View Full Version : Why is the Aerial such a pain in the a**!
Spacey
Jun-13-07, 10:37 AM
I'm having so much trouble with the aerials, and I don't think that my aerials are too weak. I think I should be able to land them if I just make the right technique that's why I turned here
Here is a pic of my aerial:
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5690/aerialxh7.jpg
And here is the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8tiicIbvcg
Spyder_V
Jun-13-07, 10:45 AM
I don't know, but to me that looked like a bkick with a forced aerial landing attempt.
I wish I could give you tips haha, but I sadly can't aerial either =P
Skilzat85X
Jun-13-07, 10:57 AM
Sad to say but you probably cannot cartwheel well enough yet.
RandyMintz
Jun-13-07, 11:11 AM
you are almost there bro, i think i see what your problem is, and its quite common. when you enter the aerial, you are driving your leg upwards and around, which is good. when you are near your landing, you can definitely tell that your leg is slowing down considerable. try looking forward towards your landing and you have to deliberately think of driving that landing leg with a continuous speed through the duration of the move. I have a tutorial in guides and write ups for more solutions
Spacey
Jun-13-07, 11:13 AM
you are almost there bro, i think i see what your problem is, and its quite common. when you enter the aerial, you are driving your leg upwards and around, which is good. when you are near your landing, you can definitely tell that your leg is slowing down considerable. try looking forward towards your landing and you have to deliberately think of driving that landing leg with a continuous speed through the duration of the move. I have a tutorial in guides and write ups for more solutions
Ahh yeah I've seen it. Thanks for the help Randy, your aerials are godly! :juji:
already been said lol..but whip your legs round
Sad to say but you probably cannot cartwheel well enough yet.
I seriously doubt this is the case. 'Drill cartwheels' is a horrible piece of advice; someone once told me to 'drill carts', whereas my problem was simply not understanding that -the movement is actually nothing like a cartwheel-. Cartwheels are cartwheels, aerials are aerials. The technique is nothing alike. Aerials just look like no-handed cartwheels, but they don't feel like them at all. Drilling dive cartwheels is another thing, which I strongly suggest, as it's very easy to morph them into actual aerials.
As for your problem:
Your kicking leg is nearly stopping in the middle of the movement. Do this: STOP concentrating on your hands, you don't even need to use them, focus on the kicking leg instead. Really FOCUS on IT, don't think about the hands at ALL. Reach forward with your shoulders and head, not UP. Forward. (OR you COULD dip, but it's not as good for the more advanced variations, so don't do it.) Straight forward, like an arrow. Also, this will turn your momentum into a quicker spin and/or a forward-type jump instead of just bouncing up like that, killing your spin. To elaborate on the "focus on your legs"-part, check out Pete-man-boy's aerials:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO3x2kWMHVg
- Ade
Skilzat85X
Jun-13-07, 12:27 PM
I seriously doubt this is the case. 'Drill cartwheels' is a horrible piece of advice; someone once told me to 'drill carts', whereas my problem was simply not understanding that -the movement is actually nothing like a cartwheel-. Cartwheels are cartwheels, aerials are aerials. The technique is nothing alike. Aerials just look like no-handed cartwheels, but they don't feel like them at all.
Yes they do you goofy. That's why my aerial owns yours.
You really don't understand the concept of aerials, because you'd realize that if he could cartwheel properly he would be able to lift his leg properly. He is not aligned in one particular direction, he goes off to the side. He doesn't even force the takeoff. He just sorta dives out there.
What are you even talking about. The motions of the legs comes from the motion of a cartwheel! DUH! They're identical you stupid. That's why you learn to do cartwheels, because when they're done right (well enough, like I suggested him to get them like) the motions of the legs are exactly identical (though more forceful) and you just have to do something with your arms.
Maybe the reason you couldn't get aerials from drilling cartwheels is because your cartwheels were CRAP and not done with proper technique that could be carried into aerials.
Learn to do cartwheels well and proper like Juji demonstrates in his example. Then use those motions to help learn an aerial.
