nonsense

[dpitlock]

"IF YOU DON'T THROW KICKS UR NOT A TRICKSTER"

i hate that. ftw

[Skippy]

It's nice to throw a few kicks in once in a while though. I mean twisting and flipping by itself isn't too interesting =P

But if a guy doesn't want to kick, noone should ask him to admittedly haha, some people just don't like to kick.

[dpitlock]

I believe If you have kicks your a better trickster, because you have more diversity. But, the non-kicker is still a trickster.

[Skippy]

Oh yeah agreed, to an extent, I don't think someone who just throws out tumbling all day can really be a trickster. But if someone done like a cart-full-miss leg full then I'd hardly call it gymnastics.

[Nathan.P.]

I believe If you have kicks your a better trickster, because you have more diversity. But, the non-kicker is still a trickster.

Well this topic has come up way to much on this forum haha but my opinion is tricks are just gay flips with out kicks...kicks are what make tricking special and different.

But idk I guess if you want to just do flips and call yourself a tricker then w/e.....although these people will only be able to learn a little bit of tricks since so much of tricking requires good basic kicks. Especially if you want to have any kind of good clean style.

[simon]

I'M A DIRTY FRAT BOY ON A DIRTY SOCCER TEAM, GO INTO THE LOCKER ROOM AFTER WRESTLING.

[Yuri]

I agree with this completely. It is such a double standard.

If someone releases a sampler of mostly flips people will say kick more, but if someone has a sampler of all kicks and a couple shitty flips noone will say to work on flips.

Do both!!!!!
Tumblers work on your kicking!!!!!
Kickers work on your tumbling!!!!

But ultimately, do what you want. Practice what makes you happy. If kicks are no fun for you then do not worry about them, likewise for flips. But it is good to be well rounded.

It will make the world a better place.

Thanks for bringing this up dan, it has been on my mind for quite some time.

[simon]

bubba needs to work on his flips.
fucking martial arts geeks.


only kidding i couldn't love brendyn much more than i do.

[mm tacos rock]

"IF YOU DON'T THROW KICKS UR NOT A TRICKSTER"

i hate that. ftw
If you get all the basics, then you should already have a 360 and a 540. Both are easy enough so if you're in good enough shape to tumble, then why can't you kick!? WHY!?

[Yuri]

if you are in good enough shape to kick why can't you tumble?!!1

backflip is easy enough

[mm tacos rock]

if you are in good enough shape to kick why can't you tumble?!!1

backflip is easy enough
I guess we as trickster hold ourselves and each other to a high standard. Sometimes that's good.

[sesshoumaru]

"IF YOU DON'T THROW KICKS UR NOT A TRICKSTER"

i hate that. ftw

I know you hate it, and I hate that it's like this...but it's better this way. Think about it like this...You can be a tricker without doing kicks [being a tricker at heart], but when you trick; it won't be distinguishable between other physical performance arts [gymnastics, parkour, etc.].

It's like saying you're left handed, when you never use your left hand...

It's like saying you're a ballet dancer, but all you do is breakdance...

It's like saying you're not gay, but all you do is rub stomachs with other guys...

:: It's confusing ::

[mm tacos rock]

I know you hate it, and I hate that it's like this...but it's better this way. Think about it like this...You can be a tricker without doing kicks [being a tricker at heart], but when you trick; it won't be distinguishable between other physical performance arts [gymnastics, parkour, etc.].

It's like saying you're left handed, when you never use your left hand...

It's like saying you're a ballet dancer, but all you do is breakdance...

It's like saying you're not gay, but all you do is rub stomachs with other guys...

:: It's confusing ::
That doesn't make me gay. -_-

[Skilzat85X]

It's like saying you're not gay, but all you do is rub stomachs with other guys...

Lol quit making me laugh in the middle of my programming class.

Anyways I'm all for kicks and all that...but if you can only kick but you can't flip or twist it's pretty ehhh.

It's not like it's even hard to flip, there's such a shallow variety of them. Back Flip? Ok, you have that, then it's friends the fulltwist variations, maybe X-out and Flash Kick. Front Flip? Ok, you have that and it's friend webster. Maybe you'll say an Aerial is a flip. Ok, it has a few variations. And noone really does Side Flips...
Then some gainers, then maybe you'll say Raiz is flip-like...

So...what now? Flips are ez.

You see, whether or not a newbie is kicking in the beginning or not doesn't matter. Look at me! I did nothing but flip (couple twists) for over a year! There wasn't anything remotely kick-like in my arsenal, I didn't even think about it.
And now BAM basically everything I'm working on now involves some sort of kick. And I practice basic kicks.
Not because I wanna "be a TRIXORZ".
But because kicking is fun.

Give people some time, they'll move on to it sooner or later.

[gabrielb]

Lol quit making me laugh in the middle of my programming class.

Anyways I'm all for kicks and all that...but if you can only kick but you can't flip or twist it's pretty ehhh.

It's not like it's even hard to flip, there's such a shallow variety of them. Back Flip? Ok, you have that, then it's friends the fulltwist variations, maybe X-out and Flash Kick. Front Flip? Ok, you have that and it's friend webster. Maybe you'll say an Aerial is a flip. Ok, it has a few variations. And noone really does Side Flips...
Then some gainers, then maybe you'll say Raiz is flip-like...

So...what now? Flips are ez.

