Need some help with cheat 720 twist please

[Pirate!!]

I normally don't ask for advice, I like to try and figure things out for my self but... this trick is causing me serious problems lol. Any way heres a quick video if you could give me all the advice possible and how im doing it wrong would be great. I feel kind of close but then again really far away from landing it. Thanks a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmrkyixfCM8

should be up soon.

[Matt K]

Uhh.. You might want to trash that set-up. Just go from the "walking position" (I think it's called) that TKD Andy uses in a bunch of his tutorials. (540 one explains it the best if you don't know what it is.) Also practice on a mat! My ass has taken some crazy beatings because of that damned c720 twist.

Less Than Dan has a good tutorial for it. I don't know exactly where to find it. He should be here with advice fairly soon anyway. Good luck!

[Pirate!!]

Yeah i had a look at that tutorial kind of helped but i still drill my self into the ground lol. The set ups a bit dodgy i admit but at the time i felt more comfortable trying it from a dodgy tornado kick. Any way I was trying to do more of a raiz and twist and that seemed remotely better.. Its annoying because almost every rash is the same lol and it hurts.. Ahh well.

[Matt K]

Haha! Tell me about it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=M3dofga7NuY

[Pirate!!]

haha damn yeah it feels so weird.. I might give it another shot. Its a trick ive never really worked on just tried every now and then..

[Pirate!!]

ive found out its easier to spin faster from a small run but winds the shit out of you lol

[Ambitrixterous]

Pirate you need to SET in this move- without a set you're just falling upwards. As you takeoff, pull UP (raiz takeoff) and into the spin like McJizzle's takeoff and hold until you've finished the move... whenever you have trouble with this practice the hell out of a raiz because after all it is a raiz twist!

McJizzle in that clip you opened up too early! (and it would'nt hurt to put a little more into the UP part of it)

Hope this helps guys!

[BboyAgua]

u dont look ready for this move. im not trying to put u down but training like that is gonna get u injured in a hurry. in my opinion u should have a good sideswipe jackknife before a C7twist. many trickers execute a by throwing one and instead of throwing the hook, rotate the extra half (especially anis, he really fakes many ppl out cuz it looks like hes gonna c7twist but hooks instead). IMO its the same difficulty and u can train it without getting fucked up if the hook doesnt come out clean. its really the same principal as doing timer-layouts before throwing a double back. if u cant do a timer u kno u cant do a double back, so why wouldnt u safely find out if u can double back before trying?

btw if ur confused why i say sideswipe jackknife, when like dan sez it really is a raiz twist, is cuz i just dont kno wut to call a horizontal C7hook. plus, if ur able to swipe during the timer, its gonna make extra sure u can land the c7twist. but if the swiping leg is tucked in i wouldnt worry too much.

[Pirate!!]

yeah i wasnt too sure how to do this move.. from a tornado set or a raiz set or side swipe. I'm pretty durable lol i take any beatings. But cheers i'll probably leave it for a while any way.

[TKD_Andy]

Just go from the "walking position" (I think it's called) that TKD Andy uses in a bunch of his tutorials.

!

Walking stance: 1 shoulderwidth wide 1 1/2 shoulderwidths long :good:

[Less than Dan]

:) Here, let me extend a few ideas..?

Firstly, Agua, I wouldn't go as extreme as saying a good sideswipe jack-knife is needed (I can't even do those :-D), but a firm and stable grasp of the 540 is most certainly a pre-requisite. As well, may I suggest a very comfortable, tight, and strong b-twist, or even a hypertwist? A hypertwist, in my opinion, is a fine move to learn because it teaches the principles of "over-rotating" a twist, teaching you how hold a twist tightly as long as possible.

Now, with that out of the way...

Pirate, I want to help :) Let me start from the top.
The cheat720twist requires a very powerful set up. I see you're trying to start things off from your tornado kick, and that may be fine. However, ask yourself this: which can you do more powerfully and comfortably? A spin hook or a tornado? Many of us perfer the spin hook for it's simplicity and it's uncanny ability to set our body up for further moves, but if you feel more comfortable with a tornado, then more powerful to you.

