View Full Version : Side split concerns
Pesante64
Jan-18-07, 08:08 PM
Hey guys, I've been hearing some interesting things about isometric side splits lately. Apparently, men who can do a full 180 degree split experience complications down the road, sometimes as severe as hip replacement surgery.
I'm told the reason for this is the male bone structure. Females have wider hips than guys do, so it's not as much a problem for them, but on most guys the pelvis doesn't actually allow the femur (sp?) to move in that direction that extensively. In order for your leg to stretch the full 90 degrees, part of your pelvis gets ground away a bit, which is detrimental in the long run...for obvious reasons.
As I said, I've only heard people saying this stuff, and I have no knowledge of how credible the information is...I just wanted to put it out there and see what you guys might have to say.
I imagine if your technique was crap this might happen... Can't say I've got any conclusive information in either direction, but this is the first I've heard of this happening.
ryanlq
Jan-18-07, 09:14 PM
ooh, this is scary!
Papa Lazarou
Jan-19-07, 12:06 AM
I expect stories of damaged hips come from people with bad training practices, ie overtraining, especially since you mention isometric stretches. Also, I think the tests of flexibility potential are scientifically designed (or proven anyway) to account for anatomical barriers. In the side split test, the leg is in the same position as it would be in an actual side split (just one leg at a time). Pretty much only the nervous system stops someone from doing a full side split after they have done the test.
If you don't know what I'm talking about with the split tests, they're in Juji's flexibility section I think.
In the side split test, the leg is in the same position as it would be in an actual side split (just one leg at a time). Pretty much only the nervous system stops someone from doing a full side split after they have done the test.
this test sucks.
it's only there to motivate people.
when you do this test the angle between your hip and your femur is NOT the same as in a full sidesplit.
in the test your hip naturally tilts to the side of the lifted leg.
you can only REALLY pass this test, if you already can sidesplit very well.
Sakanem
Jan-19-07, 01:30 AM
this test sucks.
it's only there to motivate people.
when you do this test the angle between your hip and your femur is NOT the same as in a full sidesplit.
in the test your hip naturally tilts to the side of the lifted leg.
you can only REALLY pass this test, if you already can sidesplit very well.
exactly :cool:
Papa Lazarou
Jan-19-07, 03:58 AM
What the? Firstly what did that post have to do with the topic? Secondly what evidence do you have for the test sucking? And before you ask, my source is Stretching Scientifically in which the alignment of joints is well explained (with anatomical diagrams) and well researched.
Pesante64: If your pelvis was being ground away for you to achieve the side split, I'm fairly certain that you'd know all about it (feel it that is). If the thing stopping you from the split was bones and not flexibility of muscles, you'd feel the difference.
What the? Firstly what did that post have to do with the topic? Secondly what evidence do you have for the test sucking? And before you ask, my source is Stretching Scientifically in which the alignment of joints is well explained (with anatomical diagrams) and well researched.
the post had nothing to do with the topic.
i just felt posting it because you mentioned the test.
and yes, i know the book and the anatomy of the hip.
just try it.
do the test and be objective to your hip/femur - angle. you will see, that you will turn your hip to the side of the lifted leg.
the nervous systems stops us from doing sidesplits. thats right.
but it also stops us from REALLY passing the test.
wynnema
Jan-19-07, 05:50 AM
this test sucks.
it's only there to motivate people.
when you do this test the angle between your hip and your femur is NOT the same as in a full sidesplit.
in the test your hip naturally tilts to the side of the lifted leg.
you can only REALLY pass this test, if you already can sidesplit very well.
yeah ok we should listen to you over one of the most respected experts on flexiblity. :tongue:
show me just ONE person, who can not do sidesplits but who can REALLY pass the test ( really means, without turning hip to the side ).
i don't say that kurz does not know what he is writing about.
but in my option he just "invented" this test to motivate people.
What fucking test? GCSE's? Driving test?
What fucking test? GCSE's? Driving test?
http://trickstutorials.com/images/s147.jpg
Side split test
Rest one leg on a structure like so... Keep your hips and your raised leg in a straight line. This is the half split position, if you can do it on both sides you have proved to yourself that your hip joints and their ligaments are not preventing you from doing the side split. There are no muscles that run from one leg to the other, if you can do this with both legs one at a time, why can't you do it with both legs at the same time? Huh? HUH?!
juji has it from the book "stretching scientifically" from thomas kurz.
edit: and here you see.
juji CAN do sidesplits, but he tilts his hip in this picture. so he did not "PASS" the test.
Sakanem
Jan-20-07, 03:16 AM
Juji's upper body isn't perfectly vertical as it would be in a side split.
Everyone can "pass" this test by leaning back more or less.
