Being flexible isn't always good.. just look at goatse

[Augenatic]

Just kicked myself in the face with a 360 :smile:. Totally swollen lip and headache lol.

[tuareg]

I kicked my hand once while doing a 360. It hit bone, so it hurt surprisingly bad.

[Augenatic]

I kicked my hand once while doing a 360. It hit bone, so it hurt surprisingly bad.

I do that all the time. Nothing serious has happened because of it though. Gotta power up my kicks a bit, maybe? :smile:

[tuareg]

I still dont quite get how you kicked your head ahha.

[Augenatic]

360 crescent, going for a high kick, bend a little forward and kick myself in the face. haha :tongue:

[Sakanem]

haha I flattened my nose once :D

[tuareg]

Kicking yourself sucks and its fucking annoying haha.

[Augenatic]

haha I flattened my nose once :D
Nice man, haha :tongue:

Kicking yourself sucks and its fucking annoying haha.

Totally haha. How can I meet up at school with my 3x normal size lip? hahaha :tongue:. I don't care bout' my lip, but I really don't wanna explain everyone how it happened haha.

[Dragonic MiKe]

um... are you sure you didn't knee your self in the face?

If not you must have some pretty short legs.

[saunders]

i occasionally hit my hand when doing 360s, makes me look like some wushu dude haha. but i guess that's what i get for not keeping my hands in fighting posture eh? damn lazy me.

[Torre]

Wushu dudes pwn.

[Augenatic]

um... are you sure you didn't knee your self in the face?

If not you must have some pretty short legs.

Well, my leg hit my face with the knee, but it was extended like in a kick. :smile:

[Sakanem]

How can you hit your face with your knee? Mine doesn't go beyond shoulder level :-/

[Augenatic]

How can you hit your face with your knee? Mine doesn't go beyond shoulder level :-/

Neither does mine, but I leaned forward just a little bit. And that little bit was apparently enough haha.

[-spinxy-]

Wushu dudes pwn.


and wushu dudettes.

[Dragonic MiKe]

Well, my leg hit my face with the knee, but it was extended like in a kick. :smile:

Yeah, that makes sense.

This happened once to me but it only happened because I didn't extend the kick properly (allowing my knee to contact with my face much more easily). Which leads me to believe that: Flex = less chance of knee to the face.

I think it would be very difficult to cause yourself any damage at all if you kept your leg fully extended. :wink:

[Ashtar]

Basically he flexed his spine. Just try touching your knees to your nose ppl, even I can do it. With a flexed knee you don't even have to use momentum. Shit I'm doing it in my chair right now.

If only I could get a bit higher up on the femur to reach the hips. Then I could have some fun.

[Augenatic]

Yeah, that makes sense.

This happened once to me but it only happened because I didn't extend the kick properly (allowing my knee to contact with my face much more easily). Which leads me to believe that: Flex = less chance of knee to the face.

Yeah, I didn't think about that haha, you're right :tongue:.

[-spinxy-]

There's a woman who comes down to our wushu class every now and again who is a contortionist. I used to want to train myself to be that insanely flexible but after seeing her kicks it has put me off. Although it's easy for her to kick her leg up to her face, she can't pull it down with any amount of force and she has no power in any of her kicks because her muscles are so loose.

Is it possible to gain that kind of flexibility (like extreme contortionist type flexibility) and still retain power in your kicks etc or is it a case of just having to put up with being moderately flexible if you want to be able to kick with any amount of force?

[Cully]

-spinxy- you have the best avatar evar.

Just kicked myself in the face with a 360 :smile:. Totally swollen lip and headache lol.

I knee'd myself in the face landing wrongly on a trampoline... I landed on my neck and was about to flip up, exept my weight was too far one direction and my legs went straight into my face...

I wanted to burn the trampoline.

[poliver]

i once also kicked myself in the nose when doin dynamic stretches, got nosebleed

[-spinxy-]

-spinxy- you have the best avatar evar.


oooooooh yeeaaaah :cool:

[Dantess]

Haha, I've done the same on a very upright 540 before. Hurts lots =(

[Ashtar]

Spinxy: I'm guessing you're talking about something like an axe kick or a crescent or something. One possibility if her foot comes down slow is that she's not properly relaxing the muscles she uses to raise it (hip flexors for front kicks, abductors for side kicks). If you are able to release all tension, the leg should accelerate to the ground at the speed of gravity, roughly.

