T102: Kicking 101: Trick 2 Kill...

[sesshoumaru]

It seems that the original post of K101 has been taken off of TT, so I got cracking on making another version of it. This time it comes complete with more information about each kick, little factoids, and diagrams!

I've spent the past 57 hours working on this, without sleep, so don't overlook this section of the "tricking manual" that I've been compiling.

Remember: I already know this stuff, I'm doing all this work to help y'all...so please take the time to review it's contents.


Link: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=32F3912647A7AEC0
Mirror 1:http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=E9422BD267E11078
Mirror 2: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=761426916A71AF71
Mirror 3: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=A2ECC3E73382E572
Mirror 4: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=80A0FE2473FDC16B

Enjoi!

[Cicero]

Love love love

[Seriy]

So much for my new year present! haha, thx! =]]]

[DarkXacreD]

Foreword. Not Forward.

[sesshoumaru]

Foreword. Not Forward.

Yeah, you're probably right! Must of had a relapse or something. Dang...I've written it like that on all of the "T10X" posts! Thanks for pointing that out.

[Scalco]

Woohoo, thanks sess, your articles help so much. It's great to know that you're here to help everyone else out.

[doublejay]

your documents are a great enrichment for the tricking world
thank you

[glide2]

Hey Sess how about a video of your basic kicks to further illustrate your mighty omniscience of kicking?

[brandon904]

Hey Sess how about a video of your basic kicks to further illustrate your mighty omniscience of kicking?

http://www.aeriformmat.com/mainn.html

then hit the "general MAT kicking rules..."

It's a severely underrated page imo.

[alpha7158]

sess, for future reference
divshare.com
and
snapdrive.net
are much better for hosting that yousendit. This is because the links don't expire like yousendit.

[Hapkidoka]

Damn... that was incredibly thorough and very well written!

I read through all your descriptions and even though I already know how to "properly" execute every kick mentioned (at least according to the fact that I have already tested on all these basics during my gup levels) I picked up quite a few intricacies that I was not aware of or simply had not thought about before.

It's cool that you added the little factoids and diagrams as well. All in all, this is a truly informative guide and an ESSENTIAL read for anyone that wants to start tricking and make it look good (especially those that are getting into it without any previous MA training).

You alluded to the fact that we all have a responsibility as pioneers and propagators of this sport to make sure that we stay true to the roots of it's origin and therefore we have to master the basic skills and I couldn't agree more.

Mad props go out to you Sess! Not only are you an iconic figure in our subculture who inspires tricksters the world over to train harder, you are fast becoming one of the most helpful members of this community!

Oh, and 57 hours? Jeebus! That's a lot of time sacrificed for the sake of helping others... Thank you for all that you do!

[sesshoumaru]

sess, for future reference
divshare.com
and
snapdrive.net
are much better for hosting that yousendit. This is because the links don't expire like yousendit.

Nice to know...thanx for the info!

[TKD Tim]

That's a great article! I like how you break down "big" or "fancy" tricks into the basic movements which comprise them; it's pretty much how I've always thought of tricks. Love the use of accurate terminology with the Korean names for the different kicks, I even learned a few new ones!

I also loved the FLCL background. ^^



P.S. I always thought that the roundhouse version of the jacknife was easier, but not as cool looking as the crescent version.

[Garou]

Awww. The link is dead. I wanted to check this out, too.

[Workerz]

Thank you so much Sess, I hope you know how much everyone appreicates the massive amount of work you put into this.

Edit: Could someone who has this people upload it again somewhere? I really want this and the links have expired.

[Lees Dragon]

yea... i need the pro advice.. needs uplinking

i need to know who the mighty sesh is

[toyy]

Is it only me or what, the file is expired from yousendit.

[biyak]

can some one re upload it please!

[Tong-Len]

can some one re upload it please!

http://www.trickstutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18584

[biyak]

tnx! :}

[qiufung]

nice :wink:

[brandonn]

could someone rehost this please? the file has expired in original post.

[Djp]

oh man they've all expired, anyone kind enough to re upload?

[bubbaramrod]

yeah please upload again, sounds delicious

[kristo]

They're all on bilang.com somewhere.

[Serial]

Yeah, their on aeriformMAT too

http://www.aeriformmat.com/sesshoumaru.html

[Tong-Len]

if you want the articles from sessh all in one pdf document...

go to: http://www.loopkicks-dvd.com/media.php

[moose_lee]

Awww. The link is dead. I wanted to check this out, too.

Damn it. I wanted to check it out too.

[sesshoumaru]

It can be found here (http://www.bilang.com/system.php?cat=misc&page=documents).

[El Fostro]

It can be found here (http://www.bilang.com/system.php?cat=misc&page=documents).

Yay! Sessh, I will honor you everytime I trick forever!

[moose_lee]

It can be found here (http://www.bilang.com/system.php?cat=misc&page=documents).

you sir. are awesome

[Trel]

Hey Sesh, what are you going to do when you reach 100% at class F trickz? Invent a class G ?

[sesshoumaru]

There kinda already is [Ultimates]...

[Kyukodo Gaz]

There kinda already is [Ultimates]...

Fuckin A!!! I can see the word 'triple' in there...

Is it going to be an addendum to the document Sessh?

[sesshoumaru]

The world may never know...

In all honesty, there is a secret agreement to what we [the so-called "elitist"] release. There are alot of tricks that don't do when we trick with "outsiders", because we don't want it released to the public :wicked:

[Kyukodo Gaz]

Why :eh:

A lot of us can't aspire to do them in the near future anyway! What would you lose by releasing them? Is it because they are yours and you know that people will ultimately remove that identity by removing the uniqueness of the technique (by doing or trying to do it themselves).

[sesshoumaru]

It's a safty measure to prevent aspiring trickers from trying things that's beyond their capabilities. Some people just wanna be "the man" just cause, and we recognize that. As leaders [sort to speak], it's our responsibility to do what we can to keep trickers advancing safely. A Dub Gainer would be too inticing for people to leave alone, and some bloke is gonna have a go at it for kicks...and end up killing himself.

Instead...we wait until the community as a whole has progressed to certain level of understanding and physical capability. Then we release more stuff :smile:

[Dave]

That is extremely interesting.... extremely.......

Also, how does one calculate these Class percentages? Is there any way other than manually doing it?

[sesshoumaru]

Are you talking about my sig?

[Dave]

Indeed.

[sesshoumaru]

It's simply just the percentage of tricks that I currently have in my arsenal from each class. The specific checklist comes from T101. To answer the question, yes it inputed manually.

[Kyukodo Gaz]

I respect your (andthe other top trickers) position, but I also think it could be a little 'nanny state.' I want to see the top stuff because I love seeing awesomely skilled trickers doing their thang. I would never attempt half of what I see them do, it would cause me injuries almost instantaneously. I know my limits.

Having said that... I know lots of people that definitely don't!

[Hisoka]

Links are down :(, Could someone please repost it?

[Spyder_V]

Links are down :(, Could someone please repost it?

Yes please...

[maxx]

its in bilang.

[Snake]

Thank you for making these sesshoumaru :)
http://bilang.com/system.php?cat=misc&page=documents

[brazilianguy]

Thank you very much.

[Scott]

The world may never know...

In all honesty, there is a secret agreement to what we [the so-called "elitist"] release. There are alot of tricks that don't do when we trick with "outsiders", because we don't want it released to the public :wicked:

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Do the Illuminati know about this? :tongue:

[pete_man_man]

Woohoo, thanks sess, your articles help so much. It's great to know that you're here to help everyone else out.

OH SHIT SCALCO!!! thanks to your avatar i finally understand the snapuswipe and how it's done.... i need to trick...

[TrickyHickyX]

The world may never know...

In all honesty, there is a secret agreement to what we [the so-called "elitist"] release. There are alot of tricks that don't do when we trick with "outsiders", because we don't want it released to the public :wicked:

You are without doubt the amalgamation of absolutely every reason I hate the tricking community today. You promote categorising tricks by difficulty as if your level of difficulty for a certain move is obviously going to be exactly the same as everyone else [how fucking retarded!] Your so desperate to get people to say "wow your amazing" that you actually try to rename tricks to make your lazy ass attempts get more recognition I'm talking specifically here about the raping of the suicide swipe... you CANNOT just do a bad sideswipe and try to change the definition of tricks to accomodate your abilities... if you can't do a move then TOUGH SHIT get practicing until you can... don't try to redefine tricks to suit your own standard you lazy son of a bitch, you make me so angry, I wanna beat the fucking ugly out of you! [which will take a damn long time i'm sure]

You're an ego-centric, arogant prick with a wholly unfounded messiah complex! I don't know what level your 'actual' tricking skill is and frankly I couldn't care less. [note: by 'actual' im talking about whatever moves you may have actually accomplished, not the bullshit ones you lie about to gain recognition.]

You remind me of a guy I work with who likes to lie about having sex with girls to gain the respect of his piers... he is full of confidence when there are none to be seen, but as soon as theres a girl in sight he's the quietest person you've ever seen! The guy watches so much sci-fi that he is in actual fact convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that aliens built pyramids and claims to have irrefutable evidence, which begs the question as to why he's still working with me and not a multi millionaire huh ^^ [In short, he's a liar, plain and simple... and so are you.]

What with your super mega secret ninja clan training and heritage and your 'safety' precautions since you've become 'available to the community', I think it's entirely possible that i've never before heard of someone so utterly full of poppy cock! If any person ever did have that kind of background then they'd never be so shallow and for want of a better [and more offensive] word unprofessional enough to be plastering it all over the community. I fucking hope to God that anyone on here who says they believe you is just humouring you otherwise I'd say the community is more full of retards than I could possibly have imagined.

I've met plenty of people like you who don't get the attention of their piers because they're either boring or retarded [I'm sure either could be applied to you] so they make up ridiculous stories to gain that attention...

My advice to you... use your little lego legs to hobble on down to your local library or video store and try thinking up some more feesible bullshit [perhaps how in actual fact you invented tricks 200 years ago when you witnessed a great kryptonian warrior fall off a cliff and do a thousand twists before landing upright]

...Jackass!

[Kyukodo Gaz]

There are many people upon here that don't care whether those stories are true or not. What i do know, is that sessh is one of the most skilled trickers upon the planet, and easily whups 99% of tricker's asses in the world. I hate people who come on here and bash from the word go. Who cares whether he has done some of the tricks, he knows the definitions of them and how they are done. Who cares whether he gives them stupid names, terminology has always been a bag of shite anyway. Who cares if he puts tricks in order of difficulty, until you are a balanced tricker, you have no fucking idea of what is harder and what isn't, and how many balanced trickers are there..? Not fucking many.

If you don't like the documents he made, don't use them, and don't read them. You don't have to accept them, this is still a free community and nothing anyone says on here just goes. People question all the time, and we are allowed to do so. If however you are going to question and critique, don't be a fucking dick about it.

By the way, it's peers, and not piers. They are long structures that extend out into a body of water.

[Karate-Obi]

OMG... HAHAHAHA wow that must have been the most hate filled uber burn ive read in my whole life... if i could sig that whole post i would... (post above gaz's)

back on topic.. thnx for the article sessh, hopefully itll help me better figure out some of the things i need to work on, cause right now i think my technique is right... maybe its not ill just read and find out :P

*waits for a reply to hilarious above post*

DAM YOU GAZ! posting before me....

[Locke]

Ok Sess can trick well... no doubt, thats everyones reply to ANYONE saying ANYTHING negative about him "oh well, he can trick superwell!", even if the problem isnt anything to do with his tricks.

Like... ok... honestly, when you read a post like this:

It's a safty measure to prevent aspiring trickers from trying things that's beyond their capabilities. Some people just wanna be "the man" just cause, and we recognize that. As leaders [sort to speak], it's our responsibility to do what we can to keep trickers advancing safely. A Dub Gainer would be too inticing for people to leave alone, and some bloke is gonna have a go at it for kicks...and end up killing himself.

Instead...we wait until the community as a whole has progressed to certain level of understanding and physical capability. Then we release more stuff :smile:

..how can ANYONE take it seriously... like... come the fuck on, I dont even care HOW good you are, get the hell over yourself. I just hope thats a joke to see how far you can go with people still taking you seriously cause...

"Instead...we wait until the community as a whole has progressed to certain level of understanding and physical capability. Then we release more stuff"

Goes beyond arrogance, you think people cant even TRY the unbelievable godly things you are capable of without hurting themselves so you have to ration your awsomeness to protect the community... aha.hahahahah right

[TrickyHickyX]

There are many people upon here that don't care whether those stories are true or not. What i do know, is that sessh is one of the most skilled trickers upon the planet, and easily whups 99% of tricker's asses in the world. I hate people who come on here and bash from the word go. Who cares whether he has done some of the tricks, he knows the definitions of them and how they are done. Who cares whether he gives them stupid names, terminology has always been a bag of shite anyway. Who cares if he puts tricks in order of difficulty, until you are a balanced tricker, you have no fucking idea of what is harder and what isn't, and how many balanced trickers are there..? Not fucking many.

