difference between muscle and spinal pain

[pete_man_man]

how can i tell if deadlifts are doing damage to my spine??

Anyone know what difference in feeling, spinal pain has to muscle pain??

[compleks]

You might experience some muscle soreness a few days after deadlifting, but any pain while deadlifting is bad news.

We can't really describe the feeling, you should be able to tell.

[Honken]

Make sure that you stick your chest and butt out so that your spine is completely. It should look like as if you were trying to look at the roof while taking it up the ass.

[Steve]

If you rub and perve around your back and can't locate any source of soreness but your back is still in pain then you have spinal problems

[Karlnold]

The screams sounds different.

[TKD_Andy]

If you rub and perve around your back and can't locate any source of soreness but your back is still in pain then you have spinal problems

this is incorrect.

[anfeyd]

Post a video of your deadlift.

[Steve]

No, trust me, I've communicated with him about this, trust me

[jan]

I get a sharp pain in the left side of my back (somewhere around the latissimus dorsi) during some heavy deadlifts. Any idea why this might happen?

[simba_25]

Everyone has different perceptions to pain so its really hard to say 'this is how your muscles hurt and this is how your spine hurts'. Everyone knows how their muscles ache after they've done a workout so if it doesn't feel like that, or feels odd (like something running down your back when it isn't, or pins and needles) then you should go get it seen by a physio.

[jan]

Except the physio I went to with my old back injury went "yeah, lay here under this warm machine for a while, then get a soft backrup, some neck cracking (wtf, I hadn't injured my neck at the time) and pay me $80."

Needless to say, I had to fix my back myself (after 8 visits at the physio and TON of wasted money).

[simba_25]

Yeah you do have to hunt around for a good physio, it took me a year to get one that is actually doing anything about my back. No one on here can tell anyone how to treat it, even if there is someone out there who is qualified.

[chicanerous]

I get a sharp pain in the left side of my back (somewhere around the latissimus dorsi) during some heavy deadlifts. Any idea why this might happen?
Try rolling on a tennis ball on it or foam rolling that part of your back for a few weeks.

[Rahf]

Compressing a disk will leave you screaming on the floor and possibly leave you out of the game for life. Acute spinal pain will probably be felt instantly as if someone pierces your body with a humongous needle. Muscle pain is mostly residual. That's personal experience mind you.

Jan: Perhaps you can't keep tension in your shoulder blades and drop them abit? That's at least what acknowledged itself as hurt after my last heavy DL :sad:

[jan]

Hmmm... Maybe so. I'll try both massaging with a tennis ball and trying to focus on keeping shoulderblade tension.

Thanks:D

[Kon-El]

Compressing a disk will leave you screaming on the floor and possibly leave you out of the game for life.
this isn't totally true, people use the words 'slipped', 'bulging, and 'herniated' interchangeably sometimes but they're at the very least different levels of the same thing if not actually different things. An MRI showed that i head 3 slightly bulging discs, the first doctor said I was done, forget weight lifting or MA, etc . Later i saw other doctors and they were like, those are hardly significant, you might've had them before you ever weight lifted. It turned out the pain I had which ran through my glutes was because of an anomaly in my spine (probably natural).
recently however, i felt an acute pain in my lower lumbar, I immediately knew this was different. So now to be safe I'm taking a month off, while also applying heat and stretching/deloading of the spine(hanging, inverted hanging) If in a month I'm not fine Ill see an MD, not a physio.
theres no moral here, just telling my story. and yes tehre is a big difference between muscle pain (sorness, doms, or even a tear) and an actual spinal pain

[Kon-El]

actually i just thought of one moral, i got the pain most likely from a failed clean. I had thought that I had the form down, at least to the point of it being safe (maybe not super efficient) and yet now i've got some pretty acute pain. moral is, don't O-lift without a teacher, ppl get away with it sure, but its probably a bad idea.

