Aarrggghh! My reflexes are choking me!

[AlphaOmega]

I am having a major problem. I know many, if not most, people have fear problems when learning moves, like back flip, front flip, aerial, etc. I have also read the advice that you people give for it, (just go for it).
Well, I don’t have this fear problem. I can just go out and try a move without hesitation (or very little hesitation). I am also not afraid of injuries as I have had more than a few (fractures, torn ligaments etc.). But I have another problem that maybe bigger than plain fear.

I have good reflexes.

Most of you will think that good reflexes isn’t a problem, many will think that I am exaggerating or thinking I have better-than-average reflexes when I don’t. I know I do have good reflexes. Not only that, they have been honed over the years by the stuff I do. I am a bit of speed freak, and have never had a problem with risks. I have been in more than my share of bike accidents (that’s motorbike, not bicycle), and I have always walked of with no injuries.

Example:
Once I was walking on an approx. 6 foot high wall, when a friend (who was walking on the ground alongside) suddenly grabbed my ankle (he wanted to ‘scare’ me). I was in mid-step and fell off the wall. I could have been hurt, but instead I did a side-flip (diagonally) and landed standing. I didn’t intend to do the flip, I had no idea that I had done it. It happened so fast I didn’t have time to think. One minute I was looking at the ground coming to meet face, the next I was standing on my feet (scared as hell, guess my friend fulfilled his purpose:punched: ). It’s my friend who told me what happened. He said that I had tucked and turned my body so my legs moved from being over my head to under me.

This is just one example, but there have been many others. I just choose this one to give you an idea of what I mean. My body always automatically does whatever it’s necessary to avoid dangerous situations. I know it’s true with everyone, but mine does it very fast and VERY effectively, considering how many time it’s has had to. So that’s my problem. It isn’t fear.

While I have always prided myself on my reflexes, and my ability to get out of situations unharmed, it is hindering my tricking progress. E.g. I tried 2 tricks today. The butterfly twist and the front flip.

I choose the front flip cause when I went to do the aerial, I kept on throwing my hands down and doing a dive cartwheel instead. So I decided that getting the front flip might help since they both involve jumping and rotating around your upper body. When I go to do the flips, as soon as I jump, my body automatically balls-up and I go into a forward roll. I did this on my lawn. I thought a mattress might help, so I got mine out, but the results were the same. I kept on doing the front roll. I tried jumping harder, but when I was in the air and whipped my hands down, my body didn’t complete the tuck, and I landed on my hands with my feet in the air in the handstand position (must have looked pretty cool, jumping high vertically and landing in a handstand:cool: ).

I tried the btwist too. The first couple of times, predictably, I didn’t jump properly. When I did, I dipped down, threw my back leg up, and kicked. As soon as my kicking leg extended, I whipped my arms and shoulder to twist. But as soon as I started twisting, my body reacted, and my back leg (which was in the air), snapped down fast and hard. So I landed in a semi-sidesplit position (painful:ouch: ). I think I could have twisted in the air if my self-preservation instinct hadn’t kicked in.

I just don’t know what to do with this. Have anyone else here had this problem? I am really not afraid of the moves. But when I try them, my instincts don’t allow me to use proper technique. My body tries to get into a safer position, and messes up my technique.

I don’t have trouble with ground moves. I think my instincts and reflexes might have aided me a lot with my front handsprings. I got them in 3 sessions, with 10-12 tries per session, around 10 days after I started tricking. I might have gotten them sooner if I had filmed them, cause I filmed my second session, and when I saw how much I was doing wrong I was able to get them in the very next session. They aren’t perfect, but all I had to do was to whip my body down and kick-off, and my body handled the rest. But this thing is getting in the way of the air moves.

If someone else had this problem, please let me know what you did to get over it.

[Inkrepid]

If you want anyone to reply to these threads seriously you better start making cliff notes. Im not gonna spend 10 minutes reading your post when I could be doing better things.

[Nick B]

no, it is fear. the reason you can't over come it is because you deny being afraid. you blame it on your "reflexes."

if its not, then quit, because apparently you can't fix it anyways.

[Nick B]

If you want anyone to reply to these threads seriously you better start making cliff notes. Im not gonna spend 10 minutes reading your post when I could be doing better things.

hes saying this:

I can't trick because me reflexes are too good and won't let me rotate.