If you don't like the documents he made, don't use them, and don't read them. You don't have to accept them, this is still a free community and nothing anyone says on here just goes. People question all the time, and we are allowed to do so. If however you are going to question and critique, don't be a fucking dick about it.

By the way, it's peers, and not piers. They are long structures that extend out into a body of water.


HAHA You know... there was another community of people that didn't care that their idol destroyed their heritage, twisted the truth to gain recognition and tried to redefine its own operating paramaters for greater success... they were called NAZI'S!!!

PS Thanks for correcting my spelling, God knows that had you not pointed that out my argument would've been completely null and void [it's always a good sign when people take the last resort when they can't actually find a substantial reply ^^]

[Scott]

*dances back and forth* now this is exciting!

[Kyukodo Gaz]

Now that is a critique with some relevance and some rationale.

However, I didn't say anything about believing what he has said, nor did I back up his arguments with some bullshit about his skill. I did say he was one of the best trickers in the world, in response to:

You're an ego-centric, arogant prick with a wholly unfounded messiah complex! I don't know what level your 'actual' tricking skill is and frankly I couldn't care less. [note: by 'actual' im talking about whatever moves you may have actually accomplished, not the bullshit ones you lie about to gain recognition.]


I would definitely dispute the words 'wholly unfounded,' and if you say it's a messiah complex, then I believe you Sigmund.

[Locke]

Ah, well I think he was refering there to the X amount of super secret stuff no-one has ever done but he wont release to "protect us" (like triplefulltwistdoublebacks havnt been in gym vids on national TV for decades, even if it WAS true...)

[Scott]

The whole "not letting the community at large in on our top secret Area 51 tricks" thing is kinda hilarious, you have to admit it. It all sounds like an ego trip- "we shouldn't let these monkeys play with tools, they might hurt themselves! Good thing we, the Illuminati, can do any trick imaginable and control the tricking universe by pulling strings from behind our cloak of secrecy!"

I mean, come on now. Yeah, don't even think of letting people try things that give them the potential to get hurt. Such as doing double backflips on concrete, for example :tongue:

[Kyukodo Gaz]

HAHA You know... there was another community of people that didn't care that their idol destroyed their heritage, twisted the truth to gain recognition and tried to redefine its own operating paramaters for greater success... they were called NAZI'S!!!

PS Thanks for correcting my spelling, God knows that had you not pointed that out my argument would've been completely null and void [it's always a good sign when people take the last resort when they can't actually find a substantial reply ^^]

For fucks sake. Thank you for completely reducing my respect for you to zero. The nazi argument is thrown by every loony lefty when they sense anything that establishes some sort of order or categorisation. I have to remind you that politics in this case is a wasted argument as none of the people upon this board are tied to a particular belief or construct. The board is the only structure they operate by, and that is completely free and offers no censorship whatsoever. They choose what they want to believe and accept. Free will is a beautiful thing. Insults, and needless flaming, is not.

If you don't like what he does, that's fine. I've already said you should ignore it. If you want to criticise, do so like everyone else here. All you need to do is voice that you think some of the things he says are incorrect and state you don't believe him. You will gain much more respect that way. If you want to fight something you don't like, don't go shouting from the rooftops, waving placards, burning bras etc. It doesn't work. It just turns people against you. Do it with intelligent argument and a slightly less insulting tone.

If you don't like what he says, at least respect the help he gives people on these boards. That in itself, is invaluable.

Posts like yours however, are ten-a-penny.

PS. If you are gonna flame needlessly, then expect some of your own medicine (in reference to spelling correction).

[Scott]

Ah, well I think he was refering there to the X amount of super secret stuff no-one has ever done but he wont release to "protect us" (like triplefulltwistdoublebacks havnt been in gym vids on national TV for decades, even if it WAS true...)

I have sung notes that noone else can even conceive of. Just because it's not shown on TV doesn't mean that it hasn't been done. For example, I can hit C12. I just can't even show you monkeys, because it would damage your hearing. It's for your own good, I promise.

[Kyukodo Gaz]

Ah guys. I'm not disputing anything you are saying. We all know a lot of the stuff is a little 'fishy.' But hey, Sessh helps out everyone on here, and does so of his own accord. Who cares how he got here?!

He's proved people wrong before and may do again (he also may not :smile:). I just don't like the awful disrespect, that's all.

[Scott]

The thing is, a lot of us manage to help people out without the ego trip. I'm sure he's a very nice guy in person, but over the internet so many things that he says are verbal masturbation. If I put together an arbitrary classification of tricking, I wouldn't put "I stayed up for 57 hours without sleep making this" or "REMEMBER, I already know how to do all of this *stroke stroke* so you guys better read it!" or "Yeah, us [elite] tricksters wouldn't want to give you worthless n00bz0rz any ideas, you might hurt yourself! Now watch me KO your grandma with my dub boxcutter!"

[Kyukodo Gaz]

Nice compilation!

I know that. It's great that you do, but it takes all sorts doesn't it? Not everyone is the same. There are bound to be some that stand out from the crowd (for positive and negative reasons). Look, why do we not just ignore the stuff we don't like and take what we do. I would personally rather have Sessh on these boards than not.

[sesshoumaru]

You are without doubt the amalgamation of absolutely every reason I hate the tricking community today. You promote categorising tricks by difficulty as if your level of difficulty for a certain move is obviously going to be exactly the same as everyone else [how fucking retarded!] Your so desperate to get people to say "wow your amazing" that you actually try to rename tricks to make your lazy ass attempts get more recognition I'm talking specifically here about the raping of the suicide swipe... you CANNOT just do a bad sideswipe and try to change the definition of tricks to accomodate your abilities... if you can't do a move then TOUGH SHIT get practicing until you can... don't try to redefine tricks to suit your own standard you lazy son of a bitch, you make me so angry, I wanna beat the fucking ugly out of you! [which will take a damn long time i'm sure]

You're an ego-centric, arogant prick with a wholly unfounded messiah complex! I don't know what level your 'actual' tricking skill is and frankly I couldn't care less. [note: by 'actual' im talking about whatever moves you may have actually accomplished, not the bullshit ones you lie about to gain recognition.]

You remind me of a guy I work with who likes to lie about having sex with girls to gain the respect of his piers... he is full of confidence when there are none to be seen, but as soon as theres a girl in sight he's the quietest person you've ever seen! The guy watches so much sci-fi that he is in actual fact convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that aliens built pyramids and claims to have irrefutable evidence, which begs the question as to why he's still working with me and not a multi millionaire huh ^^ [In short, he's a liar, plain and simple... and so are you.]

What with your super mega secret ninja clan training and heritage and your 'safety' precautions since you've become 'available to the community', I think it's entirely possible that i've never before heard of someone so utterly full of poppy cock! If any person ever did have that kind of background then they'd never be so shallow and for want of a better [and more offensive] word unprofessional enough to be plastering it all over the community. I fucking hope to God that anyone on here who says they believe you is just humouring you otherwise I'd say the community is more full of retards than I could possibly have imagined.

I've met plenty of people like you who don't get the attention of their piers because they're either boring or retarded [I'm sure either could be applied to you] so they make up ridiculous stories to gain that attention...

My advice to you... use your little lego legs to hobble on down to your local library or video store and try thinking up some more feesible bullshit [perhaps how in actual fact you invented tricks 200 years ago when you witnessed a great kryptonian warrior fall off a cliff and do a thousand twists before landing upright]

...Jackass!

Im sorry you feel that way :eh:

The thing is, a lot of us manage to help people out without the ego trip. I'm sure he's a very nice guy in person, but over the internet so many things that he says are verbal masturbation. If I put together an arbitrary classification of tricking, I wouldn't put "I stayed up for 57 hours without sleep making this" or "REMEMBER, I already know how to do all of this *stroke stroke* so you guys better read it!" or "Yeah, us [elite] tricksters wouldn't want to give you worthless n00bz0rz any ideas, you might hurt yourself! Now watch me KO your grandma with my dub boxcutter!"

I stayed up very late doing T10X...if you don't like it don't read it. Also, I didn't make it for myself...it was for the people new to tricking. If everyone hated it and only one person liked it, I'd still feel as if it wasn't a waste of time.

I didn't say "elite" [suggesting trickers with crazy tricks], I said "higher-ups" [meaning a group of people that I respect]...I also didn't say anything about anybody being "worthless" and I've never down talked any body on this thread except for Joe Eigo, so don't even try to take it there...

[8-BIT Josh The Man Mod]

I'm not sure of how many of you have met Sessh, but I can honestly say that upon meeting him last year, he is truly one of the most humble tricksters out there. I distinctly remember him helping out the most "noob" trickster at the TXT gathering, not once talking down to them, but rather helping and encouraging. You can base your perceptions of him on a couple of posts without ever talking to the guy, but that won't tell you much about him.

[Scott]

The world may never know...

In all honesty, there is a secret agreement to what we [the so-called "elitist"] release. There are alot of tricks that don't do when we trick with "outsiders", because we don't want it released to the public :wicked:

Yes, you did say "elite". I have nothing against your T10x stuff, I think it's probably very helpful to people who are just starting out tricking. I'm sure you're a nice guy and all, but over the internet a lot of things you say sound very smug. For example, saying
All I can do is lead you to a level of consciousness that allows my existance to be possible
in my eyes implies condescension- it's like saying "You are not capable of thinking on the same transcendental level as me". As I've said, I'm sure that in real life you'd be a very easy guy to get along with.
The implication that you guys would "let" tricksters hear about new tricks is what really gets me. It's as if saying "DOUBLE GAINER" would suddenly kill people, like John Petrucci's solos. Anyone who would be even capable of trying a double gainer would already have a good concept of their abilities and limits. You couldn't just take someone who has been only tricking for a week and go "HAY LETZ DO A DOUBLE GIANR!" and expect them to even come close enough to injure themselves. Another example would be a double wallflip. Or a double sideflip full-out. It's not as if showing people new moves suddenly increases their ability enough to let them try insanely hard moves. Someone who learned to backflip 3 days ago and has no aerial awareness will not go "hrm I suppose today I shall try to do a quad back off my roof, landing in splits on broken glass"

Do you see what I'm saying?

[Reim]

I see what Scott is saying, and although out of what respect I do have for Sessh, wouldnt put it so harsh. But Scott does have points.

And Its nice to hear from TrickyHicky.

[Ashtar]

Hey man I think you're the messiah, but can you share Rin?

[sesshoumaru]

The world may never know...

In all honesty, there is a secret agreement to what we [the so-called "elitist"] release. There are alot of tricks that don't do when we trick with "outsiders", because we don't want it released to the public :wicked:

As you can clearly see, I put "so-called" before "elitist". I did this because regardless of what or who I would have mentioned, sombody would have came along and went, "Awww Sessh is being all elitist". On top of that, I despise terms that's not accepted by both groups [the term elitist that many people like to throw around the forum is a very shallow one]. This is why I interject "higher-ups"...

All I can do is lead you to a level of consciousness that allows my existance to be possible...

You completely misunderstood this post...search: Rashomon

[brandonn]

it's really fucking cool to know that there is a LOT of stuff I haven't even thought of/seen before that people can do.

[Scott]

As you can clearly see, I put "so-called" before "elitist". I did this because regardless of what or who I would have mentioned, sombody would have came along and went, "Awww Sessh is being all elitist". On top of that, I despise terms that's not accepted by both groups [the term elitist that many people like to throw around the forum is a very shallow one]. This is why I interject "higher-ups"...



You completely misunderstood this post...search: Rashomon

Ahh. Misunderstood. As for Rashomon...I got a movie about a dispute between a man and his wife, and a psychic who tells a third, different story.

[DarkXacreD]

You are without doubt the amalgamation of absolutely every reason I hate the tricking community today. You promote categorising tricks by difficulty as if your level of difficulty for a certain move is obviously going to be exactly the same as everyone else [how fucking retarded!] Your so desperate to get people to say "wow your amazing" that you actually try to rename tricks to make your lazy ass attempts get more recognition I'm talking specifically here about the raping of the suicide swipe... you CANNOT just do a bad sideswipe and try to change the definition of tricks to accomodate your abilities... if you can't do a move then TOUGH SHIT get practicing until you can... don't try to redefine tricks to suit your own standard you lazy son of a bitch, you make me so angry, I wanna beat the fucking ugly out of you! [which will take a damn long time i'm sure]

You're an ego-centric, arogant prick with a wholly unfounded messiah complex! I don't know what level your 'actual' tricking skill is and frankly I couldn't care less. [note: by 'actual' im talking about whatever moves you may have actually accomplished, not the bullshit ones you lie about to gain recognition.]

You remind me of a guy I work with who likes to lie about having sex with girls to gain the respect of his piers... he is full of confidence when there are none to be seen, but as soon as theres a girl in sight he's the quietest person you've ever seen! The guy watches so much sci-fi that he is in actual fact convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that aliens built pyramids and claims to have irrefutable evidence, which begs the question as to why he's still working with me and not a multi millionaire huh ^^ [In short, he's a liar, plain and simple... and so are you.]