Now, think of this move this way, since you're using a tornado: think about throwing your knee up as hard as you can in your tornado kick. Throw it up, try to knee yourself in your face, let your body travel as UP as possible, then kick! Now, apply this to your cheat720twist. It may never seem like it, but the cheat720twist is the big evil brother of the tornado, the most gentle of the group of 540-esque moves. Apply the concepts of an excellent tornado kick to this move as well. Many of the aspects of the basic tornado kick can translate well into a cheat720twist.

Now, on your take off, be sure to use and dip with your arms at an angle, and throw them up powerfully. Keep them stiff and raised when you first lift from the ground, in coinjunction of your knee being thrown up as strongly as possible. Now, I want you to see the sky for a split second, and then throw a hook and an elbow (with your arms respectively), and turn your head over to the direction your twisting. Yes, this will scare the shit out of you, and you'll crash the first few times, but this is necessary for learning how to spot the end of this move.

You're not getting much height, so you need to really power upward with your arms and knee, and also, push your hips up by clenching your ass cheeks :-D Works very well, it'll help level your body and aid you in building height.
For your twist, you're letting go far too early. I remember when I first learned this move, I applied the aspects of a hyper-twist. In fact, for the first time I landed this move correctly, I remember telling myself "over-twist and pull over like a hypertwist", and it worked well. Just like the hypertwist, this move will happen, the leg will come out, and you'll land comfortably if you just force yourself to spin that last 180 degrees and land it. Your body will adjust and force itself to land, and the worst that will happen is you'll land on your hands and knees.

There are multiple ways to go about this move: you can treat this move like a 540, or like a raiz. In the 540 method, take it up and strong like a 540, and then twist it through once you feel weightless. Like a raiz, dip and pull up with your arms until you see the ceiling for a spilt second, and then twist.
This move takes a lot of trial and error. However, the move is directly inflenced by how strong the take-off is. Eventually, through practice, you'll get this move :) Just keep going, add more power to your movements, tweak your takeoff, and try to "over-twist".

Good luck, Pirate!

[Pirate!!]

Thanks a lot. Great advice. Its funny how I feel more comfortable twisting to my right when for my btwist I twist to my left.. Maybe I should try and ch 720 the same way as my btwist would that help ?

[Kyukodo Gaz]

http://www.kyukodo.com/images/c720twist.gif

I'm not posting another thread, and the advice given by LTD is always great, I thought I would ask for some help aswell. I'm definitely getting there, I've landed one on my knee and hand off camera, but I don't know how to improve it. Help!

[Ambitrixterous]

[QUOTE=Kyukodo

I'm not posting another thread, and the advice given by LTD is always great, I thought I would ask for some help aswell. I'm definitely getting there, I've landed one on my knee and hand off camera, but I don't know how to improve it. Help![/QUOTE]

Gaz ya gotta SET, UP and into the spin! More UP, more SET you are very close.
TO FIX SET: try working on raiz where you get as high as possible and finish the move as early as possible, timing where you'd pull the spin (pretty much as you takeoff) but the earlier you can finish the raiz the better.
TO FIX HEIGHT: make a concious effort to put your chest and hips up AS you leave the ground!

*these tips should work for Pirate's gif too*

[Kyukodo Gaz]

thanks dan, i'll work on the height and try and cut the lateral movement. Much appreciated! I know it sounds weird, but I don't think 'set' at all in my kicking and twisting stuff, maybe I should start!!! I always think it on my flip stuff, but that is so not enough. I tricked with Alpha the other week and he got me setting properly for my doubleleg and my btwist. helped a hella lot. i guess I should just begin to apply across the board.

[Pirate!!]

haha man this move just feels weird.. Thanks for all the advice guys hopefully I'll nail it.. I'll work on the height and stuff before i start to practice twisting it.

[Kyukodo Gaz]

Dan, any chance of some feedback (less than I mean)?