side kick/swing

[LeYi]

so i've been doing my dynamic leg swings every morning and evening but i've noticed a problem.

that is, i cant figure out how to tilt the pelvis forward and lean the upper body forward while maintaining a relatively upright position during the side leg swing, as juji and kurz show.

if i dont try to do it manually and just let things happen, my upper body's natural tendency is to lean back away from the swing while keeping in-line with the swing-- from the shoulder to the foot.

it just feels weird. if i try to keep upright and lean forward while tilting my pelvis forward my foot has a tendency to go toes-up and the hip joint hurts. (a sign of tight external rotators?)

and when i do high side or roundhouse kicks its not the kicking leg that hurts but the hip joint of the base leg. i feel a tightness there with pain that prevents me from kicking higher or comfortably. although i can already go head height and a little higher.

any tips on posture of the upper body during the side leg swing, and how to stretch/strengthen the external rotators?

[short gorilla]

Flexibility in your back will help with that.

[LeYi]

really? i never considered that. mainly because i feel the tightness and pain in the hip of my base leg when kicking. and the legs just feel weird doing the side swing whenever i try to position my body like that. but that may just take some experimenting.

although i've been doing dynamic and static stretches for my back as well. but i'm only a couple weeks into it.

but also, thats not the only time the hip gives me trouble. its usually the right hip. when i do the drop stance (pubu as its called in wushu) with the right leg bent and the left leg out its all good. but when the left is in a squat and the right leg is out straight to the side i cant get so low because the tightness and pain in my right hip. it just wont abduct like the other side- which makes for a high and ugly pubu.

argh!

[short gorilla]

I was thinking of something but didn't really put it into words. Try doing bridges and cobra stretches. That's what I meant. But it really sounds like your core flexibility is what's limiting you.

[Papa Lazarou]

I think this is becoming my catch phrase: "Avoid pain!"

Anyway,

You might try using a support. Like, hold onto a chair or something while you do it - gives you better control over the movement.


The tightness in your hip that you mention sounds like a common problem. At the moment this doesn't sound like a flexibility issue to me. I expect that your hip alignment for the right leg isn't as good as for the left. But I'm not entirely sure what you're experiencing. I've also never had this problem myself, though I hear about it a lot.

Do you have the same "tightness" feeling when you move into a side split?

[LeYi]

i do sometimes feel a tightness and/or pain in my right hip when i do the side split. but with a little adjustment it feels better. usually the side split stretch doesnt bother me though.

but when i do the drop stance- pubu, i can squat on one leg which would then put my extended leg into a position deeper than i can get with both legs out in a side split- increased abduction of one leg. so, thats probably why i dont have such a problem with the splits yet. but i suspect once i get deeper the hip problem with show up there.

because when i get into the deep position in pubu with the right leg straight to the side, thats when the right hip hurts and wont go lower.

it feels like a pain from a weird or tight stretch in the hip joint, rather than a bone-jamming pain. i think my alignment is correct. often times moving the joint around while in a stretch will help fix the pain, like in the side split.

so i'm not quite sure what it is. all i know is it also pulls on my right hip (base leg) when i do left leg side kicks, and doesnt allow me to turn the hip over and kick higher.

my right leg side kick on the other hand is cool...

[Papa Lazarou]

You mean the outside of your hip get's the tightness?

If so, that would probably not be flexibility - those muscles are shortening not lengthening. It could be that you have severely poor rotational flexibility, but that's highly unlikely.

[LeYi]

yes, its the outside of the hip. i'm assuming its some sort of injury. but its been like that for a long time. even after months of rest.

rotational flexibility could be. because my left side leg swing goes toes up. and if i manually make sure my planted foot turns at least 45 degrees backward during the swing so that the leg does turn over, that hurts the outside of the hip on my right (base) leg.

[Papa Lazarou]

Well, I doubt it's rotational really, probably just an alignment thing. You might just have a particular alignment drilled into your brain for some reason.

If that's the case, you might try solving it with practice rather than training if you know what I mean. Do reps which aren't actually stretching you (let alone hurting - avoid pain!) and just focus on control and trying to get the positioning of your leg/foot right. Do that at any range of motion, whatever you need to get the alignment right. And support yourself by holding a chair or something too if it helps.

I had a similar problem with the side raise. No tightness feeling, but my leg wasn't side on enough. It was a matter of practice for me, not a flexibility or structural problem.


If that sounds dumb... I'll get back to you.

[LeYi]

thanks for all your suggestions, btw!

i've tried doing it lower and slower. and it kinda helps me get the position. but its just the tightness that doesnt go away. the tightness turns to pain when it goes higher.

but how would that relate to not being able to go lower in pubu with my right leg out to the side? it starts as tightness and turns to pain the lower i squat.

but sometimes its not painful. just restricting. its really weird. i suppose the only help would be to see a specialized doctor. but that may cost me some green.

[Papa Lazarou]

Yeah, like I say this seems a pretty common problem so I'm quite interested in it. I'll have to have more of a think about it - I'm stumped at the moment. Might try replicating the feeling for myself when my leg recovers (full power 540 attempts gave me muscle soreness D=). If it's just alignment, I should be able to get the same feeling if I deliberately tilt my hips the wrong way. I'll try that tomorrow I think.

[Graber]

I think for good side kicks u will need to Side Split very good with no worm up on 2 chairs.

[Papa Lazarou]

Not really. Depends what you mean by good. Obviously if you want them really high then you'll need at least that height in passive flexibility. But effective sidekicks are all about power, and only need a fairly low level of flexibility.

[LeYi]

yeah, actually my right sidekick is good. the way i want it. could increase the height but i can already go over my head at 6'1", so i dont really need it. just for the loose flexibility.

but its another story with my left leg. not even head height if i want to do it keeping my foot horizontal and not hurt my base hip- and with good posture.