im confused about gainers help please

[Anima]

ok so there seems to be two diffrent types of gainers and im just wondering have i got it wrong or something. ok so theres a type of slanted one which Andy does on his tutorial, but then i see on the club 540 tricktionary that a gainer is diffrent and more in a straight line. and then with the slant gainer or what ever its called, i dont know how you would be able to do things like 360 gainer and gainer x out help me understand please :eh:

[fusion]

if u wanna do 360 and x out ones then your gainers have to be straight

[Anima]

so two different tricks are called the same thing ?

[thereid]

When you say gainer you must specify[straight, reverse, J-step, standing]

[Dragonic MiKe]

When you say gainer you must specify[straight, reverse, J-step, standing]

Yes.

Also: Slant gainers aren't a real trick.

[Vaughnya]

when doing a j-step or spin set ups then your leg will swing to the side a little and that makes your body flip at a slant....if you do staight gainers or standing gainers your leg swings straight down and up and makes the gainer flip completely straight.

when you use j-step then your legs swings to the side a little which makes it easier to swing so thats why people that learn gainers use it. ill make a little video showing you this....ill post it later

[Skilzat85X]

Yes.

Also: Slant gainers aren't a real trick.

No that's stupid.

Maybe you just can't do them right haha.

[Surge]

Slant Gainers and Moon Kicks?
A difference?

[sesshoumaru]

A big differece...I actually shot an exampler this weekend (sat.). I'll post it when Gdong sends me the footage!

[Vaughnya]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULL_IAAtVX8

here it is...made this and hopefully you'll see the difference and what not to do.

moon kicks...you never do a flip, its like a cork without the twist so your simply turning (face always looking at the ground) while in air.

[Alexx]

Slant Gainers and Moon Kicks?
A difference?

moonkicks have a hook with the trailing leg as the body comes out of the gainer

[Dragonic MiKe]

No that's stupid.

Maybe you just can't do them right haha.

I achieve the look of a slant gainer when I feel my gainer flash goes badly wrong.

I guess a slanted gainer might have it's applications for certain combos (probably more simple to kick from a slant gainer than a completely straight gainer), but just on their own they usually look fugly.

[Skilzat85X]

I achieve the look of a slant gainer when I feel my gainer flash goes badly wrong.

I guess a slanted gainer might have it's applications for certain combos (probably more simple to kick from a slant gainer than a completely straight gainer), but just on their own they usually look fugly.
That's what you think... (http://www.flip-cast.com/slants.wmv)

You guys are obviously missing the entire point. We're not talking about stupid slanted gainers. We're talking about slant gainers that are INTENTIONALLY slanted and are supposed to be slant and look sexy when done right.

They are prerequisite for a nice corkscrew. You can learn to cork without them, but a powerful slant gainer can get you a nice horizontal corkscrew.

For example CrazyAsian does a very nice gainer slant here at :52
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW35PXaJEak
Now this may or may not be a moon kick. It's hard to tell whether he kicked his back leg out or whether it just flared out by nature of the move (this happens if you're doing it well).

Either way you guys don't know what you're talking about it seems haha. But it's ok. Just remember, just because a gainer is slanted doesn't make it a slant gainer. Hurray for stupid terminology.

[Dragonic MiKe]

Okay, your 'Slant gainer' is particularly amazing, but I would call it a gainer hook (it's pretty damn inverted). What most people refer to as a 'slant gainer' looks nothing like what you or crazy asian are doing. It usually looks no way near inverted and with no trace of a kick, if anything it's tucked.

[Skilzat85X]

Okay, your 'Slant gainer' is particularly amazing, but I would call it a gainer hook (it's pretty damn inverted). What most people refer to as a 'slant gainer' looks nothing like what you or crazy asian are doing. It usually looks no way near inverted and with no trace of a kick, if anything it's tucked.
I'm not kicking my leg just flares out since it's bent before. Like what happens with a b-twist like the time Jujimufu performs. I think this is what CrazyAsian is doing too because if he wanted to kick that shizzle you'd be able to tell haha. It's CrazyAsian he don't play around with no hoookz.

My slant gainer still needs work in that I shouldn't look at the ground as much on takeoff but oh well. I try to think of it almost like a b-kick from a gainer takeoff.

Sort of how like a corkscrew should almost be a b-twist from a gainer takeoff. Sessh will probably quote this part of my post and say "Yes Skilzat99x! That is what a corkscrew should be!"
<333

But in either case the legs should come up to about head level. Mine go above (especially in the first ones) so POO ON THEM.

Either way without an intentional hook I don't believe it can be a gainer hook.

A gainer hook would be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y1lqwvGcwk
At 2:20
Which I must learn soon haha

[Dragonic MiKe]

So your slant gainer isn't low enough to be considered a 'good' slant gainer? :tongue:

Hmm, that Steve Terada clip is very strange. He kinda kicks up sideways. Not my idea of a gainer hook. >_> I'd be tempted to call that a 'gainer sideflip hook'. But that would be silly. :eh:

Anyway, I'm still experimenting with my gainers and I haven't got around to learning corks. So I guess you win this argument by default.

[Alexx]

A gainer hook would be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y1lqwvGcwk
At 2:20
Which I must learn soon haha

surely thats a kick the moon / moonkick (slant gainer hook) if your into that terminology ?

mike when you say it's almost tucked in the slant gainer thing, do you mean this kind of style one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv4t6zcmjvk ?

[Skilzat85X]

Hmm, that Steve Terada clip is very strange. He kinda kicks up sideways. Not my idea of a gainer hook. >_> I'd be tempted to call that a 'gainer sideflip hook'. But that would be silly. :eh:

Well yea I'd call it a:
kick the moon / moonkick (slant gainer hook)
:juji:

mike when you say it's almost tucked in the slant gainer thing, do you mean this kind of style one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv4t6zcmjvk ?
Yea that's a slant gainer but whether you tuck or don't tuck makes no difference in it's name, only in how good it looks.

[Ambitrixterous]

This is a classic example of why terminology DOES matter- there are a few things going on here...

1. Kick the moon/moonkick is traditionally performed as a pseudoflash w/hook kick on the end

2. Slant gainer is a pseudoflash, of any kind.

3. The term "gainer" is really nothing by itself these days. It specifies more the kind of takeoff than an actual trick, but the general consensus seems to be that "gainer" is short for "gainer backflip" since it can be done with a flash, full, split, any of those at a slant... etc.

4. Gainer flashkick is DIFFERENT from a gainer pseudoflash.




All of these "slant" moves are derivatives of something called a "pseudoflip," a flip which is halfway between a backflip and a sideflip (more or less a 90 degree backflip.) It does not have its own axis because the rotation occurs around 2 already existing planes (Z & X axis).

1.CORKSCREW is to PSEUDOFLIP as:
BACKFULL is to BACKFLIP!

In other words, Skilzat99X is correct: "slant gainer" is indeed a separate trick, can be performed very well all by itself and often is. It's difficult to define in combination with the hook kick because so many people use the term "moon kick" when it's far from where it started...

As far as inversion in the flip, pseudoflip CAN be more or less inverted (as in skilz' and CA's examples) but often is performed while parallel to the ground...

I'm getting to this move in the tricktionary very soon so that the info will be readily available to all...