[anfeyd]

I've gotten away with it. I'm actually going to post one of my cleans next week for critique.

[chicanerous]

actually i just thought of one moral, i got the pain most likely from a failed clean. I had thought that I had the form down, at least to the point of it being safe (maybe not super efficient) and yet now i've got some pretty acute pain. moral is, don't O-lift without a teacher, ppl get away with it sure, but its probably a bad idea.
Maybe you should have learned how to fail a clean safely? If you've done that and still injure yourself, it's considered an accident and, by definition, there's no way you could have prevented it with a coach or not.

[Honken]

moral is, don't O-lift without a teacher, ppl get away with it sure, but its probably a bad idea.

Perfect "I told you so" opportunity.

[anfeyd]

Perfect "I told you so" opportunity.

Perfect, "read chicanerous' post" opportunity.

[Kon-El]

Maybe you should have learned how to fail a clean safely? If you've done that and still injure yourself, it's considered an accident and, by definition, there's no way you could have prevented it with a coach or not.
*smacks forehead* all the research I did and I somehow never came across that. on top of that, i stupidly tried to hold it up for a moment when i realized i failed to clean it, rather than immediately drop it... sigh.. too late for regrets now.. oh well, ill just have to get shredded through a month or two of biking and swimming :D strength loss will suck though as even weighted pullups hurt a lil...

[simba_25]

*smacks forehead* all the research I did and I somehow never came across that. on top of that, i stupidly tried to hold it up for a moment when i realized i failed to clean it, rather than immediately drop it... sigh.. too late for regrets now.. oh well, ill just have to get shredded through a month or two of biking and swimming :D strength loss will suck though as even weighted pullups hurt a lil...

Trust me, in the long run you resting and getting your back better is worth the strength loss, its better than being told that you can't do what you want anymore, that really does suck.

[Ashtar]

Compressing a disk will leave you screaming on the floor and possibly leave you out of the game for life. Acute spinal pain will probably be felt instantly as if someone pierces your body with a humongous needle. Muscle pain is mostly residual. That's personal experience mind you.Err... every disk in my spine is compressed just from standing up. Hell, even when I sleep they're still under slight compression from passive muscle tension.

this isn't totally true, people use the words 'slipped', 'bulging, and 'herniated' interchangeably sometimes but they're at the very least different levels of the same thing if not actually different things. An MRI showed that i head 3 slightly bulging discs, the first doctor said I was done, forget weight lifting or MA, etc . Later i saw other doctors and they were like, those are hardly significant, you might've had them before you ever weight lifted. It turned out the pain I had which ran through my glutes was because of an anomaly in my spine (probably natural).
recently however, i felt an acute pain in my lower lumbar, I immediately knew this was different. So now to be safe I'm taking a month off, while also applying heat and stretching/deloading of the spine(hanging, inverted hanging) If in a month I'm not fine Ill see an MD, not a physio.
theres no moral here, just telling my story. and yes tehre is a big difference between muscle pain (sorness, doms, or even a tear) and an actual spinal pain
Yeah I think he meant to use one of those terms.

[Hume]

how can i tell if deadlifts are doing damage to my spine??

Anyone know what difference in feeling, spinal pain has to muscle pain??

Muscle pain will be at off angles to the actual spine or near it, If your spine is the problem try bending backwards and forwards and looking for a sort of grinding pain which flows along youre spine exactly.

I work as a bouncer just now, and a problem i aquired from dead lifts reapeared when I stood for long periods of time, like a sharp pain in the small of the back.

[pete_man_man]

it appears i'm doing deadlifts wrong.... all will be well now

[Steve]

Ha ha Rahf. Yes, compressing the spine doesn't do shit, and even if you pinch a nerve or burst a disk it's still not as horrible as you make it sound.

[Honken]

Perfect, "read chicanerous' post" opportunity.

No, more like I've been preaching about having a qualified teacher since I started debating about OL in the first place.

