The transmogrification of tricking into a lame ass sport.

[Xenome]

There seems to have been a split somewhere, and I'm not exactly sure when... It was like a vile poison that started to spread through new tricksters. Where is the martial arts in tricking now days? Obviously, this is a rant. If you don't see what I see then don't read below. I always check youtube and various other sites for new tricking videos once per week. However, over the months I've noticed how lame the tricks are getting. It seems that people forget that tricking spawned from martial arts, and are just in it for the spins and girly cheerleading. There are no power behind the moves I see now days. You wanna see a good tricking video? Watch this shit:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GOMc9xFrOBE
(Look at his 540 at around 1:00) That shit has power behind it.

I put the next video here (even though it's fake and not tricking really) because of the power behind their moves... Tricking is about combat... Combat is about power, speed, and accuracy.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8280c85d09

The power, speed, and accuracy of these:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aYW6MyFPz-g

This just because it's fucken badass lol
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_bGqnK0mFq4

And this one
http://youtube.com/watch?v=i9CsFSGq2Ao

And this one
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xf1kFEUF-uU

ULN9V
The answer is somewhere in this thread. Up Top. Happy searching.

Anyway, I digress.

Some of the older videos I used to watch (of tricking) were good, but the good videos today are far and few between. First off, they trick in a gym. Everyone knows how much extra height you get on their spring floors. Train in the gym, don't make your video in the gym or else it loses some of it's value. Also, it seems that people posting videos has made the retards post their shit videos, which makes other people post their shit videos, and so on. Tip: DON'T POST YOUR SHIT VIDEOS... WAIT TILL YOU ARE SOMEWHAT GOOD.

EXAMPLE:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dFotE164Nvs
WTF IS THAT? WHY THE FUCK DID YOU POST THAT?

However, This next one is good:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-Y1lqwvGcwk

So, as a conclusion, I will recap over what is missing from todays tricking videos:
Skill, Power, Page, 17, Usefulness in combat (wtf is spining real fast going to do unless your holding a weapon?), speed... everything!

This is what most the tricking videos I see today feel like:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UFuKDW5UwDk

Oh well. Hopefully this might stop at least one or two shitty videos from getting made.

[Btw, I am a MA Tricker but I haven't made any samplers yet because I don't consider myself good enough.] NOTE: Making a very short video (less than 30 seconds) to get pointers on from people and making a shitty full length sampler are completely different.

[Fanya]

So you're lambasting kids who are trying hard and putting out [in your opinion] "shit" videos? But then you go and say you don't think you're good enough yourself to put out a vid. How's this... if you don't like a samp, don't watch it!

Your whole post is just a big whine.

[Psychostick]

Tricks aren't for combat, they're tricks.

[Skilzat85X]

Tricking is about combat
You're a complete tard. The next time you fight somebody with a boxcutter or a 900, you let me know.

Seriously the only person I know who would be competent enough to actually even try to use tricks in a fight would be sesshoumaru. Even pro martial artists would probably stick to pure martial (meaning MILITARY) techniques to fight.

[saunders]

tricking is 33% twists, 33% flips, and 33% kicks
but imo tricking is 33% flips,twists and kicks and 67% combo's!

you say you consider yourself not good enough, well stfu then, if you are not good enough it's rather stupid to make posts like these. you think you can just come here and tell everyone (including the veterans) how to trick? good introduction to the forum mate.



god i hate threads like this one

[thereid]

Seriously the only person I know who would be competent enough to actually even try to use tricks in a fight would be sesshoumaru. .I was just thinking that.

[Konnar]

I didn't see the word "tricking" in your "example".
Stop whining.

[Phil D]

You wanna see a good tricking video? Watch this shit:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GOMc9xFrOBE
(Look at his 540 at around 1:00) That shit has power behind it.

haha thats not even a tricking video u idiot.

[Nuh-Goo-Yen]

Okay... the examples you gave under "good tricking video" aren't even samplers... so theres no point in posting those if you're complaining about people's "crappy samplers"

Also... this is a community, so people are allowed to post their videos if they want to. If you want to help, give constructive criticism, instead of complaining. Don't be a sampler nazi.

One more thing...


So, as a conclusion, I will recap over what is missing from todays tricking videos:
Skill, Power, Usefulness in combat (wtf is spining real fast going to do unless your holding a weapon?), speed... everything!

Dude, you already lost right there, I'm sorry. Now, I'll always agree that tricking has its roots in martial arts... but that right there is just stupid

[Rayzer]

ok I won't flame you very hard, because I know already that there are a lot of people who will...

I think the in your eyes "crap" video's you are mentioning are made by people who may have just started tricking. It seems quite obvious to me that someone with no MA background might not have the "power" in his tricks yet right from the start.

Dude, Tricking is NOT about "combat":smile: That is a really wrong point you got there. If you write down these kinds of remarks, you automatically lose the arguement .

"Crap" people often make video's of themselfs to let people see them and tell them what they are doing wrong so they can improve and eventually perfect their tricks and to make them full of power!!! raaarrgghhhh!

About the gym tricking: Not everybody lives in a place where the grass and the weather are always perfect, so they look for alternatives to still be able to practise the sport they love and to improve in it. But I do have to agree with you: vids with only gym footage aren't exactly my favourites either...

closing comment:
the fact that you don't have a vid of yourself takes away your right to flame other peoples video's in the way you did in your first post, you should be ashamed of yourself! :tongue:

[Trixter-Mike]

Erhm...
Why did you use a starting trickster's sampler for the bad example and why did you use one of the best trickers as the good example.
THat's like comparing a Smart to a huge mercedes..

And above that.. Why do you watch samplers you don't like?

And the examples you gave are fucking MOVIES man!
Do you know how many times a scene like that can be remade to make it perfect? -.-

[Cicero]

There seems to have been a split somewhere, and I'm not exactly sure when... It was like a vile poison that started to spread through new tricksters. Where is the martial arts in tricking now days? Obviously, this is a rant. If you don't see what I see then don't read below. I always check youtube and various other sites for new tricking videos once per week. However, over the months I've noticed how lame the tricks are getting. It seems that people forget that tricking spawned from martial arts, and are just in it for the spins and girly cheerleading. There are no power behind the moves I see now days. You wanna see a good tricking video? Watch this shit:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GOMc9xFrOBE
(Look at his 540 at around 1:00) That shit has power behind it.

I put the next video here (even though it's fake and not tricking really) because of the power behind their moves... Tricking is about combat... Combat is about power, speed, and accuracy.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8280c85d09

The power, speed, and accuracy of these:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aYW6MyFPz-g

This just because it's fucken badass lol
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_bGqnK0mFq4

And this one
http://youtube.com/watch?v=i9CsFSGq2Ao

And this one
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xf1kFEUF-uU


Anyway, I digress.

Some of the older videos I used to watch (of tricking) were good, but the good videos today are far and few between. First off, they trick in a gym. Everyone knows how much extra height you get on their spring floors. Train in the gym, don't make your video in the gym or else it loses some of it's value. Also, it seems that people posting videos has made the retards post their shit videos, which makes other people post their shit videos, and so on. Tip: DON'T POST YOUR SHIT VIDEOS... WAIT TILL YOU ARE SOMEWHAT GOOD.

EXAMPLE:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dFotE164Nvs
WTF IS THAT? WHY THE FUCK DID YOU POST THAT?

However, This next one is good:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-Y1lqwvGcwk

So, as a conclusion, I will recap over what is missing from todays tricking videos:
Skill, Power, Usefulness in combat (wtf is spining real fast going to do unless your holding a weapon?), speed... everything!

This is what most the tricking videos I see today feel like:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UFuKDW5UwDk

Oh well. Hopefully this might stop at least one or two shitty videos from getting made.

[Btw, I am a MA Tricker but I haven't made any samplers yet because I don't consider myself good enough.] NOTE: Making a very short video (less than 30 seconds) to get pointers on from people and making a shitty full length sampler are completely different.

I am Jack's complete lack of intelligence.

[Matt R]

he only has one post, eitther he is an idiotic n00b or he has a real account and was too afriad to post this bullshit under it.

[Jon P]

he only has one post, eitther he is an idiotic n00b or he has a real account and was too afriad to post this bullshit under it.

It was actually me. :bandit:

[shengoikee]

[Btw, I am a MA Tricker but I haven't made any samplers yet because I don't consider myself good enough.]

we can all tell you suck

[Aznjumpkick]

dammit jon p! ur so rude! eff u!

[Jon P]

dammit jon p! ur so rude! eff u!

SooOOOoooorrrryyy.
I just hate these little gym bratz with their flips and twists!! Learn how to kick!!! In a dojo!!!! Or else your sampler doesnt count!!!!!!




...!!!!!

[Nick B]

jon, didnt you work today? and isnt youtube blocked at your work = P

[Jon P]

jon, didnt you work today? and isnt youtube blocked at your work = P

shhhhh. lol

fine, it wasnt me!

[Nick B]

that first video is pretty sick though hahah.

[Jon P]

I havnt seen it and and I didnt even read the post. lol

[Nick B]

I havnt seen it and and I didnt even read the post. lol

hahah.

while i do disagree with most of the post, i do think that most people should focus more on kicks than they do. myself included.

[erufukami]

Haha... tricking meant for combat... haha... wow.

[super skills]

hahahahaha, how is shoalin wushu vs tae kwon do tricking?

"tricking is for combat" what the fuck are you smoking?

whats wrong with non pro trickers making samplers, if only pros made vids there would be like only 10 tricksters making vids. anyway non pro samlers can be good, for instance juji's Green memory sampler. Green memory may not have had the best tricks but i think it rules, it is funny.

i would just like to finish off by saying.... Xenome you suck so much ass that you cannot help but talk shit, you are a whinning girly man and you don't know shit about tricking. I don't want to finish on something so negative... so good job making an interesting thread, really good job :)

[TartanPajamas]

He's right about one thing, there are a lot of shitty samplers coming out these days.

He's wrong about everything else.

[Jason6377]

the last vid was gaymax

[brandon904]

only read the first post, not the rest of the thread.
anyways, xenome. That was like. an extremely bad post.

There are seriously few times in your life that hitting the "new topic" button with a serious thought in mind is actually a good idea.

so next time just shut up

[DarkXacreD]

This thread has inspired me to buy the Equilibrium DVD as soon as I can, and maybe borrow/download/rent that Korean movie.

------------------

The "shit" tricking video wasn't too bad. They needed some work on their kicks but apart from that it was pretty good.

Then again, if you're gonna compare them to Steve Terada, it's like "c'mon..."

[Flowers]

Xenome, post a vid of yourself.

I do disagree with you as well.

[brandon904]

This thread has inspired me to buy the Equilibrium DVD as soon as I can...


I bought the dvd the same day I rented it because it was literally love at first sight. I've rewatched it god knows how many times in the past 4 years

[Flowers]

Thats the most underated sleeper movie ever

[sesshoumaru]

Xenome...I completely understand what you're trying to say, but I disagree with what you said. Yes, besides looking dope, technique & power should be the main focus of MA Tricking. However, the majority of the tricking community is consisted of teenagers and young men who do not have the martial arts experience display such prowess. Even those who have martial arts experience have difficulty tricking.

Tricking is not easy, there are several dimensions to tricking: Kicking, Spinning (vert.), Twisting (horiz.), Flipping, Inverts (incomplete somersaults), and within those these become important: technique, style, power, control, and balance. Regardless of how good you are, you are going to be comparitively weak at something. In one way or another...everyone is a noob!!!

Also...just because a person tricks in a gym, doesn't mean that their skills aren't "authentic". The important thing about a gymnasium is that it offers a way for you to trick safely, as apposed to tricking on grass or gravel. The only thing that makes tricking in a gym bad, is if the trickers are taking too much advantage of the plyo...and if they do, it's their perogative!

Personally, I love to trick in the gym, but it doesn't take anything away from my skills on grass (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycntO5tAfmI). I actually learned all of my tricks, including the Double Back; excluding the Double Arabian on grass & concrete. When you look at this sampler, do I jump any higher on plyo than I do on grass? No, not really...

You need to remember that not everybody's post is for your entertainment...every sampler is not intended to rock your socks off! Many people post samplers to set a "marker" that they can shoot to overcome in the next 3 months or so.

[Skilzat85X]

Haha dang. The only other time I saw Sessh on grass was the G-Dongs front yard samplers. Excellent!

[Flowers]

This thread was talking about human tricksters

You're a god damn demon

[saunders]

I actually learned all of my tricks, including the Double Back; excluding the Double Arabian on grass & concrete.
double arabian wtf? haha

and i agree with towels, you are not a human

[DarkXacreD]

You need to remember that not everybody's post is for your entertainment...every sampler is not intended to rock your socks off! Many people post samplers to set a "marker" that they can shoot to overcome in the next 3 months or so.


yeah just look at my samplers. XD

[aUs_tKd]

There seems to have been a split somewhere, and I'm not exactly sure when... It was like a vile poison that started to spread through new tricksters. Where is the martial arts in tricking now days? Obviously, this is a rant. If you don't see what I see then don't read below. I always check youtube and various other sites for new tricking videos once per week. However, over the months I've noticed how lame the tricks are getting. It seems that people forget that tricking spawned from martial arts, and are just in it for the spins and girly cheerleading. There are no power behind the moves I see now days. You wanna see a good tricking video? Watch this shit:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GOMc9xFrOBE
(Look at his 540 at around 1:00) That shit has power behind it.

