Compound Movement Lifting Routine

[Justin]

1) What are your goals
Be the best drummer I can be. Bring body fat down to about 10% and stay there.
2) What equipment do you have access to?
Drum kit. Weights (bench, straight bar, curved bar, and two sets of dumbells) and about 110kg of weight plates. Mountain bike and big hills. Swimming pool.
3) Where are you right now?
173cm at 87kg at about 26% BF according to the dodgy scales I bought from eBay, haha!
4) What is your history?
Been doing weights training for a few years. In the past I've done martial arts and a bit of tricking. Ended up doing myself a knee injury while tricking and haven't got back into it since then.
My job is IT support. So I sit down most of the day. Hence the need to burn some energy at night and on weekends! This description is pretty accurate (http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1561783).
5) Please, at least make the effort to write in legible english.
Will do. :wink:
6) Don't argue with anyone who posts in your thread.
Roger that.

So, now I've got that out of the way: down to business...

I've been doing a lot of reading lately on t-nation and other sites/forums/mailing lists and the general consensus of the last couple of ideas seems to be pointing out that not everyone needs to do full body workout at the gym. For most people - a properly structured program of compound exercises (http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do;jsessionid=9DB52AD84D30A4C01D7E11FD 67D53757.hydra?id=1765875) is fine. I feel that I fall into this category.
I have no desire to get freaky huge - I'd rather be lean, but muscular.

I've come to the realisation that the thing I am best at is playing drums (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE9dfVAmy5Q). Everything else I do comes second to that. That's just the way it is. So don't flame me for being like that.
So anyway, being a drummer means I have naturally stronger triceps and shoulders (as that's the movement I use most). Biceps and chest are weaker.

I've discovered that lifting heavy weights and then trying to play drums hours afterwards just doesn't work! Because my muscles are already fatigued I play like a gumby - not cool. :punched:

Obviously, fast twitch muscles are of FAR more value to me than slow twitch. I need to get around the kit quickly!
So LISS cardio is pointless. HIIT and explosive weight training FTW!

What I want is a nicely structured set of compound exercises that I can work on. I plan to lift 4 days per week, and swim and stretch on those days also, and do some riding on the other days.
I'm thinking a split routine would be better than a full body thing on all 4 days.

This (http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=483907) article lists the top ten mass building exercises (in Ian King's opinion). It seems to be that 1 to 8 would be good ones to concentrate on.

Is anyone else currently doing a compound routine that I can get some ideas from so I can tailor them to my goal?

[compleks]

I'll try and come back with a better answer when I have more time, but for now...

- In all honesty, I wouldn't even bother thinking about your weight training and drumming as even slightly related. You won't improve your drumming at all with a resistance training routine. I'm sure you drum enough as it is to achieve all the physical requirements of drumming.

- Also, drumming would probably require more slow twitch muscle fibers, as most songs last more than 30seconds. Don't take the fast and slow twitch thing too literally. These adaptations will come naturally from drumming anyway.

- As for the actual routine, I'll come back and see if there's any need for me to reply later.

Cheers.

[wraggers]

to help decrease your body fat, somewhat of a cardio aspect would help alot. when looking at doing an exercise program, you also need to look at your diet, as in cutting out high fat foods, etc and replacing them with healthier options to help aid the rebuilding of muscles etc

[Honken]

to help decrease your body fat, somewhat of a cardio aspect would help alot

Not true.

[mr popular]

Actually, it is true.

Can you imagine an 87kg person with 26% bodyfat doing sprints and other HIIT stuff?

The most important thing here will obviously be his diet, but cardio will help a lot.

To the OP, I'm wondering why you would focus on ONLY compound movements for some reason, when you admitted yourself that your chest and your biceps are weak points? Do you think neglecting entire muscle groups will really solve this problem?

Other than that, I would echo what Compleks is saying here. Weight training to improve your drumming would be interesting, however, and I don't think anybody has ever really tried that.

I would say go ahead with getting into better shape, as it will no doubt help you enjoy drumming more, but don't try to worry about the minutia at this point in time.

As far as recommending a split, there's always the tried and true 4 day split:
day 1: Back/biceps (pull)
day 2: Chest/triceps (push)
day 3: Legs (thighs and/or calves)
day 4: Shoulders (including traps, and whatever extra work you want to do)

[Justin]

To the OP, I'm wondering why you would focus on ONLY compound movements for some reason, when you admitted yourself that your chest and your biceps are weak points? Do you think neglecting entire muscle groups will really solve this problem?

True - Aesthetically, I'd need to bring the lagging muscle groups up to scratch.

Other than that, I would echo what Compleks is saying here. Weight training to improve your drumming would be interesting, however, and I don't think anybody has ever really tried that.

You'd be surprised. I've found weight training has definately increase my speed and power in my playing.
Most drummers tend to focus on proper stretching though and some even do yogo. This really helps with playing!

Day 1: Back/biceps (pull)
Day 2: Chest/triceps (push)
Day 3: Legs (thighs and/or calves)
Day 4: Shoulders (including traps, and whatever extra work you want to do)
Sounds good. Going on those articles, I should probably focus on main excercises below, and leave the stuff in Brackets as more of an after thought (as they are isolated movements and would have already been utilized in the compound movements):

Day 1: Back/Biceps = Bent Over Rows & Chinups (Bicep Curls).
Day 2: Chest/Triceps = Bench Press & Barbell Flys (Tricep Presses).
Day 3: Legs = Normal/Front/Hack Squats & Calve Raises (Leg Presses and Extensions).
Day 4: Shoulders = Shoulder Presses & Delt Raises.
(Ab work as well)

What do you think? Do you have any more to add Compleks?

[Scott]

So Justin, want to move to Los Angeles and join me on my quest for international rockstardom?

[compleks]

I will a bit later, as I'm running late.

One thing, don't neglect your hamstrings.

I'll be back later.

[Justin]

So Justin, want to move to Los Angeles and join me on my quest for international rockstardom?
Sure. Be there in an hour. :wicked:

Hehe. What do you play?
I will a bit later, as I'm running late.

One thing, don't neglect your hamstrings.

I'll be back later.
Will be waiting. :shocked:

[compleks]

Day 1: Back/Biceps = Bent Over Rows & Chinups (Bicep Curls).
Day 2: Chest/Triceps = Bench Press & Barbell Flys (Tricep Presses).
Day 3: Legs = Normal/Front/Hack Squats & Calve Raises (Leg Presses and Extensions).
Day 4: Shoulders = Shoulder Presses & Delt Raises.
(Ab work as well)

What do you think? Do you have any more to add Compleks?

I think it's good that you have set your priorities on the compound lifting. I would also incorporate some form of cardio into your schedule. Probably just 15-20 minutes of higher intensity work twice a week or so.

As for the format of your routine, I'm not hugely keen on split routines, but what you have so far seems fine. I wouldn't split it up anymore though.
I prefer a simple push/pull split, or a few different 'full body' routines done 3-4 times a week.

Anyway, I have to get going now, but I will check back in later.

[Scott]

Sure. Be there in an hour. :wicked:

Hehe. What do you play?

Will be waiting. :shocked:

Singing :juji:

[Justin]

I prefer a simple push/pull split, or a few different 'full body' routines done 3-4 times a week.
Can you give me some examples of those?

[Shaedar]

Instead of calve rises and some other leg work (presses) you should try runing on your toes and front of the foot (like you're trying to sneak on someone). Believe me, you won't be able to walk next day and your calves will explode.
Gains are incredible, so is the pain, but you can lessen it with streching. Besides you probably won't run constantly for an hour and, well you shouldn't if you haven't anticipate in such actions before.

I'd also suggest you to try full body routine, because I find it really rewarding, though it's quite demanding (time and energy).

If I can do it, you can to. :wink:

[anfeyd]

Can you give me some examples of those?

Alternating, A B A workout

Week 1: A B A
Week 2: B A B


A

Back Squats
Hip dominant movement (RDL, Good Morning)
Vertical Push
Vertical Pull
1 or 2 isolation exercises

B

Front Squats
Hip Dominant movement
Horizontal Push
Horizontal Pull
1 or 2 isolation


And the volume is up to you basically. For the above routine it may be beneficial to do squats heavy when you do hip movement lighter, etc.

[Justin]

Singing :juji:
Well this dude used my drum track and put the guitar over it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jxXxgPk7CF4

You could sing it, and then all we need is to add a bass part. :smile: Hehe.

[mr popular]

Sounds good. Going on those articles, I should probably focus on main excercises below, and leave the stuff in Brackets as more of an after thought (as they are isolated movements and would have already been utilized in the compound movements):

Day 1: Back/Biceps = Bent Over Rows & Chinups (Bicep Curls).
Day 2: Chest/Triceps = Bench Press & Barbell Flys (Tricep Presses).
Day 3: Legs = Normal/Front/Hack Squats & Calve Raises (Leg Presses and Extensions).
Day 4: Shoulders = Shoulder Presses & Delt Raises.
(Ab work as well)

What do you think? Do you have any more to add Compleks?

The routine you devised based on my suggestion actually looks pretty appropriate for your goals to be honest. I would only add that it doesn't make sense for you to simply disregard entirely useful exercises simply because they are in a certain category that really has nothing to do with your goals.

Many isolation exercises are very BASIC to increasing strength, and having a balanced physique. Meaning, the guy that avoids them simply because they are "isolation movements" will wind up with muscular imbalances (which you already have, and need to fix), and he likely won't be as strong as the guy who utilized all the tools he could.

