Question: Is it better to just do main lifts, or just whatever?

[Bboy_Jon]

Currently, from the bb forum, this is my workout

Monday

Squats - 3x5
Bench - 3x5
Deadlift - 1x5
Dips - 2 x 8-15
Ab shit

Wednesday

Squats - 3x5
Standing Press - 3x5
rows - 3x5
Pullups/chins - 2 x 8-15
Ab shit

Friday

Squats - 3x5
Bench - 3x5
Deadlift - 1x5
Dips - 2 x 8-15
Curls - 2 x 8-12
TriEx - 2 x 8-12

I honestly don't think its really helping (except for squats, then again I have had the same bench max for months)

Anyways, my question, Is it better to do a workout that involves compound lifts and main exercises and very little isolation exercises? Or is it better to just do more isolation shit? (more bicep and calf shit, deltoids, forearms and all that good stuff)

with the current workout, i am not feeling as much pain as i do if i just do a bunch of random shit.

[Honken]

You should stick with compound movements. The program looks good, how long have you've been using it?

[rock_ten]

Is that Starting Strength?

[Honken]

Almost. ST doesen't have abshit, curls and such. It's just squat bench dead and row.

[rock_ten]

Almost. ST doesen't have abshit, curls and such. It's just squat bench dead and row.

I think it offers that you can do them if you want, and in the way that Bboy_Jon has them

[Honken]

I haven't read the book, but from what I've learned it's supposed to be real strict.

[mr popular]

is it "better" for WHAT?

if you're trying to increase those lifts, then it would be fine.

if you're trying to gain muscle, this program will probably fail.

and there's never a reason to completely avoid certain exercises just because they are considered "isolation" exercises... that is retarded.

[Bboy_Jon]

Well i am trying to gain muscle all around.

I have been doing it for 2 weeks now, but its pretty much the same thing I was doing in school (except in school there was a few more exercises)

[NightHunter]

I honestly don't think its really helping (except for squats, then again I have had the same bench max for months)

Anyways, my question, Is it better to do a workout that involves compound lifts and main exercises and very little isolation exercises? Or is it better to just do more isolation shit? (more bicep and calf shit, deltoids, forearms and all that good stuff)

with the current workout, i am not feeling as much pain as i do if i just do a bunch of random shit.

What are you basing your judgment of it not helping on?

Is it better compared to what? Different training methodologies are better for different goals. What are your goals?

Pain is a horrible indicator of progress.

[Zeff]

You mean muscle microtrauma? How is that a horrible indicator of progress? Haha, it's a damn fine one.

[mr popular]

Yes, I use the pain in my muscles to determine what exercises hit what particular parts of the muscle, and whether or not I went hard enough.

And Jon.... if you are trying to gain muscle all around, you should probably eat much more than you do now, and train like a bodybuilder. duh.

Bodybuilding is the most effective way of gaining muscle, so why avoid it for no reason?

[rock_ten]

if you've been using this tremendously popular routine for two weeks, I really can't see how you can say its working or not, Bboy_jon. If your goal is to cause more pain then go back to what you did before. If its to get good at basic barbell lifts then I suggest you continue.

[Steve]

So last night me n the crew r scanning the club, we run securtity on every door in town, ran the old pussies outta town, aint seem em since. had the usuial drunk assed preppy f@gs from the local college, simple choke hold, knee, punch and they are down then we throw them into a dumpster ion the alleyway, one night we puyt 8 guys in it at once, squashed em in like tuna in a can.


im working the door, crowds are lovin it, seeing me, im a damn celebrity oin this town, im like "chill the fuck out" but these guys are shoving n sh1t trying to get a glipse of my strong assed self especially since im rockin a fine italian suit, really shows off my frame,m