You see, whether or not a newbie is kicking in the beginning or not doesn't matter. Look at me! I did nothing but flip (couple twists) for over a year! There wasn't anything remotely kick-like in my arsenal, I didn't even think about it.
And now BAM basically everything I'm working on now involves some sort of kick. And I practice basic kicks.
Not because I wanna "be a TRIXORZ".
But because kicking is fun.

Give people some time, they'll move on to it sooner or later.

flips physically are easy..mentally their not.

[J-Slide]

i agree like nigga you dont see god damn gymnasts or cheerleaders doing btwist > corks or anything no ..no thats a tricking thing. i allso do thing that it makes people more creative than others a diverse them more when you kick but like? my type of tricks are more power and less kicks but i try mad hard to kick speaking i have no martial arts backround but..i like this thread

[J-Slide]

It's like saying you're not gay, but all you do is rub stomachs with other guys...

:: It's confusing ::

ahah i love you

[Skilzat85X]

flips physically are easy..mentally their not.

Psh I landed by first "back flip with hands" lol out of nowhere with no warm up or no preparation. It's easy! JUST DO IT!

http://www.gameoven.com/video_thumbnails/Nike%20Soccer%20Video.jpeg

[JiayoJames]

haha so THAT's why you always trick with shoes on... sponsorship lol.

[Tocano]

I started out with flips because I thought kicks would be really hard. Then I actually tried a 540 and realized it was easy. I learn kicks much faster because theres never any fear to overcome. Compared to a cork or something where you fall and smash your face into the ground D:

[Skilzat85X]

haha so THAT's why you always trick with shoes on... sponsorship lol.

Plus comme
http://www.newbalancechicago.com/images/NBCorpLogo_Red.gif

[Skilzat85X]

Plus comme
http://www.newbalancechicago.com/images/NBCorpLogo_Red.gif

Plus comme
http://www.1cre.co.jp/img/page1/feiyue-w01.jpg

[Skilzat85X]

Plus comme
http://www.1cre.co.jp/img/page1/feiyue-w01.jpg
Plus comme
http://www.johnlewis.com/jl_assets/product/000003728.jpg

[sesshoumaru]

That doesn't make me gay. -_-

Is that a statement, or a question?

[gabrielb]

Psh I landed by first "back flip with hands" lol out of nowhere with no warm up or no preparation. It's easy! JUST DO IT!

http://www.gameoven.com/video_thumbnails/Nike%20Soccer%20Video.jpeg

its weird i have this huge mental block where if i dont feel someones hand on my back or think their hand is near me to spot i cant flip. they dont even have to save me...im just so used to a spotter i can flip without one...unless im on a tumble track or tramp. im working towards gradually flipping without a spotter...just not there yet.

[Skilzat85X]

Just jump up and look back at the ground dang it haha.


Say goodbye fear of going backwards!

[thereid]

i agree like nigga you dont see god damn gymnasts or cheerleaders doing btwist > corks or anything no ..no thats a tricking thing. i allso do thing that it makes people more creative than others a diverse them more when you kick but like? my type of tricks are more power and less kicks but i try mad hard to kick speaking i have no martial arts backround but..i like this threadI think most good gymnnasts would have an easy time learning cork and b-twist because they most-likely already possess the physical ability and air awareness. But they just don't have any reason to do it. And b-twist is a gymnastic move just so you know(it's called a tong-fei I think).

[gabrielb]

I think most good gymnnasts would have an easy time learning cork and b-twist because they most-likely already possess the physical ability and air awareness. But they just don't have any reason to do it. And b-twist is a gymnastic move just so you know(it's called a tong-fei I think).

for some reason i remember a gymnastics btwist looking different than a martial arts one.

[JiayoJames]

Plus comme
http://www.1cre.co.jp/img/page1/feiyue-w01.jpg

FTW!

[Yuri]

for some reason i remember a gymnastics btwist looking different than a martial arts one.

http://drillsandskills.com/video/display?path=bfb006.mpg

you be the judge

[sesshoumaru]

http://drillsandskills.com/video/display?path=bfb006.mpg

you be the judge

Hmm, it's called a "tongfei"? Sounds pretty "chinese" if you ask me...You know what else, Wushu [where the Btwist originates from] is also a "chinese" martial art. You know what else, I bet the first person to do a tongfei in gymnastic competition was chinese as well. I wonder where he got it from? Doesn't the practice of Wushu/Kung Fu date back before gymnastics was founded? Hhmmm...

[Yuri]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMAVqG8DLWs

I think it was this guy

[Pirate!!]

Cool, I enjoyed that video.

[anerky]

What an awesome video, Baron!

I might be wrong, but I'll bet the "tongfei" was a creative addition to only a few routines. Like, if you go into a gym full of knowledgeable gymnasts and ask one to do a tongfei, they will be confused. I've seen routines that mix in some creative movements of the gymnasts choice...the guy may have dabbled in wushu at some point previously.

[sesshoumaru]

PMAVqG8DLWs

I think it was this guy

What do you know, he's chinese :tongue:

[glide2]

There seems to be a double standard in tricking regarding flips. It's funny how when someone throws a double back or triple full in a battle, everyone goes nuts even when the person crashes. Yet nobody seems to care when they see a gymnast throw a double layout and triple full with perfect form, because well, they're gymnasts and they're trained for such things, while trickers are not, so trickers deserve more credit for doing a triple full, even if their form is atrocious.