What with your super mega secret ninja clan training and heritage and your 'safety' precautions since you've become 'available to the community', I think it's entirely possible that i've never before heard of someone so utterly full of poppy cock! If any person ever did have that kind of background then they'd never be so shallow and for want of a better [and more offensive] word unprofessional enough to be plastering it all over the community. I fucking hope to God that anyone on here who says they believe you is just humouring you otherwise I'd say the community is more full of retards than I could possibly have imagined.

I've met plenty of people like you who don't get the attention of their piers because they're either boring or retarded [I'm sure either could be applied to you] so they make up ridiculous stories to gain that attention...

My advice to you... use your little lego legs to hobble on down to your local library or video store and try thinking up some more feesible bullshit [perhaps how in actual fact you invented tricks 200 years ago when you witnessed a great kryptonian warrior fall off a cliff and do a thousand twists before landing upright]

...Jackass!

Yo, make like a tree, and chill the fuck out. Go out and invent your own tricks.

[Reim]

Yo, make like a tree, and chill the fuck out. Go out and invent your own tricks.

Try to understand where he is coming from. He does make several points.

[DarkXacreD]

he could have done so without being completely neurotic

[Reim]

he could have done so without being completely neurotic

No, he really couldnt of. He actually cares.

[Dave]

Reim, I discredit his points as the manner in which he went about it was extraordinarily uncalled for and clearly an anger filled post. Priority (in my opinion) was put on outlaying his current feelings of anger and jealousy rather than putting his accusations or opinion out for others to think about/respond to...

If we extract this paragraph from TrickyHickyX:

You remind me of a guy I work with who likes to lie about having sex with girls to gain the respect of his piers... he is full of confidence when there are none to be seen, but as soon as theres a girl in sight he's the quietest person you've ever seen! The guy watches so much sci-fi that he is in actual fact convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that aliens built pyramids and claims to have irrefutable evidence, which begs the question as to why he's still working with me and not a multi millionaire huh ^^ [In short, he's a liar, plain and simple... and so are you.]

I cannot be bothered completely analysing this but I will make an important point.

"The guy watches so much sci-fi that he is in actual fact convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that aliens built pyramids and claims to have irrefutable evidence"

Your friend makes claims without any evidence (or with mislead evidence) to back them up. You are disgusted by this. You make claims about sesshoumaru without any evidence (or with mislead evidence) to back them up. I am disgusted by this.

[In short, he's a liar, plain and simple... and so are you.]

You use your own example of a friend of yours, (which could be a complete fabrication itself) to prove that someone else is a liar. This seems childish and a very basic level of problem solving to attempt to justify to yourself that the hate you feel towards one man (your friend) can be easily transferred to another (sesshoumaru).

I'd say it would be a fair assumption to interpret your example as (in it's most simple form) trying to put across that he(sessh) can talk the talk but can't walk the walk.

Sessh has walked the walk... He may not have showed us every single significant accomplishment he has made in tricking/life via video but we have seen enough of him to know he is an impressive athlete.

His talking also is always polite and in a manner which you can't really take offense to. He outlines peoples faults with specific moves and tells them how to correct them without being insulting about it. Intelligence and structure is another attribute you will find when Sesshoumaru is putting forward a thought, idea or giving advise.

He has both the ability to walk and talk very well and thus has earned mine, as well as a lot of other trickers on this forums' respect.

[FatTricks]

You guys are thinking wayyyyyyy to hard about this. Who cares?
Freedom of speech. Sessh is right to say what he wants, as are you TrickyRicky. Everyone has an opinion.

Opinions are like assholes. Everyody has one, and they all stink!

But seriously- to get sooo worked up?

Just go outside and trick.


























Here's an idea.....Sessh and Tricky should battle! The winner will OBVIOUSLY be right. Yeah I'll side with the winner.

[Dave]

FatTricks there is nothing wrong with wanting to increase ones intelligence. I find a good way of trying to progress as a person is doing things like this. You can gain a lot from it, if you want to...

[TartanPajamas]

I think hiding tricks from the community is complete and utter bullshit. As if seeing those Brazillians attempt to swing outof a double cork on concrete isn't as dangerous, if not more dangerous, than ANYTHING you guys are doing! However, I still hold a great deal of respect for you, Sessh.

TrickyHicky, nice left leg 540, is that your dominant side? I've always wondered.

Right, back to the point: You stated in your post that you don't know Sessh's level of skill. Why didn't you do your research?

[Rook]

I don't know what level your 'actual' tricking skill is and frankly I couldn't care less.

The thing with sessh is that, whatever level tricking he claims to have accomplished - i.e. that for which he has yet to provide proof, for one reason or another, he's still pretty fucking good and probably the best trickster on the forum. If you see ANY of his samplers, sessh displays unprecedented levels of inventiveness in combos, height, power, and accuracy in individual tricks, and general competence in the tricking arena.

You can try to dispute what he says, but he's allowed to spout bullshit. If you watch him trick, you can just about appreciate the fact that yeah, maybe he has landed enough tricks to warrant creating/trying new ones.

As for the double gainer and "unreleased tricks", I'm saying nada until I see videos.

[jan]

Poppy Cock!




... With Capital Letters Too!



edit: Sessh is a great trickster. That's blatantly obvious. (*stroke stroke*) It's not proof enough of him being able to do all kinds of shit without showing vids to back it up though.

I.e: The fact that I can do aerial doubleswitch and that I'm THIS close to axe aerialdoubleswitch, does not mean that I can aerial tripleswitch, nor that I have the ability to do one. I can aerial doubleswitch a lot easier than I can 540twist (corkscrew), even though it's A LEVEL ... I dunno... D move, or something, while corkscrew is a bunch of levels below (which is partly why I think the levelling system is utter shite and nonsense). Doing an aerialdoubleswitch easily does NOT = being able to aerial tripleswitch though.

Can you see what I'm talking about? He might be able to 720twist-hook-hyper720-doubleleg-fulltwist, maybe even easily. That does NOT mean he's got the skill to do a 1080twist-hook-hyper1080-doublelegtwist-doublefull though, to put it into the extreme.

This is why I think his "my tricks ultimatums are too dangerous for you" schtick is utter shite. He can't do them YET, because even though he really is good, he doesn't have the skill level to do harder combos than the ones he already can do... officially...(again: yet).

If you believe him, then my: all olympic level gymnasts must surely be able to do quad full triple backs. They just don't want to publish them, in case people try them and injure themselves. They clearly have the skill, as there are none better in the whole world than them.

And Sesshoumaru is not the best trickster in the world. He's been doing capoeira (which his tassles, ginga or whatever and tricking style in general clearly shows), and there are capoeiristas 10x as good as him. Same goes for all gymnast tricksters on this forum: They're possibly the best flippers around, but there are people 10x better than them. Don't you think the Korean Tigers kick the asses of great tricksters, such as Ben Brown etc? He's got insanely nice kicks, and his tricks are fast and powerful, but from what I've seen of the Korean Tigers, they pwn him.

[Dragonic MiKe]

I think maybe what sessh is trying to do by suggesting he can do insane moves is trying to catalyze the genesis of insane moves.

i.e. Not so much protecting people from higher level moves as encouraging people to push the boundaries.

Shhhhh, Jan. You're ruining his plan.

[TKD_Lee]

It's a safty measure to prevent aspiring trickers from trying things that's beyond their capabilities. Some people just wanna be "the man" just cause, and we recognize that. As leaders [sort to speak], it's our responsibility to do what we can to keep trickers advancing safely. A Dub Gainer would be too inticing for people to leave alone, and some bloke is gonna have a go at it for kicks...and end up killing himself.

Instead...we wait until the community as a whole has progressed to certain level of understanding and physical capability. Then we release more stuff :smile:

As a whole, no community will progress to a certain level because no community grows together as one unit when speaking of something as vast as the tricking community. There are always newcomers who can't land backflips coming up.

[alpha7158]

If you believe him, then my: all olympic level gymnasts must surely be able to do quad full triple backs. They just don't want to publish them, in case people try them and injure themselves. They clearly have the skill, as there are none better in the whole world than them.


I was speaking to Damien Walters about the British Championships for tumbling yesterday when I went to the gym (Which he won; he is also currently 4th in the world). After watching his routine I asked him if he could do triple backs (because he didn't do any in his routine); He told me that he could but that the extra points that you get from the move aren't worth the risk of executing the move in competition; he said "Its a fucking hard move", consequently he doesn't practice them often because he isn't going to use it in competition and because the risk of injury is high.

Maybe it is possible that the same circumstances apply to other gymnasts; the footage of Olympic gymnasts that is in the public eye have been from Olympic competition where they aren't going to take the risk. Also the same applies for in training, these world class gymnasts are going to risk practicing insane moves even in training when they aren't going to use them in competition.

edit: this isn't against your argument against sess, I just don't think that analogy is very good.

[kinetic]

Geez leave the guy alone..

[TKD_Andy]

Poppy Cock!




... With Capital Letters Too!



edit: Sessh is a great trickster. That's blatantly obvious. (*stroke stroke*) It's not proof enough of him being able to do all kinds of shit without showing vids to back it up though.

I.e: The fact that I can do aerial doubleswitch and that I'm THIS close to axe aerialdoubleswitch, does not mean that I can aerial tripleswitch, nor that I have the ability to do one. I can aerial doubleswitch a lot easier than I can 540twist (corkscrew), even though it's A LEVEL ... I dunno... D move, or something, while corkscrew is a bunch of levels below (which is partly why I think the levelling system is utter shite and nonsense). Doing an aerialdoubleswitch easily does NOT = being able to aerial tripleswitch though.

Can you see what I'm talking about? He might be able to 720twist-hook-hyper720-doubleleg-fulltwist, maybe even easily. That does NOT mean he's got the skill to do a 1080twist-hook-hyper1080-doublelegtwist-doublefull though, to put it into the extreme.

This is why I think his "my tricks ultimatums are too dangerous for you" schtick is utter shite. He can't do them YET, because even though he really is good, he doesn't have the skill level to do harder combos than the ones he already can do... officially...(again: yet).

If you believe him, then my: all olympic level gymnasts must surely be able to do quad full triple backs. They just don't want to publish them, in case people try them and injure themselves. They clearly have the skill, as there are none better in the whole world than them.

And Sesshoumaru is not the best trickster in the world. He's been doing capoeira (which his tassles, ginga or whatever and tricking style in general clearly shows), and there are capoeiristas 10x as good as him. Same goes for all gymnast tricksters on this forum: They're possibly the best flippers around, but there are people 10x better than them. Don't you think the Korean Tigers kick the asses of great tricksters, such as Ben Brown etc? He's got insanely nice kicks, and his tricks are fast and powerful, but from what I've seen of the Korean Tigers, they pwn him.

i agree with everything jan is saying. Sessh isnt superhuman!


Sessh might be able to pull off some INSANE moves, but having a bajillion and one tricks doesnt mean theyre all 100% perfect. Look at his jacknife, then compare it to say ben browns. While Sessh has got the jacknife, then moved on to throwing... i dont know, a 1260 before it then throwing a doubletwist to flash kick after it, it doesnt look as good, or clean.

Yeah sure, i'd love to be able to pull off fucking crazy combos like that, but i'd like to be able to do individual moves flawlessly than just throw them to the degree i need to combo them.

I honestly dont care if people label me a 'sessh hater' or whatever, because its a load of bull. Sessh is a damn good tricker, but people should stop putting him up on this pedestal, because not only does that mean people start to believe word_for_word everything he says (and he's admitted he's slung some bull and people have believed it all) and the only way from that pedestal is down, and I dont want that to happen, and im sure nobody else does.

this debate is stupid anyway. Sessh is just another guy with alot of skill... people forget he's just a guy like everyone else.

[TKD_Andy]

TrickyRicky. .

woah there... that wasnt trickyricky it was trickyHicky, trickyricky is a mellow guy from the UK haha

[shengoikee]

as much as i like ben brown and his tricks he's got seemingly very different (and weird) ideas about tricking in comparison to the rest of the community. i know you were just using him as an example of "clean technique, less tricks" just then though. :good:

i know people kiss his ass and that can be cringeworthy, but i dont think people should give sessh a hard time. seems some people do that. yeah he's a guy just like the rest of us but he's shared things with the community that he's put a lot of time into so the least people can do is give him a polite and well thought out response (not pointing fingers).

i like sessh and i think he deserves at least the respect he's earnt. he's not obliged to give you every piece of information about himself that's ever existed and i think that's partly why he posts some things he does haha.

[TKD_Andy]

i completely, sessh does deserve the respect that he's earned, but people shouldnt confuse this respect with a unquestionable acceptance of anything he says.

[shengoikee]

haha yeah obviously true :good:

"with a pinch of salt"

[Matt R]

lol only just saw this thread

id quite like to see these secret tricks haha

are they like mew in pokemon?

[Scott]

Let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya down by the campfire!
And then go on a murderous, Viking metal Berserker spree, doing gainerflash swingthru beheading peasants.

[Scott]

lol only just saw this thread

id quite like to see these secret tricks haha

are they like mew in pokemon?

No they're like MISSINGNO.
They fuck you up when you learn them!
That's a lie, people always said that but I never had trouble when I got my missingno....
:gay:

[Reim]

Right, back to the point: You stated in your post that you don't know Sessh's level of skill. Why didn't you do your research?