Peoiple r texting each other n sh1t, soon musta been 1000 outside the club taking pictures begging to get in, guys start shoving some girlsz and the crews like "fuck this" and jump in, start nailing people uypside the head, i break out the bats we keep behind the door, cracking skulls all over the fucking place. women love this sh1t, im top dog and they cant get enough of me whoopin ass,, im givin them a glimpse of my strong ass face inbetween swings of the blood soaked bat, its like a damn photo shoot.

next thing i know some pussy draws a gun, little T makes a grab and gets hit, good thing the crew wear vests, i dont, i aint got time for that pussy sh1t, so i go for the guy with a "son, somebody about to get their sh1t messed up" look on my face i see a flash but dont feel sh1t since im jacked up with adrenaline, i tackle this guy and the crew goes to work on his skull while i kick his gun down a drain. crowds gone fucking wild,

Crew locks down the club and calls a doc, girls r all over me crying n sh1t, im like "i aint got time to bleed" and sip some $1000 champage with a sh1t eating grin opn my face, when the docs turn up they couldnt believe their fucking eyes, turns out my jacked up muscle fibras stopped that 9 in its tracks, like organic body armor or some sh1t, a normal pussied ass guy wouldnt hit the bricks and died, a bullet aint sah1t to 220lbs of coiuled up fibras, you dont gotta be a scientist to knopw that.


w2hen i say im built for this sh1t i mean it.

[rock_ten]

that's l0lsome, Steve

[Bboy_Jon]

Being soar the next day is what I want :D

lol, i think i need to do the antoine back death workout.

but yeah, Basically i do want to get bigger and I know i have to eat A LOT more.

Ive been doing the EXACT routine for 2 weeks now, but in school all year I did a VERY similar routine.

[Steve]

How do I get abs? How do I get bigger? How do I get abs? How do I get bigger?

[Phil D]

doing squats, deadlifts, and benching on the same day will be pretty hard unless your lifting light

[rock_ten]

Being soar the next day is what I want :D

lol, i think i need to do the antoine back death workout.

but yeah, Basically i do want to get bigger and I know i have to eat A LOT more.

Ive been doing the EXACT routine for 2 weeks now, but in school all year I did a VERY similar routine.

When you did it at school, did you progress in any way?

[NightHunter]

You mean muscle microtrauma? How is that a horrible indicator of progress? Haha, it's a damn fine one.

Yes, I use the pain in my muscles to determine what exercises hit what particular parts of the muscle, and whether or not I went hard enough.

Being soar the next day is what I want :D

Muscle soreness is not an indicator of progress. There are many better indicators depending on goals. A few easily measurable ones are how much you lift, or how much you weigh.

Your muscles can be sore but if you're not eating enough you won't grow. Look at measurable results, not just "Oh I hurt."

[Bboy_Jon]

i progressed a lot during the first semester, bench was increased by about 30-40 lbs and squats increased by maybe 100 lbs? but after that i didnt really get anywhere.

I can still increase in squats and deadlifts i am sure, im just stuck on my bench :(

[NightHunter]

i progressed a lot during the first semester, bench was increased by about 30-40 lbs and squats increased by maybe 100 lbs? but after that i didnt really get anywhere.

I can still increase in squats and deadlifts i am sure, im just stuck on my bench :(

Bah, who cares about how much you increased your lifts? How sore were you?

[Zeff]

Muscle soreness is not an indicator of progress. What a load of fuck. Complete bullshit. :good:

Your muscles can be sore but if you're not eating enough you won't grow. Yes you will haha. If your training is hard enough, you will still grow.

"o noes i did not eat my proteen powder after my work out, i will not grow! LoL!!1"

.no.

[Gusch]

What a load of fuck. Complete bullshit. :good:

Yes you will haha. If your training is hard enough, you will still grow.

"o noes i did not eat my proteen powder after my work out, i will not grow! LoL!!1"

.no.

let me put it as simple as possible (so you understand what he actually meant):

muscle soreness isn't necessarily associated with muscle growth and/or progress.

[Bboy_Jon]

my legs still get sore but my chest don't get as sore as they did before :(

[Steve]

How about sour? Did they get more sour?