[AlphaOmega]

hes saying this:

I can't trick because me reflexes are too good and won't let me rotate.

no, it is fear. the reason you can't over come it is because you deny being afraid. you blame it on your "reflexes."

if its not, then quit, because apparently you can't fix it anyways.

Damn it! I KNOW it's fear! But it's not the conscious kind! It's sub-conscious. That's what the self-preservation instinct is. It a fear the all animals have that protects them from harm. Suppose someone throws a punch to your face. Doesn't your head jerk back? That's a reflex action. It is supposed to protect you. But there is a difference between the conscious oh-shit-I-am-going-to-get-hurt fear, and the instinctual need of the body to protect itself.

My problem is that it is either abnormally strong in me, or I have honed it to the point that it kicks in very fast (with the stupid thing I have done). And I want to know if this was a problem with anyone else and if so, what they did to overcome it.

[Nick B]

or you think yours is better than everyone elses and use it as an excuse for why you cant do a trick. you think you're the only one that stalls the first time or first few times they try a trick? you're not. everyones scared when they try a new trick, and most of the time they bail because of it. thats what you're doing. its fear, and it is conscious. you think its unconsious because you've never had to force yourself to try purposely try something scary or that you think is potentially going to hurt you like doing a front flip or btwist.

no one here or anywhere can help you get over the fear of rotating. all we can do is tell you to stop blaming it on something out of your control.

[AlphaOmega]

or you think yours is better than everyone elses and use it as an excuse for why you cant do a trick. you think you're the only one that stalls the first time or first few times they try a trick? you're not. everyones scared when they try a new trick, and most of the time they bail because of it. thats what you're doing. its fear, and it is conscious. you think its unconsious because you've never had to force yourself to try purposely try something scary or that you think is potentially going to hurt you like doing a front flip or btwist.

no one here or anywhere can help you with that.

Look man, first, I have only been tricking for a month. Second I HAVE done a lot of scary things ('jackass' kind of scary things, jumping from stupid places, riding my bike like a maniac) and I have been hurt a lot of times. I have had 7 fractures (major and minor), torn my ankle ligament, needed stitches on my head etc.
As I said there is a difference between fear and reflex. Reflex, by their definition, are born from fear. Reflexes are not the matrix type (I see bullets and dodge them). Reflexes comes from the bodys knowledge that it's in a dangerous position and should do something about it. You touch a hot stove or a naked electrical wire. The sub-conscious fear will cause you to pull your hand back, even if the level of heat is bearable if you try. But are you 'afraid' to touch a little hot stove? You know it's not really dangerous, but the body doesn't want to. I have read about the fear that people freeze up before trying a trick. Dogen's site mentions that he stood in a field for 2 hours trying to muster up the courage for a gainer. I don't have that problem.

BTW, I WILL trick, and WILL achive the tricks I want. I am not making excuses, I am asking for advice, because all the fear related advice I have read is for conscious fear i.e. get a spotter, or get a mattress etc.

[AndyLeTerrible]

it's conscious. because I choose the front flip cause when I went to do the aerial, I kept on throwing my hands down and doing a dive cartwheel instead. So I decided that getting the front flip might help since they both involve jumping and rotating around your upper body. When I go to do the flips, as soon as I jump, my body automatically balls-up and I go into a forward roll. your subconscious doesn't know you are going to do a front flip, that's conscious. and by the sounds of it you are not even jumping up which is the technique for the front flip, you jump up! then tuck. you are just.. i guess, doing a little hop and doing a forward roll or landing on your back.
So what? are you saying your subconscious reflexes do not even let you do a high vertical jump? there's no danger in that. if your body did react subconsciously it would freak out when it realizes its upside down and you would come crashing down on your head or back or whatever, not when you do a vertical jump haha! It's conscious hence you freak out even before you even start

[Phil D]

its definatly FEAR, its what most noobs suffer from, your scared as you try an do tricks so mid air you bottle it an freak out ending in a bail. When i was learning to backflip i used to think to my self THIS IS FUCKING RIDICULOUS, I CANT EVEN CONTROL WHAT MY OWN BODY IS DOING! and id get pissed off an just throw it. So just visualise what your body will be doing and how you think its gona feel and then jus go for it.