Why would he have to? Apparently None of the really good stuff is on film. Of all things to turn around and use against TH, why this? And you asked him which leg is his dominant. Why didn't you do your research?



I personally dont believe alot of the stuff Sessh is spewing, about his tricks, and about his life. It's not something I have to deal with, but I choose to take part in these "discussions". Sessh is incredibly helpful in alot of aspects he's trying to put out there, but in all honesty I feel so lucky that Im not coming into tricks now, because coming in and seeing all this classification and what not that Sessh is putting out there would kill it all for me. And Im sure enough of you know how much I love tricking and why, the tricking Sessh is trying to convey is not the tricking I love, that kind of tears me.

But with Sessh's status, alot of things he says becomes law. He's just been put so up there, that the praise he does deserve gets amplified to a point where it's just ridiculous, and the negativity towards him aswell.

The thing is this, if Sessh was any one else, this wouldn't fly. It didn't fly with Joe Eigo, it didn't fly with any other person remotely trying to accomplish anything similar to what Sessh is. If Sessh was not tricking at the level he is today, there would be no question about his past, his accomplishments or what he was doing. The comments on his posts and threads would be completely different, and alot of these things would not fly. If Scott or Jan were to come out with a classification of tricks, the community would come out and out right say it: "Who are you to fuck with our art? This is not what tricking is about and this is not in the spirit of tricks and does not benefit us in any way, please shut the fuck up". But since this is Sessh and he did come in and "revive" tricking as a great and mind blowing trickster and cloaks his (shall I dare say) Propaganda in these guides and articles people mistake this as something good and positive for tricks.

Anyways I have no point. Sessh, you've insulted me before, and I was very hurt by it. But I do believe you're a nice guy, and someone that a lowly trickster like me could respect, but I think you don't understand how things work, or should work, and you're getting away with turning this community into something you're creating, not something we are all creating. Im asking to be selfish and please just let the community create art.

[shengoikee]

is it me or are you over-reacting reim? maybe im speaking for myself but i dont think tricksters (apart from n00bs with little knowledge) follow sessh's word as "law" and his documents as some sort of tricking bible.

IMO he hasnt really changed anything, more added things. so there's no real need to act like tricking has been utterly destroyed by this.

[Scott]

Ho ho, you're using his classification in your sig. NOOB! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB BBBBBBbbbbbb!!11

[TKD_Andy]

but in all honesty I feel so lucky that Im not coming into tricks now, because coming in and seeing all this classification and what not that Sessh is putting out there would kill it all for me. And Im sure enough of you know how much I love tricking and why, the tricking Sessh is trying to convey is not the tricking I love, that kind of tears me.

i cannot agree strongly enough with this. When i first started tricking, it was a completely NEW thing, there were no rules, nobody getting arsey over you doing 10 degrees less rotation than you should have, nobody arguing over the original capoeira translation of a move, nobody saying 'wow he pulls some mad class D tricks!' There were just people throwing themselves around trying to throw as many spins or as many kicks as possible without caring whether it was right or wrong.

Although the concept of the categorisation of tricks is useful, its trying to tame the beast that is tricking.


edit:

Dave, you and me have been round long enough to see how the tricking world/community has changed, to us sessh has just added to it, but if we were to look at it from the point of view that we didnt know anything about tricking before hand, i guarantee we'd see it in an entirely different way. Perhaps that helps with understanding Reims post :good:

[Reim]

is it me or are you over-reacting reim? maybe im speaking for myself but i dont think tricksters (apart from n00bs with little knowledge) follow sessh's word as "law" and his documents as some sort of tricking bible.

IMO he hasnt really changed anything, more added things. so there's no real need to act like tricking has been utterly destroyed by this.

Well, those n00bs are the people taht are supposed to grow become the new generation and continue what we're making. Its not going to be destroyed because of this, but it has the potential to be. It looks like im fraeking out about this because I do care about this and If I just make light of this, it wont change. I dont have the pwoer that Sessh has where he can say a few words and people go and take that and run with it.

And besides, Im not a "Class B trickster" Im Mother fucking Reim. I dont understand how someone can agree with what I've said about tricking then try to systemise tricks. But then again.. thats a little masturbation for me *stroke stroke*

[shengoikee]

Ho ho, you're using his classification in your sig. NOOB! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB BBBBBBbbbbbb!!11

LIKE WHOA! IM TOTALLY SERIOUS WITH IT LOL

*SEEEERIOUSSS*

but yeah im a n00b. who's obviously destroying this sport. hmm...

[Scott]

*stroke stroke*

[shengoikee]

to me people are just being over-sentimental. tricking has changed and it's not like these things in our signatures signify TRICKING ARMAGEDDON HOLY CRAP LOLZ

know what i mean? stop freaking out people haha

[TKD_Andy]

lol perhaps tricking doesnt mean as much to you as it does to other people dave...

and you're the only one saying about tricking armageddon etc haha

[Scott]

I was being sarcastic about the sig. I have moar tricks than you! Ho ho! NOOB

[shengoikee]

haha i thought you knew me well enough to know that isnt true

maybe people think im ignorant in my own way

edit: i strategically use my pokemon to defeat you scott :ogre: dark pokemon hoho!

[TKD_Andy]

n/m you missed the point of my post, no point explaining as its just more spam for this thread.

[shengoikee]

i dont actually think there will be a tricking armageddon hahaha! oh well

[TKD_Andy]

i meant you're exaggerating what reim and everyone else who doesnt believe exactly the same things as you has been saying, not anything specific!

reim just wants tricking to be like it used to be, without any rules or anything like sesh has introduced, not 'imposed' or anything. And i dont want any kind of new rules or anything, hence why i never got into any of the categorisation, and was suprised you did

[Reim]

lol perhaps tricking doesnt mean as much to you as it does to other people dave...

and you're the only one saying about tricking armageddon etc haha

This is true. You see.. I care about tricking.

[pete_man_man]

ban sessh!! lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shengoikee]

oh i def understand about people thinking sessh has introduced some sort of ruling system with this T101 (105 especially) but i think people often misunderstand em. i see both sides of the fence though of course.

i still have love for ya reim.(edit: and i care about tricking probly as much as you do)

iv decided to remove my pokemon thing.

[pete_man_man]

haha you could never bring yourself to do that dave!!! THE POKEMON THING LIVES ON MWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

it feels like a tear or two has been shed on this thread.. it's kind of depressing..

[Scott]

I don't care about tricking as much as either of you.

[Reim]

oh i def understand about people thinking sessh has introduced some sort of ruling system with this T101 (105 especially) but i think people often misunderstand em. i see both sides of the fence though of course.

i still have love for ya reim.(edit: and i care about tricking probly as much as you do)

iv decided to remove my pokemon thing.

I respect you, bro. Much love. When it all comes down to it, we're all tricksters, like a family. We all got ups and downs.


I realised something though. Maybe Sessh is just bored. If he's been doing what he's been doing for how long he says he's been doing it, he's probably just bored. And he wants to make things exciting, and change what he's been doing for so long, and now he has a stage to do so.

There has to be a difference between someone like Sessh apparently being born into this and having it already be his life, and someone like me, who found this and it became my life, by choice.

[TKD_Andy]

dont remove it becuase we're saying bad things about it! :sad:

*edit* haha that sounded really condescending :eh: it wasnt meant like that

[Rayzer]

is it me or are you over-reacting reim? maybe im speaking for myself but i dont think tricksters (apart from n00bs with little knowledge) follow sessh's word as "law" and his documents as some sort of tricking bible.

IMO he hasnt really changed anything, more added things. so there's no real need to act like tricking has been utterly destroyed by this.
I partially agree with you, but Reim has a point too. You see it with a lot of "High-up" people like Kjer, Joe Eigo, and Sesshoumaru: People blindly accept what they say and as soon as something negative is being said about them all the "sheeps" jump in to defend that person. (I personally experienced this on streettrickz.com forum btw...) That's why I greatly respect TKD_Andy, for he was one of the very few who dared to question Sesshoumaru's posts before this topic started. Nothing bad at all is meant here on Sessh's adress. The only point I'm trying to make is that Sessh is just a person like anyone else here, and noone knows everything, so not everything he says is 100% correct, but that's no different than with other peoples posts here.

Sesshoumaru helps out lots of people here on this forum and his skills are beyond believe, and for that I greatly respect him. The only ones I have some less respect for are the above mentioned "sheeps".

And shengoikee: The second part of your post is 100% true.

I've been following this discussion since it started, but really never wanted to get involved in it. Now that I did I do not want to pick a side, I'm neutral, just like Holland was during WWII.:smile:

In my opinion this discussion should end soon, because it devides the community and most of all; I don't think Sessh likes all this talking about him and we have to respect that. At least I wouldn't like it if people were discussing "me" like this...

[shengoikee]

I respect you, bro. Much love. When it all comes down to it, we're all tricksters, like a family. We all got ups and downs.


I realised something though. Maybe Sessh is just bored. If he's been doing what he's been doing for how long he says he's been doing it, he's probably just bored. And he wants to make things exciting, and change what he's been doing for so long, and now he has a stage to do so.

There has to be a difference between someone like Sessh apparently being born into this and having it already be his life, and someone like me, who found this and it became my life, by choice.

you may be right! haha

to me sessh seems like a nice guy who shows respect. i just wanted to encourage people to be more respectful if they do have negative feedback for him rather than jumping on anybody's bandwagon.

sometimes you cant help but think "GIVE THE GUY A BREAK! GARGH!"

but yah i like what you first said in that <3 haha. nicely put.

[TKD_Andy]

That's why I greatly respect TKD_Andy, for he was one of the very few who dared to question Sesshoumaru's posts before this topic started.

thanks man! But to be honest i was just saying what ALOT of people were thinking... i never really read the questions for sessh or whatever the thread was where he said stuff like he was part of teh sex uber secret ninja clan and his parents both work for nasa and he was brought up in japan but appears to be as texan as you like etc etc and i dont really have a problem with him saying that, i just didnt understand why everyone believed it so readily.

Dont forget Jan is also (sometimes quite harshly!) questioned sessh on some issues. But thats Jan for you :smile:


I just dont really have anything to lose, im not worried about people hating on me because after all... its the internet!

[jan]

Hahaha.

I agree with Reim. I started tricking in 2001, a year before Trickstutorials.com. Then I got injured a thousand times (broken ankle, broken rib, broken tailbone, broken toes, popped/tore/something my left hamstring so much I couldn't move my leg past hip level for quite literally a year, ruined my neck so much I couldn't move it to the sides... I still can't move it properly to the left etc...).
Because of this, I've had so many breaks from tricks, it's quite literally impossible for me to say how many years I've been tricking for. I have followed the community for a while though, and I know better than most people here how it's developed.

I started with vids of Kelly Magovern, Loopkicks (especially Chris D's Hyperswipe sampler), Yellwboy and Logan. It was absolutely awesome. Almost everyone was focused on getting their tricks clean, the 540-hook-aerial combo was in, people looked good and tricked as an attitude. Sure, doing an extra spin or kick seemed to be awesome, but my impression was that the attitude, style and cleanliness were more important. And tricks were martial arts based, for the most part. Even Anis and Team Cascade were martial artists, not twisters (I still remember Anis' 540twist/corkscrew from 2001, and his 720).

Nowadays, it's all about adding an extra twist, adding an extra flip, doing as long combos as humanly possible, not caring much for cleanliness or style. Wayyyyyyyy too many "elite tricksters/acrobats/karate performers" seem to be doing their stuff arrogantly, despite everyone else saying that "they're omg so humble IRL man". From what I heard, the American competitors were arses during French Open. They stayed with themselves, came on stage 10 minutes late constantly, had this arrogant attitude towards the Europeans... yeah... There haven't been a French Open for a couple of years now, and I was told by "insiders" that it was because the leader of it (Stephane or whatever) couldn't stand one more year like it.

... I'm rambling...

Bottom line: It seems as if too many people are letting their skill go to their heads, and when they're super-short and skinny and can't get laid IRL, they go online and make their dreams come true through tricking, resulting in (of course) extreme arrogance. After all, they're unused to attention.

It used to be about showing who you were, showing that you had fun and showing that you did your stuff with passion. Now it's all about classification, showing that you're the man, boasting and boosting your own ego, and licking the holy asses of those which are the "elites".

It used to be more "individuality", now it's all about following the leader and doing what everyone else is doing. (The cork schtick still hasn't let go. The cheat900 fad only lasted a while.)

[TKD_Andy]

RIGHT THIS IS MY FINAL POST!!!

haha my conclusion from aaaaaaaaaalll of this.