You can add to that speed by forcibly contracting the muscles that pull it down, like the hamstrings or the glutes. She's probably just not doing that. It's not only a good idea to speed the leg coming down, but due to reciprocal inhibition it should also relax the muscles that raise the leg.

There's no reason I can see that you couldn't generate power there. The only thing is, you'd have to be more conscious about it. In gaining flexibility you sort of overcome the stretch reflex, meaning if you kick up your muscles aren't going to instinctively shorten and pull it back down again. This means you have to be more conscious about moving your leg I guess. That's not entirely a bad thing, but it does mean you need to build it into your training consciously since you don't want to have to think about it when you need to apply it in a spar/fight.

Generally a reason that contortionists can seem weak is either due to not building any strength, or spending more time gaining flexibility than drilling their kicks for power. It can happen a lot if you only kick in katas and don't do it against pads or a bag or a target. Even if you do, you need feedback on how your power is doing. Also keep in mind she is a woman, and probably smaller than you, meaning she may simply lack the same mass you have and just have less power due to that.

Since I don't know what kick you're talking about I can't say, but sometimes people gain height in their kicks by leaning back on the base leg rather than lifting the front leg. This can make it effortless to hold a kick up but for the same reason, means you would have to lean forward so that gravity can pull your leg down and help accelerate it towards the ground. That's how you put your weight into a kick instead of just the weight of the leg. If she's still got most of her weight on her back foot, that weight won't be in the kick.

I did read a paper once where this track coach said he didn't want his sprinters too flexible because when their hamstrings got too flexible they lost speed or something like that. I'm not entirely sure if that research was correct though, you still might be able to reprogram a reflex under certain conditions even if you practise deactivating it for other ones, who knows. Plus, we do more in life than sprinting so even if you can't run at the same max speed, there are advantages to flexibility which might outweigh that.

[-spinxy-]

Spinxy: I'm guessing you're talking about something like an axe kick or a crescent or something. One possibility if her foot comes down slow is that she's not properly relaxing the muscles she uses to raise it (hip flexors for front kicks, abductors for side kicks). If you are able to release all tension, the leg should accelerate to the ground at the speed of gravity, roughly.

You can add to that speed by forcibly contracting the muscles that pull it down, like the hamstrings or the glutes. She's probably just not doing that. It's not only a good idea to speed the leg coming down, but due to reciprocal inhibition it should also relax the muscles that raise the leg.



Yeah it's axe kicks in particular I was thinking of. I think it is that she does just let gravity pull it down and doesn't add to the force as it seems to have a more floaty and relaxed quality to it compared to the forced way everyone else in the class kicks. It just always amazes me the ease of which she is able to elevate her leg above her head, almost as if she was raising it in a controlled manner instead of actually having to force it up with a kick. So in that part she looks as though she has a lot of leg strength but it just seems to disappear on the coming down of it. This is where I was wondering if it was more of a result of her EXTREMELY loose muscles or perhaps simply because she is approaching it as an aesthetical move (as most of modern wushu is pretty much designed to be asthetic) rather than a martial one and therefore not bothering to put power into it.


There's no reason I can see that you couldn't generate power there. The only thing is, you'd have to be more conscious about it. In gaining flexibility you sort of overcome the stretch reflex, meaning if you kick up your muscles aren't going to instinctively shorten and pull it back down again. This means you have to be more conscious about moving your leg I guess. That's not entirely a bad thing, but it does mean you need to build it into your training consciously since you don't want to have to think about it when you need to apply it in a spar/fight. I know what you mean here by having to be more conscious about it- my coach always used to pull me up for it, so again I think maybe she is approaching it from an aesthetic view point and myself form a more martial one as I am used to training it like that.

Generally a reason that contortionists can seem weak is either due to not building any strength, or spending more time gaining flexibility than drilling their kicks for power.

Yes, I should have mentioned before that she is primarily an acrobat/contortionist, not a martial artist so hasn't had the same training as me but I was just asking in general really if extreme flexibility would do any damage to my own strength/power of kicks. She was just an example I thought might help explain my query.


Also keep in mind she is a woman, and probably smaller than you, meaning she may simply lack the same mass you have and just have less power due to that.
I'm a woman too and rather petite myself haha.

Since I don't know what kick you're talking about I can't say, but sometimes people gain height in their kicks by leaning back on the base leg rather than lifting the front leg. This can make it effortless to hold a kick up but for the same reason, means you would have to lean forward so that gravity can pull your leg down and help accelerate it towards the ground. That's how you put your weight into a kick instead of just the weight of the leg. If she's still got most of her weight on her back foot, that weight won't be in the kick.

With it being a wushu axe kick the whole body must be straight throughout the whole thing; back, base leg and kicking leg. With her flexibility she can do the move beautifully but it just lacks the power, again making me wonder if it's simply because she isn't consciously putting in the extra effort to bring the leg down or if it's a result of her flexibility that makes the muscles weaker. To be honest this issue would probably be made easier if I had someone to look at who not only had trained as a contortionist but also as a martial artist.

I did read a paper once where this track coach said he didn't want his sprinters too flexible because when their hamstrings got too flexible they lost speed or something like that. I'm not entirely sure if that research was correct though, you still might be able to reprogram a reflex under certain conditions even if you practise deactivating it for other ones, who knows. Plus, we do more in life than sprinting so even if you can't run at the same max speed, there are advantages to flexibility which might outweigh that. I think I know what the track coach is on about; it's the same problem I have as a woman in jumping as high as the men in my class. Women's calves are longer and slimmer than mens who's are more short and fat - more ideal for the explosive power needed for jumping and sprinting. Got to admit for a girl who loves wushu and tricking, this little biological difference is a right royal pain in the ass haha.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to reply (wasn't expecting that much of a response to be honest but it is very much appreciated). Although I'm still unsure of whether or not to become that flexible as I don't want to do anything that might do my wushu training any damage. I'm not in any danger of doing that any time soon though thankfully - wushu is one of those martial arts you need to be insanely flexible for anyway and I'm still not as flexible as I'd like to be without going into the contortionist region of things so I shall just have to see how it goes.

[Torre]

and wushu dudettes.

Of course :tongue:

[cepopeye]

theres a video of scott kocking a tooth out kicking himself

[BoredArnold]

i kneed myself in the eye before haha.

[broertjetim]

i kicked myself in the head while doing a tornado kick :p

[Graber]

!!!!

[Birch]

Graber you are so useless...

[Dragonic MiKe]

I once kicked my face off.

Woke up the next day looking like Nicholas Cage.

Ba dum, tish

[tricker_d]

um... are you sure you didn't knee your self in the face?

If not you must have some pretty short legs.

Even if you have long legs, it is still possible to kick your head with your toes/foot. You need to pull back your hips, keep you back really straight, and stretch alot.

[-spinxy-]

Our wushu coach keeps telling us how if we trained our kicks properly we'd leave each class with a black mark on our forehead. But as we aren't chinese and therefore have slightly longer legs, you've got to pull back your toes to the point that they can reach your forehead in order to do it, otherwise your foot will just sail over your head each time.

[Ashtar]

Even if you have long legs, it is still possible to kick your head with your toes/foot. You need to pull back your hips, keep you back really straight, and stretch alot.
I'd like to see this. You can knee or maybe shin yourself in the face, but if the distance from your hip to your toe (even with maximal dorsiflexion to minimalize that distance) is longer than the distance from your hip to your head (even with a straight spine to maximize that distance), your toe will not hit it.

[Sakanem]

Ya, it's usually shin_2_nose contact :good:

[tricker_d]

I'd like to see this. You can knee or maybe shin yourself in the face, but if the distance from your hip to your toe (even with maximal dorsiflexion to minimalize that distance) is longer than the distance from your hip to your head (even with a straight spine to maximize that distance), your toe will not hit it.

But gravity is also playing a role in kicking too. You are kicking against a force pulling your leg down. This will lower your hips enabling you to kick higher with your hips lower. So it will actually allow you to kick closer to your forehead. Take a look at the guy in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWmb3pHT55E. He can kick his forehead and he has average-long legs. Just ask him. Proper hip positioning and flexibility, and hamstring flexibility will allow you to kick your forehead.

[Kimberlina]

My coach says the same thing about pulling your toes back to increase your kicks. My old goal while I was gaining flexibility was to kick myself in the face. But alas leg length wasn't on my side and I ended up with a shin to the face and I kicked over my head. Yay for wushu kicks!

[noobtrickster]

i kneed my face when landed a sideflip on a higher level, it hurt so bad...

[Ashtar]

I am liking the new thread title. Only... isn't that only bad if it leads to the necessity of an adult diaper? I have heard that happens if you relax the muscles too much.
But gravity is also playing a role in kicking too. You are kicking against a force pulling your leg down. This will lower your hips enabling you to kick higher with your hips lower. So it will actually allow you to kick closer to your forehead. Take a look at the guy in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWmb3pHT55E. He can kick his forehead and he has average-long legs. Just ask him. Proper hip positioning and flexibility, and hamstring flexibility will allow you to kick your forehead.At what point in the video is he kicking his forehead? He seems to stop short of tht. I didn't say kicking yourself in the head with your foot is impossible, just that it won't necessarily happen to everyone. It may even happen to most people, I don't know of any studies comparing the lengths and this flexibility is not common enough for generalities to be made. It depends on the length of your leg compared to the rest of your body. Someone with longer legs will kick with the shin. Someone with shorter legs might foot themselves in the neck. Humans are weird like that.

Thanks for posting this video, I really like what's in it. It makes me want to learn wushu because of how he uses his hands as targets for the kicks in genious ways.

My coach says the same thing about pulling your toes back to increase your kicks. My old goal while I was gaining flexibility was to kick myself in the face. But alas leg length wasn't on my side and I ended up with a shin to the face and I kicked over my head. Yay for wushu kicks!I don't see how pulling your toes back would increase the height of your kicks, are you talking about increasing some aspect of the kick besides the height? Usually you pull them back either to increase the stretch in muscles that run along the back of the knee/ankle, or to make sure you don't bruise your toes, so that you can kick with the ball or the heel of the foot. My kung fu friend used to brag to me about how he could snap-kick me in the head with his heel.

[tricker_d]

Watch this guys stretch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v74ht8uLWRs. Watch closely as he bends his leg near the end. His upper leg is about as long as his upperbody(excluding his head)...so if you layed out his leg beside his upperbody, it would look impossible for him to touch his forehead. But he can. He has the same leg/body proportions as I do and yet he can manage to touch his forehead to his toes. I have long legs but poor hip flexibility. He has long legs and good hip flexibility. It is possible for people who have long legs like me to touch their forehead.

[Scott]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJsZvcCmq0g
As Cepopeye said, I broke my tooth/got a split lip from this. It was poopy. Make sure you watch with the sound on, the CLICKKKKKKK sound is my tooth breaking in half.

[tricker_d]

It's because you hunched your back and bent your leg. I did that once too but hit my eye instead.

[James Branleur]

Oh, I thought you actually had found a good reason to be lazy and not to stretch. But, there is no way you can kick your face when doing a 360 if you are very flexible and keep your leg completely straight. The truth is, you are a stiff piece of shit.

James Branleur will always love you!!!

[Ashtar]

Watch this guys stretch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v74ht8uLWRs. Watch closely as he bends his leg near the end. His upper leg is about as long as his upperbody(excluding his head)...so if you layed out his leg beside his upperbody, it would look impossible for him to touch his forehead. But he can. He has the same leg/body proportions as I do and yet he can manage to touch his forehead to his toes. I have long legs but poor hip flexibility. He has long legs and good hip flexibility. It is possible for people who have long legs like me to touch their forehead.I'm guessing you mean the first part when he touches his forehead rather than the second where it goes over his head. I agree he touches, but just barely, and with a very dorsiflexed foot. He's pulling his toes up, my guess is he doesn't get an angle that extreme when simply using his anterior tibilias during a kick. Even then he just barely touches the forehead. This guy is right on the fringe. Someone with a slightly smaller torso/shorter neck/longer leg wouldn't be able to do it, it would pass over his head and the shin would have to hit.

Anyway getting back to the original point, the potential of kicking yourself in the head isn't really a flaw in flexibility, but in not controlling your kicking power. It just means that you'll have to remember to slow it down if you're kicking high enough to hit yourself in the face, which most people don't do in real fight anyway. Even then, if you keep your arms in guard position or at least one in front of your face somehow, you can protect yourself from your flailing leg.

[Augenatic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJsZvcCmq0g
As Cepopeye said, I broke my tooth/got a split lip from this. It was poopy. Make sure you watch with the sound on, the CLICKKKKKKK sound is my tooth breaking in half.

Shit man, that sucks. Luckily, I was doing some warmup- not very powerful 360's, so I didn't hurt myself too bad. And who edited the title hahaha, it's awesome! :tongue:
The truth is, you are a stiff piece of shit. Sorry, but I'm gonna have to sig that. :tongue:

[Shear]

I kneed myself in the jaw with a btwist today

[Ashtar]

I like femse and g-girl.

[Augenatic]

I like femse and g-girl.

Goatse girl? Where?