obtuse wording.

[Tsumaru]

Yes?

[compleks]

Actually I might have misread that due to obtuse wording.
I believe so.

[acidhell1]

If you think olympic lifts involve the upper body to any significant degree,you are doing them wrong, and you d' be better off not doing them at all.

[anfeyd]

If you think olympic lifts involve the upper body to any significant degree,you are doing them wrong, and you d' be better off not doing them at all.

No..

No..


....

[Baldwin]

i generally do 70kg for 10-20 reps.

Do you mean proper clean and jerks or do you mean smith machine military presses?

[Lobo]

If you think olympic lifts involve the upper body to any significant degree,you are doing them wrong, and you d' be better off not doing them at all.
Oh, so that is what you meant. No I'm sorry, it looks like you were incorrect after all.

[TKD_Andy]

Do you mean proper clean and jerks or do you mean smith machine military presses?

freeweight... how the hell do you clean and jerk on a machine? :eh:

oh and guys, i did 75kg today for 5 reps, woo!

[compleks]

How are your collar bones?

[TKD_Andy]

what do you mean?

[Tsumaru]

Lobo, he's right. None of the muscles in your upper body contract in a clean and jerk, or a snatch, or any time where you are lifting the weight above your head and holding it there. Idiots. Don't you know anything about anatomy? The quads abduct the shoulder, the glutes externally rotate it, and the hamstrings elevate and rotate the scapula. That's how these movements are performed. Duh.

[Lobo]

Ha ha! Exactly.

[Eirik Raude]

Lobo, he's right. None of the muscles in your upper body contract in a clean and jerk, or a snatch, or any time where you are lifting the weight above your head and holding it there. Idiots. Don't you know anything about anatomy? The quads abduct the shoulder, the glutes externally rotate it, and the hamstrings elevate and rotate the scapula. That's how these movements are performed. Duh.

Yay!

[The Laughing Man]

If you think olympic lifts involve the upper body to any significant degree,you are doing them wrong, and you d' be better off not doing them at all.

:tongue:

http://www.wamajama.com/wamajama/wp-content/files/Cupofshutthef-upsmall_06_06_2003.jpg

[Lobo]

Which would be an entirely different exercise.

[Lobo]

Thanks for the backstory, which I already read in this very thread.

[acidhell1]

Upper body is used for stabilization of the weights, and the traps at the top of the 2nd pull is the only upper body muscle which contributes to the correct execution of the lifts
Yes, the arms, abs, shoulder are used ONLY FOR STABILIZATION of the weights.
end of story. unless you perform the pathetic olympic lifts (muscle cleans/snatches) popularized by ignorant fools.

Otherwise if you use your arms (bend your elbows, or actually try to upright row/reverse curl) the weight, it's called a muscle clean or a muscle snatch. The arms are FUCKING STRAIGHT. BEnd them and u lose power from the hips.

In the jerk, all the drive comes from the leg and you either receive the bar witha split at arms length (or by rapidly squatting undereath it).
If you push the weight with the arms the lift gets cancelled.

[Lobo]

Shut the fuck up already.

[The Laughing Man]

Upper body is used for stabilization of the weights, and the traps at the top of the 2nd pull is the only upper body muscle which contributes to the correct execution of the lifts
Yes, the arms, abs, shoulder are used ONLY FOR STABILIZATION of the weights.
end of story. unless you perform the pathetic olympic lifts (muscle cleans/snatches) popularized by ignorant fools.

Otherwise if you use your arms (bend your elbows, or actually try to upright row/reverse curl) the weight, it's called a muscle clean or a muscle snatch. The arms are FUCKING STRAIGHT. BEnd them and u lose power from the hips.

In the jerk, all the drive comes from the leg and you either receive the bar witha split at arms length (or by rapidly squatting undereath it).
If you push the weight with the arms the lift gets cancelled.

Just incase ya didn't see the last one:smile: :

http://www.wamajama.com/wamajama/wp-content/files/Cupofshutthef-upsmall_06_06_2003.jpg

[compleks]

You all need to get off the band wagon.
Although his wording was somewhat confusing, acidhell is correct. I would agree with almost everything he has said in relation to olympic lifting.

[Lobo]

No.

Upper body is used for stabilization of the weights, and the traps at the top of the 2nd pull
This is fair comment.

If you think olympic lifts involve the upper body to any significant degree,you are doing them wrong, and you d' be better off not doing them at all.
This is complete bullshit.

[Antoine]

olympic lifts need all the body. If you think the shoulders dont work on a fucking snatch or whatever then you really are retarded, and should stop lifting and take ballet lessons.

[TKD_Andy]

thats what i was thinking, but seeing as i dont have the experience (or cockiness) of most of you i didnt want to say anything.

[Baldwin]

dude your just a fucking gay you are a cocky cunt

[J.B. II]

olympic lifts need all the body. If you think the shoulders dont work on a fucking snatch or whatever then you really are retarded, and should stop lifting and take ballet lessons.
i love ballet! i branle when taking ballet lessons, branleh. once i branled so much that the girl dancing next to me was completely covered with branle when the lesson ended.

ballet is very branle. you all should take some ballet lessons, branleh, because ballet increases your branle abilities if you branle when branling ballet, branleh. and ballet also branles your balance if you branle well enough!!!!

BRANLE BRANLE BRANLEEEHH!!!!!!!!!!!

[compleks]

This is complete bullshit.

Well, that is what I would have disagreed with. But 'significance' is open for interpretation, and I think the point he was making is that the upperbody isn't nearly as important as the lower.
But still, full body for the win.

[Tsumaru]

I think we can all agree that the main power behind the lifts are the legs, but to say that none of the upper body is used to any significant degree is just, as Lobo said, complete bullshit.

[anfeyd]

end of story. unless you perform the pathetic olympic lifts (muscle cleans/snatches) popularized by ignorant fools.


Yes, extremely pathetic lifts.

[jan]

Real men do bicep curls!!!

[Trixter]

I do Jan curls :juji:

[Tatsumaru]

Leg extensions are manly too!

[jan]

Leg extensions are TEH SHITZ! etc

[Antoine]

i love ballet! i branle when taking ballet lessons, branleh. once i branled so much that the girl dancing next to me was completely covered with branle when the lesson ended.

ballet is very branle. you all should take some ballet lessons, branleh, because ballet increases your branle abilities if you branle when branling ballet, branleh. and ballet also branles your balance if you branle well enough!!!!

BRANLE BRANLE BRANLEEEHH!!!!!!!!!!!


yes! YES! YESSSSSSSSS!

[TKD_Andy]

haha this thread got sooo random.

you're a moron if you think that C+J's dont use your upper body.

[Tsumaru]

I missed TT. *tear*

[DeeJay]

I clean after I jerk, lololololol.

[Gusch]

I actually laughed DeeJay. Am I pathetic?

[Antoine]

I clean after I jerk, lololololol.

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

[Ashtar]

When you have to do pulls with straight arms like in a deadlift or just hanging from a chin bar or whatever, I know the bicep works some, but would most of the stress be on the elbow ligament?

[Pake]

Hahahahaha... I fucking love you guys. I read the first page of this thread and was about to make a long post, but then I noticed Lobo's and Antoine's posts.
Hahhahahaahahahah... Awesome.