Show respect, show intelligence, show your point of view. :good:

*edit*

just so its also clear, i feel no animosity whatsoever to anyone on either side of this debate (i was going to say argument, but it just isnt) because its just a view on tricking as a whole. I love tricking because of the way i see it, free and wild *cue the 'dream on trick on sampler'* and i think everyone should take a step back and look at why they trick and seek to preserve it in their own individual way because thats what they love about it.

fuck man... im a soppy bastard!! haha i need to go wrestle a bear or something to make up for it

[shengoikee]

edit: yeah i agree with you andy! :good: just gonna read jan's post...
dont remove it becuase we're saying bad things about it! :sad:

*edit* haha that sounded really condescending :eh: it wasnt meant like that
haha it's ok. i just wanted to because i dont wanna be partially responsible for a trend people see so negatively.
I partially agree with you, but Reim has a point too. You see it with a lot of "High-up" people like Kjer, Joe Eigo, and Sesshoumaru: People blindly accept what they say and as soon as something negative is being said about them all the "sheeps" jump in to defend that person. (I personally experienced this on streettrickz.com forum btw...) That's why I greatly respect TKD_Andy, for he was one of the very few who dared to question Sesshoumaru's posts before this topic started. Nothing bad at all is meant here on Sessh's adress. The only point I'm trying to make is that Sessh is just a person like anyone else here, and noone knows everything, so not everything he says is 100% correct, but that's no different than with other peoples posts here.

Sesshoumaru helps out lots of people here on this forum and his skills are beyond believe, and for that I greatly respect him. The only ones I have some less respect for are the above mentioned "sheeps".

And shengoikee: The second part of your post is 100% true.

I've been following this discussion since it started, but really never wanted to get involved in it. Now that I did I do not want to pick a side, I'm neutral, just like Holland was during WWII.:smile:

In my opinion this discussion should end soon, because it devides the community and most of all; I don't think Sessh likes all this talking about him and we have to respect that. At least I wouldn't like it if people were discussing "me" like this...

you have the right idea dude! just tricking =)

[shengoikee]

yeeeah jan your post is so true! im in total agreement

[jan]

Well, that's my final word then:) As long as I've made someone at least see where I'm coming from, I'm satisfied.

[alpha7158]

I have re-read everything sesshoumaru has said in this thread and I have come to the conclusion that nothing he has said in it warrents the ear bashing he has recieved.

Jan, you have already expressed that you think sess has made up tricks that he can do and stories of his past, why keep bringing it up if he doesn't? I respect both you and Sesshoumaru. Jan, I can understand that you are venting frustration at people who say believe sess to be greater than what he is however in expressing yourself it reads like you are outright slating sesshoumaru. I know if I was in his shoes I would feel pritty picked on right now.

In the same way sess, sometimes the way you express yourself makes what you say sound unbelievable, its like you are describing an ancient legend. I admit that I question the integrety of a lot of what you say, partly because what you say seems to be ideal and partly because of the way you say it. It is because of this that you are getting the negativity. I guess you are already aware of this but I think it is important that I point out how I understand both sides of the argument.

Change of focus.... I would love to see a 720 doubleleg twist.

[TKD_Andy]

im not posting about the main topic anymore, i would have said this on MSN but you're not online andy:

i messaged sessh aaaaages ago asking if he'd done a move i'd just thought of that would be kinda like a 720dlegtwist or something.

You know when stephen renney does his cart-fulls with his legs piked? It looks like a dleg but with an extra bit of rotation at the start. My idea was to get into that double leg style position then gyro it, like a double leg twist.

Sessh said he'd already done it, now i REALLY want to see that!

[alpha7158]

im not posting about the main topic anymore, i would have said this on MSN but you're not online andy:

i messaged sessh aaaaages ago asking if he'd done a move i'd just thought of that would be kinda like a 720dlegtwist or something.

You know when stephen renney does his cart-fulls with his legs piked? It looks like a dleg but with an extra bit of rotation at the start. My idea was to get into that double leg style position then gyro it, like a double leg twist.

Sessh said he'd already done it, now i REALLY want to see that!

indeed it would look ace however in terms of difficulty; full in double leg gyro would sort of look like a anis' full xout full except with a double leg istead of an xout. 720 doubleleg gyro is upright and would be a lot harder.

[jan]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hywld4xFHiM&mode=related&search=

That's all I have to say.

[shengoikee]

hahaha!

[FatTricks]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hywld4xFHiM&mode=related&search=

That's all I have to say.

Brilliant!

[Matt R]

here why are some of you all crying like little girls?

tricking is gay

omgz! i just did a hypertwist-missleg-540!

hah thats not cool its pretty gay ha


why are you all getting sad because some guy came along and said this trick is harder than that one

n00bs lol

[Reim]

Alright well, then Im done with this thread.

[ben brown]

i agree with everyone on different things.........

jan -
i agree with you completely on most of what you have said. especially concerning "tricking" today, and the so-called "martial artists" and their ego involved in it (mostly coming from the states). its very sad. one only has to visit a handful of "myspace" pages to wonder where the hell a lot of these people get off. if one didn't know any better, one would think that some of these people taught brad pitt what cool was all about........ as if the red carpet should be rolled out for them when they walk into the gym to "train". however, there are some things that i think involve shades of grey. for instance, many of the things that people are talking about here are all in the eye of the beholder. the definition of good, great, and perfect vary greatly from person to person. i will use myself to illustrate my point. you brought up the korean tigers and them having better kicks than me. for people who are drawn to the wtf style, they would probably agree with you, and i agree that what they do is impressive in that they display great force and accuracy. however, from a technical aspect i feel the korean tigers kicking techniques are a nightmare. the way they execute their kicking techniques are totally contrary to what i understand to be correct technique. my point is that most things change depending on what perspective you are seeing it from.

dave aka shengoikee!!!!-
when am i going to see a new sampler!!! my question to you is not intended to sound aggressive, please dont take what i am saying in that way. i am so confused by the constant "ben brown is weird because of the way he thinks comments". since you and i are on friendly terms and have talked before i am asking you to do me a favor and explain how my thoughts are weird. did i ever say that i have knocked some guy out with a 540? have i ever said that i WILL knock some guy out with a 540? have i ever said that i intend to use a 540 in a fight? if you can give me an example of what i have said in the past that sounds extreme then please let me know so that i can clarify my words. there are two things i have said in the past (which i still stand firm on) those are: who the hell is anyone to tell me that i "CANT" do a certain technique in a fight or otherwise. if you are able and competent in a technique then why cant you do it at any time? because people say so? because god says i cant? how easy is a 540 for you dave? literally as easy as breathing air right? so if it is that easy for you why are there restrictions on when, how, or why you should do it? i have a huge problem with people telling me what i can and cannot do......... maybe thats part of it. i never said that i would do a 540 in a fight......... my point is (and always has been) that its not impossible. how is saying that anything is possible in a fight crazy!?!? the other thing i have said in the past is that i dont practice a lot of the "tricks". the reason for this is because they negate a lot of things i have been taught regarding correct technique. i dont practice certain techniques because they require me to practice what i understand to be incorrect technique. to say that this is not an uncommon way of thinking is an understatement. most athletes will never do anything that will compromise or conflict with the fundamental aspects of what they do........ so why should i?? again, please help me to understand how either one of these two thoughts are that extreme, outlandish, or weird.

reim -

as this post is already very long i will keep this short......... you're beautiful. =)

tkd_andy-
again, this post being long i will leave it at this...... i love you. =)

matt r -
i want to come to scotland........ can i stay at your house!!!

i dont know anymore......... thats what i do know. i think most of this conflict has and always will come from a martial art line of thinking (martial artists) and a sport line of thinking (tricking, free running ect.). it is very hard for both sides to understand each other because they have never walked in each others shoes. i think as long as everyone keeps in mind that people have their reasons for doing things there will be a level of respect. as long as there is a level of respect, the animosity level will go down. or, we can just agree to meet, strap on some sparring gear and hash it out!!! i say screw the sparring gear though........ why? because under my name it says tyler durden baby!!!!!! =)

[Reim]

reim -

as this post is already very long i will keep this short......... you're beautiful. =)
I <3 You, Mr. Brown

[shengoikee]

dave aka shengoikee!!!!-
when am i going to see a new sampler!!! my question to you is not intended to sound aggressive, please dont take what i am saying in that way. i am so confused by the constant "ben brown is weird because of the way he thinks comments". since you and i are on friendly terms and have talked before i am asking you to to me a favor and explain how my thoughts are weird. did i ever say that i have knocked some guy out with a 540? have i ever said that i WILL knock some guy out with a 540? have i ever said that i intend to use a 540 in a fight? if you can give me an example of what i have said in the past that sounds extreme then please let me know so that i can clarify my words. there are two things i have said in the past (which i still stand firm on) those are: who the hell is anyone to tell me that i "CANT" do a certain technique in a fight or otherwise. if you a able and competent in a technique than why cant you do it at any time? because people say so? because god says i cant? how easy is a 540 for you dave? literally as easy as breathing air right? so if it is that easy for you why are there restrictions on when, how, or why you should do it? i have a huge problem with people telling me what i can and cannot do......... maybe thats part of it. i never said that i would do a 540 in a fight......... my point is (and always has been) that its not impossible. how is saying that anything is possible in a fight crazy!?!? the other thing i have said in the past is that i dont practice a lot of the "tricks". the reason for this is because they negate a lot of things i have been taught regarding correct technique. i dont practice certain techniques because they require me to practice what i understand to be incorrect technique. to say that this is not an uncommon way of thinking is an understatement. most athletes will never do anything that will compromise or conflict with the fundamental aspects of what they do........ so why should i?? again, please help me to understand how either one of these two thoughts are that extreme, outlandish, or weird.

yo ben! i may of sounded a lil negative about you man, didnt really mean it to sound that way. "weird" is a negative word and i was looking for something that simply describes you as having differing views to the majority of tricksters, so it was in reference to the community in general. ill explain what i meant:

you mention in your DVD about basically just tricking with a martial mindset. this is great in a way because i know a lot of people neglect to apply themselves properly to kicking techniques and the like! but then again you go on to say people should consider themselves "martial artists" and not "tricksters" as well as dismissing adding rotations or "unecessary" height. it seems you think seperately to many who like to "step things up" with big moves (many rotations, lots of "unecessary" things like crazy height), settling more for application of these techniques and clean form. your appreciation of tricking seems to me as something that should literally be deadly! i gotta admit i love ya for it man hahaha. but what i meant by saying that is that many out there (myself included to an extent) would rather see "tricking" become more self-accepting in a way. ill keep this brief but when gary ip did his 1440 my jaw dropped. stuff like that is amazing to me as it is to most other trickster! you just struck me as being less appreciating of this kinda thing, as if flashyness and clean technique cant easily go hand in hand. im one of those that likes to think it can (not that gary could KO someone after 4 spins haha)

you kick ass ben. lemme know if im completely wrong or being an idiot! haha

[TKD_Andy]

thanks ben! im very tempted to go all fanboy and put that in my sig =]

it means alot though hearing this from you. You've always been an inspiration for perfection and power of technique for me above all others :good:

[ben brown]

reim -
back to you my friend, back to you.

dave -
no, i understand completely. and i respect your thoughts very much....... thats why i asked. i completely respect the difficulty of flashy techniques and understand why other people do as well because....... well, they should! its just that i personally dont feel i have the time to refine a technique like a 1440.........because i have so many other techniques that i have to refine i dont know if i will live long enough to do it....... but i'm trying. its not that i dont condone flashy techniques or look down on people who practice them but those kinds of techniques dont apply to what my ambitions are in the martial arts. i think it comes down to the martial arts line of thinking and the sport line of thinking again..... they are just different viewpoints with different goals. at any rate, thank you very much for your thoughts because i wanted to try to better understand where some people are coming from. thanks again man!!

tkd andy-
hahahhaa!! people are cooler in the uk.......... i'm moving. see you when i get there andy and dave and everyone else!!

[shengoikee]

you're welcome to trick it up with us any time ben! anyyy time

and that's really weird, i just read fight club hahaha

[Locke]

I agree very very much with most of Reim and Jan's posts in this thread. Honestly, my personal view here, is that people are too extreme in both ways. To me tricks are not a martial art, they are BASED in martial arts, and should use martial art techinque as a guideline, but ultiamtely they serve NO purpose other than fun, creativity, etcetc, tricks are simply and purely to look good and feel cool and have fun, it doesnt go further for me.

BUT: I think people take that as an excuse to let technique slide *WAY* too much, because you trick for fun doesnt at all mean you shouldnt aim for cleanliness, great technique, perfect jacknives etc, because... if everyone takes the view that "tricks are just for throwing yourself around, fuck rules and techniques, I'll do what I want" - thats ok to a point but... it makes the entire sport worthless, not because it's not fun, even if you do that it's fun, but how can you judge it, how can you aspire to better yourself, what's to aim for? etcetc

It should be a mix, people shouldnt be so carefree as to go crazy when someone tells them "that move was unclean", and give "chill out its not a science" as an answer or whatever, but I don't like going as far as to say "Tricks is a martial art like any other and should be treated as such, you should only train tricks which could *theoretically* have an application in fights, and follow basic guidelines for martial art techniques (i.e have evasive, offensive etcetc properties)" - thats going too far because, no matter how you try you can't mix something so already outside what is accepted in martial arts as traditional fighting techniques, sure you CAN possibly do a 540 in a fight, you can possibly do ANYTHING in a fight, but basing what tricks you will learn based on that logic is totally missing the point of tricks to start with. I know how that sounds, like "who the hell can tell me my theory of tricks doesnt work, I'm a martial artist, I extended my martial arts into the realm of tricks and for me thats what it is, an extention" which is where I guess you're coming from (talking to Ben here), and.. of course I really understand that view, I just think it doesnt have anything to do with "the sport of tricks" as it stands, as its own entity, that's just "incorporating tricks into martial arts"

So yes tricks should have no boundaries, but people should still have enough pride in what they do and self-control to aim for good technique in whatever they do.