[sesshoumaru]

There seems to be a double standard in tricking regarding flips. It's funny how when someone throws a double back or triple full in a battle, everyone goes nuts even when the person crashes. Yet nobody seems to care when they see a gymnast throw a double layout and triple full with perfect form, because well, they're gymnasts and they're trained for such things, while trickers are not, so trickers deserve more credit for doing a triple full, even if their form is atrocious.

That's not the same thing as a "double standard", but we understand what you mean...and for the most part, you're right.

[brandonn]

if you dont kick and call yourself a trickster, in my honest opinion, you fail.


but to each their own....

[anerky]

I have yet to see an impressive gymnast video being ignored, people are posting them on here all the time. Everyone gives props, except for the occasional noob trying to sound cool.

When I see a trickster land a double back, no matter how little I know about them, I feel like a friend of mine has landed a double back. It's easy to go nuts when a friend lands something sick. When the gymnast video is posted, you don't get the feeling of closeness. That's how I feel anyway. Nobody will ever say that the bad double back was better than the perfect full in full out.

[Augenatic]

I love kicks. They're not hard. I don't understand why people don't do them.

[bobcheese]

l0l figures someone would make a thread like this sooner or later kicks are win ^.^

[Ambitrixterous]

I read Dan's post (the first one), and nothing in between. I'll say the same thing I said last time this came up and my team will back me up on this:

"If you're doing tricks, you're a tricker. If you're having gay sex, you're gay." You don't just 'participate' on select movements. Tricking is tricking, we all know what's involved!

[mike111590]

I read Dan's post (the first one), and nothing in between. I'll say the same thing I said last time this came up and my team will back me up on this:

"If you're doing tricks, you're a tricker. If you're having gay sex, you're gay." You don't just 'participate' on select movements. Tricking is tricking, we all know what's involved!

lol gay sex

[slik]

Idiots.

Balance.

Yey.

[AjStyles]

Kicking is a very important part of tricking.
And it makes a lot of difference.
Kicks makes you looks stronger, more special, and really help you to earn respect.
But is still a personal preference.
If you dont like to kick, still nobody can force you.

I still remember i went do some flip at the football field, and those idiot kids says:
"Your mama must be a monkey".

The next day i went there and show them some kicks.
And then they only show me the respect.

[AndyD11]

personally i think since kicking is such a big part of tricking if someone did no kicks at all then even though they may still be a tricker they would probably not be as repected or aclaimed as someone who can kick or tries to kick.
I mean kicks are an assential part of combo's and add variety to samplers and your tricks. I dunno i'm just rambling now, i like kicks, i will perform kicks, i appreciate a sampler more when it has kicks in it, i think you're not a completely true tricker if you do not kick but can still be considered a tricker in all intents and purposes. My opinion :smile: don't like it, megabite me :smile:

[Flowers]

After getting the double back and double full on relative lock, I decided to start practicing kicks, which felt like I was installing an expansion pack onto the tricking game already loaded onto my brain computer.

I don't really know where I'm going with this, but learning any new move is fun.

[Dragonic MiKe]

I read Dan's post (the first one), and nothing in between. I'll say the same thing I said last time this came up and my team will back me up on this:

"If you're doing tricks, you're a tricker. If you're having gay sex, you're gay." You don't just 'participate' on select movements. Tricking is tricking, we all know what's involved!

What if you like rimming but hate the idea of cock in your ass?

Are you still gay then?

[J-kob]

Kicking is a very important part of tricking.

So are flips and twists. I completely agree with baron on this one.

But I look it from this way. If you don't do either flips or twists or kicks, you're missing 1/3 of fun and things in tricking :wink:

But this is also very subjective. I mean, since I'm rather new to tricking, have no MA background, my strecthing ability is quite low (it has risen a lot since I started tricking though), I always felt like focusing more on twists and flips since it was kinda easier to do (excluding 360 and 540kick, which are easy), and therefore, more fun to do.

But I don't really worry, since I know there will be time when I'll focus on kicks, train them more often and therefore perform kicks as equal as flips & twists :wicked:

Personal preference...

[TKD_Andy]

"IF YOU DON'T THROW KICKS UR NOT A TRICKSTER"

i hate that. ftw

martial arts tricks...

so unless you're doing corks and ending in a nice knifehand strike then you've got to throw kicks.

kicks = win.
not throwing kicks = fail.

What if you like rimming but hate the idea of cock in your ass?

Are you still gay then?

haha, you're priceless mike :tongue:

[AndyD11]

you've got to throw kicks.



why? does the world like end if you don't :s

[TKD_Andy]

why? does the world like end if you don't :s

*sigh*

all the best trickers are kickers. Enough said.

[Augenatic]

so unless you're doing corks and ending in a nice knifehand strike

Haha yyyeeaahhh! B-twist - Full s/t G-switch s/t Cork - Axe2AerialTwist ... punch! Yey I do tricks.

[nightak]

*sigh*

all the best trickers are kickers. Enough said.

QFT :good:

[Dave]

if you are in good enough shape to kick why can't you tumble?!!1

backflip is easy enough

Not really. I can kick ok.. ish... but can't do a standing backsault. However I can ro > back on grass and stuff. I think I'm just too weak to backsault.

Oh and I have no fear at all.

[Dave]

... If you're having gay sex, you're gay." You don't just 'participate' on select movements.

Or you could be bisexual, experimenting, really drunk or Joe Eigo.