[d3mig0d]

My muscles generally get pretty sour after a nice workout. I just lick them instead of eating sour skittles or anything.

[Steve]

Who are you again?

[chicanerous]

Zeff, stop spouting nonsense.

[Pale Nimbus]

Being soar the next day is what I want :D

Don't worry guys, I found his problem.

Try going for muscle soreness instead of flying.

[Bboy_Jon]

i am trying to get high and cum

[rock_ten]

Bboy_jon, if you had success with the routine before, but then stalled after quite substantial gains, then just drop way back and cycle it back up again until you reach your previous bests and then continue on past them for a while

[anfeyd]

Christ Zeff, I thought you were smarter than this :dead:

[rock_ten]

ohhh, zeff! :sad:

[mr popular]

Zeff hasn't really said anything unintelligent. And he's one of the few people on this board that is still making progress I believe.

[Bboy_Jon]

wait, drop down on weight?

[rock_ten]

wait, drop down on weight?

if you stall then all you usually need to do is drop the load (usually by dropping weight, in something like Starting Strength anyway) and then build back up. You can't progress linearly forever. Everyone hits that firs plateau at some point, some people in a few months, and some can ride it much longer before they plateau. Since you sound to not have been training much recently then just start again as the instructions say (which I believe is at a weight where bar speed stays high throughout your entire set, which will be really light at first) then build up addeding however much weight each week. Once you stall, you'll have to drop back (not right back to the start) before you can progress again. Pushing at your limits when you're plateaued will get you nowhere.

[rock_ten]

Zeff hasn't really said anything unintelligent.

I'd say that this was pretty gay:
Your muscles can be sore but if you're not eating enough you won't grow. Look at measurable results, not just "Oh I hurt."What a load of fuck. Complete bullshit. :good:

Yes you will haha. If your training is hard enough, you will still grow.

"o noes i did not eat my proteen powder after my work out, i will not grow! LoL!!1"

.no.

So even if you're not eating enough (enough to grow), then you can still grow so long as you train hard enough? As far as I can see, if you're not eating enough to grow then you will not grow because by definition you are not eating enough to grow. If you grow, then you are eating enough to grow. If you don't eat enough to, then you won't.

I assume you're getting mixed up with your own quote about the proteen powder post-workout, which NightHunter mentioned nothing about.

[NightHunter]

I never thought I'd ever say this, but I agree with rock_ten.

[Pale Nimbus]

I never thought I'd ever say this, but I agree with rock_ten.

Same here, good call rock_ten :good:

[rock_ten]

what are you, queers?

[Pale Nimbus]

what are you, queers?

:wink:

[mr popular]

*shrug* i assumed he was referring to protein powder, as his post said.

Maybe we should ask him.

[NightHunter]

*shrug* i assumed he was referring to protein powder, as his post said.

Maybe we should ask him.

I thought he was referring to eating enough food to grow...like in the post he quoted.

Maybe we should ask what the quoted poster meant.

Yeah, I meant that if you are not eating enough(taking in enough calories) to meet your energy requirements that you won't grow.

[Bboy_Jon]

Ok so if I am able to do 140 (3x5 max is around 160-170) then how light should i drop?

maybe go 90 lbs? and do...3x8 or something with good bar speed?

[compleks]

This thread isn't about you anymore, just back off.

[Steve]

You are beginning to sound like King Nabby, jon

[anfeyd]

Take your max at your rep scheme and drop the weight by 10 percent and then work your way back up. See how it goes.

[mr popular]

Or, if you stagnate, you could just keep working with your 5RM for reps until you can get out 8 repititions, then increase by 10lbs so it may be down to 3-5 reps again.

I never bought the whole wave loading thing, because there are just too many factors that effect a person's physiology, and I don't think it's possible to predict gains or encourage them by following a mathematical pattern.

Sure it might work, but not for the reasons many people think, in my opinion.