Trick classification schemes are ok to a point, I liked being sure what move was what, but thats literally impossible to get anymore, I have my views on what a suicideswipe is, so does everyone else, names change, there's always 2/3 ideas on what defines each move etc so... I dont think anything can ever be done about that, and there is always room for debate. Classifying tricks in order of skill... is never going to work, quite obviously as so many people said because different people find different things easy, and I dont see what the point is anyway, it seems like just a way for some people to feel self important and post in their sigs "oh I can do 78% of CLASS F TRICKS", or whatever, I honestly dont think I can even stand to WATCH this community if it really takes on that scheme as the standard way of classing tricks.

As for the idea of a secret pact between "top trickers", whereby they agree to not release footage of their most incredible moves because it would be dangerous to the community, and as "leaders they have a responcibility to guide the community to safely progress" and blabla.... come on... I mean... honestly I dont even want to talk about it, what an ego trip, that's just condescending and stupid beyond words... you can bash me all you want but I dont even want to dignify that with an argument, I'd feel stupid having to prove why THAT was a stupid thing for anyone to say.

BTW I'm tired as hell so... blah sloppy writing

[Kyukodo Gaz]

To be honest, I really like the way this discussion has evolved. I also think it kinda says what I said at the beginning, which is question all you want, just be civil about it. If we are civil, polite, and don't bash needlessly, then what is the problem in questioning Sessh? He has said he doesn't mind. It's the harshness and nastiness that comes out in some posts that even I find insulting that worries me slightly.

As for the tricks clasification thing, I do use it sometimes. In fact, I find it downright useful sometimes. Other times, I completely ignore it. If you are pursuing your own style (Jan = aerial double switch because he is the God of aerial techniques) then it is only right that he finds other techniques out of his 'comfort genre' difficult (like a cork for example).

I do however, find this argument slightly spurious... If we all worked on our basics and tried to progress along similar lines in all genres, instead of finding moves we were comfortable with and climbing that particular ladder, then style would be defined through combination, rather than single move execution. I personally believe that the combo is the biggest and most stylistic area of our art, and anything which drives this art makes for a positive move in my book (I know it's not the same for others). I know there will always be areas we find easier than others, and who says we should all be balanced trickers..? No one. The documents which Sessh has created do not in any way control our use of them. If noobs decide they want to start using the classification thing, that's fine by me. They will grow out of it I think (much like trick lists). we will all find our own way if we really stick to tricking, everyone gets there eventually, and finds their own style. Reim I really respect you, I thin you are a really emotive and caring person who lives for this sport. freedom of expression is very important to you, so ignore the structure and go with what ever you feel, no one is stopping you. There are however, trickers who need that structure and like to feel they are progressing in a certain way. They like to classify stuff and set goals etc. That's fine by me aswell. we are all different, and the documents may help us, they may not. The important thing is that we have the freedom to choose whether we use them, which by and large, we all do.

I haven't said my piece about the 'witholding of tricks,' but I wholly disagree with this. I think it is patronising on some levels, but more importantly I think it stifles progression. But hey, it aint my choice, I aint anywhere near that level of practition and maybe never will be. I can't make that decision for them and even if an agreement does exist, all I can do is voice my disapproval (which I did with this paragraph - notice the lack of bashing and flaming).

Finally, *dream on, trick on* just like Andy says. Everyone makes their own path. If trickers are influenced by some of Sessh's documentation, I hope it is in a positive way. Like I said before, people find their own way. If the community is changing, it's changing because it has to. When something begins or is created, there is always an element of excitement. You are part of a creation, part of the evolution, and you make up part of the whole. As things change around you, perceptions change, practitioners change, the tricks themsleves change. All of a sudden you are left without that feeling of excitement, of evolution, of things in constant flux. Things start to take shape, become classified, get rated, there's an unseen structure developing (especially true of the combination unless you consciously ignore it), trends evolve. This is a concrete change, and what eveolves out of this change starts to become solid, something that has not been seen in this sport ever. It has however, happened with nearly all sports worldwide. I have no doubt that eventually differing 'schools' of trickers will evolve with different attitudes and beliefs (MLM is a great example of this beginning to happen). One school will hate another and eventually further divisions will occur. It's kinda like sociological development of a community sport, only with the internet, we are seeing its development like nothing ever before. We are part of this change and to be honest, there is nothing we can do about it. History proves that (and I know we all like to think we can change the way we behave in groups but unfortunately we have been proved wrong time and time again). The best thing we can do is forge our own path, share good times, and enjoy our small part in this evolution.

Fuck the establishment and anything that tells me what to do. I choose what to take from what I see, and I like it that way. I love tricking, it has become a part of me. Anything that adds to the experience is a bonus.

[FatTricks]

Read my last post....should I spill the beans?

http://trickstutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?p=490601#post490601

[Kyukodo Gaz]

Spill spill spill! I'll clean them up I promise :smile:

[FatTricks]

Spilt! http://trickstutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?p=490601#post490601

[ben brown]

locke -

what you have said is very reasonable. a couple things i would like more of your thoughts on though.

if tricks are based in the martial arts than how am i incorporating them into my martial arts? martial arts came before tricking and techniques like 540, cheat 720, butterfly twist, double-leg, raiz etc. etc. all came wayyyyyy before tricking ever did. so isn't it the other way around? aren't trickers incorporating martial arts techniques into their tricking? the same way breakdancers incorporate tricks into their breakdancing.

as for me and the thoughts regarding the techniques i do and i why..... anymore, (this was not true a few years ago but now i know better) i only practice martial arts techniques such as 540, cheat 720 etc. because they are merely jump kicking techniques, no different than a jump 360 hook kick ect. to me they are not "tricks", they are jump kicking techniques because in the martial arts (taekwon-do, wushu, capoeira etc.etc) thats exactly what they are. i dont incorporate anything into my martial arts and nothing is an extension of them either because there is nothing to incorporate or extend........... those techniques have been martial arts techniques since their origin.

however, techniques like sideswipe, corkscrew, snapu-swipe, boxcutter etc. etc. are not martial arts techniques....... i agree with you totally...... they are sport oriented techniques. they are not martial arts techniques because they do not follow the principles and theories of the martial arts. this is my belief not because they "wouldn't work on the street" but because of other various qualities that do not coincide with what the martial arts are. they are very synonymous with what i understand the sport of tricking to be. this is reasonable and is a positive thing for the sport of tricking.

many of the tricks are kicks. kicking techniques like roundhouse kick, side kick, hook kick, axe kick etc. are the fundamental foundation for all kicking techniques. technique in kicks gives birth to technique in jump kicks and one could say that it is no different for tricks that involve kicks. another reason i dont practice these techniques is again, not because they would not work on the street, but because they conflict with the way the fundamental technique that the kick within the trick should be executed. basketball players dont practice with women's sized basketballs because of the difference of the size and weight of the ball which in the future could have an effect of their skill with the ball....... this is the same general principle. furthermore, they never practice on 8 or 9 foot basketball goals because this would effect their accuracy and depth perception.

i think breakdancers should accept that a lot of their "powermoves" come from gymnastics and tricking. does that make them trickers though? no, they practice their sport/art of breakdancing which as you very nicely put is its own entity. however, if they are not giving credit to tricking....... they are wrong and should be giving the sport of tricking its due credit.

tricking involves advanced jump kicking techniques of the martial arts. the sport of tricking HAS grown into its own entity. since they practice techniques that come from the martial arts should they be called martial artists? no, they practice their own sport. however, they too should accept and give credit to the martial arts where it is deserved.

i am a martial artist who practices martial arts techniques which origins are traced to the martial arts 100 years or more ago. i do not practice techniques such as sideswipe (again, i used to but not anymore), corkscrew etc. because they do not pertain to my line of study. those techniques find their purpose in the sport of tricking.

does this make sense? your thoughts would be much appreciated! thanks locke and sorry for the long post.

[DarkXacreD]

Ben brown, don't hate on corks yet. I still can't do them.

[ben brown]

hahahaaa!!!

i'm not hating on any technique........ just simply trying to clarify the relevancy of things. keep practicing...... you will be able to do them in no time!! =)

[Locke]

The way I'm treating tricks here, is as something born from martial arts but sperate for it, what I'm trying to say is that the same kind of logic used in theories of martial arts doesnt necessarily apply to tricking. "Tricking", unlike martial arts HAS no practical application, no tricks are thrown with that in mind, and I mean that even when trickers use Martial art techniques, such as 540. Even a hook kick in tricks, although it should be performed with martial arts technique... tricks provides a different context in which people place these moves, what I mean is, a 540 and a corkscrew are both equally part of tricking, no matter where each came from originally - so both are equally "canonical moves" in the context of TRICKS - as its own sport (if that makes sense).

tricking involves advanced jump kicking techniques of the martial arts. the sport of tricking HAS grown into its own entity. since they practice techniques that come from the martial arts should they be called martial artists? no, they practice their own sport. however, they too should accept and give credit to the martial arts where it is deserved.

What you say there, I 100% agree with, that's exactly how I see it, of course tricks is linked with martial arts, very fundamentally, and what I ment before was that I believe trick techniques SHOULD be performed according to basic martial art rules - I'm right in saying you don't consider yourself a tricker at all correct?, but a martial artist who trains martial art techniques which happen to also be used in tricks - so basically there's a space for overlapping, and the place where that ends, is the place you draw the line? where moves no longer have relevance in strictly Martial Art terms?

The only thing possibly is that I'm more carefree about what moves contravene martial art technique, because I don't see myself as a martial artist, purely a tricker, and tricks is something absolutely only for show, for fun and for messing around doing cool flippy stuff! - THATS the spirit I'm going for in tricks, if people can mix THAT feeling, along with keeping some dicipline, and caring about perfecting technique and not being sloppy, thats all I want for this sport - so I care very much within the sport of tricks, about the same things you do

Tricks has its own set of unofficial rules, seperate from those of martial arts, the only thing which I didnt like, was that it seemed to me you were using strict martial art based guidelines and applying them to tricks - which seemed to completely go against the spirit of tricks, the "take whatever you can from any source and just look damn cool!" spirit it generally seems to have, to rationalise which moves to try and which not to try and so on based on martial arts applicability (is that a word \o/) - but I think you have this same idea of the spirit of tricks vs the spirit of martial arts as me, tricks IS more carefree, I'm a tricker, you're a martial artist, that's all, we seem to agree on nearly everything :)

[ben brown]

LOCKE!!!! -

yes!!! everything you just said was exactly what i have probably been failing to say. =) the martial arts are to me what tricking is to you =) since you are a tricker you are not a martial artist........ to call you a martial artist would be to deny the goals and qualities of your own sport, which again is its own entity. and the exact same applies for me as a martial artist.

in short, i agree 110% that there should not be a conflict concerning these matters. also, i totally agree with you in that nobody should ever assume that a tricker and a martial artist will have the same mindset regarding even a technique like a spin hook kick........ how could they? they came into the technique with totally different reasons and goals!! as you said the context of the technique is completely different.......... i could not have said it better!!=)

thank you for your time and your thoughts locke, in hearing other peoples thoughts, conversations like this one help me better understand my own. thanks again man!!

[Locke]

Thank you too, It's a fun debate :D I havn't written this much in here for a while ^^

[Jon P]

to many words to read. haha.

[Nick B]

i think people take tricking waaayyyy to seriously. i dont get it. i've never thought of tricking as a form of expression or art. hell, everyone does the same damn moves everyone else does with minor quirks that make it their "style."

and about the sessh thing. it seems people think that everyone takes all his crazy stories as 100% true because when some people start disrespecting him for his comments or whatever, us who know him and know he is cool, if a little crazy, defend him to some degree. we are not so dumb as to believe everything he says, we are just trying to show respect for someone that has put alot of time and effort into the community.

for the record, i havent read any of sessh's tricking things and i also havent seen a sampler other than some raw footage of my own in almost half a year. i guess tricking isnt as much a part of my life as it used to be.

[TartanPajamas]

Stall your twist till you leave the ground and kick higher. Other than that you have a very nice corkscrew.

I mean, yeah, stop takin' it so seriously!

[jan]

I fully agree with locke and Ben Brown here.

... though, every time I read Ben Brown's posts, I think of the phrase:

"Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind."

:P

[biyak]

wtf is wrong with you people =\
why every body are overcomplicating things...
just share the love!
<-----------------
every body on this forum!

TKD_andy, Jan, shengoike, reim, and every body!!!

fuck every thing else!

^______________^ just be happy and trick!