[Dave]

I still remember i went do some flip at the football field, and those idiot kids says:
"Your mama must be a monkey".

The next day i went there and show them some kicks.
And then they only show me the respect.

Hahahhahahahahhaa sig'd.

[Dave]

And they musn't have ever seen this monkey!

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9773/360monkeyxx1.gif





[quadpostftw]

[Skilzat85X]

Actually...the best trickers can double cork, double btwist, double everything, do about every flip and every twist ever as well.

If they only kicked without any twists and whatnot, they'd be crap. haha

[Dave]

Someone help me with my backflipping problem :(

[Dragonic MiKe]

Actually...the best trickers can double cork, double btwist, double everything, do about every flip and every twist ever as well.

If they only kicked without any twists and whatnot, they'd be crap. haha

I dunno. There are enough kicks variations out there that someone could be considered one of the best tricksters by solely comboing insane kicks. It's just very unlikely that someone who can combo into 1260 would have never tried any non-kicking tricks.

I think I'm just too weak to backsault.

What about the little gymnastics girls?

Can you explain them away with your LIES!? :ogre:

[Skilzat85X]

I dunno. There are enough kicks variations out there that someone could be considered one of the best tricksters by solely comboing insane kicks. It's just very unlikely that someone who can combo into 1260 would have never tried any non-kicking tricks.

Even with these high level kicking variations, it doesn't matter how well they can kick haha. A 1260 has little to do with your ability to kick, it has to do with your ability to spin vertically 3 times in the air, and winding up in a position where you actually will be able to kick.

[Dragonic MiKe]

Even with these high level kicking variations, it doesn't matter how well they can kick haha. A 1260 has little to do with your ability to kick, it has to do with your ability to spin vertically 3 times in the air, and winding up in a position where you actually will be able to kick.

Which is sort of my point, in a way...

Basically if you are capable of high level kicks then you're capable of pretty much everything else (which is why people who can 1260 but can't corkscrew don't exist).

[Dave]

What about the little gymnastics girls?

Can you explain them away with your LIES!? :ogre:

Core body strength/power. they do do gymnastics you know, relative to their weights/sizes they are quite strong. But they still don't really have "good" backsaults

[glide2]

kicks = win.
not throwing kicks = fail.




kicks = a part of freestyle acrobatics just like flips and twists
TKD_Andy = fail

[dpitlock]

*watches samplers with spins and flips*
"thats not tricking theres no kicks"

*watches sampler with kicks and flips*
"thats not tricking theres no spins"

*watches sampler with kicks and spins*
"thats not tricking theres no flips"

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Augenatic]

kicks = a part of freestyle acrobatics just like flips and twists
TKD_Andy = fail

Martial Arts Tricks = Kicks
You = Gay

[Dragonic MiKe]

Core body strength/power. they do do gymnastics you know, relative to their weights/sizes they are quite strong. But they still don't really have "good" backsaults

Power to weight ratio blah blah blah.

The point is: Strength isn't your problem (unless you have some sort of illness).

[glide2]

Martial Arts Tricks = Kicks
You = Gay

hey, careful there, you might hurt my feelings

[Augenatic]

hey, careful there, you might hurt my feelings

im sorry

[Kitosho]

I am not a trickster I am just a gymnast who can do hypercorks

[tracekillz]

i look at it like this....*edited to get to the point*

who the fuck cares what you call it.
its cool and i love doing it. and thats all there is to it.

[Swartz]

2 reasons to trick but not call yourself a trickster:

1) The name is gay.

2) You don't have to follow any "rules" about what you can/can't do.

Fuck the label.

[dpitlock]

Swartz I label you as pizza boy!

[Swartz]

Okay.

[Kyle McLean]

I <3 teh kicks
and twists and flips

I <3 tricks

[TKD_Andy]

Actually...the best trickers can double cork, double btwist, double everything, do about every flip and every twist ever as well.

If they only kicked without any twists and whatnot, they'd be crap. haha

im not suggesting that tricking is a kicks only practise, however i personally feel that it should be about a 80/20 mix between kicks and flips.

however i dont think you took my original point in the correct context:

all the best trickers are kickers in the fact that they all have super clean kicks, and show that they have variety, power and good technique in their kicks. Anis, Juji, Grant, prodigy, they all show that they can do double this or hyper that, but they've all shown that they are adept at kicks and that it plays a very, very important role in what we know and love.

[Kalvin]

im not suggesting that tricking is a kicks only practise, however i personally feel that it should be about a 80/20 mix between kicks and flips.

however i dont think you took my original point in the correct context:

all the best trickers are kickers in the fact that they all have super clean kicks, and show that they have variety, power and good technique in their kicks. Anis, Juji, Grant, prodigy, they all show that they can do double this or hyper that, but they've all shown that they are adept at kicks and that it plays a very, very important role in what we know and love.

that was deep

[lazy]

All trickers should focus on executing nice kicks, flips and twist.

It's okey to like one "branch" better than the other two, but you need to be good at everything sooner or later to really become a superb tricker.

Kicks, flips and twists. They all have to be executed in line of the standards they originate from. Now stop being dumbasses and focus on becoming skilled trickers, not gay nerds lol.

[Flowers]

What all has juji doubled?

[dpitlock]

btwist

[Swartz]

Amount of skin shown each consecutive sampler.