I put the next video here (even though it's fake and not tricking really) because of the power behind their moves... Tricking is about combat... Combat is about power, speed, and accuracy.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8280c85d09

The power, speed, and accuracy of these:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aYW6MyFPz-g

This just because it's fucken badass lol
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_bGqnK0mFq4

And this one
http://youtube.com/watch?v=i9CsFSGq2Ao

And this one
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xf1kFEUF-uU


Anyway, I digress.

Some of the older videos I used to watch (of tricking) were good, but the good videos today are far and few between. First off, they trick in a gym. Everyone knows how much extra height you get on their spring floors. Train in the gym, don't make your video in the gym or else it loses some of it's value. Also, it seems that people posting videos has made the retards post their shit videos, which makes other people post their shit videos, and so on. Tip: DON'T POST YOUR SHIT VIDEOS... WAIT TILL YOU ARE SOMEWHAT GOOD.

EXAMPLE:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dFotE164Nvs
WTF IS THAT? WHY THE FUCK DID YOU POST THAT?

However, This next one is good:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-Y1lqwvGcwk

So, as a conclusion, I will recap over what is missing from todays tricking videos:
Skill, Power, Usefulness in combat (wtf is spining real fast going to do unless your holding a weapon?), speed... everything!

This is what most the tricking videos I see today feel like:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UFuKDW5UwDk

Oh well. Hopefully this might stop at least one or two shitty videos from getting made.

[Btw, I am a MA Tricker but I haven't made any samplers yet because I don't consider myself good enough.] NOTE: Making a very short video (less than 30 seconds) to get pointers on from people and making a shitty full length sampler are completely different.


................................-_-........-_-.......... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah ahahaahahaaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!! ok, ok im done hahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahaahaha heheeh usefulness in combat hahahahahaha!!! ahh thats better thanks 4 the thread :wink:

[Shaolin.dk]

I agree with him that people should use more kicks these days, try to train on concrete and grass as much as possible.
Nothing but punches and lowkicks are effective on the street!

[sesshoumaru]

In all honesty, I've KO'd people with tricks before...though it's not as effective as basic/contemporary techniques, it can be used. Illusion Twist, Jacknife, Boxcutter, Hyperhook, Webster-axe, X-Out, C900, Envergado, Raiz, and Pop 720 Double are all moves I've used in street fights, and they've connected pretty cleanly...so it's not like it couldn't happen, cause I do it almost everytime.

Note: You have to be really strategic and clever to hit someone with these things. I can only do it because I have years & years of training under by belt, and I know what I'm doing!

Maybe I'll post some examplers in the future showing how to set an opponent up for getting hit with various tricks...

[Konnar]

You are a branling demon.

[Shaolin.dk]

That most have been retards u were fighting, if u KO'ed with an X-out:tongue:

[shengoikee]

In all honesty, I've KO'd people with tricks before...though it's not as effective as basic/contemporary techniques, it can be used. Illusion Twist, Jacknife, Boxcutter, Hyperhook, Webster-axe, X-Out, C900, Envergado, Raiz, and Pop 720 Double are all moves I've used in street fights, and they've connected pretty cleanly...so it's not like it couldn't happen, cause I do it almost everytime.

Note: You have to be really strategic and clever to hit someone with these things. I can only do it because I have years & years of training under by belt, and I know what I'm doing!

Maybe I'll post some examplers in the future showing how to set an opponent up for getting hit with various tricks...

wow, that sounds pretty dumb man :eh: i dont mean any offence to you but why would you do that?

[-Pat-]

Because it's almost certainly not true haha.

[trickster914]

wow the kid that created this thread must have been retarted....sessh please make some samplers of how i could kick somones ass with tricking hahahha

[shengoikee]

wow the kid that created this thread must have been retarted....sessh please make some samplers of how i could kick somones ass with tricking hahahha

sessh, this is already the kind of assumptions you can expect now....

your looked up to in the tricking community so no doubt if you start explaining the application of snapuswipes and whatnot a lot of people are gonna get the wrong idea.

"but if sessh says it then it must be true" kinda thing. *goes off to attempt a snapuswipe on the street* (exaggeration obviously)

[alpha7158]

Illusion Twist, Jacknife, Boxcutter, Hyperhook, Webster-axe, X-Out, C900, Envergado, Raiz, and Pop 720 Double are all moves I've used in street fights, and they've connected pretty cleanly..

Sess I do not believe you, I mean come on sess who do you take us for? I don't think I have to explain why that comment is silly. :sad:

[trickster914]

sessh, this is already the kind of assumptions you can expect now....

your looked up to in the tricking community so no doubt if you start explaining the application of snapuswipes and whatnot a lot of people are gonna get the wrong idea.

"but if sessh says it then it must be true" kinda thing. *goes off to attempt a snapuswipe on the street* (exaggeration obviously)

bro i was kidding hahaha im not that stupid...the only possible thing i could do in a fight that might work would be a 540 but i wouldent do it hhaaha

[saunders]

sessh, this is already the kind of assumptions you can expect now....

your looked up to in the tricking community so no doubt if you start explaining the application of snapuswipes and whatnot a lot of people are gonna get the wrong idea.

"but if sessh says it then it must be true" kinda thing. *goes off to attempt a snapuswipe on the street* (exaggeration obviously)

i agree. people look up on sessh and will probably follow him in his lead.

[jan]

Hahahaha, jacknife, cheat900, boxcutter, envergado... hahahahaha! Unless you were fighting tall people in wheelchairs, that's not true, haha.

[Shaolin.dk]

Hahahaha, jacknife, cheat900, boxcutter, envergado... hahahahaha! Unless you were fighting tall people in wheelchairs, that's not true, haha.

Sorry Sessh but I also think it's sounds a bit unrealistic..
The only tricks I think YOU could KO with, is the 540, jacknife or illusion twist.

[TartanPajamas]

Sorry Sessh but I also think it's sounds a bit unrealistic..
The only tricks I think YOU could KO with, is the 540, jacknife or illusion twist.

I don't believe him myself (I'm not sure if he's even serious), but are you serious man? 540, jackknife, and illusion twist? Illusion twist, of all things...

But let's not forget his first appearance, when he was mocked for asking for advice on an insane combo. How'd that turn out again? If anyone here could trick in a street fight, it'd be Sessh, but I still don't believe it.

[Shaolin.dk]

I don't believe him myself (I'm not sure if he's even serious), but are you serious man? 540, jackknife, and illusion twist? Illusion twist, of all things...

But let's not forget his first appearance, when he was mocked for asking for advice on an insane combo. How'd that turn out again? If anyone here could trick in a street fight, it'd be Sessh, but I still don't believe it.
Yup I'm serious, and it's only because it's Sessh!
These are tricks that "strikes first" instead of turning 360 degrees before kicking etc.

[TartanPajamas]

In an illusion twist, your non-kicking leg would hit your opponent before your kicking leg.

[sesshoumaru]

I hope y'all don't think that I'm trying to say that I hit someone with a Boxcutter/C900/Illusion Twist/etc. in the beginning of a fight! Like start the fight off with tricking, cause that would be utterly stupid.

What I'm saying, is that you could set someone up to get hit with a trick. You just have to be smooth and quick enough. Not just tell a guy "let's throw down", and then try to Hyperhook him...cause that's not gonna happen!

Fuck it!!! I'll show you what I mean! Expect a vid later on 2day...

[Shaolin.dk]

In an illusion twist, your non-kicking leg would hit your opponent before your kicking leg.

Yeah, ok my bad..

[trickster914]

I hope y'all don't think that I'm trying to say that I hit someone with a Boxcutter/C900/Illusion Twist/etc. in the beginning of a fight! Like start the fight off with tricking, cause that would be utterly stupid.

What I'm saying, is that you could set someone up to get hit with a trick. You just have to be smooth and quick enough. Not just tell a guy "let's throw down", and then try to Hyperhook him...cause that's not gonna happen!

Fuck it!!! I'll show you what I mean! Expect a vid later on 2day...

hahahahahahhaha

[Flowers]

Hahahaha everyone said my thoughts.

I saw the webster knock out before. But that wasn't a "street fight"

When I think of "street fight" I think of someone else wants to actually do harm to you (The goal is not to win, but to harm the other) So to use any move that is not at it's most effective would be silly and/or downright dumb.

Tho you did say you would set them up for it, I think it would just be showing off if you were kicking this kids ass then flash kicked him in the face. Maybe it's like a fatality?

I need a vid, and your definition of a street fight

[Jon P]

In all honesty, I've KO'd people with tricks before...though it's not as effective as basic/contemporary techniques, it can be used. Illusion Twist, Jacknife, Boxcutter, Hyperhook, Webster-axe, X-Out, C900, Envergado, Raiz, and Pop 720 Double are all moves I've used in street fights, and they've connected pretty cleanly...so it's not like it couldn't happen, cause I do it almost everytime.

Note: You have to be really strategic and clever to hit someone with these things. I can only do it because I have years & years of training under by belt, and I know what I'm doing!

Maybe I'll post some examplers in the future showing how to set an opponent up for getting hit with various tricks...

I believe it, I have seen Sess boxcutter a target from standing like it was nothing.
Seriously, it was like a hookkick for him haha.

[jan]

A target and a moving guy trying to assault you are two VERY different things. Even a sparring partner and some agressive dude on the street trying to attack you are two very different things.
First of all, they're not following dojo rules. Second, they WILL try to rush you, thus ruining all chance of executing a trick. Who in their right mind goes *stand still* "oh... hes doing a setup, and hes spinning around quickly in the air... I'm just gonna stand here and watch him while he finishes." *BLAM*

If you try to jump, people WILL run into you. Especially if you try to jump AND turn at the same time. And if you're less than 5'8 tall, people will simply laugh and kick you in the head.

[shengoikee]

yeah i dont doubt sessh could hit a target with pretty much anything! but if he releases something even implying tricks can be used in fights we'll get a whole bunch of retards thinking it's cool to 540 someone etc. hell even a 540 is fucking stupid in a fight. you're either gonna fall on your ass or break the guys neck....

what can i say, i just think fighting itself is plain dumb

[Nuh-Goo-Yen]

I suppose it would be possible to hit someone with a trick as they're off balance.. or better yet, starting to fall down. I'm sure thats what Sessh means.

but still, its too risky.. so kids, do NOT try this at home... or in the streets for that matter

[jan]

yeah i dont doubt sessh could hit a target with pretty much anything! but if he releases something even implying tricks can be used in fights we'll get a whole bunch of retards thinking it's cool to 540 someone etc. hell even a 540 is fucking stupid in a fight. you're either gonna fall on your ass or break the guys neck....

what can i say, i just think fighting itself is plain dumb

True. But I've even seen a dude try a jump wheelkick (a jump turning hook) in a fight, and sure: he hit the guy, but well... It's just not powerful enough to knock someone out, considering he was wearing shoes and all. If you're barefoot and hit them in the temple or jaw with your heel, then you'll knock them out. When a guy comes rushing at you with a right cross ready to connect with your jaw though, you won't have time to jump, twist, kick and land, hahaha.. That's just common sense.

This is ESPECIALLY true if you don't have any muscle to back it up with. You might be able to execute the trick, but you'll be slightly disoriented afterwards, he will be angry, and if you can't kick with about a ton of force, then your kicks will be useless. Same goes for punching. If you have no muscle, don't get into street fights. Even Bruce Lee did weightlifting. He just regulated his protein intake and such so he didn't get any bigger.

[jan]

Btw:


..... Illusion Twist, Jacknife, Boxcutter, Hyperhook, Webster-axe, X-Out, C900, Envergado, Raiz, and Pop 720 Double are all moves I've used in street fights, and they've connected pretty cleanly...so it's not like it couldn't happen, cause I do it almost everytime.


You do a hyperhook or something every time you fight. From my point of view, you've either:

1: Never fought a real fight.

2: Fought against people who were paralyzed from the waist down, or people aged 9-13. I might go as far as to say 14.



Sorry, I've actually seen a lot of street fights. The town I live in is one of the two worst towns in Norway to live in, when it comes to fighting. Every Thursday and Saturday, there are new reports of some kind of gang fight, or some kind of really really brutal fight including knives, bottles and a hospital.

And sorry: I have NEVER seen anyone even execute a wheelkick successfully in a fight. The ones who've tried it did Tkd (from what I know), and they failed. The only kicks I've seen executed successfully in a (real) fight are roundhouse kicks, backkicks, sidekicks and front-kicks. Of course, the flying sidekick has been done on occasion, usually ended with a nice fall onto the concrete.


But yes, I am sorry. It's doable in a sparring match (Kim Do webstered a guy, and Marc C twistkicked a guy), but in a real fight, the guy just doesn't stand 5 feet away hopping up and down. I do not believe you. Even seeing a vid of someone friendly attacking you with a punch or a kick, and you boxcuttering their face won't convince me, simply because... Well... You know the attack is coming, you know WHICH attack is coming, you know the person, you know what to do, and where to do it, you know he won't ACTUALLY attack you, and well... You're not scared, hahaha.

[Psychostick]

No ones had the idea it could just be Sessh's sense of humour?

[shengoikee]

No ones had the idea it could just be Sessh's sense of humour?

haha! you know it wouldnt surprise me but iv no idea what sessh is like. i can just see a lot of retards trying to copy him haha

i agree with jan.