[ben brown]

jan -

"reaper man". although i completely dis-agree with such a shallow minded statement i understand the point of it. but hey, i'm not going to argue that i am probably a few cards shy of a full deck....... hell, who isn't. besides, because the current state of the world is such a joke its almost complimentary to be called crazy. if crazy is anything other than what most people are like today i will gladly wear "my underpants on my head".=P

take care everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)

[EmaDragon]

sorry ...i know backhandspring as gymnastic flik flak...
what is flik flak in tricking??? and shaolin cross???

[Dragonic MiKe]

Only sessh knows.

shhhhh. :worry:

[jan]

jan -

"reaper man". although i completely dis-agree with such a shallow minded statement i understand the point of it. but hey, i'm not going to argue that i am probably a few cards shy of a full deck....... hell, who isn't. besides, because the current state of the world is such a joke its almost complimentary to be called crazy. if crazy is anything other than what most people are like today i will gladly wear "my underpants on my head".=P

take care everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)

Terry Pratchett is my favourite author, after all:)

Good for you!!!!!! :D

[biyak]

isn't it hatchet man?

[jan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaper_Man

[biyak]

ops i guess :} is it worth the read?

[Dragonic MiKe]

Man, Terry Pratchett sounds pretty cool.

I should really get around to reading some.


Edit: Any suggestions as to which to start with? Are the discworld novels like a series to be read in order or not?

[Serial]

sorry ...i know backhandspring as gymnastic flik flak...
what is flik flak in tricking??? and shaolin cross???

flik flak is where you set up like a cork, and without twisting, pump your jumping leg, then kick with your non-jumping leg towards where you came from.

im pretty sure sessh uses them in his loopkicks 06 samp

shaolin cross is discussed here (http://trickstutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23621&highlight=shaolin)

[Kimimaro]

Hrmm...the mirrors seem to be expired. Cicero could you send it to me please, on MSN :D?

[TKD_Andy]

mike:

Mort is a great book by Pratchett, so are (that i've read)

-pyramids
-wyrd sisters
-witches abroad
-the colour of magic
-eric

[Kyukodo Gaz]

All his books are good, and incredible clever. he's an intelligent man, and has excellent life observation.

I love all his books, they really make me laugh out loud, and there aren't many authors who do that.

[jan]

I found Eric to be boring. It felt rushed, and not as good as the rest. I honestly didn't like it much.

Every single Discworld book up to book 16 (which is as far as I've gotten atm), rocks arse though. Granny is awesome:D Witches abroad, Lords and Ladies... Soul Music was fun enough, with way too many references to modern music:P

[Andy Longcat]

question:

Wasn't it Ben Brown that said backyarders are nothing? :worry:

[Kyukodo Gaz]

I don't know.

Wait until you get to his latest stuff, it really is awesome.

[TKD_Andy]

who's latest stuff, ben browns or pratchetts????

[kinetic]

Wth is a
One-Hand Cheat 720 | 1-H C720| Invert/Kick/Spin| Tricking | “good” One-Hand Raiz & Cheat 720 Wheel Kick
obviously pulled from T101. Show me a video if possible please. Somebody.

[Locke]

http://www.divshare.com/download/372312-d80 - There's one in there, 10 seconds

[Kyukodo Gaz]

Pratchett's. I aint seen any new Ben brown stuff in yonks.

[brandonn]

1 hand c720 is the coolest shit ever

[Reim]

question:

Wasn't it Ben Brown that said backyarders are nothing? :worry:

GET YOUR QUOTES STRAIGHT!!!

[glide2]

i am a martial artist who practices martial arts techniques which origins are traced to the martial arts 100 years or more ago. i do not practice techniques such as sideswipe (again, i used to but not anymore), corkscrew etc. because they do not pertain to my line of study. those techniques find their purpose in the sport of tricking.

I understand that you're a martial artist and thus, you focus on kicks. But being a martial artist doesn't mean that you have to be only that. You can be a martial artist who throws some crazy shit that has nothing to do with martial arts (like Sess or Tony Jaa for example). I think you limit yourself too much by not practicing tricks, cause you're fucking good at them! I mean, your flashkick, front flip, aerial, raiz, etc. are all top notch... usually when you can do some moves so cleanly, you don't just flush them, you keep doing them, while still practicing the kicks of course.

I know that tricks like sideswipe, jacknife, btwist round, etc. have no application in martial arts and that the kicks they contain arn't in "proper martial arts form", but so what? They're still kicks that can look like they take someone's head off (your own words), and that's only good. And please tell me that you still practice your flash cause it's like the best in the world.

[Dave]

He was brought up with traditional martial arts... why would he be concerned with doing things which may be considered 'cool'.
He made it clear his reasoning for why he learns certain moves and not others... You have to respect his choice of wanting to be a martial artist, as he respects yours of being a tricker.

[glide2]

He was brought up with traditional martial arts... why would he be concerned with doing things which may be considered 'cool'.

Well you should ask him, since he did practice those things at some point, and probably still does sometimes (in a non serious way... just fucking around like most trickers do)

[Dave]

No I phrased that poorly I think. What I mean is he previously stated he doesn't bother with corks and whatnot as they hold no real value and wouldn't be useful in adding to his arsenal. My question was rhetorical.

[ben brown]

hi glide & dave!! -

thank you very much for the kind words and being understanding of my thoughts. i appreciate that very much.

to answer your question glide, frankly, i have no idea how to answer that, but i will make my best attempt. i will do my best to explain my thoughts on this but i know that i will not be able to write my thoughts down as i understand them in my heart.

my thoughts on the matter are not just based on tricks and everything that they entail, but the condition of the martial arts today as a whole. i believe that there are 1000's of so-called martial artists and martial arts schools but only a small handful of true ones. studying the martial arts in my opinion does not just mean doing what you were taught to do etc. but it means learning something about the martial arts and then questioning it. the only way you can get to the truth of anything is to question it, doubt it, ask why, and ponder other ways about going at it. i have done this with my techniques time and time again, trying to get to the bottom of the truth. now, when i say truth, i dont mean "law", or "its this way or the highway" etc. the path of the martial arts is an individual one. every martial artist has his/her own truth in the martial arts. and since the path of the martial arts is an individual one, nobody can do your training for you, nobody can do your studying for you, nobody can do your questioning for you, and nobody can guide you to your truth. as you are alone in this, it is very, very difficult.

i have been studying the martial arts since i was very young and doing everything i can to learn about the various qualities of the martial arts..... from striking, to grappling, to competing (traditionally, sparring, open forms etc.) to tricks. i have done many things in the past that conflict with what i now understand to be the true way of the martial arts. as i still have time on my side, i want to spend the strongest years of my training doing everything i can to be a "true" martial artist.

i now completely understand why so many people years ago spent their entire life time practicing and studying the martial arts. in todays world the martial arts usually consist of training in your younger years and teaching in your older years....... there is merit in teaching in your older years, however, its impossible to have a full grasp of the martial arts before your dying day. i have always thought that the martial arts were very intricate, methodical, and complex...... but, i never fully realized how difficult the martial arts truly are!!!

in the martial arts (i'm sure this idea is widely known, however, it is RARELY put into practice) the goal of a martial artist is to seek self improvement through external hardship. this means breaking the body down over and over so it becomes stronger. once the body has become strong (and i dont mean muscle strength) the mind can become strong. now, you break down the mind over and over again so that it seems like you were born that way. to illustrate my point, think of a task that you do everyday. it can be anything at all from pouring a drink to the way you put your shoes on in the morning. now, for the next month try to perform that action the exact same way every single time that you do it. it is very difficult to do, but even more so with martial arts techniques because consider the fact that there is a scientifically correct way to perform that action which takes years of training to obtain. because of this i now realize that there are not that many true martial arts techniques. miyamoto musashi said "when it comes to cutting people down, there are not that many ways to go about doing it." this is the truth. the perfection of only a handful of techniques takes a lifetime to TRULY obtain. now combine the difficulty of perfecting even one technique with the mind that completes the technique..... this is even harder to do!!!! a side kick is nothing if it is not done correctly. a side kick only has some merit if it is not consistent. but, even a consistently correct side kick is not complete if you do not have the mind to know when and how to use it. now, take all of that but apply it to front kick, roundhouse kick, hook kick, axe kick, outer crescent kick, spin hook kick, spin side kick etc. and thats not counting hand techniques, jump kicking techniques, throws etc.!!!!! needless to say, i have YEARS of training left and i feel like i need every hour of training that i can to obtain my truth of the martial arts.

when you get to this point, you see the martial arts like a sculpture. knowing what is necessary and what it is not, knowing what works for you as an individual and what does not, you start stripping away things that do not apply to your line of study in the martial arts. i have stripped away traditional kicking techniques that i felt were unnecessary or did not comply with the principles of the martial arts. and i have done the same with certain jump kicking techniques as well as throws and grappling techniques. too much is the same as not enough. a martial artist has to be balanced and well-rounded in all aspects of fighting. things like boxing and the ufc and pride etc can get away with what they do because it is not fighting........ it is sparring because there are rules, regulations, and judges. however, these things dont exist in the martial arts.

i think the place i am at right now is normal. this is something every martial artist must do in order to fully understand the traditional teachings and make them their own. this part of learning will be different for every single martial artist that studies. i can confidently say that my techniques are stronger in every way now than they have ever been........ but i dont think that it is coincidence that they are that way right now. its because i am zeroing in on what applies to me as a martial artist and getting more detailed with my techniques and training as a whole. there are certain techniques that i still execute because i feel that they are strong techniques, have merit concerning the martial arts and again, a martial artist who is not well rounded is lacking...... a strong martial artist is one who is not lacking anything but does nothing unnecessary...... thus, he is well rounded.

i hope that answered some questions......... please understand that it is extremely difficult to explain even with words let alone trying to write them out. thank you again very much for your words regarding my techniques!!=)

[sesshoumaru]

You can be a martial artist who throws some crazy shit that has nothing to do with martial arts (like Sess or Tony Jaa for example). I think you limit yourself too much by not practicing tricks, cause you're fucking good at them! I mean, your flashkick, front flip, aerial, raiz, etc. are all top notch...

Thanx for the compliments of sorts, but I've taken Capoeira [Angola & Regional], so my level of non-offensive acro is applicable according to my studies.

Though Ben is ultra-sharp in many of the tricks that he does/used to do...it would be incorrect [from a martial artist standpoint] for him to practice Sideswipes, Jacknifes, and "swingthrus" .

Even if the technique is somewhat applicable, like a [B]Jacknife...you kinda have to understand that it's existance doesn't have any "real" point. If your 540 is very good, and you were to Jacknife, then the second kick wouldn't hit the target because the first kick already destroyed it. If you were to paint the picture: you threw a Jacknife and the first kicked was "ducked", and the opponent stood up into the second kick. Then it would give the Jacknife substance. However, as a martial artist...you would choose to do a technique that the opponent could fully avoid in the first place, so if you choose to do a Jacknife [if you're study in "the way" is good], you are going to do that Jacknife when the opponent cannot avoid it...and if you hit with the first kick, the second is pointless; therefore the technique as a whole is pointless.

-EDIT-

Wow Ben...I just read your post! I'm glad that someone else is going through the same thing I'm going through right now. I've broken down, extrapolated, and reformed my MA disciplines and beliefs over and over again as well. I'm getting closer to my conclusion on what is the "true martial way", but I'm still experimenting [tricking]...

[ben brown]

Even if the technique is somewhat applicable, like a Jacknife...you kinda have to understand that it's existance doesn't have any "real" point. If your 540 is very good, and you were to Jacknife, then the second kick wouldn't hit the target because the first kick already destroyed it. If you were to paint the picture: you threw a Jacknife and the first kicked was "ducked", and the opponent stood up into the second kick. Then it would give the Jacknife substance. However, as a martial artist...you would choose to do a technique that the opponent could fully avoid in the first place, so if you choose to do a Jacknife [if you're study in "the way" is good], you are going to do that Jacknife when the opponent cannot avoid it...and if you hit with the first kick, the second is pointless; therefore the technique as a whole is pointless.[/QUOTE]


EXACTLY!!! -

in the martial arts, this is the method of thought that is applied to all techniques and all things concerning fighting.

another example, back kick is a technique that is contrary to the principles of the martial arts because it is a technique that is required to be executed from a vulnerable position. not to say that it has NO merit concerning the martial arts but it should be considered to be one of very restricted use. in short, the back kick is contrary to the principles of the martial arts because if you allowed an opponent to get behind you, you have already lost the fight regardless of whether or not he did any harm to you.

[TKD_Andy]

so ben, you'd consider yourself a failure if you let an opponent gain ground behind you?

to me being a proficient martial artist is to be able to defend yourself in any situation, whether theyre in front, behind or whatever. I dont see any point in leaving something out because you dont want your opponent to be there.

i see what you mean though, this is just my POV :good:

[TartanPajamas]

It seems to me, although I'm not a martial artist, that you are leaving out techniques that apply to any situation in which you have missed your opponent or messed up in any other way.

Although a jackknife is not a "practical" move, the idea of having a back-up plan should you miss is a necessity, in my opinion.

[SkyintheSea]

my thoughts on the matter are not just .......