Hey guys, I've been hearing some interesting things about isometric side splits lately. Apparently, men who can do a full 180 degree split experience complications down the road, sometimes as severe aship replacement surgery.
I'm told the reason for this is the male bone structure. Females have wider hips than guys do, so it's not as much a problem for them, but on most guys the pelvis doesn't actually allow the femur (sp?) to move in that direction that extensively. In order for your leg to stretch the full 90 degrees, part of your pelvis gets ground away a bit, which is detrimental in the long run...for obvious reasons.
As I said, I've only heard people saying this stuff, and I have no knowledge of how credible the information is...I just wanted to put it out there and see what you guys might have to say.
Man this scares me so muchhh... I can sidesplit and... I couldn't tell since WHEN, but when I kick over HeadHeight and start BRINGING MY LEG DOWN TO ITS ORIGINAL place wich is on the ground, I can hear a "POC" happening near of my Femur/Hip insertion point. It doesn't hurt, but I can feeeeel it and believe me, this is not a funny feeling. I sometimes think it is my hip and femur Bones who are knocking on each other and by kicking very often, there could be kind of an erosion phenomenon happening by the knocks ...
BUT, it might be a Growing shit... I'm only 15 and I know some disproportions of the bone may happen during intensive periods of growth. I also noticed my kicks are less powerful.
Anybody know the real answer ?
Papa Lazarou
Jan-21-07, 12:08 AM
Mick: I have the same popping somewhat (when bringing the leg back from an axe kick and similar movements) and I cannot yet do the side split. Therefore the popping wasn't caused by whatever you did to get the side split.
For me the popping started when I was drilling b-kicks, not that I noticed it while doing the move of course, I could only tell with axe kicks and so on. I got the popping in the non-landing leg (which is bent at the hip and then extended like in an axe kick).
I've since read about this specific popping in several places and I think it comes from tightness of a particular muscle, which in my case was caused by chronic fatigue from overuse (too many b-kicks). Right now I'm trying to fix it by resting the muscle (no b-kicks, or anything else which causes the popping) and by stretching often. Before now I'd pretty much neglected it in my daily stretching.
The good news is that this popping is almost always harmless (though annoying) unless there's pain with it. Also, it can apparently spontaneously fix itself.
One more thing: the popping is unlikely to cause wear on the joints involved since the sound comes from a ligament sliding across a protrusion of bone and not from two bones grinding against each other.
If you're still worried look at the last three headings here (http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:DQOwi-ZZCgcJ:iach.amedd.army.mil/departments/phyTherapy/pdf/SNAPPING%2520HIP%2520SYNDROME.pdf+psoas+popping+hi ps&hl=en&gl=au&ct=clnk&cd=10)
About the test:
Whether it's crap or not, the thing that matters is if the hip is damaged in the process of gaining the ability to side split. I think if damage like what the first post talks about were being caused, it would feel distict from a normal stretch. In other words you'd feel things in the joint rubbing on each other, and not feel a stretch. It should be obvious whether the barrier to the split is the flexibility of muscles or bone structure. Stories of hip replacements and so on probably come from people severely over training with balistic stretches and so on. They may also be from those with an unusual bone structure which doesn't allow a side split, or their hip problems may have nothing to do with the split at all.
Also, Tom Kurz is an obvious example of a man who has been able to side split for many years and I doubt that he has caused himself that sort of severe, permanent damage through training.
everyone can past that test but not everyone can do the splits yet.
[QUOTE=Papa Lazarou;395751]Mick: I have the same popping somewhat (when bringing the leg back from an axe kick and similar movements) and I cannot yet do the side split. Therefore the popping wasn't caused by whatever you did to get the side split.
For me the popping started when I was drilling b-kicks, not that I noticed it while doing the move of course, I could only tell with axe kicks and so on. I got the popping in the non-landing leg (which is bent at the hip and then extended like in an axe kick).
I've since read about this specific popping in several places and I think it comes from tightness of a particular muscle, which in my case was caused by chronic fatigue from overuse (too many b-kicks). Right now I'm trying to fix it by resting the muscle (no b-kicks, or anything else which causes the popping) and by stretching often. Before now I'd pretty much neglected it in my daily stretching.
The good news is that this popping is almost always harmless (though annoying) unless there's pain with it. Also, it can apparently spontaneously fix itself.
One more thing: the popping is unlikely to cause wear on the joints involved since the sound comes from a ligament sliding across a protrusion of bone and not from two bones grinding against each other.
If you're still worried look at the last three headings here (http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:DQOwi-ZZCgcJ:iach.amedd.army.mil/departments/phyTherapy/pdf/SNAPPING%2520HIP%2520SYNDROME.pdf+psoas+popping+hi ps&hl=en&gl=au&ct=clnk&cd=10)
The Love I have for you will never end.
THANK YOU SO MUCHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.