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sesshoumaru
Mar-06-07, 01:54 PM
Rhythm
an ordered recurrent alternation of strong and weak elements in the flow of related media. In other words...fluctuation.

The importance of rhythm in context with tricking combinations is extremely important. Often times, a combo of high difficulty will look "bland" if the rhythm of the combination is too consistant.

When referring to tricking, the concept of rhythm is universal. To acheive harmonious movement, the tricks must flow together seamlessly; but vary in design.

Take this combo for example:

540 > Sideswipe > Hypertwist > Suicideswipe

If you were to analyze it, it would look like this:

.........................Type..........Direction.. ...Target....Speed....Height......Hit(s)

540...................spin (540).._right.............high.........fast....... .moderate....1
Sideswipe.........invert........_right............ .high.........fast........moderate....1
Hypertwist......_twist (540)._right.............N/A.........medium._moderate.._0
Suicideswipe...-invert........_right.............high......._fast. ......-low.............1

This is a very respectable combo, and though combo is composed of different tricks...it's still the same trick (the "hyper"). On top of that, the rhythm of 3 "descriptive catagories" (type, direction, and height) is whack.


Look at this combo:

C720 > Sideswipe > Loser

If you were to analyze it, it would look like this:

.........................Type..........Direction.. ...Target....Speed....Height......Hit(s)

C720.................spin (720).._right.............high.........fast....... .moderate....1
Sideswipe.........invert........_right............ .high.........fast........moderate....1
Loser......-......._flip............_forward.........N/A........-fast.......-low..........._0

This combo isn't as hard or as long as the one mentioned above, but it's rhythm is more complex/sporadic. Out of all the "descriptive catagories" only one (speed) is constant, and the "type" doesn't repeat at all.

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Q: Well what could we have changed in the first combo to make it more appealing?

A: A number of things...transitions could of been used, subsitutions could have been made, additional tricks could be added, etc.

Transitional Remedy
540 > scoot > Sideswipe > Hypertwist > Suicideswipe

The scoot will alter the tempo of the combo in two ways: 1) it'll prolong the duration of the combo as a whole 2) it'll make the Sideswipe appear more explosive. This remedy will make the type, target, speed, height, and hit(s) change. Though it will improve the rhythm of some of them it'll worsen the rhythm of others...the win-win is that it also adds style.

Subsitutional Remedy
540 > Jacknife > Hypertwist > Suicideswipe

The Jacknife used in subsitution of the Sideswipe will mainly alter the hit(s) and type characteristic, which also influences the speed.

Add-on Remedy
540 > stepover hook > Sideswipe > Hypertwist > Suicideswipe

Even though the stepover hook is a basic movement, it facilitates the same purpose as a scoot would (momentum)...it's just more offensive. Like the "transitional sub. example", it has pros and cons; but it adds a narabong effect which is a plus. It also breaks up the monotony of kicking with the same leg repeatedly.

In other words

Think of combo's like music. Every movement you do is congruent to a musical note. Good sounding guitar riffs aren't made by repeating the same note over and over again. It takes fluctuation on multiple levels to create a nice sound.


::DO NOT QUOTE THIS POST, PLEASE::

pete_man_man
Mar-06-07, 02:01 PM
never have i been more tempted to quote a post... but it would seem my respect for you outweighs this urge. nice write up dude!

Meegz
Mar-06-07, 02:01 PM
Sessh, did the flow/monkflisp battle inspire this?

I am eager to see what is involved in the next volume :]

AndyLeTerrible
Mar-06-07, 02:02 PM
i thought a loser is backwards in direction? webster-forwards, loser-backwards? eh

Meegz
Mar-06-07, 02:06 PM
webster and loser are both in the same direction, rotationally...

pete_man_man
Mar-06-07, 02:08 PM
i thought a loser is backwards in direction? webster-forwards, loser-backwards? eh

what's more confusing is that the term "gainer" comes from the gaining of momentum with the kicking leg, so going by that logic the term "loser" would come from the losing of momentum from the kicking leg. i see not how this makes sense.