[Nick B]

Look man, first, I have only been tricking for a month. Second I HAVE done a lot of scary things ('jackass' kind of scary things, jumping from stupid places, riding my bike like a maniac) and I have been hurt a lot of times. I have had 7 fractures (major and minor), torn my ankle ligament, needed stitches on my head etc.
As I said there is a difference between fear and reflex. Reflex, by their definition, are born from fear. Reflexes are not the matrix type (I see bullets and dodge them). Reflexes comes from the bodys knowledge that it's in a dangerous position and should do something about it. You touch a hot stove or a naked electrical wire. The sub-conscious fear will cause you to pull your hand back, even if the level of heat is bearable if you try. But are you 'afraid' to touch a little hot stove? You know it's not really dangerous, but the body doesn't want to. I have read about the fear that people freeze up before trying a trick. Dogen's site mentions that he stood in a field for 2 hours trying to muster up the courage for a gainer. I don't have that problem.

BTW, I WILL trick, and WILL achive the tricks I want. I am not making excuses, I am asking for advice, because all the fear related advice I have read is for conscious fear i.e. get a spotter, or get a mattress etc.


yes, im scared to touch a hot stove, and thats a consious fear, and if a wanted to, i could keep my hand there, not that i ever would. and freezing up before a trick and freezing in the middle of the trick are two different things. how long it takes you to decide to do a trick doesnt mean anything when you actually do try it.

look, you keep blaming your inability to trick on your "super-human reflexes", i dont give a shit, but dont ask for advice if the only reason you do it is to confirm your own beliefs in your own shit. theres no such thing as unconsious fear. its your consious self that decides whats dangerous and what isnt, and based on your consious decision, your body will do what it needs to to follow your commands.

people get spotters because they know they're going to get scared in the middle and freeze up, or get scared and tuck to soon, or whatever. they get a spotter because the spotter makes sure they dont get hurt until they can build enough confidence to try it on their own. you have no confidence, and you blame that on something that isnt there.

i'm done. this is just as bad as arguing religion.

[Inkrepid]

you tool. Go do some tricks and crash a bunch and youll stop being such a pansy.

[burgerguy09]

I don't know if I have good reflexes, or even what "good" reflexes can be defines as, but your probably right with the subconcious thing.
Also, from what I've read, it seems that, even if you have good reflexes, you lack body awareness. You don't seem to know where your body is (at least not conciously), so your not conciously controlling it. Learn where your body is at all times, from your toes to your head. Get control over it, you seem to be a slave to your body.
Try swimming. No joke. Swimming takes alot more body awareness then one would think. Its not as simple kicking and spinning your arms. There is alot to it. Trust me on this, I teach swim classes and I've been swimming since I was three.
When swimming, to swim efficiently, you need to know your toes are pointed, your legs are straight, your rotating in the water properly, how your hands enter the water, head placement, and how your fingers are positioned, as well as how your arms are, your body is straight, and more, and it changes for the different strokes. Its also good exercise.
Back to body awareness. Tricking takes body awareness. It takes awareness to pull off the trick. It then takes more awareness to make tricks look good, and change the look.
Think of your front flip. Lots of little things go into it. Your jumping form, when you begin to tuck, how you tuck, where your arms are when you tuck (are they above or below the knees) where is your head, where are you in your rotation, did you throw your arms with force, are your legs close together, are they close to your chest, etc. Its not as simple as jump and tuck.
So work on knowing where your body is. Think about it, when you walk, stretch, trick, and more.

[AlphaOmega]

yes, im scared to touch a hot stove, and thats a consious fear, and if a wanted to, i could keep my hand there, not that i ever would. and freezing up before a trick and freezing in the middle of the trick are two different things. how long it takes you to decide to do a trick doesnt mean anything when you actually do try it.

look, you keep blaming your inability to trick on your "super-human reflexes", i dont give a shit, but dont ask for advice if the only reason you do it is to confirm your own beliefs in your own shit. theres no such thing as unconsious fear. its your consious self that decides whats dangerous and what isnt, and based on your consious decision, your body will do what it needs to to follow your commands.

people get spotters because they know they're going to get scared in the middle and freeze up, or get scared and tuck to soon, or whatever. they get a spotter because the spotter makes sure they dont get hurt until they can build enough confidence to try it on their own. you have no confidence, and you blame that on something that isnt there.

i'm done. this is just as bad as arguing religion.