Maybe that's why aerials are as easy as walking.
poliver
Jun-13-07, 12:39 PM
http://rutube.ru/tracks/76160.html?v=9375af0640cf3c82a5b21d813fa0a428
loled
Yes they do you goofy. That's why my aerial owns yours.
No they don't. And I don't know if your aerial owns mine. Might be. I haven't seen yours, so I can't argue. I can do brandies, a2as, but am yet to try reverse aerials or switches.
You really don't understand the concept of aerials, because you'd realize that if he could cartwheel properly he would be able to lift his leg properly.
Not true. Being able to cartwheel doesn't transfer into a correct understanding of the gymnastic aerial, as you are not using your hands, your upper body nor your legs the same way as you do in a cartwheel. The feeling of the movement is totally different and if you don't 'get' it, learning an aerial is hard and time-consuming. A cartwheel variation closest to an aerial would be what we in Capoeira call an 'au aguilia', which is pretty much a round-off-ish cartwheel with legs straddled.
I taught a friend of mine to aerial in five attempts, yet he hadn't EVER drilled cartwheels. This is a fact. The guy is a great athlete, though.
He is not aligned in one particular direction, he goes off to the side. He doesn't even force the takeoff. He just sorta dives out there.
This is true, partly. It clearly is a gymnastic aerial, though.
What are you even talking about. The motions of the legs comes from the motion of a cartwheel! DUH! They're identical you stupid. That's why you learn to do cartwheels, because when they're done right (well enough, like I suggested him to get them like) the motions of the legs are exactly identical (though more forceful) and you just have to do something with your arms.
Maybe the reason you couldn't get aerials from drilling cartwheels is because your cartwheels were CRAP and not done with proper technique that could be carried into aerials.
The feeling and the technique is different, the motion is similiar. It does not *feel* the same as a cartwheel.
Also, about my 'cartwheels being crap'. Yea, well, I dunno about that, as I had already been practicing capoeira for quite a while as well as been drilling carts from since I was a kid. Different kinds of cartwheels. Dives, one-handeds, stuff like that. So duh. Further, I learned the aerial IMMEDIATLY after I was told to do a diving cartwheel jump/roundoff-thingy, stalling my hands. IMMEDIATLY. This all after months of doing as what I saw as a "no-handed cartwheel", a side2side trickster aerial if you will. So obviously, the problem was NOT with my cartwheels.
Learn to do cartwheels well and proper like Juji demonstrates in his example. Then use those motions to help learn an aerial.
Maybe that's why aerials are as easy as walking.
I would say cartwheels do help you to a POINT, but drilling them continously does not really give you any idea of what the aerial feels like. One-handed cartwheels and dive cartwheels, on the other hand, are much better for that.
"Aerials are as easy as walking"? Please. Everyone's different. Aerial divides people a LOT, it's hard as hell for some. Don't patronize.
- Ade
The angle on the picture makes it look really high.
the way i learnt aerial is:
cartweel and variations down
bkick down
bkick while looking forward
hook to bkick while lookingforward
evetuall tricker aerial
then u understand aeril is abou torso and legs kickingover and u cna then try gymnast.
thats my way.
i cna now kinda tricker aerial on my weak side 2. (from a hook kick usually)
Skilzat85X
Jun-13-07, 01:38 PM
"Aerials are as easy as walking"? Please. Everyone's different. Aerial divides people a LOT, it's hard as hell for some. Don't patronize.
That's because some aren't doing it with an efficient (aka NOT WRONG) technique.
Btw, I can reverse aerial and aerial switch, standing missleg aerial, standing aerial and standing brandy and I have yet to try standing aerial switch or axe2aswithc, but they shouldn't be that hard.
Why? Because I know how aerials work.
Oh wait I just saw this...
This all after months of doing as what I saw as a "no-handed cartwheel", a side2side trickster aerial if you will.
What the heck! STUPID! A no-handed cartwheel isn't this side2side tricker aerial bs. A cartwheel isn't even supposed to be side to side! That's why you couldn't do it. Because, like I said, you obviously weren't trying to do your aerials or cartwheels in the little way we like to call the right way.
