Whey + Lifting + Calorie Control = Weight Loss?

[iitob]

Here are the facts:

1) I am overweight.
2) Thanks to years of TKD and Chinese martial arts I have very strong and flexibles legs/hips. :tongue:
3) Thanks to years of TKD and Chinese martial arts I have a very weak upper body. :sad:
4) I work part-time as an Internet Marketing Consultant and part-time on my own company i.e. I have very little free time.
5) I exercise 30-45 minutes each morning (cycling) and on Mon/Wed/Fri I lift for 1 hour after this cardio.
6) I'm 22, 5'9", 185lbs.

My Aims:

1) To decrease body fat.
2) To develop upper body strength.

My Current Diet:

Breakfast (11am) - Baked beans and toast.
Lunch (2pm) - Cereal and milk.
Dinner (6pm) - Chicken/Fish, Potatoes/Pasta and vegetables.
Supper (9pm) - Cereal and milk.

(This is the "calorie control" diet - approx 1500 per day).

Thanks for bearing with me whilst I established all that! My questions for all you wonderful people is as follows:

- I am aware there is not enough protein in the above diet, and so I have purchased some UPN Whey Protein (908g - why not 1Kg!?). When should I be intaking this and how much should I be getting?

- I wake up at 6am each morning and want to do my cardio/lifting session around 7am Mon/Wed/Fri. On these days where I do both cardio and lifting, what should I be eating/drinking before and after?

- On the Tues/Thurs/Sat where I only do cardio, what should I be eating before and after?

- What are your thoughts on caloric intake when combined with lifting? Prior to starting this diet, I would intake around 2500 calories per day (average). I have followed a 1500 calorie per day routine before and, combined with daily morning cardio (before breakfast), lost 35lbs in 2 months with no "noticeable" loss in strength/muscle mass (but obviously I was not lifting then).

Thank you for reading this far - any input would be greatly appreciated! :D

[Honken]

1500!? How much are you eating now? Cut 500 from what you're eating right now or you'll loose more than just fat.

How does your cardio look like? Aerobic or anaerobic?

[iitob]

Cardio is cycling, not too high intensity, for around 45 minutes each morning.

I know, 1500 calories per day is low, and I've been warned about it before, though I've never experienced any negatives effects from it - but of course, tha was without lifting in my routine. This is also without the addition of whey, which I hope to introduce to my diet tomorrow.

[Rahf]

Too big of a calorie deficit will lead to lowered metabolism. The total time under a calorie deficit is also a factor. Apparently there have been recordings of up to a 40% change. Normal eating after having been on a cut will normalize basic metabolism to regular levels.

I'd say clean up your act abit mate, you need to change your eating habits and include some better sources for nutrients. The lunch cereal needs to go. A good way to ensure you have a decent lunch handy is to cook large amounts of food for dinner and then store the excess in lunch boxes, that is your lunch the day after. Skip the toast in the morning, bread is an excellent way of tricking yourself into eating more than you need. I know I could "never" eat myself full on bread, I'd be gulping a whole loaf before that happened. Try out oatmeal, very filling and fairly low on the calories.

The reason you haven't lost any strength or muscle mass is because you lack significant portions of them both. Your CNS is improving while your energy is faltering and that in turn gives you a positive outcome. You need to up that calorie intake abit and start taking it more slowly, there is no rush. You'll feel the benefits from it in the form of more energy and possible strength gains. Don't rush your weightloss now, 1lbs per week is fast enough while still letting you live a decent life with food involved.

Set a date where you shall have reached a certain target weight while losing 1 pound per week. Never rush a weightloss mate, never.

Good luck and keep the questions coming, some of us will definitely support you but you need to heed the advice we give as well.

[iitob]

Thanks for the response. :)

The major query I have is how and when to introduce whey into my diet in relation to cardio, lifting and recovery. Whilst I appreciate the input on the other areas, some input on this would be of great use, and would also up the overall daily caloric intake.

[Rahf]

Whey is not a crucial part in actual recovery, though it plays a part in the building of your muscles. Recovery after working out comes in the form of carbohydrates. Next time you buy supplements, have a look at a gainer, it is basically carbs and protein mixed together as a method of post workout recovery.

For your protein, I reckon something like 45 minutes before working out is a good bet. After workouts you could have a larger meal with a solid base of protein and carbs.

[Ashtar]

I remember when years of TKD weakened my upper body.