[alpha7158]

Btw:





You do a hyperhook or something every time you fight. From my point of view, you've either:

1: Never fought a real fight.

2: Fought against people who were paralyzed from the waist down, or people aged 9-13. I might go as far as to say 14.



Sorry, I've actually seen a lot of street fights. The town I live in is one of the two worst towns in Norway to live in, when it comes to fighting. Every Thursday and Saturday, there are new reports of some kind of gang fight, or some kind of really really brutal fight including knives, bottles and a hospital.

And sorry: I have NEVER seen anyone even execute a wheelkick successfully in a fight. The ones who've tried it did Tkd (from what I know), and they failed. The only kicks I've seen executed successfully in a (real) fight are roundhouse kicks, backkicks, sidekicks and front-kicks. Of course, the flying sidekick has been done on occasion, usually ended with a nice fall onto the concrete.


But yes, I am sorry. It's doable in a sparring match (Kim Do webstered a guy, and Marc C twistkicked a guy), but in a real fight, the guy just doesn't stand 5 feet away hopping up and down. I do not believe you. Even seeing a vid of someone friendly attacking you with a punch or a kick, and you boxcuttering their face won't convince me, simply because... Well... You know the attack is coming, you know WHICH attack is coming, you know the person, you know what to do, and where to do it, you know he won't ACTUALLY attack you, and well... You're not scared, hahaha.

I agree, the only way you would get the chance to successfully execute those tricks in a street fight is if they were wobbling around on the spot with "finish him!" flashing above his head. the street fights I have seen and that I have been in are more like UFC style of fighting... trying to do tricks in that sort of fight is stupid and there is no way that they have been executed like sess says. I mean an xout? and it hit cleanly? were did there happen to be two people at the receiving end of each kick in the x-out too?

However in saying that theoretically it would be possible, but in practice against a non vegetable target it is a negative.

[shengoikee]

I agree, the only way you would get the chance to successfully execute those tricks in a street fight is if they were wobbling around on the spot with "finish him!" flashing above his head.

hahahaha!:tongue:

[Psychostick]

That happened to me once, true story.

[saunders]

the only way you would get the chance to successfully execute those tricks in a street fight is if they were wobbling around on the spot with "finish him!"

haha sigged

[shengoikee]

i almost did an xout into my housemate's face once when he walked up behind me on a tumble track haha. my leg swooped over his head apparently.

[alpha7158]

i almost did an xout into my housemate's face once when he walked up behind me on a tumble track haha. my leg swooped over his head apparently.

I did a flashkick in the street once and accidentally kicked my friend in the head/neck. I just bailed and was like wtf?! then he just said "OW!" haha. It was a weird feeling because you lose all rotation, especially if you don't expect it to happen.

[Psychostick]

I froze the guys head and shattered it thinking I'd been entered in the outworld tournament, then I realised it was just my friend joking, I've been on the run ever since.

[saunders]

m ex-bboy coach once accidentally tackled some poor child when doing windmills, it looked cool

[Phil D]

my mate once did a backtuck in a club and elbowed some guy in the head, the guy was fine but my mate really hurt his elbow haha

[Flowers]

"Top of the head, Hardest part of the body"

WHAM!

[Skilzat85X]

I wouldn't doubt Sessh's ability to use some tricks in a street fight.

But I just thought he'd be smarter than to get in that many street fights.

[trickster914]

if you jumped and attempted to trick in a fight i m pretty sure the guy would
A) tackle you
B)punch and or kick you in mid flight
C) set you on fire ,rip out your skeleton, then consume your soul

[leadsinger]

people need to progress and progression usually involves starting from somewhere. and that usually means starting from being, in your opinion, crap. and these people need/want help. what you are saying is we should deny them the ability to ask for this help? i think you should read your posts before clicking that button boy.

[-Pat-]

"Hey guys I'm a demon ninja" - Sesshoumaru

[Jon P]

"Hey guys I'm a demon ninja" - Sesshoumaru

Yeah, Sess may say some crazy things some time but seriously, if people start straight up bashing him there will be banning taking place haha. He is one of the coolest guys ever.

[Kyukodo Gaz]

Dale Noble (easily one of the top freestyle fighters in the UK) has hit people with aerials, 540's, c720's, butterflys, butterfly twist rounds in competition... minor edit - jan

Awesome to watch. A lot of his stuff is on VHS, but I can't convert it. I'm sure I have footage of the btwist round, I'll go looking.

Seriously, once he has a trick down, he is such a good fighter that he can hit people with it. It's all about the movement, timing, and the control over your own body apprently.

Tricking in street fighting.... hmmm. I fight nearly every tour of duty (I'm a street police officer and work in Blackpool (UK's 'premier' holiday resort)). I mean OK, it's not like I end up punching people all the time, my 12 years of ju-jitsu kick in and I just take 'em down. I've punched a few, but they tend not to fight back :smile: I've never kicked anyone though, I find it impractical with the body armour and belt. I don't think I would either, you train your hand speed too much in freestyle and the blitz just kicks in. I think that it is possible to hit people with tricks in real life, especially if you are experienced enough to tell when the ruck is going to start. People do not expect anything out of the ordinary, just a nice solid haymaker or a grab attempt (all I see, day in day out). If you're smart, I guess you 'could' do it.

The chances of hitting with it is kinda low unless you are a complete beast and know your shit though (only one person I would say coul do it would be sessh). I don't think we are getting the whole story here though...

[-Pat-]

Yeah, Sess may say some crazy things some time but seriously, if people start straight up bashing him there will be banning taking place haha. He is one of the coolest guys ever.

Fair enough, I just find it impossible to take anything he says seriously.

[jan]

Minor problem: Sesshoumaru is small (not trying to be offensive, but it's true). Most tricksters are around 5'6. Anyone 5'6 trying to do a jump-superspinkick-smashface trick thing onto a normal-sized person, will end up losing balance, then get pummeled in the face when falling onto the ground afterwards.



Sure, he might know his shit, and boxcutters might be super-simple for him, but well... Would you get hit by a boxcutter (in which he spins around in the air for quite literally half a second before executing a wheelkick), and take damage from it, considering the attacker is (estimated) about 5'6 and 140-50 lbs? I know I'd just go in and push him, or even just push him down with my leg, then bullrush the guy.


It's unrealistic. If it works, then why do all the Tkd people lose in full-contact sparring? Look at Kyokushinkai Karate. It's full contact, and the most acrobatic trick being executed, is a jump 360. They ALWAYS (and I mean ALWAYS) fall after hitting. The guys are 6 feet tall, weight about 170-190 lbs, and they pack a LOT of punch. Even they fall (after hours of continous training of that single move, specifically trained for combat purposes), and I'm talking about SPARRING. Do you think it'd work in a real fight??


Here's a vid example (Russian badass motherfuckers) :

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Woe5AQjBOdE

Edit: Sesshoumaru is good at kicking, but he is NOT as powerful, fast and clean as these guys. These guys have perfected their techniques to the absolute limit. Look at those wheelkicks!! They still FALL when trying jump 360s!

[Kyukodo Gaz]

in competition... minor edit - jan



thanks Jan. I should have emphasised that myself.

I respect that it is completely different to real life stuff. Really fucking different. People rarely stand in fornt of you for long enough to even think, 'hmmmmm, a nice spinning hook kick to the jaw would do nicely here...'

but, like I say, when you get good at knowing when a fight is gonna happen (and believe me, you can kinda sense it, whether its pheromones or what i don't know) you can pre-empt very well.

[-Pat-]

Aren't you a copper, Gaz?

[Kyukodo Gaz]

yeah. 4 years in now.

edit. fuck jan, that vid was ace! loved the super clean turning side kick. All the sacrifice spin hooks did my head in a bit though.

[-Pat-]

Do you ever get the opportunity to just full-on deck people or is that not cool when you're a policeman?

[jan]

Look at the Russians in the Kyokushin video. They're a LOT faster than anyone on this board (including Sesshoumaru). They can SOMETIMES barely get enough time to get a jump 360 to connect.
Sure, Sessh can do some pretty amazing tricks, but his basics aren't as clean as the ones in that vid, and his techniques aren't as fast or powerful. (He might be able to jump and do 4 roundhousekicks, but those kicks wouldn't hurt a fly. I can jump and do 4 fast roundhouse kicks too, but they ARE weak kicks). When they barely get to do a jump 360 (in proper full-contact sparring), do you THINK you have enough time to do a 540hook, let alone a hyperhook or a boxcutter?

... and an X-out... No... Just no. Even if you hit, you'll go out of balance, and the kick WON'T have any power, simply because your legs are to the sides. You can't put your body into the kick at all. Connecting makes you lose balance, as well as stopping the flip. It's time to get pummeled in the face.

I've broken 2 inch boards with 540s, 540hooks, 720s, flashkicks etc. I was about 130 lbs back then, and my kicks were weak compared to what they are now. My sidekick could easily break 5-6 inches' worth of wood, but they wouldn't do much hurt on a person in an adrenaline rush. The xout ... You can break a medium-sized board, but if you actually hit something that doesn't give in, well... No.

My golden rule is: If you try to hurt them, you do nothing. If you try to destroy them, you hurt them. You can't destroy anyone with a kick which only gets power from _hooking at the knee, and pull your leg back_. You tap them in the head (or chest, depending on your height and flexibility), and they get upset.

Sparring is one thing, real life is another. Doing tricks in a real fight is stupid. The only trick I would even CONSIDER using, would be a 540, and I'd only use it if I hated the guy to death and wanted to smash his skull in (as well as probably breaking my ankle bone on his forehead), and if he was drunk enough to not even see me throw my first leg up and preparing the second.


Btw Sessh: Aren't you an instructor? You're not allowed to get into fights, unless it's a seriously life-threatening situation.

[SickPanda]

i dunno mang i've seen some people do stupid shit fighting so i suppose it's possible to set a bad fighter up for something like that, but it sure wouldn't be bright or safe no matter what the circumstance. and how do you hit someone with a 720 double? hitting them with the first kick with any force would knock you out of your rotation and most likely onto your ass.

but i'll wait for the vid since it's sessh after all...:wink:

anyway, about tricking in fights, i bet ben brown could do it, for real. sure it wouldn't always work, but isn't really attacking someone with that ish like the whole basis of his tricking now?

AND WHAT ABOUT BUBBA? hahaha

[Kyukodo Gaz]

It's happened a few times, but basically when I have thought I was about to be seriously filled in. Had a bad few weeks actually. Nearly got stabbed last week, armed reponse ended up tasering him on his doorstep while he held the knife up and said he was going to slit my throat (wanker). Got into a serious ruck with 5 young lads last night and arrested all of them after a serious struggle (some lost consciousness momentarily :smile:), but my partner dislocated his jaw.

Wait a sec, here's a link describing exactly what you asked...

oh wait it's been deleted. Basically I arrested a bloke who put up a bit of a fight, the officer I was with got pulled away and I couldn't see what was going on, i heard a lot of shouting and thought he was getting leathered. Anyway, the guy we initially tried to arrest tried to stamp upwards on my face. So yeah, he got hit very hard. It's all about what you can see happening in the iminent future. If your safety is in jeopardy, then yeah, you just hit them really hard unitl they fall over (sometimes with an asp).That was actually about 10 times longer and was much more descriptive but it's 2 in the morning :smile:

Jan, I'm having some of what you are saying, but there are some seriously fast tricksters who kick very hard in combo. You are definitely right about trying to hurt them. Our golden rule is that if you have reached the point where you need to actually hit them, hit them as hard as you can, as much as you can, until you gain control of the situation. None of this pussy footing about bollocks. If your safety is in danger, you just do it. Because it needs to be done.

Tricking plausibility as an aggressive technique in reality = pretty goddamn low. I still think it is possible though (if you rock).

[iEatRAW]

KO'ing with a raiz lol

[Skilzat85X]

Even if tricks aren't that effective in fights, I think everybody is overestimating the abilities of almost anybody you'd encounter in a "street" fight, at school or whatever. Cause let's face it, adults street fighting classifies as "assault" and gets you in jail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD_WWWZHDEI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmrdrhnRr7o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkGOs-YEQ8k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23m3e6WJWfc

Really, these are the only kinds of people that I, or anybody with a brain are concerned about fighting. Why? Because, in our everyday lives people tend not to get in fights with pro martial artists who know how to deflect every single thing ever.

Really, a 540 or whatever may not be effective in a fight. But it's retarded to say "if you do it they are DEFINATELY gonna push you and you're AWLAYS going to fall even if you don't hit them if you do it you automatically loose." Screw that. If somebody sees you do a freaking fast flying kick even if it comes nowhere near them they're reflexes aren't going to say "oh yes i better rush in to that spinning swirling dangerously twisting body." Heck no. Screw that. They're at least going to back the heck up. What the nigg. The videos jan provided may show that tricks in fights aren't that effective, but uhh, how many of us are in a ring fighting another trained professional martial artists?

Really, if you get in a fight at school or wherever you're not going to be fighting just to fight. You're (if you're smart) going to be fighting to end the other's ability to fight. In a street fight I wouldn't be surprised if you could pull some 360 crescents or whatever on some people, horray. But that'd be stupid anyways. Just because you can boxcutter doesn't mean it's effective. It'd probably be much more effective just to throw a plain hook out there, no need to be showy.