You just don't get it do you? I AGREE it's fear. And if you think there is no such thing as as sub-conscious fear, then you are absolutely WRONG.

And I never said anything about 'super-human reflexes'. I think I have better than an average man, but since most people here are trickers, I expect that they too will have better than average, and most certainly better than mine. I have seen samplers of trickers crashing and they whip around really fast and/or land is safer positions.

I have no spotter, no one to trick with, no equipment and you say that I have no confidence?

At least LoopingDragon gave some advice: "When i was learning to backflip i used to think to my self THIS IS FUCKING RIDICULOUS, I CANT EVEN CONTROL WHAT MY OWN BODY IS DOING". And that's what I happening to me. I don't know if this happens to anyone else or not. I haven't seen any thread about this, only about fear in going into a move.

[Nick B]

I have no spotter, no one to trick with, no equipment and you say that I have no confidence?

thats exactly what im saying. you're a typical "poor me" kind of person. plus, you said you had a matress, which is more than most of us had when we started.

[AlphaOmega]

I don't know if I have good reflexes, or even what "good" reflexes can be defines as, but your probably right with the subconcious thing.
Also, from what I've read, it seems that, even if you have good reflexes, you lack body awareness. You don't seem to know where your body is (at least not conciously), so your not conciously controlling it. Learn where your body is at all times, from your toes to your head. Get control over it, you seem to be a slave to your body.

Hmm, you might be right. I don't have a problem with upper-body awareness, but usually I have no idea where my legs are going. I noticed this while trying simple handstands. I have control what my upperbody is doing, but while doing so my legs usually fall in weird positions. I can control macro movements, like straight or bent etc. but subtle changes elude me. I was thinking of working on these standing on my hands (against a wall) and doing some leg exercises. Think that might help?

[AndyLeTerrible]

You just don't get it do you? I AGREE it's fear. And if you think there is no such thing as as sub-conscious fear, then you are absolutely WRONG.

And I never said anything about 'super-human reflexes'. I think I have better than an average man, but since most people here are trickers, I expect that they too will have better than average, and most certainly better than mine. I have seen samplers of trickers crashing and they whip around really fast and/or land is safer positions.

I have no spotter, no one to trick with, no equipment and you say that I have no confidence?

At least LoopingDragon gave some advice: "When i was learning to backflip i used to think to my self THIS IS FUCKING RIDICULOUS, I CANT EVEN CONTROL WHAT MY OWN BODY IS DOING". And that's what I happening to me. I don't know if this happens to anyone else or not. I haven't seen any thread about this, only about fear in going into a move.

how about you reply to my comment haha

your subconscious doesn't know you are going to do a front flip, that's conscious. and by the sounds of it you are not even jumping up which is the technique for the front flip, you jump up! then tuck. you are just.. i guess, doing a little hop and doing a forward roll or landing on your back.
So what? are you saying your subconscious reflexes do not even let you do a high vertical jump? there's no danger in that. if your body did react subconsciously it would freak out when it realizes its upside down and you would come crashing down on your head or back or whatever, not when you do a vertical jump haha! It's conscious hence you freak out even before you even start

and for simple terms..you accidentally put your hand on hot stove without realizing.. your body reacts by taking it off straight away, that is subconcious. if straight after the incident of putting your hand on the stove by accident you decided to put it on purposely and took it off that would be conscious. i shouldnt even need to apply that to your attempts at tricks it's obvious.. putting your hand on the stove is your descison, and if you freak out it's conscios and it would be in attempting a front flip

[AlphaOmega]

thats exactly what im saying. you're a typical "poor me" kind of person. plus, you said you had a matress, which is more than most of us had when we started.


Damn you are just going to turn everything I say into a negative statement, aren't you? I wasn't the one who brought up the confidence thing. By listing those I was only trying to say that pulling things out of your ass, saying that 'you have no confidence' without any basis was wrong.

[Serial]

Just keep going for tricks and crash. Like on aerials, force your hands not to touch the ground, you'll get over the fear, subconscious or not. Get the technique down and keep going for the move. If you cant do that, you arent trying hard enough.