[Deezy(LoOpk!cks)]

the type of tricking we practice is stemmed from martial arts i think we can all agree.

and for someone to say tricking should be kicks kicks kicks is totally wrong. kicks is only the offensive side of martial arts.

kung fu peoples used twisting techniques to evade and set themselves for better position to counter attack.

ninjas used flips to get up n over walls n roofs so they could assissinate a nigga lol

kicks, flips, twists all served purposes back then, and they all have value in our practice now. its the trickers who are most well rounded who'll excell the most

[Skilzat85X]

We'll never know what Juji has because he never releases his whole arsenal in one sampler. :ogre:

[Dave]

Power to weight ratio blah blah blah.

The point is: Strength isn't your problem (unless you have some sort of illness).

How can you say that if yo haven't seen me trick, etc.
And if strength isn't my problem, what is?

[Flowers]

Is there footage of juji doubling anything?

[glide2]

Is there footage of juji doubling anything?

He does a 720 double and double btwist in thousand.

[Daniel Graham]

Well this topic has come up way to much on this forum haha but my opinion is tricks are just gay flips with out kicks...kicks are what make tricking special and different.

But idk I guess if you want to just do flips and call yourself a tricker then w/e.....although these people will only be able to learn a little bit of tricks since so much of tricking requires good basic kicks. Especially if you want to have any kind of good clean style.

agreed

if you just flip your a gymnast

kicking incoporated with flips is wut makes tricking tricking

flipping is easier for ppl thats why they do it kicking is not as easy bc it has to be clean

thats why wen ppl ask me for advice for tricking i always tell them get your basics dont try 2 rush it bc then you look sloppy

if you are only doing flips you could still get a lot of respect but flippers who kick get more respect

look at steve terada, emig, haime 2

for me an all around tricker is someone who is powerful, flip, and kicks, and more thats why tricking is a hard ass sport

you dont want to be the guy ppl say oh hes good at ______ but he cant _____

[Skilzat85X]

I agree mostly but I don't think it's at all right to call someone who only does flips a gymnast.

Other than the fact that gymnastics incorporates muuch more than tumbling...

For example you mentioned how it's harder to get kicks clean. Well, the same goes for flips. The greater majority of people on these forums can't tumble cleanly worth their life. Flips are easy to DO, kicks are not easy to DO. If you can DO a kick, then it's not so easy to get it clean. But if you can DO a flip, it is also not easy to get clean, for many people it can even be harder since you can't just practice your basic kicks like you can with kicks, with flips you can only practice the entire motion or nothing.

But yea, many people have weak "flips" anyways haha.

See I can heavily respect the opinions of people like Chris D and Danny G. They both think kicking is very important, but they're respectful to everyone who disagrees, and they don't walk around going "omg if you don't kick ur such a terrible person lolz" etc etc. :smile: I wish more of the pros posted here.
Cause that's one thing I notice, lot's of the people who talk crap about how everyone who doesn't kick much is a total failure aren't really even good at kicks themselves, or they're plain bad at them. Not that that's inherently bad, but it is when they try to pressure other people into conforming to their mentality.

[Daniel Graham]

I agree mostly but I don't think it's at all right to call someone who only does flips a gymnast.

Other than the fact that gymnastics incorporates muuch more than tumbling...

For example you mentioned how it's harder to get kicks clean. Well, the same goes for flips. The greater majority of people on these forums can't tumble cleanly worth their life. Flips are easy to DO, kicks are not easy to DO. If you can DO a kick, then it's not so easy to get it clean. But if you can DO a flip, it is also not easy to get clean, for many people it can even be harder since you can't just practice your basic kicks like you can with kicks, with flips you can only practice the entire motion or nothing.

But yea, many people have weak "flips" anyways haha.

See I can heavily respect the opinions of people like Chris D and Danny G. They both think kicking is very important, but they're respectful to everyone who disagrees, and they don't walk around going "omg if you don't kick ur such a terrible person lolz" etc etc. :smile: I wish more of the pros posted here.
Cause that's one thing I notice, lot's of the people who talk crap about how everyone who doesn't kick much is a total failure aren't really even good at kicks themselves, or they're plain bad at them. Not that that's inherently bad, but it is when they try to pressure other people into conforming to their mentality.

i agree point i wuz making is to be a good tricker for me is you have to be all around and i wouldnt consider a person who do only flips to be as highly respected as someone who can kick and flip and tumble but that just my opinion

[dpitlock]

If you just kick your a martial artist then.

You must have all 3.

[Skilzat85X]

i agree point i wuz making is to be a good tricker for me is you have to be all around and i wouldnt consider a person who do only flips to be as highly respected as someone who can kick and flip and tumble but that just my opinion

I agree.

[dpitlock]

kickstutorials.com

[Daniel Graham]

If you just kick your a martial artist then.

You must have all 3.

yup thats my point
only flips = flipper/gymnast/wutever you want 2 call it
only kicks = kicker/MA.wutever you want 2 call it
only tumbling = tumbler/cheerleader/flipper/wutever you want call it

flips + kicks + tumbling/twists = tricker
flips + kicks + tumbling + power + twists + flexibility + style + combos + singles + basics = speed = all around tricker (for me)

[Skilzat85X]

flips + kicks + tumbling + power + twists + flexibility + style + combos + singles + basics = speed = all around tricker (for me)
Not to mention they have to be good with kids.




:punched:

[Kitosho]

I think that a lot of tricksters feel a sense of hostility towards gymnastics as a whole because gymnastics is a well-founded sport with very specific rules and competition standards, and thousands of people train directly towards competition.