Taking this further, you could say that the biceps get utilized during that back workout, but using that as a reason not to exercise your biceps directly is problematic because: a) if you are getting a good bicep workout from bent rows and chinups, you are DOING THEM INCORRECTLY, and (b) simply because they are mechanically involved in the movement, doesn't mean the effect was enough to stimulate strength and size gains in the biceps.

If your biceps are lagging behind your other body parts, avoiding exercises for them will only make it worse. You must make the smaller bodyparts (shoulders, biceps, triceps, calves) stronger just as you must make the larger ones stronger in order for them to grow. That means taking what you are curling now, and adding 50lbs to that. The difference between curling 25lb dumbells for reps, and curling the 80lb dumbells for reps, won't come from an "afterthought".

[Honken]

Actually, it is true.

Can you imagine an 87kg person with 26% bodyfat doing sprints and other HIIT stuff?

When somebody says "cardio" I think hours on hours of slomotion fatburning toning low intensity power walking.

Anaerobic cardiovascular training such as sprints and so on promotes a higher metabolism which helps to burn more fat, but is doesen't directly relate to loss of fat only (but I know what you mean).

[mr popular]

For me cardio means 30 minute brisk walk on a high incline treadmill. For fat loss this should be done either first thing in the morning before breakfast, or immediately after a weight training workout.

I don't recommend jogging. Sprints are great, but fat people doing them is just funny to watch.

[Justin]

Alrighty - I think I've got enough to work with.

Thanks for your help everyone. :good::tongue:

[Gusch]

Alternating, A B A workout

Week 1: A B A
Week 2: B A B


A

Back Squats
Hip dominant movement (RDL, Good Morning)
Vertical Push
Vertical Pull
1 or 2 isolation exercises

B

Front Squats
Hip Dominant movement
Horizontal Push
Horizontal Pull
1 or 2 isolation


And the volume is up to you basically. For the above routine it may be beneficial to do squats heavy when you do hip movement lighter, etc.

That's pretty much what I'm doing and the progress is good.
However, I wonder whether straight sets (which I'm doing atm) or ramping the weight works better.
From past experience with ramping weight I'd say that ramping it yields greater results for me. But the weights were lower back then, so I'm not quite sure.
Any suggestion aside from "do what works best for you"?

Also, does anybody have a suggestion how to incorporate dips AND bench press in one routine without putting priority on one of them?

[mr popular]

Update us on your progress in several months time.

Preferably, 6 months...

[compleks]

That's pretty much what I'm doing and the progress is good.
However, I wonder whether straight sets (which I'm doing atm) or ramping the weight works better.
From past experience with ramping weight I'd say that ramping it yields greater results for me. But the weights were lower back then, so I'm not quite sure.
Any suggestion aside from "do what works best for you"?

Also, does anybody have a suggestion how to incorporate dips AND bench press in one routine without putting priority on one of them?

Ramp it up to a heavy load, and then do your working sets. It's just experimentation really.

As for the bench and dips, if it's not a priority why do you want both in the one routine? I would do an incline dumbbell press and a dip if anything, and try to keep them separated with a few other lifts in between.

[mr popular]

I've always hated dips, they cause me all sorts of problems. haha
Personally I prefer decline, and incline pressing as Compleks suggested. Which is clearly a better option.

[compleks]

I love dips, but they wreak havoc on my sternum.

[mr popular]

They aim to destroy my shoulders and elbows.

currently my chest is trained with incline and flat DB pressing, and decline barbell pressing. All 3 exercises are performed independant on their own days, over the course of a 2 week cycle where each muscle group is hit twice within 8 days time.

To be honest I really miss doing cable flies, cuz they just felt so satisfying. But the way I'm training it's all about aggressive strength gains, and theres just no room for such a small movement. haha

[Justin]

Also, say that I wanted to reduce the bulk in my legs. Would I be better off lifting lighter for lower body movements?

[josias]

Also, say that I wanted to reduce the bulk in my legs. Would I be better off lifting lighter for lower body movements?
why would you want to do that

[compleks]

You just have to loose weight all over.

Or take up marathon running.

[Justin]

Biking riding will help right?

[compleks]

Not necessarily.

It's genetic, and you can't really spot reduce (fat, or muscle). Keep up with your normal goals, and embrace the fact that you have well developed legs.

[Justin]

Ok. Although I'm getting sick of buying bigger pants. Damn squats and deadlifts are making me huge! Hehe.

Thanks compleks.

[compleks]

I wish I had that problem.

You won't gain any size if you're on a calorie deficit though.

[Justin]

I wish I had that problem.
I've just got to get rid of the fat so I can see them. Lol.
You won't gain any size if you're on a calorie deficit though.
That's ok. Just want to cut at the moment.

I've opted for the 3 days per week workout:

1) Dumbbell Flys, Deads, Dips, Abs (upper and lower)
2) Squats, Shoulder Presses, Deltoid Raises, Abs (upper and lower)
3) Bench Presses, Lunges, Barbell Rows, Abs (upper and lower)