Static Active Stretching

[Diz2007]

Just one thing I'd like to know about it...What is the best time of day to do it?Thanks.

[Artis]

Just one thing I'd like to know about it...What is the best time of day to do it?Thanks.


Today, exactly at midnight would be perfect time to do it :tongue:

lol

[Ashtar]

The key is to ignore daylight saving's time and maintain a consistant midnight.

[Diz2007]

*Takes Complex's line* You are a strange unit Ashtar.

[Jimnast]

The best time to do any stretching, is when you feel your best I mean come on, otherwise just do it whenever.

[short gorilla]

Best time to do it is after you do dynamic stretching, but before you do passive stretching. Time of day would be after you have been out and about and fairly active, so maybe afternoon or evening. But really you can physically do it at any time and get benefit as long as you warm up properly.

[Ashtar]

Why do they say to do it after dynamic and not before again?

[short gorilla]

Why do they say to do it after dynamic and not before again?

Because you do dynamic as a part of a warmup generally speaking. I would think the fatigue from the static active stretching would make dynamics harder anyways.

[Diz2007]

Thanks chaps.I knew not to do it before Dynamic though:tongue:

Edit:Result = Midday.

[Ashtar]

Static-active stretches involve muscle tension, so shouldn't they also warm you up?

As for the fatigue making dynamics harder, is that a bad thing? A large risks seems to be kicking too hard and the movement becoming ballistic and tearing the stretched muscle. If you're fatigued, you can't kick so hard, so wouldn't it protect you?

[Jimnast]

Doing dynamics when fatigued, limits the rom of your kicks resetting the maximum at a lower level. Therefore you'll go backwards and not increase your dynamic rom.

[Ashtar]

I don't think it would reset your rom at a minimum, if it were that easy then just walking without doing giant jumpkicks with every step would do that.

Being fatigued isn't necessarily going to limit the height, it depends on how fatigued really. It's not as if you're going to be pushed to your limits lifting the weight of your leg if you do progressive movements to strengthen your hip flexors and give them endurance.

[Papa Lazarou]

Why do they say to do it after dynamic and not before again?

I think it's because dynamics are generally a better warm-up. Also, doing dynamic stretches after static-active stretches could reduce the effectiveness of the dynamics. I know static-passive stretches reduce strength and coordination, and increase pain tolerance (not good before dynamic exercise). It seems likely that static-active stretches would have similar effects.

Basically, if you wanted an ideal session of dynamic stretches, you wouldn't do static-active stretches beforehand. Yeah you could still do the dynamics and gain from them, but they just wouldn't be as effective as possible.

[Ashtar]

Gorilla and jimnast just said that.

Static-passive and static-active stretches do not work the same way at all. The reason static-passive stretches weaken the muscle being stretched is because that muscle is being stressed by putting weight on it until it relaxes and lengthen, or by using things like ... P... contraction word thing. Static-active stretches tense the opposite muscle, to relax the one being stretched. It probably is still stressed a little, but much less since many fibres are automatically relaxed due to recipricol inhibition. It's also not really the same issues of pain tolerance either. Soreness from static-active stretching comes from shortening the fibres a lot. If anything it's probably lactic acid getting trapped in there which will go away when you stop dong it.

[Papa Lazarou]

I was answering the gist of this:

Being fatigued isn't necessarily going to limit the height, it depends on how fatigued really. It's not as if you're going to be pushed to your limits lifting the weight of your leg if you do progressive movements to strengthen your hip flexors and give them endurance.

You're basically saying "yeah, but you could still do them". And I'm saying "yeah, but they wouldn't be ideal" or "yeah, but they are less likely to be ideal".

Thanks for correcting me about the static-active stretches though, that was interesting.

[Ashtar]

What I mean is, if you're going to be doing dynamic front raises, you're right in that you don't want to push your hip flexors to utter failure doing static-active front raise stretching...

But since you're not doing them to failure anyway (juji's guide says emphasize height over duration held), the amount of fatigue you accumulate holding it for what, 10 seconds? Is probably not going to make you unable to use the small amount of power it requires to do front raises with just the weight of your leg, if you're already strong with good endurance, which you would be from training static-active stretches regularly like that (along with stuff like weighted leg raises and pulley stuff).

Despite the advice to deemphasize the use of momentum in dynamic raises, it's undeniable that some momentum is used. It's momentum generated by the muscle in a stretched position being used to carry it into a contracted position it wouldn't normally be able to pull itself. The 'don't use momentum' seems to refer to not bringing the leg behind you, where the momentum would be generated simply by your leg falling, rather than any muscle tension.

[short gorilla]

But since you're not doing them to failure anyway (juji's guide says emphasize height over duration held), the amount of fatigue you accumulate holding it for what, 10 seconds?

That's a good point. I tend to try and hold them for closer to 30 seconds, so I guess I would get fatigued more than someone holding for less time. In this case it's really just a matter of how you train each different area.

Like so many other debates it boils down to personal preference and application.

[Jimnast]

Personally I do my static active stretches whenever I desire, before dynamic, before static after etc, but I usually hold them for about 15 seconds. And you'd have to really hold them for a long time to really fatigue to the point that they effect your dynamic stretches. The kind of fatigue I was referring to that decreases your rom is like an endurance effort to the point that your muscles begin to release lactic acid. The repetitions of a dynamic stretch to a certain height sets the max rom, if your leg is so fatigued that the rom begins to decrease, the repetitions at that lowered rom will reset max rom at that level seing as your body feels you can't get past that point.

Attaining such fatigue from static active stretching I think is highly unlikely. But as gorilla says, it's a personal thing, if you find the order in which you do it is negatively affecting you switch it up, it could be to due to numerous reasons, that through training won't maintain and therefore you can switch the order back again. Just do what's best for you.

[Ashtar]

Now I get it, and I agree with you Jimnast, if you are so badly fatigued the muscle can't lift the leg to an adequate height that's bad. The whole 'constant fresh' thing for motor patterns is something in Dogen's guide too.