But seriously, watch the links I provided. Doesn't it look like people are just beginning to get kneed or front push kicked or side kicked in the stomach or whatever. Mm mm mm. Basic kicks for the win!

[Flowers]

There are alot of dumb people out there who know jack shit about fighting. They would easily get distracted by a spin kick.

But I still don't believe sessh. Hell I don't believe his videos. I think he uses cg.

[Scott]

When I'm a rockstar, I will slay audience members who climb on stage with my flashkicks.

[TartanPajamas]

Nice raiz, Towels!

And yeah, I've been arguing that point for a while. No one's first though when they see a boxcutter is "Hah! That was a mistake! I'll simply step forward and knock you out of the air!"

I know that wouldn't be my first thought.

[Nick B]

"Hey guys I'm a demon ninja" - Sesshoumaru

i just lost all my respect for you.

sessh has done so much for the tricking community. seriously, where do you get off even jokingly making fun of him? hes one of the nicest people ive had the chance to meet and trick with, and definitly one of the nicest, if not the nicest "pro" tricksters. he spends alot of time helping alot of people out with their tricks and writing articles to help out the community. yeah, sometimes he says some crazy things, but he should never deserve to be blantantly made fun of.

[Flowers]

Wait, so sessh isn't really a demon?

[brucelee97]

Wheres the videos ? i really want 2 see them haha!

Like if the tricks work then FUCK thats just awsome haha.

I've had 9years of experience in martial arts and have once used tricking in a street fight and that was when the guy was on the ground and i backflipped and slammed my feet into his chest haha but then fell over ! then i ran up sum1s drive way saying it was my house lol

[TartanPajamas]

Wheres the videos ? i really want 2 see them haha!

Like if the tricks work then FUCK thats just awsome haha.

I've had 9years of experience in martial arts and have once used tricking in a street fight and that was when the guy was on the ground and i backflipped and slammed my feet into his chest haha but then fell over ! then i ran up sum1s drive way saying it was my house lol

You're lying, Bruce.

[brucelee97]

haha its not a lie , its like the only kool true story i have! i mean its not really the outrageous , he was on the ground and i just thought backflip haha

So is Sesh actually putting out a video ?

[sesshoumaru]

Couldn't really get around to capturing anything for y'all to see what I mean. Almost forgot that me and G-Dong were going to go to a B-boying event later on within the day...so maybe another time, I'll be able to show y'all.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I understand fully what you are saying, especially about the fighting distance between sparring and actually fighting...which does more than just change things a bit! This is why I also practice doing all my tricks from fighting stance (standstill), with no wind up. To kinda prepare myself for how it would be done if it was going to be done...

Another thing, a trick is a trick...you don't know what I'm doing until it's done! If I was to put you in a position to get Boxcuttered, and you thought to just rush in and knock me off balance, you'd actually be putting yourself at risk. Cause you don't know what I'm gonna do...I might Shuriken Cork, which is much faster than the Boxcutter. Regardless of the matter it creates a field with too many variables, this is why it's basically a dumb thing to do.

Like I said before, I'm not just opening up with a trick. I wouldn't even try to do a trick unless I've already hit you with something (basic punches or kicks). I'm not a genius, but I'm not fucking stupid...Also, when I fight, I employ methods of controlling where my opponent is going to be (kinda like Wing Chung, but a little different)...so when I go for a trick, I know where you're gonna be. Also, I freaking "spot"...I'm alwys watching my target. Enough for me to go for Pop 900 and hit a target, even if it were to move. You could have a target in your hand, and I could come up to Pop 900 it, and right when I jump you could move the target somewhere else, and I can alter my trick in mid-technique and still hit the target (unless it's out of range of course). Now I'm not talking out of my ass, I'm not perfect at that shit...on average I'd be 7/10, but that's not bad. The problem is if you're wrong, then you're dead wrong!

This is why it's a gamble, and I would discourage people from trying it...but it's not impossible, cause I've done it before. Oh, and yeah...I get into alot of fights, mainly because a friend calls me for extra protection (just in case he get's jumped). I used to get in to shit just cause though, cause I wanted to perfect my technique, but those days are over (shit is childish). Outside of these forums and camps, I'm not a very nice person...I try pretty damn hard not to flip-out, cause I'm actually accustomed to violent environments.

[TartanPajamas]

I'm still not ready to believe you, obviously, but I'm not just going to dismiss the possibility like I did with Bruce over there. Ever caught any of these fights on film?

[-Pat-]

i just lost all my respect for you.

sessh has done so much for the tricking community. seriously, where do you get off even jokingly making fun of him? hes one of the nicest people ive had the chance to meet and trick with, and definitly one of the nicest, if not the nicest "pro" tricksters. he spends alot of time helping alot of people out with their tricks and writing articles to help out the community. yeah, sometimes he says some crazy things, but he should never deserve to be blantantly made fun of.

Haha. I wasn't really making fun of him, just drawing a parallel between those stories and the things said in this thread.

*kiss*

[sesshoumaru]

I'm still not ready to believe you, obviously, but I'm not just going to dismiss the possibility like I did with Bruce over there. Ever caught any of these fights on film?

Hell no!!! Not many people are jumping at the chance to fight a person they don't know anything about, while someone else records it. It sounds "fishy" at the least...

You don't have to believe me though (you not believing that I did or didn't does not change what actually happened), I wouldn't if I was in your position. "Existance comes by Interference", if you don't come in contact with it, then it's naturally assumed "not there". In other words, if you haven't seen it done, then you won't think it can be done. It's only natural...

[poliver]

i hate fighting :( i love choreographed fights

[alpha7158]

Hell no!!! Not many people are jumping at the chance to fight a person they don't know anything about, while someone else records it. It sounds "fishy" at the least...

You don't have to believe me though (you not believing that I did or didn't does not change what actually happened), I wouldn't if I was in your position. "Existance comes by Interference", if you don't come in contact with it, then it's naturally assumed "not there". In other words, if you haven't seen it done, then you won't think it can be done. It's only natural...

Wouldn't it make more sense to fight with more effective tricks anyway? What would posses you to try a technical trick in a fight when a basic kick would be much more effective? Especially if it puts you at risk.

I have a lot of respect for your tricks and what you have added to this forum Sess, I would hate to see you get pulled apart by one comment.

The main reason what you are said got picked apart is because your first comment about executing tricks cleanly on an opponent was over exaggerated. People aren't saying that the act of executing a trick in a fight cannot be done, you are being challenged because you make it sound as if you throw technical tricks in fights on a regular basis; against strong opponents in street fights; and you execute them cleanly 70% of the time.

[erufukami]

Keep in mind there is a difference between fighting and competition kumite/sparring. However, in December Team Sung Mu came to train with my team. They're basically the best in Korea. Half of them had world titles under their belts. We're talking Olympic athletes here.

ANYWAY: I was going against one of their best and... well he was killing me. Kicks to the head and everything. I got fed up with it and starting screwing around. I quick stepped and got kicked. He backed up afterward and I stepped forward. I popped a 720 and basically landed in his lap with it. PISSED HIM OFF!

This guy is an olympic level fighter and I caught him with a pop 720. You don't know what is possible if you catch someone off guard.

In a FIGHT FIGHT... would I chuck a pop 720? Not unless I had the guy reeling like someone in Mortal Kombat waiting for a fatality.

[brucelee97]

Yeah i respect sessoumaru alot , but the comment he made was outrageous! , if he can back it up then there no need 2 say anything than WOAHH

U mabey telling the truth but the way u said sounded like u where very up yourself.

[sesshoumaru]

Wouldn't it make more sense to fight with more effective tricks anyway? What would posses you to try a technical trick in a fight when a basic kick would be much more effective? Especially if it puts you at risk.

I have a lot of respect for your tricks and what you have added to this forum Sess, I would hate to see you get pulled apart by one comment.

The main reason what you are said got picked apart is because your first comment about executing tricks cleanly on an opponent was over exaggerated. People aren't saying that the act of executing a trick in a fight cannot be done, you are being challenged because you make it sound as if you throw technical tricks in fights on a regular basis; against strong opponents in street fights; and you execute them cleanly 70% of the time.

Dude, that's absolutely true, why take the risk when it's not necessary...and it's already proven that doing a basic technique would do more damage than a trick would if it connected. The truth is, because I wanted to see if I could if I wanted to. I'm crazy when it comes to exploring options, and I want to know what they are...regardless of the risk.

Oh and I still stand by that comment, but I'm not trying to say that in a real-life, I fucking hate you, wanna tear you apart fight, that 70% of the time I do a trick I'm gonna hit and knock my target out. What I was trying to say that 70% of the time I do a trick, if the target doesn't move out of my range, then I'm gonna hit it. Not saying that it automatically means that my opponent is going to get cleanly hit. He could block that bitch for all I know!

The thing is, by the time I get around to doing the trick...it's most likely going to knock him out, and if by chance I miss...I'll have a good chance of recovering before he's able to attack me.

Oh, and I said nothing about who I was fighting! I'm not fighting people who's never been in a fight, but I'm also not fighting top class fighters. In most cases it's people who've not had MA experience, but have been in several fights. On occasion it'll be a MA person, and it's a whole lot harder, because they're aware of what can happen.

[brandon904]

Sessh: Enough with the shenanigans, I th ink we're all waiting for that previously mentioned tutorial. :D

[Dave]

sessh you are my hero.

[simon]

i once flaskicked someone by mistake.
but it was a girl so it didn't count.

[Rook]

i once flaskicked someone by mistake.
but it was a girl so it didn't count.

XD

sig'd

shit, I can't sig it. If I change my sig I can't keep the [ size ] tags I had. And I need those!

[simon]

XD

sig'd

shit, I can't sig it. If I change my sig I can't keep the [ size ] tags I had. And I need those!
lol.

[Garou]

i once flaskicked someone by mistake.
but it was a girl so it didn't count.

lmao

But, yeah. I don't believe Sessh. Possibly my favorite tricker, but when it comes to pulling off those tricks in a street fight...I'll believe it when I see it.

[Flowers]

Sessh is black.

He gets into fights.

Rubbing his head is good luck.

That is all...

[alpha7158]

Towels you are a prick.

[simon]

Towels you are a prick.
qft hahahaha

[jan]

Hell no!!! Not many people are jumping at the chance to fight a person they don't know anything about, while someone else records it. It sounds "fishy" at the least...

You don't have to believe me though (you not believing that I did or didn't does not change what actually happened), I wouldn't if I was in your position. "Existance comes by Interference", if you don't come in contact with it, then it's naturally assumed "not there". In other words, if you haven't seen it done, then you won't think it can be done. It's only natural...

Fight filming happens often over here. Everyone has a cell phone, and at least 2 people film fights going on, to show someone else how "those drunken retards pwnd each other" afterwards.

The last part is kinda.. not an issue. It can be done, yes, but you said you do it "almost every time", and that you "KO" people by doing it.
Minor problems: Not only does it happen, it happens almost every time. And not only do you hit, you KO people with tricks lacking the power needed to KO someone. Do you really think your boxcutter has more power than the right cross punch of most 6'0, 190 lbs people over here (who charge their punches, lunge forwards, lean their body into the punch, in one giant all-or-nothing strike)? Because the opponent almost NEVER goes down from the first OR the second hit.

It's not a matter of "not seeing, not believing". It's a matter of truth vs false. That you hit someone with a trick once or twice could be understandable. You're well trained, and you have control over your moves. The problem is that you've claimed to do it on multiple occasions, and that you use your tricks to KO people. When those BIG insanely powerful, fast and strong Russian Kyokushin fighters just barely manages to KO their opponent with a jump 360, how do you KO someone multiple times with stuff that's impossible to put as much power into. They use the ground for power ffs. There's no way you can use the ground for power in a multi-spin trick. Your hyperhook might be snappy, but there's a HYOOOGE difference between snappy and powerful. Don't take this the wrong way, but... You're small. You're half the size of those Kyokushin fighters. You have less muscle. You're not as explosive as them.

You can kick several times in the air, you can twist fast, and you can do fast kicks, but from what I've seen, you still lack a LOT of the power those fighters have. When a person double your size, with twice your weight, muscle, explosiveness and speed just BARELY manages to KO someone, how do you manage to KO someone with something with far less power, considering your half the size, half the weight, have half the muscle and half the length in your limbs. I wonder.

[Skilzat85X]

When a person double your size, with twice your weight, muscle, explosiveness and speed just BARELY manages to KO someone
Ahh comon jan. Those are pro martial artists who have bulked up fighting other pro martial artists who bulk up.

By what you're saying, punk little high school fags shouldn't be able to beat up other punk little high school fags just because they don't weigh that much. But they do, somehow.

[jan]

"Punk little high school fags" can beat up other "punk little high school fags", unless they're trying to do a boxcutter in their face. Then they get beat up. That's kind of my point.

And yes, they're bulked up, huge Russians trained to fight other huge, bulked up Russians. Yet, none of the huge, bulked up (insanely well, WORLD class trained) Russians almost never hit with a simple jump 360. Sessh is not huge, and he's not very bulky, or tall. How come he KO's normal people with boxcutters?

I can pretty much 540hook blindfolded, with both arms on my back. I can break boards with it too. I can hit pads with it easily. I would NEVER use even a 360 in a fight.
Why is that?