[Nick B]

Damn you are just going to turn everything I say into a negative statement, aren't you? I wasn't the one who brought up the confidence thing. By listing those I was only trying to say that pulling things out of your ass, saying that 'you have no confidence' without any basis was wrong.

ugh. okay, this is truly my last post in this thread. if you can't see what i was describing when i said confidence two posts ago, then i gave you way too much credit. all of your arguments are empty. seriously, you havent made a single good argument defending your postition since i said you were full of crap.

and when i said you're a poor me kind of person, i wasn't only referring to what was quoted. this whole thing reeks of you feeling sorry for yourself, that your reflexes are too good and now you can't trick.

and yes im very good at being pessimistic, especially on an internet forum full of people i dont know.

[AlphaOmega]

@AndyLeTerrible: if you mean this comment:
your subconscious doesn't know you are going to do a front flip, that's conscious. and by the sounds of it you are not even jumping up which is the technique for the front flip, you jump up! then tuck. you are just.. i guess, doing a little hop and doing a forward roll or landing on your back.
So what? are you saying your subconscious reflexes do not even let you do a high vertical jump? there's no danger in that. if your body did react subconsciously it would freak out when it realizes its upside down and you would come crashing down on your head or back or whatever, not when you do a vertical jump haha! It's conscious hence you freak out even before you even start

I wrote about this in the main post. I was initially not jumping into the move, just hopping and rolling. By later when I jumped high, I went up in the air, and landed in a handstand.

Also, when doing a trick, at least the initial stages, I find that there is practially no time for concious thought. The move in over, even if you bail, before you know it. I don't know if that happens to everyone or not, but it certainly happens to me. When I was intially working on my front handsprings, I was just flipping over, cause the move was over before I could consiously think about pushing from the ground. When you bail, it is always from the sub-concious, cause no one wants to bail, do they? The body automatically tries to protect it self. You maybe afraid when you bail, but the source of bailing is self protective reflex.

[burgerguy09]

Hmm, you might be right. I don't have a problem with upper-body awareness, but usually I have no idea where my legs are going. I noticed this while trying simple handstands. I have control what my upperbody is doing, but while doing so my legs usually fall in weird positions. I can control macro movements, like straight or bent etc. but subtle changes elude me. I was thinking of working on these standing on my hands (against a wall) and doing some leg exercises. Think that might help?
Any form of non-harmful exercise is helpful to any sport. For your body awarness, just think more about what it is doing. If your doing handstands on a wall, this has to do with improving handstands and balance. The best way to improve body awareness is simply to think about what it is doing at all times. When you walk, eat, sleep, go to the bathroom, stare at the sun, or go on a bloody, murderous rampage because you just found out santa clause is nothing but a lie, Barney was a child molester, and that apple you ate was really a candle, and you can no longer see anything other than a red rage...









Sorry, ranting for a second. Seriously though, just keep in mind what your body is doing to really improve body awareness*. Doing things by reflex is fine, its what keeps us alive, but you should know what you are doing with your own body most of the time, even when you do stuff by reflex.





Burgerguy takes no responsibility for any injuries you may sustain while improving body awareness. In fact, burgerguy is not a trained body awareness professional and cannot 100% garentee this will work. Burgerguy speaks only of past experience. Burgerguy enjoys speaking in third person, and is open to any arguments to his advice, or compliments on his avatar. Burgerguy refuses to get in a political discussion over Bush, Iraq, Mars, or Fish.

[AlphaOmega]

ugh. okay, this is truly my last post in this thread. if you can't see what i was describing when i said confidence two posts ago, then i gave you way too much credit. all of your arguments are empty. seriously, you havent made a single good argument defending your postition since i said you were full of crap.

and when i said you're a poor me kind of person, i wasn't only referring to what was quoted. this whole thing reeks of you feeling sorry for yourself, that your reflexes are too good and now you can't trick.

and yes im very good at being pessimistic, especially on an internet forum full of people i dont know.

Fine, I am full of crap, I am a poor-me kind of person, and yes, you have been giving me too much credit. Does that make you happy? If so, good, I agree.

Anyway, I am absolutely new to tricking, and I don't know what goes on. I have not done anything like this so maybe this is something everyone goes through. If I offended someone, my bad, I only wanted advice from people who have experience.

BTW, as I said earlier, I am not going to quit, not matter what it takes. I just want to know if there is a fast way of getting over this handicap.