In MAT, however, there is no competition standards because it is generally looked upon as a freely modifiable art form with extremely loose definitions. The more tricksters as a community shy away from individuality and more towards specifics, like "these certain moves are tricks and they should be done this certain way," the more regimented and strict our art becomes. Then it's not an art anymore, it's a sport.

Here's another way to look at it: Take two different athletes. One has spent a decade of consistent practice working nothing but flips, and one has spent a decade of consistent practice working kicks and flips. By most tricksters' standards, the latter is much more "trickster" than the first, but why? They have both put in equally significant amounts of time honing their skill and likely developing their own flairs and leanings. IMO, they are both tricksters, or rather, both people participating in an activity really much more aptly named, "acrobatics."

My 2 cents.

[Daniel Graham]

i agree i dont have hostility 2 gymnastic

i dont like it wen someone say a trick has to be done a certain way to a "t"

there is a correct set up or a norm on how 2 execute but after the execution the flow of trick can be modified to someone style like i love kyle mcclean, gdong, luu, psycho mike they have crazy style

tutorials ppl put put should be more of a guideline not a rule

style is critical, like me i did lazii boi jacknife, i set up like a lazii boi but put my own flavor

its good 2 do the basic correctly bc its easier 2 do your own style

flow

like skaters they have a proper way to set up for an ollie, but tony hawk ollie dont look like other skaterz ollies

like rocket boii its there is no proper way for the trick but there is a proper way to set up and execute and after execution (or in the air) then you could do rocket boi twist like mcclean

no9t everybody got 2 do it like mcclean, you could cross your leg over your left straight leg and grab it

wutever you want do. tricking is developing so high now there are a million ways to do it, thats y it will alaways be a art

i dont believe in rules

i dunno if you understand wut im trying to say

[Skilzat85X]

I totally agree. That's why usually when I make tutorials I try to be like "do this however you want" or "try out these different things and see what's best for you." Obviously there are some things that need to be done right, technical things, but other than that I'm not a stickler for everything having to look the same.

Like Chris D's Jacknife vs Anis vs Scalco. I think they're all wonderful, yet they're all different. Much love.

[dpitlock]

Everyones jacknife should be like Deezy

[J-Slide]

scalcos ftw

[Skilzat85X]

Now that I think about it, I prefer Robert DeNiro's.

http://www.impawards.com/1989/posters/jacknife_ver2.jpg

[Nathan.P.]

Wow this thread actually turned out good haha The first one of its kind that I have read and agreed with most of the posts.

but maybe its cause a lot of the people who are posting have been in the game for a while

[Kitosho]

Put a shirt on, Danny.

[Daniel Graham]

no..

[Kyle McLean]

no9t everybody got 2 do it like mcclean, you could cross your leg over your left straight leg and grab it




jacking that trick

[Daniel Graham]

LOL.

[Ambitrixterous]

there is a correct set up or a norm on how 2 execute but after the execution the flow of trick can be modified to someone style like i love kyle mcclean, gdong, luu, psycho mike they have crazy style

Yes I agree absolutely to this. I always bitch about terminology & execution of what makes this move different from this one, but what my guys hear me bitching about more is that once you have learned your movements correctly, you need individuality to be your own tricker!

Individuality in tricking really only comes from 2 places:
1. Creatively organized/ original combinations
2. STYLE!

Unless you're one of the lucky few to really invent a whole new move, your best bet is going to be the particular flavor of your own tricks & combos.


...& since the main topic of this post seems to have shifted somewhat, I'll add in my opinion that I personally will not use the words "good tricker" unless they are well-rounded in all aspects of tricking.

[Kyle McLean]

I agree with dan. If you think that your gonna be hot shit for inventing a new move good luck, its normally an accident that a new move comes along. And normally its just a new variation.

Be creative with your combos and tricks, add your own style to everything you do. Don't try to trick like someone, just learn from them.

My two cents

[J-kob]

agreed on at least all 10 posts before me. it's really delightful to hear so many ppl (and so many top tricksters) are more open to this thing, since usually when similar threads appeared everyone was like "kicks, kicks, kicks".

As I said before, it's all just personal preference, BUT ONLY until the point of when you really want to become a good trickster. Then, EVERYTHING comes into consideration, flips&twists and kicks, and NOT in 80/20 ratio as Andy said (I totally disagree with this), but in 33%, 33% and 33% percent ratio. You have to be good in all three kind of tricks, besides having the ability to combo them good, execute them well. And as you all said above, style and creativity plays a big role too here :wink:

So what I want to say basically is, people just do what you prefer, whether it is kicks, flips or twist as long as it makes you happy. And sooner or later when you will improve, you yourself will want to develop your skills in other 2 kinds of tricks. Everything comes with time :wink:

[TKD_Andy]

As I said before, it's all just personal preference, BUT ONLY until the point of when you really want to become a good trickster.

the only issue with that is, that the perception of the word 'good' is subjective.

Then, EVERYTHING comes into consideration, flips&twists and kicks, and NOT in 80/20 ratio as Andy said (I totally disagree with this), but in 33%, 33% and 33% percent ratio. You have to be good in all three kind of tricks, besides having the ability to combo them good, execute them well. And as you all said above, style and creativity plays a big role too here :wink::

urgh. What is it with people taking what i say out of context in this thread?