[anfeyd]

No, more like I've been preaching about having a qualified teacher since I started debating about OL in the first place.

Whether Kon-El had a coach or not wouldn't have mattered really, he did not get hurt in the execution of the pull but after he failed to clean it in which case a coach may have made a difference but I doubt it.

[Rahf]

Ha ha Rahf. Yes, compressing the spine doesn't do shit, and even if you pinch a nerve or burst a disk it's still not as horrible as you make it sound.

Then how bad is it? Do share if you're sitting on the correct info.

[Honken]

Whether Kon-El had a coach or not wouldn't have mattered really, he did not get hurt in the execution of the pull but after he failed to clean it in which case a coach may have made a difference but I doubt it.

True, but if he had a coach from the beginning to the end then it wouldn't of had to happen IMO. Accidents do happen yeah, but the times when I injured/hurt myself was the times when nobody was around.

[chicanerous]

True, but if he had a coach from the beginning to the end then it wouldn't of had to happen IMO. Accidents do happen yeah, but the times when I injured/hurt myself was the times when nobody was around.
Haha. That makes no sense. The coach has nothing to do with you not injuring or hurting yourself. You are the one lifting the weight and the coach can't spot you when you miss a lift. It's up to you to keep yourself from getting injured. The only way a coach would have helped Kon-El, as I said, was that he would show him how to properly miss a lift. However, again, this isn't rocket science and learning it himself would have had the same results.

If we want to start giving anecdotal (i.e. useless) evidence, I've never had a coach. I've never injured myself cleaning, snatch, or jerking. While I'm extremely weak for a weightlifter, I've power cleaned 100 kg and jerked 120 kg from the rack at a bodyweight of 77 kg. That's certainly enough external load to cause some damage, yet it's never happened.

[anfeyd]

The only damage i've done was losing a snatch behind me on my back porch and causing a massive hole in the porch. Other than that i've cleaned 235 lbs, but it's not my max.

[compleks]

How's it going, Chicanerous?

[compleks]

What's up, Anfeyd?

[chicanerous]

It's going well, compleks. How are things down under?

[jan]

Haha. That makes no sense. The coach has nothing to do with you not injuring or hurting yourself. You are the one lifting the weight and the coach can't spot you when you miss a lift. It's up to you to keep yourself from getting injured. The only way a coach would have helped Kon-El, as I said, was that he would show him how to properly miss a lift. However, again, this isn't rocket science and learning it himself would have had the same results.

If we want to start giving anecdotal (i.e. useless) evidence, I've never had a coach. I've never injured myself cleaning, snatch, or jerking. While I'm extremely weak for a weightlifter, I've power cleaned 100 kg and jerked 120 kg from the rack at a bodyweight of 77 kg. That's certainly enough external load to cause some damage, yet it's never happened.

Awww, I feel like a pussy now:( My max clean and jerk is 100kg:( WEAKKKKKKKKKKKK!

[compleks]

It's pouring rain at the moment, which is good for the drought (but sucks for most other things).
Other than that, all is well.

[compleks]

You guys make me feel weak.

[chicanerous]

Awww, I feel like a pussy now:( My max clean and jerk is 100kg:( WEAKKKKKKKKKKKK!
"Chicanerous: If you're going to jerk it, you better clean it."

I feel ironic now -- though the double-entendre still rocks. :tongue:

[anfeyd]

I'm doing good compleks, still a little bit of groin problems but im managing. How are you this fine evening?

[jan]

"Chicanerous: If you're going to jerk it, you better clean it."

I feel ironic now -- though the double-entendre still rocks. :tongue:

Hahaha. Think before writing next time ololol etc.

:P

[compleks]

I'm doing good compleks, still a little bit of groin problems but im managing. How are you this fine evening?

I am doing most excellently.

[tracekillz]

mm..according to my handy dandy physical exams book as well as my lieutenant and IDC, plus my marines that come in with back problems, it can vary. but there is DEFINITELY a difference between what you call "spinal pain" and muscle pain. muscle pain is generally sore and somewhat dull (depending on the mechanism of injury) could be sharp as well. but spinal injury would more than likely be a shooting pain. the lower lumbar is a common location for injury. it could affect your sciatic nerve and shoot down either leg (usually one or the other). as far as specific injuries go, it gets a little complicated. there are different signs and symptoms. however, one definite symptom would be loss of sensation (not numbness...but LOSS of sensation; i.e. sharp things feel dull etc.) if thats the case, then get a referral to neuro and they can check you out...and maybe hook you up with a pain clinic or something. i'm getting sidetracked tho...so to sum it up



muscle pains: range from sharp to dull, tolerable and intolerable (pretty broad, i know) there should also be other signs/symptoms that would lead to the conclusion.
spinal injuries: usually a sharp, shooting pain. check for sensation in your extremities. again, also fortified by signs/symptoms.


and yes, you SHOULD be able to tell the difference. there ARE exceptions, but generally youll be able to tell.

[Kon-El]

haha i guess to help out chic (as he has has been a great to asset in my quest for knowledge -thanks chic!) I was a lil err... distracted when i hurt myself. Also I think I misjudged the pain (ironic as i was confident I could tell the difference) it is more likely a bad strain then anything else, a few more weeks should do it (which still totals to about 6 weeks of only swimming/pullups/dips). All I'll say is that they should ban hot pants in weight lifting gyms! what are girls doing down there in the first place, they should be upstairs on their ellipticals and assisted pullup machines! haha
that said i still havent learned how to properly 'miss' a clean. Link anyone?

[Casper]

if you do it right there wont be no pain fool

[Ashtar]

Hm, no leg extension/curl/BW squat/pistol/dip belt squat/ etc?

[Kon-El]

I know I have'nt exhausted the list of exercises that might be safe to do, but all I know is, back when the pain was worse, even pistols, elbow levers and weighted dips hurt slightly. I'm just being really safe. (Especially as i sorta rehurt my back recently but in a different way now, I took a hard ground fall, made pain shoot like crazy throughout my lower back and sitz bones) Injuries suck. Anything on missing a clean right?

[Ashtar]

If it hurts when you're not even compressing the back then there's probably a ligament injury or something. Or it could be a muscle injury, I think they get stretched too from decompression.

I can't figure why it would hurt in a pistol but not in a BW squat since it's the same load, it might have to do with how you have to stabilize a lot more.

[Kon-El]

this thread should have died already but anyway to answer your question. its not that I cannot physically do them or that they hurt. The way I see it is the better I rest the faster I heal. pistols are bound to work the lower back a little hence, it may slow down the healing. I know pro's will sometimes be on crutches just because of an ankle injury,surely they can walk without them, but the slight stress would keep them from healing as fast as possible. fin

[Ashtar]

In this case, shouldn't you also be using crutches? Since your back tends to round in a pistol (especially when not holding extra weight) it would work it a little, but probably not much more than a BW squat where your back also rounds, so you could test it with that. Some motion can actually be good for recovery, depending on the severity of injury, for circulation or whatever.

But yeah, crutches would take weight off your lower back, they create the same kind of traction you get doing dips, hanging from a bar, etc.

[Rahf]

Would it really matter if the back rounded if you don't have any extra weight?

[chicanerous]

Would it really matter if the back rounded if you don't have any extra weight?
Potentially, but the risk is much smaller because the forces are much lower and we're usually adept at manipulating our own bodyweight without injury, though it still happens.

[Honken]

It'd be like a spontaneous slipped disc.

[Ashtar]

Weight is weight, even your bodyweight can injure you, especially if you're already injured, or if you do it ballistically (like how when I bend over to tie my shoe I'm in a rush so I just accelerate down there.).

[compleks]

You really do live life on the edge, don't you Ashtar?

[jan]

Hahaha, great reply:P