.... Wow.
I didn't quote the whole post to avoid bothering the readers...
Your words, along with sessh's ones, made me very, very happy. I'm happy to see that there is still someone young that asks himself about what martial arts actually are.
Good Luck boys~

[Dave]

Andy and TP I think what they are saying is that the true practice of MA isn't about "if I screw up I'm gonna have to do xyz". If you go in with that mindset, than you don't have complete faith in yourself, therefore, how can you compete to the best of your abilities when mentally you are already losing?

That is my brief interpretation but I do not have anywhere minutely close to the MA intelligence, experience, knowledge and wiseness that Sesshoumaru and Ben Brown do and I wouldn't dare claim I can see things through their eyes...

So maybe we shall wait and see what they have to say on the matter ^_^

[shengoikee]

ben makes me wish i did martial arts again :agony:

[ben brown]

hey andy!! -

yeah, there is always going to be a "defense" so to speak, that a martial artist must have around his entire body.

but, i feel that someone that truly understands the martial arts (physically, mentally, and strategically) would never allow such a thing to occur.

being cognizant of the events around you on a constant basis is extremely hard to do......... but if one WILL do it, it can be done. the true advantage of the martial arts is getting the jump on others and never allowing them to get the jump on you. never allowing someone to get behind you and putting you in a vulnerable position is best. allowing yourself to be put into a disadvantages position and having to fight your way out of it is only second best.

tartan -hello sir. i fully understand what you are saying about the "plan b" mindset....... and it is essential to think and be ahead of anything that comes your way in the martial arts but, i'm afraid that what was said about jacknife is only half of the problem. i am going to try to explain this the best i can but please keep in open mind because it is so very hard to explain.

the mind in the martial arts has to be very pragmatic. we can talk about specific techniques and what could happen and what wont happen but it boils down to this..........method, priority, and strategy. the martial arts are about efficiency and immediacy. what i understand the true martial arts to be is to eliminate a problem quickly. this means observing the problem (opponent etc.) and having enough knowledge of the martial arts to know exactly what will work on this one specific person and what will not. (this is why in sport oriented sparring.....ufc, boxing, pride etc. everyone "fights" each other the same way because they are all adhering to the same rules or "methods" as everyone else involved) now, once you have obtained how to rid yourself of the problem in front of you, you do not want to go about it in a long round about way. this is where a lot of people start splitting hairs. it does not matter what the technique that you employ is, so long as it takes care of the problem. it can be a kick to the face, it can be a kick to the floating ribs or to the knee, it can be an elbow strike to the throat........ what ever the case may be as long at it will put an end to your problem. now, the method of fighting that is often adopted by many martial artists is the "one strike, one kill" theory. does that mean that because you think "one strike, one kill" that it will always turn out that way? no. however, a martial artist has to train and employ techniques that coincide with the advantages of efficiency, which means TRAINING every technique LIKE it will kill an opponent. does that mean that if i execute a cross to someones chin that he will drop on the floor dead......... no, but that is the mentality behind it. so, a technique that employs two attacking techniques in the same motion is contrary to this theory and inefficient. if a technique was executed with the correct martial arts mindset there should be no reason for a second attack. if a mistake was made and the technique failed (which if this is the case, you chose the incorrect technique to employ), another attack should be employed with the same conviction that puts you at an advantage and puts your opponent at a dis-advantage.

just for the sake of argument........... a technique like jacknife is inefficient because its output is not equal to that of its input. jacknife is ultimately a 540 and a cheat 720 combined. however, neither kick in a jacknife is half as strong as a 540 or a cheat 720 alone but you are doing twice the work than just doing either of the above. i think that it is obvious that something like a jacknife does not merit much worth when it comes to the martial arts. now, i realize that we are talking about a jacknife here, i got that. however, it would be inconsistent and some what hypocritical of me to "pick and choose" what i train with a martial arts mind and what i dont like its food in a buffet restaurant. i have to be honest with myself and approach the martial arts with an honest mind without personal bias. i have to approach every technique regardless of what it may be (punch or jump kick etc.) with the same methods and principles of the martial arts that i know to be true.

for the record, its not like i enjoy going through techniques that i have spent years of time and sweat practicing and refining and then realizing that i am not utilizing my time optimally resulting in me never practicing them again. ask chris devera how much i LOVE jacknife. but that does not change the fact that i have a lifetime worth of training to do and i cant be wasting time on techniques that i feel are contrary to my beliefs in the martial arts. dont think that i didn't wake up every day for a few weeks depressed as hell thinking to myself "i'm not going to practice jacknife today!!!!!" =( but thats life and you accept it and keep training. i am confident with my decisions regarding what techniques i study and what techniques i dont study because i have been studying them for years......... so i understand their specific strengths and weaknesses. many of the techniques that i have disregarded are traditional techniques that i have been studying since i was a child!! i firmly believe that the point of every martial art is to make it your own. the point of martial arts is not to adhere to the techniques as gospel truth. the martial arts are a guide line.......... a kind of map, that shows you how to reach your own path. to get there it takes A LOT of training, A LOT of refinement, A LOT of honesty, and A LOT of study.

skyinthesea -

thank you very much! its very difficult but i am giving it my all.

[glide2]

That phrase got me wondering: "dont think that i didn't wake up every day for a few weeks depressed as hell thinking to myself "i'm not going to practice jacknife today!!!!!" =( but thats life and you accept it and keep training." Seems like you're facing a dilemma. First, you tell to yourself: "I'm a fighter, not an acrobat. My goal is to beat my opponent, not perform eye-candy dancing." But on the other hand, you just love the eye-candy stuff, even if it doesn't pertain in your martial arts framework. So you make a sacrifice, so that you keep what is the most useful in your martial arts quest... It's your choice and I respect it. You sound like a very wise man... don't get old too fast!

[kinetic]

http://www.divshare.com/download/372312-d80 - There's one in there, 10 seconds

Thanks:good:

[sesshoumaru]

the mind in the martial arts has to be very pragmatic. we can talk about specific techniques and what could happen and what wont happen but it boils down to this..........method, priority, and strategy. the martial arts are about efficiency and immediacy. what i understand the true martial arts to be is to eliminate a problem quickly. this means observing the problem (opponent etc.) and having enough knowledge of the martial arts to know exactly what will work on this one specific person and what will not...

"When sword fencing, it would be considered a "waste" to mindlessly attack the unblemished areas of an opponents' "bogu" [armour]...for history has shown that his defense of those unblemished areas is noteworthy. Therefore, it would be wise to exploit where he allows himself to be struck...As a means of conserving the spirit [energy] and the duration of the duel." -- Araki Mantaemon

It is important to observe and analyze the opponent that you are facing. The weapons of the opponent should be noted [calves, traps, shoulders, triceps, biceps, shins, knuckles, and torso...anything that could attribute to the opponent having increased speed, power, range of motion, pain tolerance/stability]. This study should take place before a strategy is even applied. This is why the first 30-60 seconds of a sparring match should be less intense than the remainder of the match...the participants should be analyzing and forming a strategy. With great dedication and practice, these things become "automatic" and take up a considerably less amount of time.

so ben, you'd consider yourself a failure if you let an opponent gain ground behind you?

to me being a proficient martial artist is to be able to defend yourself in any situation, whether theyre in front, behind or whatever. I dont see any point in leaving something out because you dont want your opponent to be there.

i see what you mean though, this is just my POV :good:

Like Ben said earlier, it is important for the martial warrior to be aware of his surroundings, and not allow hostile elements to approach him from the rear.

"When dealing with multiple targets...if you can see it, then it is not the problem. It's the targets that go unaccounted for that have the greatest chance of achieving victory against you." -- Araki Mantaemon

Despite this, there will always be a chance that a person may go unaccounted for. The idea isn't to be perfect; but to be proficient [as you said] in a way that it is efficeint in both offense and defense.

I don't think Ben is saying that the back kick is contradictory to "the way"; but instead he is stating that it is not a technique that should be used as an offensive tactic [becuase the blind point is too large].

"The goal of the "martial warrior" is to take everything from the enemy and give him nothing." -- Nobuyuki Sato

Though the back kick is one of the most powerful of martial techniques. You have to turn away from the target to perform it. This isn't unlike the spin hook or the spin crescent...but it keeps the back exposed for too long [which contradicts the goal of martial combat].

[brandonn]

Sessh, who are Araki Mantaemon and Nobuyuki Sato?

Ignore me if this is an extremely stupid question

[sesshoumaru]

Sessh, who are Araki Mantaemon and Nobuyuki Sato?

Ignore me if this is an extremely stupid question


Araki Mantaemon is one of the most famous samurai of the early 1600's [during the Edo period]. Not only being reknowned as a talented smurai, he was also a very respected ninja as well. He's the founder of Yagyu Shingan Ryu school of Taijutsu. His most noteworthy accomplishment was defeating 36 men in the "Battle at Kagiya Corner" with a single sword sequence.

Nobuyuki Sato was one of my Judo instructors that I trained under while I was in Japan. A man of tradition, Sato is mostly a man whom I have great respect for. His study in "the way" is as impressive as it is thorough.

[TartanPajamas]

Obviously it's up to you (Ben) whether or not you practice tricks, but why not just practice your jackknives and your sideswipes for fun?

[Scott]

Hahaha "GIVE THEM NOTHING, AND TAKE FROM THEM EVERYTHING!" - Leonidas

[sesshoumaru]

Oh shit...he sure did say that! Didn't even notice!

[Scott]

Haha, yes. I'm not saying that as a jab at you or anything, I just like the quote and it was great in the movie with the Scottish accent and such.

[Dave]

Obviously it's up to you (Ben) whether or not you practice tricks, but why not just practice your jackknives and your sideswipes for fun?

Because he has limited time and doesn't want to waste time on techniques which are of no use to him or which don't follow his MA beliefs.


:agony: !

[DarkXacreD]

usually, I read long posts.

But this is fucking RIDICULOUS!

Y'all need to CALM DOWN! AHHHH!

[jan]

... who's the one not calm atm? Stop trying to be the not-so-good peacemaker.

[TKD_Andy]

this thread is STILL going?

im wearing my own du-rags today :smile:

Its actually just a black tie that i use as a belt, its nice and light. I stole the ideo from SIRjoe :good:

[jan]

This thread stopped 2 days ago actually.

[Dragonic MiKe]

this thread is STILL going?

im wearing my own du-rags today :smile:

Its actually just a black tie that i use as a belt, its nice and light. I stole the ideo from SIRjoe :good:

Only Joe can pull that off, Andy. And you know it. :wise:

[TKD_Andy]

its ok mike! I asked joe at the oxford gathering if i could do it and got the go-ahead :smile:

[Dragonic MiKe]

its ok mike! I asked joe at the oxford gathering if i could do it and got the go-ahead :smile:

Well... alright then. If Joe says it's okay. :P

[Kalvin]

ok couple questions.

1. This might be cuz im at school right now i dont know... but it says File has expired when i open any of those... im assuming its cuz im at school ill check it out when i get home.
2. Sesh is that like HONESTLY you on this forum or is someone posting as you? or do you honestlly take the time outa your day to come help people on a internet forum lol... its like Celebrities who "make" myspaces... none of them do all of those are fake just curious if your the real thing.
3. Another question for Sesh... In your honest opinion do you think you or Anus is better? like in over all not just in 1 category.

[Serial]

ok couple questions.

1. This might be cuz im at school right now i dont know... but it says File has expired when i open any of those... im assuming its cuz im at school ill check it out when i get home.
2. Sesh is that like HONESTLY you on this forum or is someone posting as you? or do you honestlly take the time outa your day to come help people on a internet forum lol... its like Celebrities who "make" myspaces... none of them do all of those are fake just curious if your the real thing.
3. Another question for Sesh... In your honest opinion do you think you or Anus is better? like in over all not just in 1 category.
1. They are on Bilang.com
2. Yes it is really Sessh
3. Its Anis, not anus.

[Kalvin]

1. They are on Bilang.com
2. Yes it is really Sessh
3. Its Anis, not anus.


ok so it is really sessh sweet... and i thought it was anis but theres the guy on here named anus and since sessh is reall i thought maybe that was him and fucken i dunno!!! peer pressure!! gahhh... still doesnt answer my question though who is Better over all Sessh, or Anis.

[Serial]

Lol, yeah there are fake accounts but with Sessh is really him.
There is no way of telling 'who is better'. Its an opinion. They have different styles and different people like different styles etc.
If you mean who has more tricks, probably Sessh, but that doesn't mean he is 'better overall'.
I personally favor Sess, but I like them both. I doubt you'll get Sessh to say he or Anis is better, because it doesn't work that way IMO. Decide for yourself who is better :good:

[Dave]

Completely different styles. Depends if you define better as range of tricks, speed, height[objective] or as style, creativity, flow, etc. [subjective]. Tricking is pretty subjective so I'd say it mainly comes down to the individuals choice and my personal choice would be Sessh just as I think he is extremely well balanced, powerful...

[jkarate212]

re-link plz :)

[Serial]

re-link plz :)

lol are you serious?
*sigh* its at bilang.com: T10X (http://bilang.com/system.php?cat=misc&page=documents)
theres a link:good: