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Felipe
Oct-15-07, 08:11 AM
Ok this guide will be useful for you trickers, martial artist in general and every sport that require both strong and flexible legs.

Guide to Kicking Exercise
By Felipe - Version 1 (15/10/2007)

FAQ
1) What is passive/dynamic/active flexibilty? What are the stretch for a split?
The mystical Jujimufu wrote a very good guide on this argoment. It's here. (http://www.trickstutorials.com/index.php?page=content/flexibility)
2) What do you want to demonstrate?
Two things mainly:
-kicking is a very complex movement, that involve lots of muscles
-there are some muscles for this movement that you didnt even know you have (or ignore in your training)
3) How much time to get cold split/high kicks/slow kicks?
It really depends, if you train the right way a year would be enough. If you are out of shape, two years is more realistic. If you are a kicks practioner, in six months you will get them all.
4) Why I have to train for gaining higher kicks?
You want both to have a better range of motion and to use it. Example: if you sprain your deltoid, even if you could extend your arm on a wall like previously you couldnt use it, because the muscle cannot generate force at that angle of motion. This type of flexibility is quite useless. Instead you want FULL power at FULL range of motion.

INTRODUCTION
http://www.extremestunts.se/Eng/prof/hanu6.jpg
These specific muscles are required for practising kicks:
-abdominal
-lower back
-leg muscles: quadriceps, hamstrings, ileopsoas, adductors
They have to be strong-and-long.
If you're out of shape, don't do kicks. They are a really demanding exercise. Kurz wrote that for practising kicks with full power and without any problem, you need a pacefull 2xBW deadlift.
This should be the proper order for long-term training (meaning that the firsts muscles must be stronger than the seconds):
abdomen > lower back > biceps,quads and glutes > ileopsoas > adductors
This doesn't mean you should spend little time with adductors and more on abdomen, because you need to compare this power order with the actual size of the muscles. Also you want to know that you will damage poor trained muscles if you don't respect this order.

TRAINING
Abdominal
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/absbig.jpg
You want a great abdomen. It is the most important muscle in your body, the main in the anterior chain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterior_chain). They link upper body with lower body. There are a lot of exercises for it. Start with simple calisthenics like sit-up and reverse crunch. Do tons of them (100,200,500...) then start to do advanced exercises like l-sit holds, dragon flags (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjCMq2zkbOo) and (if you have good ileopsoas) hanging leg raises.

Lower back
http://www.clinicalsportsmedicine.com/_images/chapters/18/Bruckner-2e_18._b.jpg
It's better for you to train your lower back. It is part of the posterior chain (http://weighttraining.about.com/b/a/000011.htm), the engine of your movements. It helps stabilizing your body when you kick. All people on earth suffer lower back pain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_back_pain). Why? Because of the nature of our vertebral column and because...nobody trains it.
Start with back extension on the floor for high reps (3x50 is good).
Then do back extension on the bench (up to 20 rep), and add weights (hold it with your arms).
When you can hold more than 1/3 your BW, you can start training with deadlift.

Quadriceps
http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/Images/exercise-workout/legs-muscle-chart-front.jpg
Everybody has quads. You know how to train them: squats, lots of them (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmXtOuvIqzY). Actually it is not required to have a good squat for kicks, 1xBW is sufficient. But If you want to jump higher, they are your objective.

Hamstrings
http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/Images/exercise-workout/leg-muscle-back.jpg
No one has hamstrings good as quads. They come from deadlift and leg curls, which many people skip/ignore in training. We spent our lives sitting on chairs: because of that harmstring are very hard to elongate (remember the typical school stretch that hurt like hell?). Try to train them more frequently, and you will know how much you neglected them.
Start with simple leg curls, then add deadlift.
Hamstring Raise is one the best exercise, but it's difficult to start with.

Ileopsoas
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Anterior_Hip_Muscles_2.PNG
This little muscle is the one that burns inside your upper part of the legs. It is very important and easy to train.
Learn the right exercises (http://www.stadion.com/column_stretch23.html)

Adductors
See above for the picture
Oh, adductors. Love them or die. They need time and specific conditioning. A good progression for training them is given by Kurz:
-100 free-weights adductors flyes (start by doing 3x20 sets, then increase the number until you reach 100)
-add 1/2 pound and re-start to increase number (3x100)
-add up to 3-5 pounds and cut the number of repetition (3x30)
-add weight and decrease the number of repetition to 15
-start to do adductor pulldowns to the station machine. This should be the first exercise you do at the gym (quoting Mr. Kurz) because of the great stress it puts on lower back.

LINKS
Exrx.net Great Resource of weghts exercises (http://www.exrx.net/Exercise.html)
Free info on flexibility and training for MArtists (http://www.stadion.com/column.html)
My other tutorial for bodyweight exercise (http://www.trickstutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33607)

Birch
Oct-15-07, 08:14 AM
DUDE turn this into a pdf or somethign then send it to me!!

also a sticky would be pretty useful

shengoikee
Oct-15-07, 08:15 AM
this looks fantastic mang. thanks for sharing! i'm certain there are people who will find this very informative. :good;

Felipe
Oct-15-07, 08:54 AM
Here you are a pdf version of it (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FTOG0Z9N)

Torre
Oct-15-07, 11:17 AM
Please use divshare... please...

compleks
Oct-15-07, 04:43 PM
Um, I'm sure everyone appreciates the effort, but I disagree with a few things.