One-handed cartwheels and dive cartwheels, on the other hand, are much better for that.
Haha, one-handed cartwheels are about as similar to an aerial as a b-kick is to a b-twist.
Usually I hate to try to boost myself up but I'll be honest, you just can't argue aerials with me.
this thread has waaaaaay too much writing in it.
But uh...yeh...i learned to aerial by doin cartwheels, then one handed cartwheels and then making a bigger jump with my taking off leg and delaying the hand i plant down with until my hand just didn't reach the floor anymore.
Btw, I can reverse aerial and aerial switch, standing missleg aerial, standing aerial and standing brandy and I have yet to try standing aerial switch or axe2aswithc, but they shouldn't be that hard.
Why? Because I know how aerials work.
That's cool. I can't do all that, haven't tried much either. However, that doesn't give you much cred with 'learning aerials from a cartwheel'. The fact someone can bust a perfect backflip doesn't mean they can teach it properly.
What the heck! STUPID! A no-handed cartwheel isn't this side2side tricker aerial bs. A cartwheel isn't even supposed to be side to side! That's why you couldn't do it. Because, like I said, you obviously weren't trying to do your aerials or cartwheels in the little way we like to call the right way.
This is all true, I just didn't know it at the time. I did NOT understand how aerials worked, even though I could cartwheel well. And when I asked for help, I did not get people giving me proper advice nor technical explanations of the skill; all I got was 'drill your cartwheels' ! This is the point here. You should be giving proper advice and pinpointing the problem(s) like RandyMintz did, instead of being lazy and tossing it off with a comment like 'you oughtta drill your cartwheels'.
Haha, one-handed cartwheels are about as similar to an aerial as a b-kick is to a b-twist.
I beg to differ. I find the motion your body (especially your torso) goes through in a one-handed cartwheel to be much more similiar to an aerial.
Usually I hate to try to boost myself up but I'll be honest, you just can't argue aerials with me.
I disagree, then. I'm not disagreeing on the technique of the aerial, I'm disagreeing on the way it should be learned and/or taught. This is coming from personal experience; I did not understand the move and I didn't get proper advice. If I had been given specific instructions or even IDEAS instead of 'drill your cartwheels', I might've pulled a proper aerial right away instead of wasting time.
But uh...yeh...i learned to aerial by doin cartwheels, then one handed cartwheels and then making a bigger jump with my taking off leg and delaying the hand i plant down with until my hand just didn't reach the floor anymore.
This is how I eventually learned my aerial as well.
EDIT:
Sorry if I appear disrespectful, I don't mean to. I just strongly disagree on this.
- Ade
Skilzat85X
Jun-13-07, 02:22 PM
Now see here comes the inherent problem in your argument...
If I had been given specific instructions or even IDEAS instead of 'drill your cartwheels', I might've pulled a proper aerial right away instead of wasting time.
You're assuming that I was telling him to "drill cartwheels."
When in fact, I only said that I don't think his cartwheel is ready or good enough or whatever I said to be able to aerial. This means he needs a better cartwheel, not to drill cartwheels.
And all the proper instruction for this move is on trickstutorials.com.
Now see here comes the inherent problem in your argument...
You're assuming that I was telling him to "drill cartwheels."
When in fact, I only said that I don't think his cartwheel is ready or good enough or whatever I said to be able to aerial. This means he needs a better cartwheel, not to drill cartwheels.
You said his cartwheel isn't good enough, which kinda suggests 'drilling cartwheels', doesn't it? It certainly sounds like it does.
And all the proper instruction for this move is on trickstutorials.com.
Sorry, but I disagree. The tutorial might work for some, maybe even for most, but it certainly doesn't work for everyone. This applies to all the movements, not just aerials. Everyone's different. A slight modification in the way you approach a skill might make all the difference.