I'm 5'9 (taller), 180 lbs (heavier), trained in Kickboxing, Tkd, some 5 ancestor kung fu crap and some Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and I've actually won every national Tkd kicking championship I've attended, as well as won gold medals for my sparring abilities (when I was 5'7 and 130 lbs). I'm not 2 inches taller, 50 lbs heavier, stronger, more explosive and more able to crush stuff. WHY wouldn't I do a simple 360 in a fight? If boxcutters are as simple as hook-kicks for Sesshoumaru, then I must say 360 are as easy as hook-kicks for me. Yet I wouldn't use it, and I know I'd most likely fail if I tried one. Why is this?

[simon]

By what you're saying, punk little high school fags shouldn't be able to beat up other punk little high school fags just because they don't weigh that much. But they do, somehow.

"Punk little high school fags" can beat up other "punk little high school fags", unless they're trying to do a boxcutter in their face. Then they get beat up. That's kind of my point.
That's me in the changing room.

[Matt R]

thumbs down for fighting

[simon]

thumbs down for fighting
planning on going to t in the park this year?

[Phil D]

Using tricks in a fight is such a a stupid idea, im a black stripe in kyokushin karate and when we do full contact sparring even a head height roundhouse kick is seen coming a mile off unless it is set up with a punch or two before. The only kicks worth using in a fight in my opinion are low kicks, knee strikes and maybe a chest level frontkick if someone is wide open. Using spin kicks an such in streets fights is dull because not only are you not warmed up theyr soo not gona work. Why would you throw a 900 if a regular roundhouse could get in quicker and with more power and control? The best strike in a streetfight in my opinion is an elbow to the jaw

[shengoikee]

thumbs down for fighting

amen

[Ashtar]

Even though everyone desires to be able to trick on pavement eventually or whatever, I don't see why people should complain about people who want to trick on a springfloor, or even on something like a trampoline. More height to play with, and a softer impact on landing (or crashes) seems like a good safe way to become familiar with stuff.

It would only suck if people who made videos on those terrains started saying they were better than people who did it on pavement/grass. Or even if they were better on the springy terrains, it might just be because the people who train pavement/grass just haven't had access to those terrains to train on them.

For tricking in fighting, I thought it was more a demonstration of fitness, as in you're more confident your kicks are powerful if you can do these powerful moves with them. With big degrees of spin, the idea being that you hit them after a short spin, but with all the power you developed, you transfer the rest of the spin you'd normally do into them, knocking them sideways.

[Matt K]

Even though everyone desires to be able to trick on pavement eventually or whatever, I don't see why people should complain about people who want to trick on a springfloor, or even on something like a trampoline. More height to play with, and a softer impact on landing (or crashes) seems like a good safe way to become familiar with stuff.

It would only suck if people who made videos on those terrains started saying they were better than people who did it on pavement/grass. Or even if they were better on the springy terrains, it might just be because the people who train pavement/grass just haven't had access to those terrains to train on them.

For tricking in fighting, I thought it was more a demonstration of fitness, as in you're more confident your kicks are powerful if you can do these powerful moves with them. With big degrees of spin, the idea being that you hit them after a short spin, but with all the power you developed, you transfer the rest of the spin you'd normally do into them, knocking them sideways.

Uhhh I think you need to read the whole topic. We've progressed a little ways from the original subject of the thread. :tongue:

[TKD_Andy]

ROFLCOPTER in its entirety at this thread!

what the hell..

tricks =/= fighting
trick techniques =/= fighting techniques

anything else is anal backwash.

[PMADX]

Roundhouse kicks FTW

[wbhart]

I have no trouble believing that tricks could and have been applied in streetfights, or even that if Sess has been in streetfights that he has been experimenting with tricks....but, what I have trouble visualising is Sess getting himself into streetfights. Ha ha.

When I see Sess, I see a scholar, well-spoken, able to express ideas well and on these forums helpful. I mean, people call him the professor. It doesn't add up. OK Bruce Lee got into streetfights, but well.... you know. B. Lee I think said kicking someone in the head was like trying to head butt someone in the foot. It's not that it can't be done, it's just not a good technique.

There certainly are people that believe tricks should *only* be trained with a martial application in mind, even if they never get used that way. Spot the target, train for power, speed, reach, etc, etc. And there are lots of things that I can think of that I imagine would improve the applicability of a trick in a fight. The ability to change a move mid-flight would be one, and there are rare skilled martial artists who definitely can do that (masters and the like). Ask anyone who has been KO'd by one.

But if you are *that* good at tricks, why fight?

What I can believe is the following. Sess used to (or still does) live in a bad area. He has great MA training, and threw, manipulated, punched and kicked his way to victory in a number of fights. As a scholar, he decided to study the applicability of tricks in streetfights. Thus in carefully chosen fights, with opponents he could definitely control, he experimented. At moments when he knew his opponent was unable to counter, he tried a trick which he had trained for martial application. There was contact, and his foot, wound up to speed, so that there was much kinetic energy = momentum, KO'd his opponent. Maybe Sess then fell to the ground, but the fight was over. Experiment a success.

In short, fighting is a risk, like Russian roulette is, i.e. really, really dumb. The best defence is just that. Avoid or leave the situation if possible. Don't be stupid and risk getting shot, stabbed, killed or severely injured, because for one thing, it'll end your tricking career. As I said, if you are good at tricks, why fight!? You have too much to lose. And tricking is the worst possible thing to try in a fight. It's a science experiment, not a technique.

BTW, people say Sess is about the only person who could pull that off. I disagree. I believe Ben Brown's teacher was a bodyguard and taught him to train to kill/disable an opponent. He takes that seriously when training tricks. Or at least, I believe he has made comments to that effect. Watching the little bit of footage available of him, I think I believe that. So it's not that I believe that it *can't* be used in streetfighting.... it's just really dumb, and not what I think of when I think of tricks, or of Sess. Sess may try to convince us he is a mean mofo, but I don't believe him.

I *do* want to see him decimating targets in his next sampler though!!

</random post>

[Dave]

^ generally agreed.

The question is, would sess lie? Why would he? He isn't looking for respect, he already has that... I dont see why he would lie about that but i think people are misinterperiting his words and making up extravagant reasons as to why it is so unbelievable.

Maybe these people are also a little bit jealous...

[Flowers]

My post was a comment about the easily offended people who gasp at racism. I meant no disrespect.

[ben brown]

Whats up guys........

Just reading a few thoughts and thought I would throw a penny or two out there. =)

Now, I think that a martial artist and a tricker do what they do for different reasons. both have very legitimate and postive reasons for doing what they do though...... that is to say, one is not better than the other. I am a martial artist. However, I am not saying that I am a martial artist because that is what I would rather be or that is what I choose to be but because that is what reality says I am. I started studying the martial arts when I was very young and I had already earned my black belt before I even knew what a "trick" was. So, seeing as though my background comes from that of traditional martial arts training, that is all I can really comment on because that is all I really know. I feel I would be out of line trying to explain the theories of tricking through the eyes of someone who is a tricker.

There is always a mis-conception regarding what techniques I do and why. As a martial artist I have to look at everything in a very un-biased way. Meaning that, in my eyes some techniques dont have merit concerning the martial arts...... whether I like that fact or not. For instance, there are certain techniques that I think are fun techniques to do but I believe that they do not follow the principles of the martial arts and fighting. The reason I do not practice those techniques is because martial arts is fighting. They always have been and hopefully always will be. Every martial artist has to know and have a balance of "martial art" and "martial science". These two should constantly compliment each other. It stands to reason that it IS the science of fighting that makes fighting an art. why?
Because that is where technique is formed. There is a very right way and a very wrong way to execute any given technique. Says who?? Physics and science is who. If a person says that another person has a roundhouse kick that has excellent technique it is considered art. Yes thats true, however, it is also science because in the martial arts that means that that person has a roundhouse kick that follows the laws of physics which in turn means that it will reach maximum potential for what its purpose is.

It goes like this.........
"martial art": correct technique = art
"martial science" correct technique = knock out
One should never think that these two are different or seperate from each other.

With that preface in mind, there are certain techniques that do not follow the theories of the martial arts in my opinion. The foremost principle being "maximum effeciency with minimum effort". Or, as master mas oyama said it "one strike, one kill". If this was not the rule of all martial arts then why would the martial arts exist? Why would technique exist? Why would science in fighting exist? Because to be a "strong fighter" you should be able to deliver an output that devastates your opponent while putting forth little input.

the martial arts = training correct technique
training correct technique = the most optimal way to get the most "power"
the most optimal way to get the most "power" = efficiency
efficiency = the martial arts

Its like the circle of life simba!!!!! =)

Now, with that said....... a martial artist also has to keep a very, very open mind. Why? Because anything can happen at anytime. Sparring is not fighting. Full contact fighting is not fighting. Boxing is not fighting. Only fighting is fighting and if there are rules, safety regulations, judges, ect. it is not fighting. Fighting is like a finger print....... no fighter will ever be the same and no fight will ever be the same. Why? Because different people = different personalities, different physical build, different reach, different height, different weight, different strengths, different weaknesses, different clothes are worn, different levels of fighting ability ect. Not to mention your environment says a lot as well: Fighting during the day in a parking lot is a lot different than fighting on grass after a rainstorm during the night.

A martial artist has to use the techniques that he believes to be valuable. Those techniques change with different kinds of fighters. Why? Usually because of their physical build but also because of the things i mentioned above...... some martial artists dont believe certain techniques follow the principles of the martial arts.

Now, am I saying that I dont believe a certain technique would ever work in a fight? No, I would never say something like that......anything can happen. However, what I am saying is that I believe there are many techniques that are executed in fights or could be executed in fights that dont follow the principles of the martial arts that I mentioned above. Do i think it is possible that someone could execute a boxcutter in a fight? Yes, its possible. Now, a more important question is do I think a boxcutter has the potential to render your opponent helpless so he cant stand, speak, or think (which is the point of all martial arts techniques by the way)? I believe it is highly unlikely...... but possible..... maybe..... but luck would be a factor. So seeing as though i dont believe the chances of such a technique putting my opponent into a coma is very good and nothing about fighting should involve luck........ I dont believe it follows the theories of the martial arts ie. "one strike, one kill" which is why i dont practice boxcutters.

I believe a martial artist should practice and train any technique that follows the theories of fighting and is valuable to him as a fighter. Which is why I practice the techniques that I do because I feel that I have to keep any available weapon open to me so long as it does not contradict the principles of fighting. An uppercut is a great hand technique because its output is equal to that of its input. When done correctly it will knock out your opponent into the next world and leave the inside of his mouth looking like a 10 car pile up on the 405.......... but does that mean that i will ever use it in a fight? Maybe, maybe not....... only if the opportunity presents itself for it to be used. What if i never use an uppercut in a real fight, does that mean that it is a unrealistic technique? Of course not, such a thought is absurd from the begining. Now lets take this same line of thinking and apply it to a 540.

Does a 540 follow the principles of fighting?: Absolutely.
Why?: Because its output is equal to that of its input.
Meaning what?:Meaning it takes more energy to execute it but it has greater impact than most other techniques.
Would you use it in fight? I have no idea of knowing that but only if the opportunity presented itself.
If it did and you used it in a fight would it put your opponent in a coma?: I bet my life on it.
What are the chances of the opportunity presenting itself?: Extremely rare at best.
So why train it?: Because the outcome of the technique is worth having it at your disposal.
Meaning what?:Meaning although it is unlikely that such a technique would be used in a fight does not negate the fact that it follows the principles of the martial arts and if it was used......... it would put an end to your attacker. basically, the same exact thing could be said about side kick but to dismiss any technique that follows the principles of fighting is biased, shallow thinking, and makes you as a fighter not open to as many options........ seeing as though when it comes to fighting and fighting techniques, there are really not that many options to begin with.

In short,
Have I ever used a 540 in a fight? No, I never have.
Will i ever use a 540 in a fight? I have no idea.
If the situation presented itself to use it would I? Yes
Do I want to use a 540 in a fight? No more than any other technique and only if the situation presented itself

As a martial artist I cant be biased and pick and choose my "fighting techniques". A martial artist has to train every technique that is true to the principles of fighting and theories of the martial arts (fighting is science!!) to its full potential regardless of whether you have used it in a fight or not.

ONLY if a technique has merit concerning the martial arts, follows the principles of fighting, scientifically efficient, has an output equal to that of its input and is valuable to you as a fighter should it be trained. however, any technique that this is true for, no matter what the technique may be, should not be discarded either.

Just my thoughts, and please remember that I am approaching this from a martial artists viewpoint because I dont have the liberty or right to approach it any other way.

[Reim]

Wow, Ben. Spoken only like someone of your experience and knowledge could have. I respect everything you said, and although some on my opinions varies (more on the side of why trick, than your theories on martial arts) I for the most part agree. Very well said.

I can think of a metaphor comparing this debate to religion. But I wont. Because that just opens up a whole new field of argument.

[DarkXacreD]

I feel like such a noob now after reading ben's post...

[brucelee97]

Ben said it perfectly , i don't think there is any need for this thread to continue.

Yeah thats true Reim we don't want any more arguments lol and most of all not one about religion.

Now we shall wait for Sesshoumarus video haha!

[Kyukodo Gaz]

I think it i excellent that he has drawn the paradox between 'art' and 'science.' He's absolutely right. I love this thread!!!