[CakeNcream]

there is much ignorance in this thread. If you lift and eat clean foods that are high in protein (like 30 grams or so) then you will lose BF and gain muscle. if you keep doing the cycling on days you lift, do it afterward. Protein is the key here. you need alot of it, 1g per lb of bodyweight is acceptable. That is the most important macrontrient. after that you can get the rest of your calories anywhere else. also cutting for too long will fuck your thyroid and leptin levels and will slow your metabolism. it happened to me and i was put on thyroid meds, which was fine by me.

[CakeNcream]

Whey is not a crucial part in actual recovery, though it plays a part in the building of your muscles. Recovery after working out comes in the form of carbohydrates. Next time you buy supplements, have a look at a gainer, it is basically carbs and protein mixed together as a method of post workout recovery.

For your protein, I reckon something like 45 minutes before working out is a good bet. After workouts you could have a larger meal with a solid base of protein and carbs.

this is an ignorant and contradictory statement. if rebuilding your muscles isnt recovery then what is? you dont need carbs to recover. they help but protein is what will actually make you recover.

[frankinstine]

this is an ignorant and contradictory statement. if rebuilding your muscles isnt recovery then what is? you dont need carbs to recover. they help but protein is what will actually make you recover.

you dont need carbs to recover? carbs replenish energy stores used by excercise. you do need carbs for recovery.

[Rahf]

this is an ignorant and contradictory statement. if rebuilding your muscles isnt recovery then what is? you dont need carbs to recover. they help but protein is what will actually make you recover.

Really now? I reckon my statement can be interpreted abit differently than I had intended which is something I need to correct in the future.

There is muscle recovery and then there is muscle recovery. One of them is the part where the actual muscle protein is being rebuilt in either a bigger, stronger or more stable state, hopefully it is a combination. Then there is muscle glycogen which is the energy your muscles use when performing physical activities. In this case I was referring to muscle glycogen which is also a very important part to reconsider if you want to be able to perform equally well on the next workout.

Here's a key sentence! You don't use the energy from the food you've been eating on the same day, you will use it on the day after.

Yes, muscle recovery is one part of it but that is a longer process and is not completely dependant on the nearest hours after training. The protein synthesis shows no stimulance until 12 hours after training and will stay on a higher level for up to 48 hours. Using whey as a supplement to also promote a response from the protein synthesis is a thing some people do. Using it as a way to up the protein intake is what most people do.

2g of protein per kg of bodyweight is also a thing to shoot for and gives you quite a margin to stay optimal when it comes to what the protein will be used for. 1g of fat per kg of bodyweight is a minimum to shoot for since fat is an essential macronutrient and vital in order to keep steady hormone levels.

There's more to nutrition than just protein.

*Edit* A response to CakeNCreams first post in this thread:

Theoretically you can lower your BF and increase your muscle mass by staying on a very small step up from energy balance. In practice I doubt there are many who can actually pull this feat off and if you have been fatter and dropped some weight, your body will focus on storing fat over muscle until the old levels have been reached. I'll provide a small example:

Person A has been lean his entire life and never suffered any overweight or obesity. He weighs 75kg. He is 175cm tall.

Person B has been overweight with a peak at 95kg on 175cm. He has successfully cut his weight down to 75kg over a longer period of time.

Out of these two, person B has more fat cells at 75kg than person A has and will produce more bodyfat than if he would never have been overweight. Fat cells don't go away, they only reduce in size.

It might sound scary but remember that you will still build muscle. It's just that the prerequisites are worse for you than for a naturally lean guy.

[hamelkarl]

Rahf! My dear Rafh, I never met you, but you seem to always know the true about bodybuilding. You have my respect!

[Vincent_Lee]

Well. i am quite new to dieting and hardcore weight-loss, as i was a realy fatty when i was a child, i am around 173-76 and weight around 70-72 (varies around the time of the day i weigh my self) and my BMI is around 21-22, 20 is around normal, i eat almost only fruits and fish/shellfish/chicken, and meats, not so much grainy foods, such as pasta/bread and whatnot, and i keep loosing weight in a slow but steady and healthy way :D, just try not to rush yourself down in weight. It does not work!

[Rahf]

Well. i am quite new to dieting and hardcore weight-loss, as i was a realy fatty when i was a child, i am around 173-76 and weight around 70-72 (varies around the time of the day i weigh my self) and my BMI is around 21-22, 20 is around normal, i eat almost only fruits and fish/shellfish/chicken, and meats, not so much grainy foods, such as pasta/bread and whatnot, and i keep loosing weight in a slow but steady and healthy way :D, just try not to rush yourself down in weight. It does not work!