For example my B-twist improved a lot from rhyming it 12-34, like Dan suggested. Some people like to use a hook punch. I got an a2a after I stopped using my hands, like Andy and Pete told me to. Stuff like that. Everyone's unique and even a small idea or advice, even one seemingly trivial, might make a big difference.
- Ade
Skilzat85X
Jun-13-07, 02:45 PM
Instruction != specific problem advice.
You said his cartwheel isn't good enough, which kinda suggests 'drilling cartwheels', doesn't it? It certainly sounds like it does.
A slight modification in the way you approach a sentence might make all the difference.
Instruction != specific problem advice.
A slight modification in the way you approach a sentence might make all the difference.
"Sad to say but you probably cannot cartwheel well enough yet."
- I find it hard to approach that in any other way than "your cartwheel is not good enough yet, ergo you should practice / drill it untill it is", hm. Might be just me though :wink:
Ah well, I've got nothing more to add.
So yea, soz if I seemed disrespectful or anything, wasn't my intention.
- Ade
Teufel
Jun-13-07, 03:05 PM
Aerials aren't as easy as walking... but doing them after you have them extremely solid is..
For me to bust a good aerial is ridiculously easy, but learning it was hell. Aerial is also one of those moves (like the btwist) that some people get fast but usually it takes awhile to get it clean and powerful. Also certain people it takes forever just to get. People learn at different paces and maybe you got the aerial fast but for a lot of people the aerial is one of the most frustrating moves.
In my opinion, it looks like he doesn't have a good cartwheel. If I was him I would drill cartwheels, but not for that long, just long enough to get some power on it, and the right rotation. Then I would learn all the proper arm movements, and other technical stuff and try to do and aerial perfectly, and i'd end up putting my hands on the ground halfway through, but ideally you should crash them instead of putting your hands down.
I learned it that way, worked on getting a powerful cartwheel and then just learned the technical stuff and started throwing aerial attempts. I would try to get power on my aerial attempt and just progressed trying to touch the ground the least i could. I eventually got it after soo many attempts.
Another thing with aerials, and some people saying they are hell to learn, and some saying they are easy as shit.. it also depends on your prereqs.. when I learned it I couldn't do anything tricking related.
The only way one handed cartwheels help are if you aren't strong enough to cartwheel with one hand, but most people can..
pete_man_man
Jun-13-07, 03:51 PM
just make sure that if you are going to drill cartwheels for your aerial then make sure the only thing that you carry over from it to your aerial is the kicking and jumping motion.
You definitely shouldn't dip that low for an aerial.
infact, only dip a tiny bit and then throw your upper body back UP at the same time as the back kicking leg.
cue crazy height.
Spacey
Jun-14-07, 04:15 AM
Well I think it seems like the only way to clear up this conflict is for me to post my 1h-cart and my regular cart. I don't think they're that bad though, but I'll leave it up for you to judge.
Lloydy?!
Jun-14-07, 08:01 AM
you are almost there man, you have fairly decent height so you should be able to land. just focus on pulling that back leg all the way through. your using your arms in the take-off which is good. just a small tip that worked for me when i learnt my aerials, alot of ppl use their arms in the take-off and do nothing with them after, once you feel like you have inverted rip your arms back up. as in pull your arms back to your hips, this will make your aerial alot more floaty and give you alot more airtime to work on pulling that leg thru
mayb drill your 1 handed cartwheels onto your first hand, that will get you used more to pulling your leg down which seems to be the problem to me
I landed my first aerial by trying to do a one handed cartwheel and my hand missed the ground. I'd say practicing cartwheels is a good thing :good:
kickjim
Jun-14-07, 08:30 AM
Usually I hate to try to boost myself up but I'll be honest, you just can't argue aerials with me.
He's right, he owns them.
Originally Posted by Skilzat99X
Usually I hate to try to boost myself up but I'll be honest, you just can't argue aerials with me.
He's right, he owns them.
Too bad I wasn't arguing about aerials, so it's kinda irrelevant :wink:
Many people here seem to agree that drilling one-handeds works. Yea, drilling one-handeds and dives is always good.