[Serial]

If you landed in a handstand, you didnt tuck. KEEP GOING FOR IT! Your technique will get better. If you have a mattress, there shouldnt be a problem going for it. Sounds like you just arent committing.

[AndyLeTerrible]

@AndyLeTerrible: if you mean this comment:


I wrote about this in the main post. I was initially not jumping into the move, just hopping and rolling. By later when I jumped high, I went up in the air, and landed in a handstand.

Also, when doing a trick, at least the initial stages, I find that there is practially no time for concious thought. The move in over, even if you bail, before you know it. I don't know if that happens to everyone or not, but it certainly happens to me. When I was intially working on my front handsprings, I was just flipping over, cause the move was over before I could consiously think about pushing from the ground. When you bail, it is always from the sub-concious, cause no one wants to bail, do they? The body automatically tries to protect it self. You maybe afraid when you bail, but the source of bailing is self protective reflex.
A front handspring is an entirely conscious thing. As is any trick. When you bail, it is always from the sub-concious, cause no one wants to bail, do they?That is just ridiculous haha. byebye

[shengoikee]

haha this is weird....

edit: so it's my sub-concious thoughts stopping me from doing a double cork!

[TartanPajamas]

Ok, shut the FUCK up! OF COURSE it's subconscious! That's normal! Get a fucking spotter, and no, I'm not gonna bother reading your response, or fully reading any of your previous posts. Keep your posts to a three paragraph maximum, or most of us won't bother (unless you're Haime or something, which you are definitely not).

[Skilzat85X]

It's not subconscious as much as it's normal conscious, though.

Subconscious is like, doesn't even have anything to do with it. Your conscious physically overpowers your subconscious when you're awake. So really now.

It's like in this one video I watched. Your body, REFLEXIVELY, wants to stay as close to the ground as possible, and wants to do this and that and make sure it's safe. The only reason in reality that it knows that back flips are scary is because that is the perception that you have built into your brain throughout your entire life.
When I first learned to back flip, my subconscious didn't just click and say "well ok now I'm going to completely change my outlook on this, for i am the mighty all ruling all controlling subconscious." No WAY! It's all conscious, it's all your perception that is affecting the way your body does whatever.

To that end, PRACTICE YOU NIGG!

[Triso]

you have week reflexes if you can't control them... and this thread is stupid of course it's conscious fear... unconscious fear isn't real.

[TartanPajamas]

Back when I first learned to backflip, I lost it again, even though I knew I could do it. It was completely illogical, which leads me to believe that it's more subconscious.

[SickPanda]

by "good reflexes" i think you mean "fearful and weak-willed"

it's all about COMMITMENT. you can't just "jump and go" like some of your posts seem to be saying. you set most basic tricks up completely in the first instant, but you have to maintain the motion. you have to jump straight up, maintain your jump, then tuck, and maintain your tuck, then consciously land. you can't just hop, throw your arms forward, and expect to do a brilliant, wonderful, beautiful front flip.

the reason you think it's reflexes is cuz in midair you lose your commitment, and let your reflexes take over. nothing to be ashamed of, it can be very hard to stay committed. but it's not anything that makes you special or merits a thread filled with page-long posts, either.

[DarkXacreD]

Stop your whining and just overcome your "reflexes" or fear or whatever you say it is.

It's not as hard as people think to change the way your body reacts (or many other things like personality, outlook on life, etc.) if you know how to do it. Just get a reliable mat, and then wrap/tuck as hard as you can for as long as you can, and just get over yourself. There's no drug that you can take or meditation method we can recommend; just go out and crash some tricks (preferably in a relatively safe environment, though).

And remember: There is no spoon.

[Skilzat85X]

you have week reflexes if you can't control them... and this thread is stupid of course it's conscious fear... unconscious fear isn't real.

I'm pretty sure that I'm consciously and unconsciously afraid of ugly chicks.

[iEatRAW]

here's how I improve: try with something that takes away all the fear(like some mat or some snow), try and crash, try better and still crash, sleep, bam I gained experience and a new skill -> how to crash the move yay ! Now that I know how to crash it, I'll try and improve it time after time ! I can now crash my backflip consciously even though I know it hurts ! mwahaha

[DarkXacreD]

dude, I just told him that!

[WilliamT]

I hate this thread