Round offs

[Duckzilla]

Are cartwheels really necessary in round offs? I find that i am not really cartwheeling the round off. My cartwheel looks like well it is a cartwheel with both of my legs really close together. Is this wrong? I do not have a video of it right now, but i will get it up soon.

[Skilzat85X]

YES.

[TKD_Andy]

i do my roundoff and cartwheel very very differently because theyre used for completely different things

[MasterSyrup]

Your legs should be straddled on a cart wheel and your hips over your head...Noted my hips don't get over my head most of the time. The round of is different entirely. Someone should do a nice Round off tutorial or something.

[Skilzat85X]

If you're doing both moves correctly your head will go over your hips in both of them, AND you will go from facing forwards to facing backwards at the completion of both of them.

[TKD_Andy]

dude, theyre really not that hard...

[shengoikee]

all i think about for either move is getting my upper body nice and forwards so i can donkey kick someone in the face behind me. that's the martial application of cartwheel and roundoff.

they are super duper easy. =)

[TKD_Andy]

that's the martial application of cartwheel and roundoff.


I have to admit i lol'd pretty hard at that

[shengoikee]

haha it's funny cos it's true =)

[TKD_Andy]

lol yeah, i heard forward rolls are only taught to 400th degree uber black belts due to their incredibly violent and realistic applications

[shengoikee]

eg kicking people in the nutz haha

edit: this topic deserves a new thread!
"applications of tricking"

[FatTricks]

I have to admit i lol'd pretty hard at that

Puahahaaaaaahahahahahahaahaa:tongue:

[TKD_Andy]

lol cartwheels etc arent tricks!

make one called 'fabricated applications of gymnastics moves' :good:

[shengoikee]

lol cartwheels etc arent tricks!

ARE TOO! LOL

[Duckzilla]

dude, theyre really not that hard...

No psh they are not hard at all. I just have been told by one gymnastics couch to do cartwheels in roundoffs. I just think that the cartwheel screws up the round off and you can not donkey kick as well when getting out of it.

[TKD_Andy]

lol there is nothing remotely like a 'donkey kick' in any sense in a cartwheel or roundoff you do realise.

[Duckzilla]

coach*

[Duckzilla]

No... My gymnastics coach always tells us to get that snap down in the roundoff as in the donkeykick.

[TKD_Andy]

do you actually know what a donkey kick is?

[Duckzilla]

well it doesn't have the entire donkey kick in it but it has the last part of the donky kick in it the snap down part. Correct? Or not? Baby the thing im thinking of is not a donkey kick.

[TKD_Andy]

heres the most basic explanation i can think of:

stand on both feet.
lift one knee up to 90'
lean forwards.
Stamp out behind you in a straight line.

voila. Donkey kick!

[Less than Dan]

Think of it this way:

A roundoff is entered like a front handspring, but transitions out like a back hand spring.

[Skilzat85X]

Think of it this way:

A roundoff is entered like a front handspring, but transitions out like a back hand spring.
I'd hate to say it but WRONG.

[Less than Dan]

Yeah, except that's how my gymnastics instructor taught me, and I can safely say that I get so much punch out of my roundoffs, that my instructors say that I easily have enough height for doubles.

I'm sorry if you don't feel it's the right way, but there is more than one effective way to do any given move.

[Skilzat85X]

You can't teach someone to roundoff by telling them to approach it like a front handspring. Because then they're going to put their hands down forwards and hope to somehow magically turn around and come out of it well.

It should be entered like a cartwheel and exited like a roundoff. Now I'm sure you're saying "oh ho ho skilzat, just because they both go from the front to the side to the back does not mean that you need to enter them the same."
And I'm going to say:
Wrong again! Let's take for example, the aerial and the brandy. The aerial is a cartwheel done with no hands, the brandy is a roundoff done with no hands. To LEARN TO BRANDY you need to LEARN TO AERIAL. You cannot learn a forward free walkover and expect to be able to turn that into a brandy. Oh ho no way.
But why? Why does this mean that we should enter a roundoff like a cartwheel? Shoulder/hand position! To end up coming out of the move like a back handspring, you have to go from facing forwards to facing backwards. Now you can put your hands down in front of you and try to flip over like a front handspring while turning, OR you can follow the same principle of converting an aerial to a brandy, which is to extend and exaggerate how far over you place your second arm. But pulling your second arm (shoulder really) over you're turning to the other side. This means you can land like a back handspring!
-----
Now I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "enter like a front handspring." When I think that I think hand placement of a front handspring, especially when you say not to enter it like a cartwheel. However the front handspring, roundoff, and cartwheel are all entered with the same positioning (they can be anyways) of feet and legs, if that's what you mean.
So yea, that part of the front handspring can be used if that's what you mean.

But when it comes to your total body, I would try to enter like a cartwheel. The entrance to a cartwheel (if you can do it right) has all of the dynamics of a roundoff, and then all you need to do is focus on the landing, which is an entirely different part.

[Less than Dan]

You can't teach someone to roundoff by telling them to approach it like a front handspring. Because then they're going to put their hands down forwards and hope to somehow magically turn around and come out of it well.

It should be entered like a cartwheel and exited like a roundoff. Now I'm sure you're saying "oh ho ho skilzat, just because they both go from the front to the side to the back does not mean that you need to enter them the same."
And I'm going to say:
Wrong again! Let's take for example, the aerial and the brandy. The aerial is a cartwheel done with no hands, the brandy is a roundoff done with no hands. To LEARN TO BRANDY you need to LEARN TO AERIAL. You cannot learn a forward free walkover and expect to be able to turn that into a brandy. Oh ho no way.
But why? Why does this mean that we should enter a roundoff like a cartwheel? Shoulder/hand position! To end up coming out of the move like a back handspring, you have to go from facing forwards to facing backwards. Now you can put your hands down in front of you and try to flip over like a front handspring while turning, OR you can follow the same principle of converting an aerial to a brandy, which is to extend and exaggerate how far over you place your second arm. But pulling your second arm (shoulder really) over you're turning to the other side. This means you can land like a back handspring!
-----
Now I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "enter like a front handspring." When I think that I think hand placement of a front handspring, especially when you say not to enter it like a cartwheel. However the front handspring, roundoff, and cartwheel are all entered with the same positioning (they can be anyways) of feet and legs, if that's what you mean.
So yea, that part of the front handspring can be used if that's what you mean.

But when it comes to your total body, I would try to enter like a cartwheel. The entrance to a cartwheel (if you can do it right) has all of the dynamics of a roundoff, and then all you need to do is focus on the landing, which is an entirely different part.


Well said and excellent insight.

Well, my comment wasn't so much of how the move is preformed, it was my coach's way of saying how to distribute the power. If you start out with power going in (I agree, by no means should this move be entered like a front hand spring) like a well-tuned front handspring, allow the body to "pull through" the movement like a cartwheel, and then exit with the relatable punch of a back hand spring, then the move is even more "relatable" and broken down.

So, yes, I guess what I said was horribly mis-translated, and I agree that it does sound ridiculous without explaination.

[Cicero]

If you're doing both moves correctly your head will go over your hips in both of them, AND you will go from facing forwards to facing backwards at the completion of both of them.

qtf. Cartwheels are basically roundoffs in which you don't land with both feet at the same time, however they use the same arm postioning.