EDIT:
http://www.drillsandskills.com/article/10
- Ade
Skilzat85X
Jun-14-07, 08:54 AM
One-handed cartwheels and dive cartwheels are all CARTWHEELS you moron.
Besides, the first thing you have to learn on that dang site is to do a proper cartwheel. Without a proper cartwheel, guess what?
YOU CANT DO A ONE-HANDED CARTWHEEL, A DIVE CARTWHEEL, OR AN AERIAL!
You don't even need a stupid dive cartwheel, I never learned those. In fact, I actually did those I think. The only difference was, I WAS TRYING AN AERIAL and coincidentally putting my hands down. So if someone drills aerials but puts their hands down, then they're just doing a dive cartwheel anyways.
You can't drill dive cartwheels until you've drilled regular cartwheels, which that site has already explained.
Why are you even trying to defend yourself you're basically agreeing and disagreeing with me. You're trying to go with the popular vote by adopting the whole "ok everyones saying one handed so lets do it." But everyone is also saying doing cartwheels in general are important and yet you're skipping over that.
To be honest, it doesn't matter if he's drilling cartwheels, one-handed cartwheels, or dive cartwheels. They're all the same thing, it's just in one a hand doesn't get put down or you jump into it or whatever, they're all insignificant cartwheel variations. Heck, why not drill a ONE HANDED DIVE CARTWHEEL omg.
Skippy
Jun-14-07, 09:09 AM
Skillzat is always right.
Skilzat85X
Jun-14-07, 09:13 AM
Not really lol. Just this time.
Well we're both right, the only difference is he's trying to argue against my rightness for some heavenly-forsaken reason.
blablabla
What, exactly, do you not understand when I'm telling you my whole point is that giving crappy advice like 'ZOMG YOUR CARTWHEELS ARENT GOOD ENOUGH DRILL THEM MORE' doesn't really help when someone is trying to learn an aerial? And BTW, you can't seriously convince me or anyone that "Sad to say but you probably cannot cartwheel well enough yet" doesn't translate into "drill your cartwheels".
Now, read this:
Yea, cartwheels are good, TO A POINT, but it's not all about that. After you have a decent/nice cartwheel, you should focus on one-handeds and dives. Not just drill the fucking cartwheel over and over again when it obviously isn't doing you any good with the aerial. My point was not so much about bashing cartwheels, my point was to bash useless and lazy advice. I never, at any point, said 'zomg cartwheels are totally useless', I just noted that in my opinion it's better to drill one-handeds and dives than regular cartwheels that really don't help you with an aerial at all. You should have a decent/nice cartwheel, yeah, but drilling them forever and ever and ever doesn't really help. If you can't aerial, the reason is not automatically that you suck at cartwheels.
I couldn't aerial, and my problem wasn't in my carts, my problem was getting lazy feedback like 'drill your carts' instead of helpful advice.
And yeah...
Gee, thanks for calling me a moron for no reason.
You have been rather arrogant in this thread. You even said
You're assuming that I was telling him to "drill cartwheels."
When in fact, I only said that I don't think his cartwheel is ready or good enough or whatever I said to be able to aerial. This means he needs a better cartwheel, not to drill cartwheels.
What on earth might have you meant if not 'drill your cartwheels'? If his cartwheels is not good enough, then he obviously should drill it to make it better, eh?
EDIT: Toned it down a bit.
- Ade
Skilzat85X
Jun-15-07, 06:55 AM
You don't drill cartwheels to improve them, you drill them to get used to them.
To make them better, you analyze them, critique your own, then make the necessary changes until yours are good enough.
waterboy
Jun-15-07, 07:01 AM
man this thread is hilarious
You don't drill cartwheels to improve them, you drill them to get used to them.
To make them better, you analyze them, critique your own, then make the necessary changes until yours are good enough.
Yeh. Well anyhows, I think this was a misunderstanding rather than anything else. I apologize for my behavior, went a tad over the edge with that last post.
- Ade
Skilzat85X
Jun-15-07, 07:25 AM
man this thread is hilarious
ya lol
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