[Flowers]

Wow, I never knew that a 540 was actually more powerful then most kicks. Anyone who reads this thread will probably learn something

[TKD_Andy]

if efficiency = martial arts then nobody would ever learn to kick above waist height and everyone would end every confrontation with a punch to the throat.

[wbhart]

if efficiency = martial arts then nobody would ever learn to kick above waist height and everyone would end every confrontation with a punch to the throat.

That would be until you fight someone who already knows that trick. I believe they thought the same thing about swords until guns were invented.

[jan]

if efficiency = martial arts then nobody would ever learn to kick above waist height and everyone would end every confrontation with a punch to the throat.

Best post in a while.

[shengoikee]

ben's post was nicely put but seems to be romanticizing classical martial arts. the idea of "martial science" and "martial art" going hand in hand probably isnt very applicable in actuality.

[jan]

A sidekick can only do so much damage on a moving target. Anything including a "push" is mostly useless.

[shengoikee]

also, in real life people have guns/knives/pool cues etc

[TKD_Andy]

That would be until you fight someone who already knows that trick. I believe they thought the same thing about swords until guns were invented.

knows what trick exactly?

swords/guns dont have anything to do with hand to hand combat. Swords and guns are about efficiency and evolution, one replaced the other because weapons technology evolved.

and thanks jan :good:

[Tao]

I also think that the so called 'Tricking' lost its spirit.
Of course, Martial Arts is part of it but I would never use tricks to fight, didn't even waste any thought about it.
Martial Arts is, like the name says, an art where you express your best in a small but impressive sampler, therefore people would expect awesome stuff.
The most important part of the spirit is the hard work you achieved by breaking your limits and fear, while tricking in the backyard, on grass of course.
I still remember how I stood there for like 30 mins. to prepare my mind for the first backflip, exactly like Juji.
Many people forgot why they trick, it was a unique strive for the bodys limit,to break through the barrier and to see how far you can get.
It was a very pure sport, people tricked for themself.
But now it's all about showing off, that's often the only reason because it's cool and you get noticed and whatever, this makes me sad.
It's a long way to the top and people who trick on pylo floor or are happy with their sloppy tricks and go on to the next, seem for me to take a shortcut.
Also the sampler is part of the art where you show your best, it's a part of yourself you are showing everyone and therefore I'm disappointed if I see samplers with crashes or totally negligible stuff like showing your house or your cat...

I really miss the old times and I'm not surprised that many of the old generation tricksters, where tricking was like a secret in the backyard, left this forum.
When I joined 5 years ago I mostly saw samplers where everyone tricked outside on grass alone and not in front of people or in the gym.


To reach the limit of your body was the main reason to trick, it was for yourself and not for others, the girls and the attention were just good side effects but still second rate.
Now everyone tricks for these side effects, always with ulterior motives.

[TKD_Andy]

i miss the days when people used to say 'wow what was that?' rather than nowadays 'wow thats cool PK man!' when you're doing something like a btwist

i trick purely for fun.

[jan]

I could not agree more, to be honest:)

[TartanPajamas]

also, in real life people have guns/knives/pool cues etc

The only situation involving a knife or a gun will end in me handing over my wallet, not attempting to execute any kind of hand-to-hand technique.




...or maybe I'd just do a flash kick, flash kicks pwn...

[Dave]

I still remember how I stood there for like 30 mins. to prepare my mind for the first backflip, exactly like Juji.


im sorry but i just thought it was wierd when you said "exactly like Juji".

You then go on and say you trick for yourself. Whatever, i just thought that was wierd :eh:

you also say "When I joined 5 years ago I mostly saw samplers where everyone tricked outside on grass alone and not in front of people or in the gym."

So you're saying that we shouldnt trick with our friends? And limit ourselves to our stinky, unmowed, stick riddled back yards!?!?!!

Tricking to reach the limits of your own body, eh? That's one reason to trick. I agree with others and I trick for fun and for some exercise. Learning to make tricking fun and having a good time when tricking changes everything. You are no longer so angry at yourself for doing that stack, you are laughing with your friends about it.

Keeping a positive vibe makes everything much more enjoyable in my opinion.

I also like how you say "Now everyone tricks for these side effects, always with ulterior motives."

Generalise a little bit more please. You just cant make statements like that, id be happy if you just said: "I dont like how some people trick for the side effects and have ulterior motives. It makes me very angwwyyy!!!:ogre: "

When you watched your first tricking video did you think "Hey, that guy's really pushing his body to the limit! I wanna do that!" or "Heyyyyy that looks pretty darn cool, i should investigate further into this 'tricking'".

So yeah, I disagree with you on that one. I am quite content in seeing trickers having fun, falling over and looking at cats ! :tongue:

[Tao]

I don't think that you disagree on that one because I also like to trick with friends, seeing people crash or watch cats.
But this has nothing to do in a tricking sampler, there's no problem in putting the crashes in another samp or putting some of them at the end of your sampler.
And what's weird about saying you trick for yourself?
You are exactly one of those I was talking about, who like to show off because it's cool so I'm not surprised that you don't understand it.
It's rather amusing that you picked up all the trivial things from my post.
And I never said that tricking should not be fun, I also laugh about myself when I crash so I've no idea why you started to throw this argument in.

[Dave]

HAHAHAHHAHAHAH

okkkkayy firstly you live in contradiction city.

Secondly im not one of those people... at all. In fact, i've never tricked in front of anyone apart from my 2 tricking mates jared and jack. Im nowhere near good enough. Saying I show off when you dont even know anything about me is just another assumption you've made and we all know what happens when you assume..... you become a big idiot, noone likes you and a kitten dies.

Also, for the record. The "wierd" thing wasnt directed at the trick for youself comment, it was at the "exactly like juji" thing.

"It's rather amusing that you picked up all the trivial things from my post."

This actually made me laugh hahaha. It's like, how convenient you picked out all the points you disagreed with from my post and expressed your opinion on them hmmmmm.

Your post was oozing with negativity and downtalk so I thought when you were praising tricking in the backyard alone that you actually followed this tradition.

"I don't think that you disagree on that one because I also like to trick with friends, seeing people crash or watch cats.But this has nothing to do in a tricking sampler...."

You are against people tricking with their friends in samplers? And you will watch people crash in real life but on your computer?

" there's no problem in putting the crashes in another samp or putting some of them at the end of your sampler."

But didnt you just say that crashes have "nothing to do in a tricking sampler". I was also talking about at the end of peoples' samplers... What do you mean? There are samplers where people are just crashing the whole time? But wait didnt you say it's ok if they put all crashes in another samp? Ahhhh confusion overload.

[shengoikee]

what the hell are you arguing about? stop being a pair of fags haha

[Dave]

hahaha you're right :( sorrrrrry

Tao lets agree to disagree and be friends :)

hug?

[jan]

1: "Exactly like Juji" as in "I can relate to him".

2: Shut the fuck up.

[Tao]

Well, I'm not sure what we're arguing about here, if you aren't one of these people, why did you complain then?
My hate goes towards all these people who show off in public and think they are cool, while they actually really suck.
These people misunderstood the real intention and blame the whole tricking community.

1: "Exactly like Juji" as in "I can relate to him".

What I meant was that the experience is quite the same and I don't relate to him, stop interpreting your stuff into my sentence.
But it was wrong to put this in, so just forget this ,exactly like Juji thing.

[Dave]

juji was mentioned/involved in the topic how...

[Dave]

i only complained because you didnt say "those who show off" you included everyone who is new to tricking. That includes me and offends me that you would assume im arrogant/show offy as i also hate people like that.

It was the generilisation i didnt like.

[Tao]

I see, but I didn't say that every new guy is just showing off directly.
Just said it's nowadays all about showing off :P
But I'm agreeing with you on most of your arguments, that's why I didn't respond to all.
There's nothing against having fun in tricking, that's the most important aspect but I forgot to mention this. :D
There was no reason to argue, but that's exactly why I hate writing in internet, you can interpretate so much in everything and keep arguing till you're an old geezer.
And I can't express everything, english is not my mother tongue.

No one should ever forget the pureness of tricking it once was.
You break through the hardest barrier there is on earth, your own mind.

[simon]

i can do backflips guys.

PM Skilzat with the phrase: BROWN BEAR

[Nuh-Goo-Yen]

What I think is that you should trick for yourself and for other tricksters [this comment is supposed to relate to the whole community thing], which is why I concentrate mostly on kicks, but nowadays you got to do everything, but thats a different subject. If you only tricked for yourself, then you would not make any samplers at all... why would you, a sampler is to show others your skills.

Maybe some people show off because its in their personality. Sometimes those type of people are just fun to hang out with... other times, they're dicks.

I for one, enjoy watching crashes in samplers or things that seem unrelated [cats?], it makes it feel more human and adds more personality to the person tricking in it. Hell, Juji adds misc. things all the time, and I think its great, but that's just me.

And I think most of the "old generation tricksters" left this forum because ...well... because they grew up, I guess...

by the way, I noticed that you said "My hate goes towards all these people who show off in public and think they are cool, while they actually really suck." ...but what do you think about show offs who are actually good? Just wondering :smile:

[Kyukodo Gaz]

I did like this thread...

[Tao]

If you only tricked for yourself, then you would not make any samplers at all... why would you, a sampler is to show others your skills.

...but what do you think about show offs who are actually good? Just wondering :smile:

That's right, you show your samplers to show your skills and to get advice on how to improve.

I would say it depends on the situation, if you are on a gathering or something similiar no one would say anything against it.
But you see more and more samplers where guys go outside and show off in public, like the fag Joe Eigo, and think they are something great.
You instantly don't like them, do you? :wink:
For a good personality you need to be modest, who likes these guys who always tell you how great they are or how they fucked their girlfriend again, it's true, you can have a lot fun with them but in the end they are dickheads.
These arrogant people accumulate in the tricking community and that's the reason why this sport isn't as impressive as it was before. :eh:

E: I forgot the unrelated things:
Yeah I like it too, it's true that these things show a bit of the personality as well, but Juji for example used exactly the right personal scenes, did you notice that they somehow perfectly fit into the sampler?
Like I said, the sampler is a part of the art you are about to create, you have the possibility to add anything you want, but if you add really unnecessary things, the watcher will think: WTF?
What was that for?

[Nuh-Goo-Yen]

Yeah, I agree with the whole arrogant tricksters thing... and believe me, I know a thing or two about those type of people who are just up their own assholes

[shengoikee]

i can do backflips guys.

i dont believe you man. nobody can do that.

[simon]

i dont believe you man. nobody can do that.
damn i need a camera.
if only i could stop buying old ps2 games.:dead: wwe:here comes the pain arrived today:dead:
lol.

[Scott]

Simon can't trick because he has herpes all over his body.

[WildArm]

tricking is whatever you want it to be and for everyone except jkt and bjoertem and inkrepid. personaly i like twists the best . i also have a very nice jacknife if i do say so myself (wich i dont other people say it too...) and coming from someone who kicks descent atleast.. i can say tricking and kicks have nothing to do with eachother, because its everyones own interpretation of what tricking is, like dave c said you are who you are because of how you trick, your a tricker, sheep is a great tricker , he doesnt kick often but i personally couldnt give a flying fuck and every time i see someone flame him for that my burning desire to kill grows slightly more... sheep, dave c and many others just trick because they love it and they do what they want, and as often or as little as they want, that being said yes dave c does kick, no sheep doesnt ( he does but not often and he can 1080) tricking cant be defined or classified in anyway and anyone who tried to define it can go suck a cock i cant wait till the day when im a good tricker- then my opinion might actually be valid and ill write something like this again.

[simon]

Simon can't trick because he has herpes all over his body.
that was true
now it is not.
but i still suck anyways....:dead: :dead:

[WildArm]

no u dont. u trick the way ur suposed too.... and have unique combos and look like u have fun. u dont do it to impress this forum

[WildArm]

simon, that post was directed at you

[simon]

no u dont. u trick the way ur suposed too.... and have unique combos and look like u have fun. u dont do it to impress this forum
simon, that post was directed at you
i dont have fun tricking on hard icey grass when i can't even do a 540.
it's more work than fun right now.
the fun comes when the samplers are being released and the gatherings are on.
tbh.

[jan]

What I meant was that the experience is quite the same and I don't relate to him, stop interpreting your stuff into my sentence.
But it was wrong to put this in, so just forget this ,exactly like Juji thing.

As in "I CAN RELATE TO HIM, CONSIDERING I'VE BEEN IN THE EXACT SAME SITUATION". How the fuck is this a bad thing???




Btw, to tear up old wounds: I can believe Sessh hitting one drunk and sleepy guy in the head with a 540, a 540hook or even MAYBE a boxcutter (if they're as simple to him as Jon P says), but my problems are the following:

1: He said he's done it repeatedly, even almost every time he's been in a fight.

2: He said he's KO'ed people with his hyperhooks and boxcutters in the repetitive streetfights he's been in.

3: He might have martial arts experience, but he's got be able to do above head height boxcutters with shoes, on concrete, to hit a normal person in the head. By above, I mean having his entire body spinning and kicking past his own full height. The reasoning is that he's a very short person, (like most tricksters).


So, it's not about hitting one person once with a boxcutter, it's about hitting people with boxcutters, hyperhooks and illusiontwists almost every time he's in a fight, and knocking them out like that several times. Where is the power to knock someone out in a boxcutter, considering a straight-on right cross (which is arguably the most powerful punch) from a well trained martial artist usually doesn't "sack" a person in one blow?