Also, the guide doesn't seem focused on anything. It says it's a guide for kicking, but if that wasn't in the title I wouldn't have known what you were talking about.
All you really did was mention some muscles involved in kicking, and then told us to exercise and stretch them.
There was no specific training format which would apply to increasing power. The whole thing was just kind of vague.

I don't mean to be a prick either. I think it's awesome that you're trying share knowledge, and going to a lot of effort to do so.

Felipe
Oct-16-07, 02:50 AM
Actually the guide is for people who didn't know what muscle they need to improve for kicking and it is vague because I wrote it very quickly...this kind of posts requires some hours or days, I will write something on techinque and specific conditioning later.

Steve
Oct-16-07, 04:17 AM
"Ileopsoas"

short gorilla
Oct-16-07, 01:52 PM
I'm going to have to try the dragon flag. That was pretty cool. Not necessarily a kicking-specific exercise, but awesome none-the-less. You should include some actual kicking drills in here though.

Ashtar
Oct-17-07, 04:49 PM
Besides the deadlift thing (which might be a bit excessive) Kurz also mentioned you should at least be able to squat your bodyweight before thinking about doing martial arts, which makes more sense than the deadlift thing.

compleks
Oct-17-07, 05:03 PM
Neither of them make any sense. What a load of shit.

Ashtar
Oct-17-07, 05:05 PM
Well the squat thing is a good guideline since it builds toughness, like if some guy jumps on your back or something. I don't really understand how the deadlift number was calculated though. It makes me wonder how much Kurz deadlifts.

Steve
Oct-17-07, 06:11 PM
How can you even continue living saying such stupid nonsense Tyciol?

shengoikee
Oct-17-07, 06:13 PM
i just imagined steve kicking tyciol in the chest

Ashtar
Oct-18-07, 04:31 PM
You call everything stupid :p Point is, Kurz did a demo of a deadlift in his movies using a broomhandle, not a barbell with twice his bodyweight, so if he said that, it's kind of strange.

TKDGene
Oct-19-07, 03:39 PM
ileopsoas, how the hell od i train that, and what does it do in kicking, i have never heard of so im quite interested.

Skilzat85X
Oct-19-07, 03:48 PM
You also listed biceps in the list of muscles to be used. Surely you meant biceps femoris?

Final Prophecy
Oct-19-07, 03:53 PM
No skilz he meant yourned "guns" biceps.

Haha.

Deadlift 2x your BW...the hell? I stopped reading the guide after seeing that.

TKDGene
Oct-19-07, 04:05 PM
omg speaking of jamie, final what happened, i have not seen him for a while, was it him that had some run in with fbi or something?

Final Prophecy
Oct-19-07, 04:07 PM
They made a thread about him a couple days ago. Hes training with the cirque du soleil (spelling?) and hes probably still in that medical home. I was going to trick with him when I went to los angeles in august but by that time I pretty much quit tricking.

TKDGene
Oct-19-07, 04:12 PM
ohh ...he did some wiered shit thou :D the break in into the police station lol

anfeyd
Oct-19-07, 07:24 PM
What is an adductor fly?

glide2
Oct-19-07, 09:05 PM
I'm fat.

short gorilla
Oct-20-07, 01:40 AM
I'm fat.

Shut up fatass.

Felipe
Oct-20-07, 08:06 AM
The 1xBW Squat is just an advice from Kurz: like "you have enough strength to kick your opponent ass".
And 2xBW Deadlift is like "you will not have problems with kicks because your lower back is great"
ileopsoas, how the hell od i train that, and what does it do in kicking, i have never heard of so im quite interested.
Since it connects the leg with the abdomen, is quite important for gainining speed and range of motion, but not necessary. It is little and hurts in circular kicks.
You also listed biceps in the list of muscles to be used. Surely you meant biceps femoris?
Yes.
What is an adductor fly?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbpES5v9mj4 at 00:36

glide2
Oct-20-07, 09:22 AM
Shut up fatass.

yes.

Ashtar
Oct-21-07, 05:11 AM
What is an adductor fly?
When the resistance is pulling your legs apart. It's good for women as a rape-prevention mechanism.

anfeyd
Oct-21-07, 11:34 AM
When the resistance is pulling your legs apart. It's good for women as a rape-prevention mechanism.

My question was answered your reply was unnecessary.

Steve
Oct-21-07, 12:33 PM
My question was answered your life was unnecessary.

yes.

Vik
Oct-21-07, 10:41 PM
http://www.extremestunts.se/Eng/prof/hanu6.jpg

he should have seriously wore pants for this photo

and since when does muay thai have kicks that high

Ashtar
Oct-22-07, 04:58 AM
Not everyone can view YouTube vids all the time, text is sometimes also good. Anyway I want to know why this guy has grey all over his feet. It must be that strange ground beneath him.

Zyndrof
Oct-22-07, 05:12 AM
How about dust from the floor? :P

anfeyd
Oct-24-07, 10:28 AM
How many days a week is this supposed to be done?

Felipe
Oct-24-07, 01:48 PM
Initially you can do flyes everyday.
When you start using huge weights, do them 3-4 times a week. Read the progression carefully (100 free-100 little weight-30 med weight-15 huge)