22.5 is "normal" if you want to be anal about it. 20 is on the verge of underweight. Hopefully you have a set goal or you'll end up looking emaciated and unattractive.

Kids shouldn't diet. Unless they really are overweight/obese.

[Vincent_Lee]

well, mayb diet was a bad word for it, but i was really obese and overweight when i was younger, due to a slight breathing condition, so i have to eat healty, or i die.. well not die but my heart doesnt like it when i dont follow my current " diet "

[Ashtar]

*Edit* A response to CakeNCreams first post in this thread:

Theoretically you can lower your BF and increase your muscle mass by staying on a very small step up from energy balance. In practice I doubt there are many who can actually pull this feat off and if you have been fatter and dropped some weight, your body will focus on storing fat over muscle until the old levels have been reached. I'll provide a small example:

Person A has been lean his entire life and never suffered any overweight or obesity. He weighs 75kg. He is 175cm tall.

Person B has been overweight with a peak at 95kg on 175cm. He has successfully cut his weight down to 75kg over a longer period of time.

Out of these two, person B has more fat cells at 75kg than person A has and will produce more bodyfat than if he would never have been overweight. Fat cells don't go away, they only reduce in size.

It might sound scary but remember that you will still build muscle. It's just that the prerequisites are worse for you than for a naturally lean guy.They've never proved that fat cells don't die. That's always been a really dumb theory. I think the same applies to the idea that somehow having more fat cells will cause more fat gain.

If your food has been converted to fatty acids, gets packed up in a lipoprotein and is on the way to get stored, it doesn't really matter. If you have more cells and they're on empty, then they take it. If you don't then they'll split and you take it. If you have 10lbs of fat, do you really care if it's held in 20 000 cells 1/4 full or 10 000 cells 1/2 full? (arbitrary numbers not based in actual cell totals in body).

[Rahf]

They've never proved that fat cells don't die. That's always been a really dumb theory. I think the same applies to the idea that somehow having more fat cells will cause more fat gain.

If your food has been converted to fatty acids, gets packed up in a lipoprotein and is on the way to get stored, it doesn't really matter. If you have more cells and they're on empty, then they take it. If you don't then they'll split and you take it. If you have 10lbs of fat, do you really care if it's held in 20 000 cells 1/4 full or 10 000 cells 1/2 full? (arbitrary numbers not based in actual cell totals in body).

Prim Care. 2003 Jun; 30(2): 281-99, v-vi. Related Articles, Links

Risks of obesity.

Bray GA.

Pennington Biomedical Research Center, 6400 Perkins Road, Baton Rouge, LA 70808, USA

Obesity is a chronic disease in the same sense as hypertension and atherosclerosis. The cause of obesity is an imbalance between the energy ingested in food and the energy expended. Excess energy is stored in fat cells that enlarge or increase in number. This hyperplasia and hypertrophy of fat cells is the pathologic lesion of obesity. Enlarged fat cells produce the clinical problems that are associated with obesity, either because of the weight or mass of the extra fat or because of the increased secretion of free fatty acids and numerous peptides from enlarged fat cells. The consequence of these two mechanisms is other diseases, such as diabetes mellitus, gallbladder disease, osteoarthritis, heart disease, and some forms of cancer.


It is also a clinically proven fact that fat cells do not die but only shrink in size. Note also that you need to have achieved a serious overweight before your body starts producing any dramatic number of fat cells.

[Birch]

Ashtar just dont try it, you of all people
You have the worst rants here and no normal person is going to win against Rahf anyway

Ps I really fucking hate you Ashtar

[-Pat-]

Here's a key sentence! You don't use the energy from the food you've been eating on the same day, you will use it on the day after.

What a load of shit.

Also, "overweight" is not a noun.

[Rahf]

What a load of shit.

Also, "overweight" is not a noun.

Well that statement is basically a quote from the veterans that I've spoken with. The fact still remains that people competing in "Vasaloppet" (90km cross-country skiing) do carb loading on the days preceding the actual race. The same applies to some bodybuilders dieting down and carb loading on the days before heavy workouts. I reckon that works pretty well with the statement.

Noun or not, I still got my point through which is more important than grammatical 'analism'.

[Birch]

lol anal