Enough of Verts, How about Horizontal jump?

[griever619]

Vertical jumping is essential for tricks, I know. But what is a good way to increase your horizontal jump (like for parkour to cross a pit, or in the long or triple jump in track)? Should you lift and focus on strength or focus on plyometrics more, or perhaps a bit of both? I'm also kind of confused on if bigger (and heavier) leg muscles, even though they are stronger, would hamper horizontal jump because they are heavier? In other words, would larger legs compensate for and exceed the weight they bear down when jumping?
Thanks a lot.

[Ashtar]

Oddly enough, training vertical will help your horizantal. It's pretty similar only you're leaning forward, and landing is a bit different.

Unless you're talking about running horizantal (long) jump, in which case, the form is different. Training 2 and 1 legged jumps would be good, depending on whether you're taking off with 1 or 2 feet.

[Steve]

It's the same basically, haha. There aren't any specific ways that you could train your horizontal jump rather than your vertical.

[compleks]

Training would be essentially the same as far as the theory goes.

Some sprint work may be beneficial if you are jumping from a run up.

You still need to build strength through resistance training, and power through plyometrics. Change the plyometrics to focus more on horizontal jump patterns as opposed to vertical jumping.

[griever619]

Alrighty sounds good! Thanks. Just one more thing: larger legs *shouldn't* impede jumping right? I've been doing lifting for a while focusing on legs and abs for jumping w/ skinny upper body :( and am just a bit concerned if getting big legs would screw up jumping. I've also recently began serious upper body lifting for show and working... though I'm certain I won't be huge or anything unless I train like a beast for a long time.

[chicanerous]

Alrighty sounds good! Thanks. Just one more thing: larger legs *shouldn't* impede jumping right? I've been doing lifting for a while focusing on legs and abs for jumping w/ skinny upper body :( and am just a bit concerned if getting big legs would screw up jumping.
They aren't going to impede jumping.

[Ashtar]

Not physically. If you build a lot of mass in the legs it does add to your bodyweight, so if you build muscle you're not able to fully recruit in your jumps (that's why people do plyometrics and skill training) it could hold you back.

[Antoine]

to practice your horizontal jump, practice sprinting and your vertical jump.

Then when you are ready, sprint, then jump foward.

[kristo]

"when you are ready"? haha

[Kitosho]

to practice your horizontal jump, practice sprinting and your vertical jump.

Then when you are ready, sprint, then jump foward.




This is solid advice.

[griever619]

siiick advice haha
Since weight training is still essential, in this case, would it help more to focus more on hamstrings, since it seems that they play more a role in propelling you forward?

[compleks]

Actually, they probably play less of a roll, since there is generally less hip extension in a forwards jumping movement.

Well, actually, that would depend how you were jumping. If it were from a stationary beginning it would essentially be the same as a normal vertical jump.

Just train strength and plyometrics, while also practicing your jumps, however it is you need to do them.

[griever619]

alright thanks a lot guys
the thing is there are waaay too many gimmicky things out there that are like best results with least training, etc. so bullshit get mixed with the facts, like routines that are too specialized and focused. i doubt the ancient greeks had modern knowledge about VO2 max, hypertrophy science, whey protein, muscle anatomy etc. but they were still ripped and powerful, like in 300

[Andy Longcat]

I heard PLASMAVOL helps..

[NightHunter]

alright thanks a lot guys
the thing is there are waaay too many gimmicky things out there that are like best results with least training, etc. so bullshit get mixed with the facts, like routines that are too specialized and focused. i doubt the ancient greeks had modern knowledge about VO2 max, hypertrophy science, whey protein, muscle anatomy etc. but they were still ripped and powerful, like in 300

300 is the most accurate representation of all that is Greek. This is the opinion of me, and also of several close friends, and many PhDs in Greek history.

[Skilzat85X]

300 is the most accurate representation of all that is Greek. This is the opinion of me, and also of several close friends, and many PhDs in Greek history.

Hahahaha.


Man, the training and conditioning forum is such a great place.

[compleks]

I heard alot of the footage from the film was actually restored from original Spartan home videos.