Meegz
Mar-06-07, 02:12 PM
I thought the term gainer came from the ground gained during the flip? And loser from the ground lost.....

shengoikee
Mar-06-07, 02:12 PM
a sideswipe is where a car falls over haha. no tricking name makes sense! haha :wink:

this looks interesting so far sessh :good:

shengoikee
Mar-06-07, 02:19 PM
i finished reading. this is great. =)

makes a loooot of sense in a lot of situations so probly one of the best documents youv made so far. 5 stars!

pete_man_man
Mar-06-07, 02:26 PM
umm don't think so men haha, with the loser you're still gaining the momentum by swinging your leg, just swinging it back to aid the forward rotation :] i just got confused by thinkijng "the direction of the move" but sesshoumaru meant direction of the spin

i know that isnt actually what a loser is, i'm just saying that if we were consistant with the terminology then that is what "loser" would mean

Dark Twista
Mar-06-07, 03:35 PM
Beautiful very well done! I'm hoping that Volume two will come out very soon! it makes sense if you look at your sampler sessh, Your tricks are great but the rythm of the music makes your tricks look so much more powerfull. And last but not least... sideswipe to a webster would look really weird... unless your sessh:juji:


Websters Rule :cool::ninja:

Ambitrixterous
Mar-06-07, 03:48 PM
... I think I speak for everyone here when I say...


WHAT!?!?!

jk man this is great and easily one of those elements of tricking that is as difficult to describe as it is to master. If you have stuff like this in permanent form I'd love to host it on the site- I got a whole section for you!

Shadow_Warrior
Mar-06-07, 04:00 PM
I just want my aerial :ogre:

Zorilla
Mar-06-07, 09:08 PM
your articles never cease to amaze me sessh

the depth and time and insight!

in the great words of bill and ted "whoa."

Tony Nguyen
Mar-06-07, 10:24 PM
damnit man i wanna quote it sooooo bad

Scott
Mar-06-07, 10:58 PM
Why do you not want your post quoted?

sesshoumaru
Mar-06-07, 11:01 PM
It'll screw up the formatting of the tables. I sized them to fit the largest span possible without skewing the information. If you quote it, it'll force the same information into a smaller span...thus fucking it up.

I'm really critical when it comes to the design of things, just a pet-peeve of mine (good thing is that it helps my tricking). If you must quote...quote a segment of the post (that's not a table).

Scott
Mar-06-07, 11:14 PM
I see. Yeah, when I went into Advanced there were certainly a lot of tags.

Shaolin.dk
Mar-06-07, 11:20 PM
How can a hypertwist be 540 degrees, and c720, 720 degrees?:eh:

sesshoumaru
Mar-06-07, 11:33 PM
::The tricks aren't finished until you return to stance::

Hypertwist

360-degrees is spent in the air, then a "switch" occurs, from that landing it takes 180-degrees to return to stance.
360 + 180 = 540

C720

180-degrees occupies the set-up, 360-degrees is spent in the air, but an additional 180-degrees is needed to return to stance once the kick has struck the target.
180 + 360 + 180 = 720

TartanPajamas
Mar-07-07, 12:11 AM
I disagree. I think we should only judge a move based on how much rotation is performed in the air. This is why I like Tejada's system more than the one we are currently using.

sesshoumaru
Mar-07-07, 12:18 AM
Yeah, DPT's system is easier to understand than what has been accepted as a standard in today's tricking terminology. However, I believe that he has no intention of replacing that terminology; only having a different means of "thinking" about them so that they may be easier for beginners to understand.

cepopeye
Mar-07-07, 12:29 AM
Yeah, DPT's may be easier for beginners to understand.

oh ho!

TartanPajamas
Mar-07-07, 12:44 AM
I understand the current terminology pretty well, in my opinion. I still have a problem with calling a move a 1080 when you only spin 2.5 times, and calling it a 900 when you only spin 1.5 times. Takeoff or no takeoff, 900 is downright false advertisement!

fusion
Mar-07-07, 12:58 AM
wow that was awsome! man i loved it! cant wait for more of your stuff to come!

Shaolin.dk
Mar-07-07, 01:11 AM
::The tricks aren't finished until you return to stance::

Hypertwist

360-degrees is spent in the air, then a "switch" occurs, from that landing it takes 180-degrees to return to stance.
360 + 180 = 540

C720

180-degrees occupies the set-up, 360-degrees is spent in the air, but an additional 180-degrees is needed to return to stance once the kick has struck the target.
180 + 360 + 180 = 720


I agree with the c720 now..