I just need an answer to this, and a vid of Sesshoumaru landing an above head high boxcutter with shoes, on concrete, like nothing. Preferably several times in a row, to show his skill in that move. Same goes for hyperhook.


Now, he can say that he's only been fighting 5'5 people, but where's the logic in that?

[WildArm]

pwnd...

[sesshoumaru]

As in "I CAN RELATE TO HIM, CONSIDERING I'VE BEEN IN THE EXACT SAME SITUATION". How the fuck is this a bad thing???




Btw, to tear up old wounds: I can believe Sessh hitting one drunk and sleepy guy in the head with a 540, a 540hook or even MAYBE a boxcutter (if they're as simple to him as Jon P says), but my problems are the following:

1: He said he's done it repeatedly, even almost every time he's been in a fight.

2: He said he's KO'ed people with his hyperhooks and boxcutters in the repetitive streetfights he's been in.

3: He might have martial arts experience, but he's got be able to do above head height boxcutters with shoes, on concrete, to hit a normal person in the head. By above, I mean having his entire body spinning and kicking past his own full height. The reasoning is that he's a very short person, (like most tricksters).


Once again...this is not what I said!


I said that using tricks in a fight is not impossible. The reason why, is that I've used them in fights before.


I did not say that everytime I do a trick I K.O. an opponent 70% of the time. I said that I can hit a target, which moves randomly, 70% of the time with certain tricks.


I did not say that everytime I get into a fight I throw tricks. That would be utterly ridiculous...


I did not say that I've knocked several people out with hyperhooks and Boxcutters on different occasions. I said that I've knocked people out with them before (i.e. one time I KO'd a person with a Hyperhook, and another time I KO'd a person with a Boxcutter). This has only happened once!


What does me being short have to do with anything! Me being short actually gives me more leverage to knock you out if anything...and just because I'm 5'6' doesn't mean that I don't have "knock out power". I may be relatively short, but I'm 176 lbs. and I'm fast. Not that I'm comparing myself to Bruce Lee, but he wasn't a very big person either. Are you saying that he doesn't have any "knock out power"?

Also, who told you I tried to Hyperhook a 6'3" tall guy? No one told you that...I do the appropriate tricks on the appropriate target. I wouldn't try to X-Out a person my height, because the kick would go over their heads! I wouldn't try to Hyperhook a person taller than me, because my foot would most likely travel into their torso, which doesn't pivot when it get's hit (like the head would)...I would fall if I did that.

Remember, my argument was that in a street fight, not a professionally staged fight, using a trick could work. So stop talking about professional Russian and Polish fighters, cause you're not going to be fighting that calibur of a fighter in a street fight...

Like I said before...I'm not freaking stupid (maybe a little crazy), but not stupid. I do these things because I'm confident in my abilities, and I want to see if/how it would work.

[Andy Longcat]

Too lazy to read all thread so here it goes:

I believe Sess can use tricks in fights. I don't give a shit if you don't.


bai :D

[Flowers]

We should be beyond the sessh using tricks in a fight, I think he summed it up pretty well.

Were on Tao calling out the "new generation"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2068759819805624656&hl=en

Tao, would you say this video is what your talking about? There's about a whole minute of not tricking in it.

[GSimp]

The only thing that has changed since I started tricking that pisses me off is this pre-requisite bullshit. "Ohh you can't do that move because you can't backflip yet!" If I feel like I want to corkscrew and I can't backtuck, then I will do as I goddamn well please! Thank you.

[ben brown]

if efficiency = martial arts then nobody would ever learn to kick above waist height and everyone would end every confrontation with a punch to the throat.


That is to assume that the technique of choice is a punch. Until you face any given opponent you cant know that for sure. If you go into any fight with a predetermined idea of what will happen or what technique you will use, you have already lost the fight. A fight is a very, very short thing......... however, so much goes on in that little time and so many things change so you cant go in there with a "battle plan" so to speak. A fighter that understands the art of fighting sees and adapts to the changes of his opponent and strikes him down with the best technique the situation calls for. It could be a kick, it could be a punch........... you wont know until your opponent shows you.

Effciency in the martial arts does not mean doing the least amount of work possible. It means understanding what your strengths are in comparison to your opponents weaknesses and knowing how to exploit them so you can strike him down as quickly as possible.

I was told this a long time ago.......
When it comes to fighting, your opponents thoughts are a burden to you and are rather annoying. The reason for this is because he has thoughts of hurting you and hurting your pride. The more he thinks the heavier the burden becomes on you. Strike him down as quickly as possible to end his thoughts and your burden will be lifted. This is not a matter of rushing however......... it is a matter of understanding the martial arts which is very difficult indeed.

Again, my understanding of the martial arts is not being able to do the least amount of work. fighting is like anything else......... there are choices to be made during the fight and a fighter that understands fighting will learn to make all the right choices and will not allow his opponent the time to make even the wrong ones.

Most everyone knows that fighting and chess have many things in common. Swordsmen of japan considered playing the game of shogi (japanese chess) a part of their training because it sharpened their intellect of swordsmanship. With that in mind, would you have your entire plan determined before you or you opponent moved a single piece? Would you choose to move a knight (punch) when the better move is to move a bishop (kick)? Are you skilled enough to know and see that the better move is the bishops move? What happens when your opponent has you in check, do you stick with your determined plan? I think the relativity of things is something most fighters never ponder, but should because they would be better fighters if they did.

Additionally, any technique should be executed in a fight exactly like it is when you train. If it is not, then that is your fault, not the techniques fault. Rarely a technique is executed correctly in a fight but it always should be no matter what the conditions. We know the most scientific way to make the most out of any given technique and you should be disciplined enough to carry out your techniques the same way in a fight situation. Often, due to adrenaline, nerves, or being down right scared your technique changes...... you should be able to clench your jaw and control those things but if you cant then all of those things are your weakness not your techniques weakness.

[Nick B]

The only thing that has changed since I started tricking that pisses me off is this pre-requisite bullshit. "Ohh you can't do that move because you can't backflip yet!" If I feel like I want to corkscrew and I can't backtuck, then I will do as I goddamn well please! Thank you.

you're a dumbass.

[Tao]

We should be beyond the sessh using tricks in a fight, I think he summed it up pretty well.

Were on Tao calling out the "new generation"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2068759819805624656&hl=en

Tao, would you say this video is what your talking about? There's about a whole minute of not tricking in it.


You guessed right, I thought of your sampler when I posted my opinion :smile:

[Tao]

tricking is whatever you want it to be

Yes, but that's where people have different views.
If you flip in TKD, is it TKD then ?
If you do breakdance in gymnastics, is it gymnastics then?

Of course, tricking has its influence from martial arts and gymnastics but it's a mixture and not just one of them, there are always rules, otherwise this sport wouldn't exist, would it?
If you obey these rules or not is up to you but earning critism is very presumably.

[TKD_Andy]

tricking is whatever you want it to be

then i declare tricking to be in fact a small hamlet in southern wales.

[Andy Longcat]

then i declare tricking to be in fact a small hamlet in southern wales.

fair enough.

[short gorilla]

I didn't read through this whole thread because there are almost 20 pages of it, and based on the first and last pages it's probably mostly shite. But there is a major point to be made in that there are a lot of people that get into tricking without mastery of some basic (and I mean extremely basic) principals that impare the quality of later more advanced techniques. For example, someone that can't do a good roundhouse kick isn't going to have a good looking 540 kick. Someone that doesn't have explosive power and height in their jumps isn't going to have a clean looking back tuck, x-out, etc. You get the idea.

As I write this though, it occurs to me that unless people make the concious effort to improve those basics they will never master them, and thus this is just me throwing two cents into an empty pond. I guess I'm just another whiner. Fuck me.

[TartanPajamas]

The only thing that has changed since I started tricking that pisses me off is this pre-requisite bullshit. "Ohh you can't do that move because you can't backflip yet!" If I feel like I want to corkscrew and I can't backtuck, then I will do as I goddamn well please! Thank you.

Feel free. I'd just like to point out that your cork will, as a direct result of your complete lack of prerequisites, suck monkey testicles.

If you want to be a moron, that's up to you, but don't go asking for advice on a trick you aren't ready for and get pissed off when we tell you just that.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go practice aerials as a means of getting over my fear of cartwheels. Good day to you.

[simon]

Fooorrr the glorryyy of theee empiiireee!

[Frostbite]

Feel free. I'd just like to point out that your cork will, as a direct result of your complete lack of prerequisites, suck monkey testicles.

If you want to be a moron, that's up to you, but don't go asking for advice on a trick you aren't ready for and get pissed off when we tell you just that.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go practice aerials as a means of getting over my fear of cartwheels. Good day to you.

yes! i'm out to try double backs on concrete now! that must help with the fear of backflip on the pavement.

[TartanPajamas]

yes! i'm out to try double backs on concrete now! that must help with the fear of backflip on the pavement.

Excellent! Now you're thinkin' with your ankle...or wherever it is that your brain is stationed...

[Frostbite]

naa it worked just fine. i am now able to backflip on the pavement just fine. i'm thinking in trying a btwist, but i guess it will be better to have a triplebtwist down first

[jan]

Once again...this is not what I said!


I said that using tricks in a fight is not impossible. The reason why, is that I've used them in fights before.


I did not say that everytime I do a trick I K.O. an opponent 70% of the time. I said that I can hit a target, which moves randomly, 70% of the time with certain tricks.


I did not say that everytime I get into a fight I throw tricks. That would be utterly ridiculous...


I did not say that I've knocked several people out with hyperhooks and Boxcutters on different occasions. I said that I've knocked people out with them before (i.e. one time I KO'd a person with a Hyperhook, and another time I KO'd a person with a Boxcutter). This has only happened once!


What does me being short have to do with anything! Me being short actually gives me more leverage to knock you out if anything...and just because I'm 5'6' doesn't mean that I don't have "knock out power". I may be relatively short, but I'm 176 lbs. and I'm fast. Not that I'm comparing myself to Bruce Lee, but he wasn't a very big person either. Are you saying that he doesn't have any "knock out power"?

Also, who told you I tried to Hyperhook a 6'3" tall guy? No one told you that...I do the appropriate tricks on the appropriate target. I wouldn't try to X-Out a person my height, because the kick would go over their heads! I wouldn't try to Hyperhook a person taller than me, because my foot would most likely travel into their torso, which doesn't pivot when it get's hit (like the head would)...I would fall if I did that.

Remember, my argument was that in a street fight, not a professionally staged fight, using a trick could work. So stop talking about professional Russian and Polish fighters, cause you're not going to be fighting that calibur of a fighter in a street fight...

Like I said before...I'm not freaking stupid (maybe a little crazy), but not stupid. I do these things because I'm confident in my abilities, and I want to see if/how it would work.



Originally Posted by sesshoumaru View Post
In all honesty, I've KO'd people with tricks before...though it's not as effective as basic/contemporary techniques, it can be used. Illusion Twist, Jacknife, Boxcutter, Hyperhook, Webster-axe, X-Out, C900, Envergado, Raiz, and Pop 720 Double are all moves I've used in street fights, and they've connected pretty cleanly...so it's not like it couldn't happen, cause I do it almost everytime.

Note: You have to be really strategic and clever to hit someone with these things. I can only do it because I have years & years of training under by belt, and I know what I'm doing!

Maybe I'll post some examplers in the future showing how to set an opponent up for getting hit with various tricks...

The fact that you're short makes the possibility of actually hitting someone in the head smaller, because you have to get in closer, and higher as well. Bruce Lee was short, but he was 5'8 (about 172-173 cm), which is still 2 inches taller than you. And he wasn't even doing 360s in fights, because he knew they wouldn't work. He sure had the power, but he also never kicked people in the head in a real fight.

[Skilzat85X]

but he also never kicked people in the head in a real fight.
Got any videos of Bruce Lee in an actual street fight? Not a movie, not a competition, not against other trained martial artists.

[Flowers]

You guessed right, I thought of your sampler when I posted my opinion :smile:

That whole minute made the vibe of my sampler completely different tho. Without the first part it would have just been another sampler, the other stuff added made it flavorful and unique.

[Andy Longcat]

All you people bitch and whine about how "it wouldn't work in the streets"


Straight up, people that fight you in the streets are morons. They don't really know how to fight. Don't believe me? YouTube "Street Fights." All you'll find is a bunch of dipshits swining like retards, hoping to God they'll hit something. Not everyone is a mixed martial artist. Few people know how to fight. Even fewer know the mechanics of fighting.

Anything that strikes at an opponent CAN be applied into a fight. 540s, btwist round, websters, etc. I really really doubt that if I got in a fight with a random chump, he'd do anything other than try to knock my fucking head off of my shoulders, in which case, he hooks me, I block, step in>elbow>clinch>knee>knee>knee>knee. What's stopping me from after that finishing him off by landing a double leg on him when he's laying on the ground?

SO everyone in here stop talking about your fucking fairytale world where everyone is a fucking PRIDE fighter, becase that's NOT how it really is in the streets.

[TartanPajamas]

Good points, Andy.

And I'd like to point out that Sesshou is not trying to convince us that tricking in a fight is practical, just that it can be done.