[chicanerous]

I heard alot of the footage from the film was actually restored from original Spartan home videos.
I can confirm that. Back in 2005, I was interning on the archaeological dig that first uncovered the footage. It was a tremendous find even though it didn't get much press outside of Greece itself. I was kind of surprised how fast they were able to able to come up with a codec to play it on our modern equipment, while still having enough time to sort through and edit the footage for the movie.

[compleks]

I'm still slightly disappointed that the producers of 300 were the high bidders for the exclusive footage rights. I was actually looking forward to seeing the new series of "Spartas Funniest Home Videos".

Oh well.

[Siphin]

who cares horizontal onlyy matters in parkour and who cares about them ur not gonna be like omg DUDE YOU JUST GOT SO MUCH DISTANCE ON THAT SNAPU.. who cares stupid thread

[chicanerous]

Judging by his avatar, he probably does track and field.

[Ashtar]

Make sure to jump at a 45 degree angle!

[Dobi]

if the long jumpers would jump at a 45 degree angle, they had 2m of height in a 8m long jump :dead:

[chicanerous]

if the long jumpers would jump at a 45 degree angle, they had 2m of height in a 8m long jump :dead:
My post just committed suicide out of dishonor.

[Squibel]

I think the long jump has more to do with technique than the vertical... In athletics the technique makes such a darn difference in the lenght you traverse while jumping. First it's the perfect run up, then the jump at the right angle, then the arching of your back right before you ram your feet back in front of you to have the farthest landing. Not to mention you may not fall back after you land...

But if you don't do athletics and you just want to jump further for parkour or something else, the muscles you have to train are very much the same i think.

[lastmanstanding]

if the long jumpers would jump at a 45 degree angle, they had 2m of height in a 8m long jump :dead:


Good point... however the maths is that with such a jump, you would have 2root2 metres of height (=2.8m). Add this to the metre or so that the centre alraedy has between it and the ground, and you would be over 3.5 metres off the ground certainly. As you would naturally tuck, youre entire body would be at least 3 metres above the ground.

The technique point is also important: notice how long-jumpers always push their legs forward before landing. Also, with the limited force that the athlete can produce, jumping at 45 degrees from a full sprint would kill a lot of momentum. I might do a mathematical analysis of this and see what the best angle is to apply the force, and the corresponding flight path.

[chicanerous]

"For the elite long jumper the optimum take off angle is between 18 and 25 degrees (Linthorne et al, 2001)."

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/longjump/index.htm

[Skilzat85X]

I never realized how much the long jump looks like knee death lol.

[Rahf]

I never realized how much the long jump looks like knee death lol.

Two words: Triple jump

That looks like ultimate knee death.

[lastmanstanding]

"For the elite long jumper the optimum take off angle is between 18 and 25 degrees (Linthorne et al, 2001)."

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/longjump/index.htm

:) saves me the bother, unless i choose to do it for the pure academic fun...

[griever619]

yeahh triple jump owns, but it's actually hard as... well it's pretty hard

[lastmanstanding]

Ok this thread is old but as i promised (OK i didnt promise but ja), i worked out the angle from a mechanics point of view.

It all depends on two things:

1) the speed you were running (call this "u", measured in metres per second)
2) the speed you can jump at (for example, just as you lift off the ground when you measure your vertical jump). This speed is equal to sqroot(4.9 x vertical jump in metres) (call this "q", measured in metres per second)


The angle to the horizantal at which you should apply the force for the jump (same angle as for q) can be calculated thus:


angle of force = arccos((-u+sqroot(u^2 + 8q^2))/4q)

yes, its complicated but it works.



The angle to the horizantal which you will ACTUALLY jump is more complicated again:

real angle = arctan(4q sin(arccos((-u+sqroot(u^2 + 8q^2))/4q))/(3u + sqroot(u^2 + 8q^2)))

Yep its really complicated this time... and i dont think it can be simplified, unfortunately. However if you put sensible values in, you get answers around 18-25 degrees (as someone posted earlier).

for an athlete who can run at 18mph (u=8m/s), and a vertical jump of 100cm (q=2.2m/s) [is this realistic?], the formula says that the athlete will jump at an angle of 14.0 degrees. This value is lower than the 18-25 degree range only because in real long jump there is also air resistance, and the ability the change your shape (ie stick our legs out when you land).

Gold Star to anyone who actually read all of that.