I said that my personal belief is that it should be a 80/20 mix of kicks to flips/twists. This ISNT saying for every 2 twists you have to throw 8 kicks, becuase thats just not right. The emphasis should be 80/20 on kicks, so that you are making it abundantly clear that you are doing something that originated from martial arts. Look at people like teddy. Sure, the guy can cork like theres no tomorrow, but have you seen his scoot-hyper9?? Now THAT was good. Although he shows a lot of twisting and flipping techniques, the kicks that he shows make it clear that he is proficient in them and can throw them with ease, power and without hesitation.

Also i find nowadays that it is really only the creative stuff that excites me about tricking. I mean watching samplers like the Jiayo bilang samp, ott/teddys samp etc blew my mind, but its the teeny bits in those videos like ott doing a lil bboy combo in the middle of a scoot/sweep (cant remember the exact combo) that really got me interested, because it was totally unexpected and shows that he's not just going through the motions of 'ok ill do a doublecork so all the n00bs can kiss my ass' etc.

creativity breathes life to the old rhetoric of pre-defined moves to be ticked off one by one. This is why i'm not a fan of the sessh sig thing, i mean who's to say you cant do a combo of 'class A' tricks and put them together in a way that will impress people beyond words, or that you cant perform those basic techniques in a way in which will make "much better" (people who have ticked off more) sit up and think 'holy crap... ive gotta practise my basics!'

anyway, ive gone off on a massive ramble. I hope you enjoyed it.

[Dragonic MiKe]

A combo using all the class A moves is actually a really cool idea.

It could be like a competition to see who can put them together in the sickest way.

Maybe.

[TKD_Andy]

A combo using all the class A moves is actually a really cool idea.

It could be like a competition to see who can put them together in the sickest way.

Maybe.

im in!

[jan]

I can't tumble because my wrists can't handle heavy impact stuff, and I'd rather preserve my wrists for my guitaring.

Lawlz.

[dpitlock]

Heres my nickel.

[milan]

You need kicks, without them you'll just look like a typical gay gymnast. Kicks look awsome in combination with flips.

[glide2]

I said that my personal belief is that it should be a 80/20 mix of kicks to flips/twists. This ISNT saying for every 2 twists you have to throw 8 kicks, becuase thats just not right. The emphasis should be 80/20 on kicks, so that you are making it abundantly clear that you are doing something that originated from martial arts. Look at people like teddy. Sure, the guy can cork like theres no tomorrow, but have you seen his scoot-hyper9?? Now THAT was good. Although he shows a lot of twisting and flipping techniques, the kicks that he shows make it clear that he is proficient in them and can throw them with ease, power and without hesitation.



Shut up. You're way off with you 80/20. Who gives a shit about ratios, there's no established set of rules in tricking, there's no "you must have at least 60% kicks in your arsenal to be considered a trickster", fuck this shit. It doesn't matter if your style is 60% flips or 80% kicks, I won't have more respect for someone who does mostly kicks than for someone who does mostly flips. Focusing on kicks doesn't make you a better acrobat than someone focusing on tumbling, it only makes you a different acrobat.

[jan]

UNLESS you've done gymnastics for 20 years, and you can triple full, double back, double sideflip, 540 and btwist.

[TKD_Andy]

Shut up. You're way off with you 80/20. Who gives a shit about ratios, there's no established set of rules in tricking, there's no "you must have at least 60% kicks in your arsenal to be considered a trickster", fuck this shit. It doesn't matter if your style is 60% flips or 80% kicks, I won't have more respect for someone who does mostly kicks than for someone who does mostly flips. Focusing on kicks doesn't make you a better acrobat than someone focusing on tumbling, it only makes you a different acrobat.

ahahaha, we're not acrobats, we're trickers.

I think you'd better go back to your acrobat forums and post there instead where people might actually care :bad:

[glide2]

ahahaha, we're not acrobats, we're trickers.

I think you'd better go back to your acrobat forums and post there instead where people might actually care :bad:

Pffffffffft hahahahaha are you retarded? Do you even know what tricking is? A freestyle form of acrobatics that includes movements from various martial arts and gymnastics. Even martial arts tricking is acrobatics. Tell me how moves like hyperhook and snapuswipe aren't acrobatics.

Jesus, while you're at it, tell me that Anis isn't an acrobat.

[Pirate!!]

WTF IS TRICKING GUYZZZZZ ??!?!?

[jan]

Pffffffffft hahahahaha are you retarded? Do you even know what tricking is? A freestyle form of acrobatics that includes movements from various martial arts and gymnastics. Even martial arts tricking is acrobatics. Tell me how moves like hyperhook and snapuswipe aren't acrobatics.

Jesus, while you're at it, tell me that Anis isn't an acrobat.

Anis does jacknives and all kinds of kicks, for one.

[chamorro]

IMO, kicks are an important part of tricking though they are not all there is to tricking. A person cannot call them self a trickster unless they do some training with kicks. If a person only flips but does not kick, he is an acrobat, not a trickster. That being said, a trickster is an acrobat because of their acrobatic maneuvers, such as gainers, corks, fulltwists, aerials etc.
However, IMO, I don't think a trickster needs a set ratio of kicks to flips to twists. Tricking should be enjoyable, and some people enjoy kicking more than flipping and vice versa. I think that to call yourself a true trickster, you must be capable of both kicks and flips, but you do not necessarily have to use one as much as the other.
Tricking uses expression and I think one of the best part is the freedom it encompasses. Unlike other sports where there is a set and solid way to do things, tricking seems very fluid. The reason a trickster learns kicks is so they have the ability to throw them when they want to, not because the general community deems them "necesary."