[Skilzat85X]

All you people bitch and whine about how "it wouldn't work in the streets"


Straight up, people that fight you in the streets are morons. They don't really know how to fight. Don't believe me? YouTube "Street Fights." All you'll find is a bunch of dipshits swining like retards, hoping to God they'll hit something. Not everyone is a mixed martial artist. Few people know how to fight. Even fewer know the mechanics of fighting.

Anything that strikes at an opponent CAN be applied into a fight. 540s, btwist round, websters, etc. I really really doubt that if I got in a fight with a random chump, he'd do anything other than try to knock my fucking head off of my shoulders, in which case, he hooks me, I block, step in>elbow>clinch>knee>knee>knee>knee. What's stopping me from after that finishing him off by landing a double leg on him when he's laying on the ground?

SO everyone in here stop talking about your fucking fairytale world where everyone is a fucking PRIDE fighter, becase that's NOT how it really is in the streets.

I said that already. Tehehe.

Word up bro.

[jan]

Got any videos of Bruce Lee in an actual street fight? Not a movie, not a competition, not against other trained martial artists.

First of all, I've seen old clips of him in black/white. It was on Napster.

Second, Lee himself said that high kicks were not preferred.

[Skilzat85X]

Cool.


Ok that doesn't really back up your point much but WHO CARES! Bruce Lee could have punched the niggasfood out of anyone so he wouldn't need crap haha.

[jan]

True, he was a decent fighter.

Using tricks in a fight is still as useless as using a badly knitted sweater made out of thin paper though.

[Andy Longcat]

True, he was a decent fighter.

Using tricks in a fight is still as useless as using a badly knitted sweater made out of thin paper though.

If you're fighting CROCOP maybe

[jan]

... or any average dude on the street who lifts weights and thinks he's a badass. A hyperhook won't do much, really.

[Skilzat85X]

Jan you're forgetting! People like me, Sessh, and Andy; live in America!

Our streets aren't filled with strapping, weight-lifting, confident respectable gentlemen. They're full of fat lazy unathletic stupid niggs. Haha.

[Andy Longcat]

... or any average dude on the street who lifts weights and thinks he's a badass. A hyperhook won't do much, really.

I live in a pretty shitty neighborhood, and the person you've just described is the same person who only knows how to hook at your face.

I would know. I see them all the time.

[TKD_Andy]

i think this calls for a grand master bad-ass motherfucking...

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/TKD_andy/asfasfasg.jpg

[Flowers]

I live in the country. If you aren't fat and overweight, your built from working on the farm. Everyone Rassles but no one knows how to really fight

[jan]

The fact taht they don't know how to do a wheelkick at head height doesn't exclude the fact that setting up (from a standstill), like.. dipping down, then jumping, then spinning for half a second - a second, then extending the kick takes too much time, and any normal person would pretty much ram you in the middle of the move.

What do you think would happen if you jumped up, hovered in the air for about half a second while getting your fist ready to strike, about 1 foot from the other dude? Do you think he'd go "dohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, he's gonna attack me... *..............................SLAM*" ?

[Flowers]

most people will be so shocked that your spinning in the air to react quick enough.

[orichiu]

suckerpunches ftw.

[Kyukodo Gaz]

i think this calls for a grand master bad-ass motherfucking...

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/TKD_andy/asfasfasg.jpg

LMFAO!!!


HAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHAHHHAHHHAHHAHAHhahahahhahhahhahah hhahahhahahaa.........

ahhhhhh.

[TKD_Andy]

haha its actually my black belt tied around my head... i originally posted it in the 'does a blackbelt give you magic powers' thread.

[Kyukodo Gaz]

Classic! It obviously did give you magic powers! I love it!

[Andy Longcat]

The fact taht they don't know how to do a wheelkick at head height doesn't exclude the fact that setting up (from a standstill), like.. dipping down, then jumping, then spinning for half a second - a second, then extending the kick takes too much time, and any normal person would pretty much ram you in the middle of the move.

What do you think would happen if you jumped up, hovered in the air for about half a second while getting your fist ready to strike, about 1 foot from the other dude? Do you think he'd go "dohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, he's gonna attack me... *..............................SLAM*" ?


Jesu Cristo.


For the 5121354123645178796575210 time, even IF someone were to do a trick in a fight, they probably wouldn't just jump into it. They would deal suffecient damage to allow themselves to do a fancier move.

Just because you're too scared to try it, doesn't mean it wouldn't work.

End of discussion.

[Jon P]

stupid thread. =/

[TartanPajamas]

This thread pwns.

[Dave]

most likely someone saw you setting up for a trick they would either flinch/not know how to react until its too late.

If i played basketball against some one who was shit, am i going to just keep doing layups? If i want to win, yes. If i want to challenge myself and make things interesting NO! I would be trying/experimenting with all sorts of different things and trying different streetball tricky things on them and what not.

I think that's what sess probably is like when he's in a fight with someone really bad, who campared to him is probably most people....

Just a thought, I dunno.

[TKD_Andy]

dude, comparing playing basketball to a streetfight is like saying you're bored of playing tennis with a tennis ball so you decide to play it with a grenade.

[Dave]

hey that gives me an idea...
I havnt had breakfast yet!

[JiayoJames]

What does transboglificatruns mean?

[Kyukodo Gaz]

dude, comparing playing basketball to a streetfight is like saying you're bored of playing tennis with a tennis ball so you decide to play it with a grenade.

LOL yeah! now that would be funny! How much of a rally could you get going before it blew up?

[Xenome]

The elitists know what I'm talking about. I might have stated it wrong, but they know. The rest of you are dead sperm if you will.

Tricking (The Way I Mean It) + Weapons = 2 * Win
Tricking (The Way I Mean It) + Hardened Body = Win

http://concordspedpac.org/Bell-curve-sm1.bmp

When someone tells you that you can't, they usually are just saying that because they have no hope of ever doing it themselves.

Fighting (In it's purest sense to me) means that it's your will against the enemy's will. Whoever fucks up first dies. Most people can't comprehend that fighting this way is simply a means to further discover more about oneself. Where are your limits?

All (100%) of the fights that I have seen posted online are shit. Imagine watching two ducks fight, and you will see what I see. When good fighters fight, it should be cherished. It represents two people, and all the effort they have put into figuring out who they themselves are, put against each other in a situation where there are no excuses. It is beautiful.

Bodily Strength, Flexibility, Toughness, etc. are simply results of the quest for self understanding. You take the limits before you, surpass them, and repeat. Each "level" gives you greater awareness and enlightenment.

[Skilzat85X]

You're ignorant and you probably can't even fight worth crap either haha.

This is tricking, go find your own sport.

[GSimp]

I like how most of you all reply with "You're a ____" I guess this is the only way to make yourselves feel good. Or at least it's your best attempt at a shitty argument.

[Skilzat85X]

I like how most of you all reply with "You're a ____" I guess this is the only way to make yourselves feel good. Or at least it's your best attempt at a shitty argument.

Can you even trick? Hmm?

Even worse, are you actually agreeing with that guy? Because if you are, it's obvious that you can't trick, given his definition of tricking.

[Final Prophecy]

Xenome...you are posting a SERIOUS rant with 2 posts...in the GENERAL TRICK DISCUSSION forum? How is anyone supposed to take you seriously? Both your posts have been in this thread, so therefore you haven't posted a sampler up here yourself. I haven't made a sampler, yet I keep my mouth shut about other peoples. I'll help out their tricks, but I wont tell them to not put their samplers up...

This is....EGREGIOUS for lack of a better word.

[GSimp]

I just think it's funny how most of the people who have posted against another forum member either make some random insult (You're gay! or You're an asshole!), or say "Ohh l0L you can't trick!" when they have never seen you before.

[jan]

The elitists know what I'm talking about. I might have stated it wrong, but they know. The rest of you are dead sperm if you will.

Tricking (The Way I Mean It) + Weapons = 2 * Win
Tricking (The Way I Mean It) + Hardened Body = Win

http://concordspedpac.org/Bell-curve-sm1.bmp

When someone tells you that you can't, they usually are just saying that because they have no hope of ever doing it themselves.

Fighting (In it's purest sense to me) means that it's your will against the enemy's will. Whoever fucks up first dies. Most people can't comprehend that fighting this way is simply a means to further discover more about oneself. Where are your limits?

All (100%) of the fights that I have seen posted online are shit. Imagine watching two ducks fight, and you will see what I see. When good fighters fight, it should be cherished. It represents two people, and all the effort they have put into figuring out who they themselves are, put against each other in a situation where there are no excuses. It is beautiful.

Bodily Strength, Flexibility, Toughness, etc. are simply results of the quest for self understanding. You take the limits before you, surpass them, and repeat. Each "level" gives you greater awareness and enlightenment.

You obviously haven't seen a real street fight up here. Every single fight I've seen consists basically of:

*rush into opponent, slamming him into the ground*

*ground and pound, one gets tired and ends up on his back*

*poundorama supreme by the guy on the top*


Most fights start off with someone pushing someone else. How can you do a 540 when someone's standing literally 2 inches from your nose? You push him, and he comes straight back, ready to punch. What would any sane person do? Punch him in the face. What would a trickster do? Do a friggin cheat900.

Hardly any fights, if any (except the stupid ones by the retard preteens online) start off from a distance. It's not as if the "HEY YOU, OVER THERE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROOM! YEAH YOU! YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE!" *flying kick HAIYAAAAA* - scenario is normal.

And really, tricking isn't exactly close-combat fighting.

[Nuh-Goo-Yen]

You know what I dislike a lot in the tricking world... people complaining, who nobody knows, has no credentials or skills to back it up, who think they know everything.

[Jon P]

I really dislike this thread.

So far its been Jan talking about how pro fighters dont do tricks, therefor tricks are obvious a stupid thing to do in a fight. (which is true) And how 5' 9" is tall and 180 is heavy (news to me, my shortest friend is about that height)

And then stupid bruce lee wanna-be teens talking about fighting philosophy.

woah, thats about annoying dont yah think?

[Steve]

If somebody tried to 540 me I'd pick them up in mid air and throw them into the ground.

[jan]

I really dislike this thread.

So far its been Jan talking about how pro fighters dont do tricks, therefor tricks are obvious a stupid thing to do in a fight. (which is true) And how 5' 9" is tall and 180 is heavy (news to me, my shortest friend is about that height)

And then stupid bruce lee wanna-be teens talking about fighting philosophy.

woah, thats about annoying dont yah think?

5'9 and 180 lbs is tall and heavy for a trickster. Most tricksters age from 14-19, are about 5'4-5'7 and weigh from 125-140 lbs.


But yes, this thread is stupid. I still can't believe how people can actually think tricks can be done practically in a real street fight. Jesus Christ.

[TKD_Andy]

5'9 and 180 lbs is tall and heavy for a trickster.

you do know shengoikee is 6 foot and weighs around 190lbs?

also i cant see sess being much, if at all under 6 foot and around the same weight.

its not really about how tall and heavy you are its the skill you have. Look at G-dong and Renney. Theyre big guys, but theyre good trickers.

I know you're not trying to say that bigger people cant trick, but i jst wanted to throw this out there.

[Jon P]

Sess is shorter actually.
Sess is probably around 5' 6" - 7"...
5'9 is about average as far as the tricksters I have met.

[jan]

you do know shengoikee is 6 foot and weighs around 190lbs?

also i cant see sess being much, if at all under 6 foot and around the same weight.

its not really about how tall and heavy you are its the skill you have. Look at G-dong and Renney. Theyre big guys, but theyre good trickers.

I know you're not trying to say that bigger people cant trick, but i jst wanted to throw this out there.

Exceptions. I'm about 5'9-5'10 and about 180 lbs myself. I never mentioned skill level either, I just said the majority of tricksters are young, short and skinny.

[TKD_Andy]

i hate these young trickers... man i wish i started when i was like 12 now... bastards.

[Jon P]

I started when I was about 15 I think. Thats kinda young.

[TKD_Andy]

tbh i started pissing around doing it when i was about 16ish (i think :eh:) but didnt really take it seriously until i was almost 18.

[TartanPajamas]

I started at fifteen. You'd think I woulda learned some kicks by now...

[simon]

i started 12.
hoes.
i couldn't do anything on the ground till i was late 13 though haha.

[Steve]

I started and basically ended at 13/14.

[Skilzat85X]

I started a month before I turned 16.

[simon]

skilz your avatar change has confused me.
a little like tartanpjs getting one.=/

[TartanPajamas]

skilz your avatar change has confused me.
a little like tartanpjs getting one.=/

Sorry, if you send me a gif. of the moonface avatar, I'll change it back.

[simon]

Sorry, if you send me a gif. of the moonface avatar, I'll change it back.
nah im half used to it now.

[TartanPajamas]

nah im half used to it now.

Just like my avatar is half the number of legs I can 540 kick with. :smile:

[simon]

Just like my avatar is half the number of legs I can 540 kick with. :smile:
I cant 540 hohoho

[AJCN]

Where is the martial arts in tricking now days? ...You wanna see a good tricking video? Watch this shit...



Those are MA videos! Not tricking! Do you watch trickers and think "OMG! There not hurting anyone! What's going on with this n00bs. Wheres all the grabs and takedowns"

[Scott]

Those are MA videos! Not tricking! Do you watch trickers and think "OMG! There not hurting anyone! What's going on with this n00bs. Wheres all the grabs and takedowns"

That's what I think when I watch samplers, yes.