[chicanerous]

Or, if you stagnate, you could just keep working with your 5RM for reps until you can get out 8 repititions, then increase by 10lbs so it may be down to 3-5 reps again.

I never bought the whole wave loading thing, because there are just too many factors that effect a person's physiology, and I don't think it's possible to predict gains or encourage them by following a mathematical pattern.

Sure it might work, but not for the reasons many people think, in my opinion.
First, it's not "mathematical patterns," it's "arithmetical patterns."

Second, are you fucking serious!? If you don't think strength training depends on arithmetical progression, please pick up a god damn barbell or get the fuck out.

Third, your increasing rep example IS an example of wave loading.

:ogre:

[Dave]

'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

[Steve]

More like, it's better to have been loved and lost than to have never been loved at all

[compleks]

First, it's not "mathematical patterns," it's "arithmetical patterns."

Second, are you fucking serious!? If you don't think strength training depends on arithmetical progression, please pick up a god damn barbell or get the fuck out.

Third, your increasing rep example IS an example of wave loading.

:ogre:

Snap!

[compleks]

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[NightHunter]

http://www.fireshow.eu/data/preview/new/41/FirstAidBurnSkinShema.jpg

http://www.burn-recovery.org/images/burn-classification.jpg

http://health.yahoo.com/media/healthwise/n5551147.jpg

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http://www.defence.gov.au/news/armynews/editions/1120/images/common%20pages/22-ice-tray.jpg

[compleks]

Excellent work.

[NightHunter]

High five, compleks!

[compleks]

*High Five!

[Skilzat85X]

Man even those diagrams look painful haha.

[Zeff]

I'd say that this was pretty gay:


So even if you're not eating enough (enough to grow), then you can still grow so long as you train hard enough? As far as I can see, if you're not eating enough to grow then you will not grow because by definition you are not eating enough to grow. If you grow, then you are eating enough to grow. If you don't eat enough to, then you won't.

I assume you're getting mixed up with your own quote about the proteen powder post-workout, which NightHunter mentioned nothing about.

Yeah, when I said you'd still grow, I was thinking in a general sense. If a brick layer is lifting bricks all day, he's probably going to grow with any decent amount of food intake, even if it's not at the best times. I find it quite easy for me to meet and surpass my daily caloric needs by about 3k on a daily basis. I honestly don't see how the average person can't at least meet their daily caloric needs.

So what I'm saying is, I do agree with you rock_ten, you just took what I said in the wrong way. It's fine, I forgive you. Everyone makes mistakes! :sad:

[rock_ten]

Yeah, when I said you'd still grow, I was thinking in a general sense. If a brick layer is lifting bricks all day, he's probably going to grow with any decent amount of food intake, even if it's not at the best times. I find it quite easy for me to meet and surpass my daily caloric needs by about 3k on a daily basis. I honestly don't see how the average person can't at least meet their daily caloric needs.

So what I'm saying is, I do agree with you rock_ten, you just took what I said in the wrong way. It's fine, I forgive you. Everyone makes mistakes! :sad:

So what you meant was that eating enough to grow is quite easy? What you said was that you don't actually NEED to eat enough to grow in order to grow.

Even the brick layer needs to eat enough to grow if he is to grow.

You understand really, though. And its ok that you got mixed up, nobody's perfect.

[compleks]

nobody's perfect.

Well... almost nobody.

[NightHunter]

Well... almost nobody.

Thanks for remembering me compleks.

Zeff, it's not hard, but you're forgetting about the stupid people who are so terrified of gaining fat that they'll eat about 1500 cals a day, and look for ways to cut some of that out.

[Bboy_Jon]

well, the bricklayer is eating way more than is needed, because he is a fuckin brick layer and all of them are big beefy fat fuckers

[Pale Nimbus]

lol at mr popular

[Ashtar]

For overall growth, yeah. For specialized thing like focusing on bodyparts or training for certain movements or flexibility, other stuff.