But in a hypertwist, u would land on your back before spinning 540 degrees.

sesshoumaru
Mar-07-07, 01:56 AM
There is a difference in Btwist Gyro and Hypertwist; however, a Hypertwist has 540-degrees of rotation in it's execution.

sesshoumaru
Mar-07-07, 02:07 AM
I understand the current terminology pretty well, in my opinion. I still have a problem with calling a move a 1080 when you only spin 2.5 times, and calling it a 900 when you only spin 1.5 times. Takeoff or no takeoff, 900 is downright false advertisement!

It's different for vertical spin moves...

Look at this (http://trickstutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20362&page=4) thread and refer to post 32 & 36...

jiayo-chris
Mar-07-07, 03:01 AM
Thanks sesh, this thread has been a great help =].

Scalco
Mar-07-07, 03:29 AM
Awesome post once again man! This will help me a lot. (even though I kinda knew some of that) Thanks for putting it into way more detail!

TartanPajamas
Mar-07-07, 04:09 AM
It's different for vertical spin moves...

Look at this (http://trickstutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20362&page=4) thread and refer to post 32 & 36...

I suppose that is a simple way of naming kicks, but I still don't like it (the false advertisement thing). So for inside kicks would we start at 540 (one kick) and go from there?

sesshoumaru
Mar-07-07, 06:51 AM
Yup...

TartanPajamas
Mar-07-07, 06:59 AM
Ok, thanks!

But what would you call a 360 gyro inside crescent? I've heard pop 900 double, but that could mean double inside crescent...argh...

Dave C
Mar-07-07, 07:07 AM
Ok, thanks!

But what would you call a 360 gyro inside crescent? I've heard pop 900 double, but that could mean double inside crescent...argh...

continue calling it a gyro. A gyro is a non-specific turn referencing any extra rotation (usually a 360). In the old IMC Templer samp from 2003 there are a lot of btwist-gyros (they have the appearance of a 720 twist but the second rotation is verticle (or close to it). Hence why a 540gyro isn't a 900 even though they both consist of the same rotation and the same kick just at different places.

Usually if a gyro is more than a 360 whoever is referencing that will note it, i.e. I would say, "omfg that cat just did a 360 with a 720 gyro."

Which still sounds complicated, but that trick is pretty fucking complicated so I don't see what the problem is.

shengoikee
Mar-07-07, 07:14 AM
TP dont let it upset you haha. the names make sense in their own special way so you should love them just the way they are. :good:

Jon P
Mar-07-07, 07:17 AM
I disagree. I think we should only judge a move based on how much rotation is performed in the air. This is why I like Tejada's system more than the one we are currently using.

It may be more user-friendly but tricks come from martial arts. And in martial arts the technique isnt finished until you return to stance. Remember tricks is martial arts tricks.

Nuh-Goo-Yen
Mar-07-07, 07:30 AM
I agree with the c720 now..

But in a hypertwist, u would land on your back before spinning 540 degrees.

Sessh explained it pretty well... but first off, altho it is a horizontal spin, not all the "rotations" are all horizontal. Once the hyper leg touches the ground, you're not done yet, you "complete" the rotation by further turning [usually you're getting back to vertical by now] and stepping back. This step is crucial for tricks like hyperhook.

back on subject, I think this guide is very good because I always have to change a transition in a combo because I find out that theres a certain part that's more difficult then I had planned or it just doesn't work and so on and so on...

Shido
Mar-07-07, 07:31 AM
Remember tricks is martial arts tricks.

*high 5* Cheers to that brother! :beer:

maxx
Mar-07-07, 08:06 AM
wayy too much math for me in this thread. haha

Kyukodo Gaz
Mar-07-07, 12:37 PM
TP dont let it upset you haha. the names make sense in their own special way so you should love them just the way they are. :good:

soooooo right.

It may be more user-friendly but tricks come from martial arts. And in martial arts the technique isnt finished until you return to stance. Remember tricks is martial arts tricks.

Oh yeah! Preach it baby preach it!