quads do next to nothing for your vert

[pete_man_man]

i know most people here know that quads aren't the main muscle used for jumping, but am i right in saying (because i've come to the conclusion) that your quads only really are there to assist LANDING and have almost nothing to do with getting off the ground?

i came to this conclusion after months and months of squats resulting in no vert increase but less impact on landing, and then only two weeks of single leg hyperextensions resulting in grass hopper legs. (well for me they might as well be grasshopper legs).

so does anyone else agree? or is it just a fluke?

[chicanerous]

They're more important than calves, but less important than glutes and hamstrings, which are the primary movers.

[compleks]

Maybe your posterior chain was lacking, and that's what was holding back your vert.

[pete_man_man]

Maybe your posterior chain was lacking, and that's what was holding back your vert.

it always has kinda sucked since i neglected it. But i made my own little hyperextension machine and that soon sorted my problem.

but i still think the quads' use is limited to just landing, or at least lifting yourself from a squatted position to a standing upright position, then the hams take over from there or something.

[compleks]

Knee extension is vital to getting yourself off the ground.

You cannot jump without them.

[Benji]

Of course squats help your jump. That's the motion you use when you jump.

[twist]

? I know that to jump you use pretty much all your leg and hip muscles but why would the hams be more imortant than the quads? cause obviously knee extension is a key part of your jump.

Are the hamstrings more involved in the hip extension?

[chicanerous]

? I know that to jump you use pretty much all your leg and hip muscles but why would the hams be more imortant than the quads? cause obviously knee extension is a key part of your jump.

Are the hamstrings more involved in the hip extension?
Yes. The quads come in during the knee extension, but it's the rapid and powerful hip extension that really powers the jump. Hip extension is controlled by the hamstrings and glutes.

http://www.exrx.net/Articulations/Hip.html

[pete_man_man]

Of course squats help your jump. That's the motion you use when you jump.

when you jump you don't stop dead once your legs are extended do you?

so squatting is not the motion you use when you jump.:cool:

unless you jump at the top of the squat that is... could be interesting... or dangerous:juji:

[Benji]

Yeah, but you also don't just extend your hips and nothing else. Both squats and posterior chain exercises work the best for creating a good vertical.

[pete_man_man]

Yeah, but you also don't just extend your hips and nothing else. Both squats and posterior chain exercises work the best for creating a good vertical.

have squats worked for you?

[chicanerous]

when you jump you don't stop dead once your legs are extended do you?

so squatting is not the motion you use when you jump.:cool:

unless you jump at the top of the squat that is... could be interesting... or dangerous:juji:
Jumping out of a squat is an exercise. It's called a jump squat and it is quite common in athletic programs.

Alright, here we go: :dead:

A jump involves both knee and hip extension. Hip extension is controlled by the hamstrings and glutes, while knee extension is controlled by the quads. Since a squat strengthens both the quads and glutes and, to a lesser degree the hamstrings, it's very applicable to increasing your vertical. In addition, the squat offers another benefit that a deadlift usually does not -- eccentric loading and a stretch reflex. Storing potential energy and converting it into kinetic energy plays a huge role in a successful jump.

Despite all of this, the quads don't play as large of a role as the hamstrings do in a jump. As a result, a movement that strengthens the hamstrings and glute simultaneously, rather than the quads and glutes, is going to have a bit greater of an impact on one's vertical. In a good training program, both squats and deadlifts should be used as both are important in developing one's vertical.

As far as your case, two weeks is not normally enough time to significantly improve one's vertical through strength-training alone. It's likely that the gains you've seen are a result of strengthening a weak muscle group. As you've said, you've neglected the posterior chain. Nothing magic or miraculous has happened. It's likely you would have seen the same short term results from merely adding any other strong hip-dominant exercise into your program.

i know most people here know that quads aren't the main muscle used for jumping, but am i right in saying (because i've come to the conclusion) that your quads only really are there to assist LANDING and have almost nothing to do with getting off the ground?
Actually, landing or footfall during jumps or sprints at higher forces uses the hamstrings more than it does quads. This is because you're resisting an eccentric motion when you land. The quads are important to the vertical jump because they generate concentric force to rapidly extend the knee.

[Benji]

Squats brought my jump to a whole new level. They worked wonders.

[Ashtar]

If all you do is leg extensions then I can imagine them not improving, sure, because they work in connection with the others, especially if you train movements that do work them together like squats.

[Gusch]

the best weight-exercises for jumping imo are cleans and powercleans.
And surely not leg extensions.. Oo

[Ashtar]

Maybe leg extensions would help if you were jumping and then kicking something.

[twist]

how well do cleans work the hamstrings? vs squats

[chicanerous]

how well do cleans work the hamstrings? vs squats
Cleans work the hamstrings a lot better than the squat, obviously. They're much more hip-dominant, where as squats are much more quad-dominant.

I don't like recommending the Olympics to most people though. This is for two reasons: 1) their technique isn't good enough (which makes it impossible to lift progressively as form degrades at heavier weights) and 2) their base of strength isn't great enough. You can sort of get around the first problem by using high pulls, etc. and eliminating the catch, but, IMO, most people will see better results focusing on maximal strength work and pulling and squatting fast at lower intensities.