[lazy]

IMO, kicks are an important part of tricking though they are not all there is to tricking. A person cannot call them self a trickster unless they do some training with kicks. If a person only flips but does not kick, he is an acrobat, not a trickster. That being said, a trickster is an acrobat because of their acrobatic maneuvers, such as gainers, corks, fulltwists, aerials etc.
However, IMO, I don't think a trickster needs a set ratio of kicks to flips to twists. Tricking should be enjoyable, and some people enjoy kicking more than flipping and vice versa. I think that to call yourself a true trickster, you must be capable of both kicks and flips, but you do not necessarily have to use one as much as the other.
Tricking uses expression and I think one of the best part is the freedom it encompasses. Unlike other sports where there is a set and solid way to do things, tricking seems very fluid. The reason a trickster learns kicks is so they have the ability to throw them when they want to, not because the general community deems them "necesary."



Wise words :good:

[glide2]

Anis does jacknives and all kinds of kicks, for one.

And he also does triple fulls, double corks and double btwists, which are factually acrobatics, unless you're TKD_andy and invent new definitions to words to make them fit into an idiotic belief system.

Gravity doesn't exist after all, it is obviously God's love that holds us to the ground, and if you accept Him into your heart you'll be able to fly away to a better life.

[jan]

And the fact that Anis does just as many kicks as he does twists, doesn't matter?

Even though I don't really agree with anyone here, I must say you missed the point.

[glide2]

And the fact that Anis does just as many kicks as he does twists, doesn't matter?


No, it just means that his acrobatic style is balanced between kicks, twists and flips. Saying that tricking isn't acrobatics is like saying that the sun doesn't exist.

[Skippy]

Tricking contains acrobatical movements, but being a tricker is not the same as being an acrobat.

Alex Sayhi = acrobat
Anis = tricker

[jan]

Pretty much. You've got street acrobats, circus acrobats, trampoline acrobats...


Then you've got tricksters. We do the exact same things, but we kick too, in addition to the old "flip and twist" that the others do.

It originated from martial arts tricks, it started with martial arts tricks. It IS martial arts tricks. We flip, we twist and we kick.

[glide2]

Tricking contains acrobatical movements, but being a tricker is not the same as being an acrobat.

Alex Sayhi = acrobat
Anis = tricker

Alex Sayhi = acrobat
Anis = acrobat who also happens to kick (and who eats Alex Sayhi for breakfast)

[Kyle McLean]

No, it just means that his acrobatic style is balanced between kicks, twists and flips. Saying that tricking isn't acrobatics is like saying that the sun doesn't exist.

i dont get what your saying at all.

so all trickzters are acrobats? but acrobats dont have to be trickzters, right?

so trickzters are something completly different.

[glide2]

i dont get what your saying at all.

so all trickzters are acrobats? but acrobats dont have to be trickzters, right?

so trickzters are something completly different.

What I'm saying is that tricking is acrobatics that incorporate elements from martial arts and gymnastics (among other acrobatic pleasantries). Is this so hard to understand?

[Skilzat85X]

i dont get what your saying at all.

so all trickzters are acrobats? but acrobats dont have to be trickzters, right?

so trickzters are something completly different.

Well the question you just asked doesn't prove that at all.

All apples are fruits, but not all fruits are apples. But an apple is still a fruit.

Just a little logical thingy.

[jan]

I'm pretty sure a LOT of acrobats would get offended if you just randomly called them tricksters.


"Cirque de Soleil eh? PLUS COMME TRICKSTERS!!!!OLOL"


Samplers without kicks are pure drag-fests anyways, hahah.

[Skilzat85X]

Ugggh. Apples and fruits people.

[Kyle McLean]

ugh whatever

tricking is tricking, even if your not kicking, but kicking makes your tricking better.

[Skilzat85X]

ugh whatever

tricking is tricking, even if your not kicking, but kicking makes your tricking better.

YES!

Now the question is, should this thread END before more arguing erupts? It was doing very well for many pages, but now it's crap.

[AsoBit]

Tricking is such nonsense

[jan]

Shut up. You're way off with you 80/20. Who gives a shit about ratios, there's no established set of rules in tricking, there's no "you must have at least 60% kicks in your arsenal to be considered a trickster", fuck this shit. It doesn't matter if your style is 60% flips or 80% kicks, I won't have more respect for someone who does mostly kicks than for someone who does mostly flips. Focusing on kicks doesn't make you a better acrobat than someone focusing on tumbling, it only makes you a different acrobat.

What I'm thinking about is the last line here. Focusing on kicks (but still doing a bigass amount of twists and flips) is what makes you a trickster. Focus on flips, and you're a gymnastics-acrobat. Focus on twists (which would mean flips as well, considering pure vertical spinning would be stupid) is also mainly gymnast-rooted.

So it seems as if you're just a gymnastics-type acrobat, instead of a kicking trickster.

[Skippy]

Alex Sayhi = acrobat
Anis = acrobat who also happens to kick (and who eats Alex Sayhi for breakfast)

Alex Sayhi = kicker who only does 540 kicks but who does large about of acrobatical movements.

OH SHIT DAWG ALEX IS A KICKER.

[Skilzat85X]

If you focus on flips but still kick, or vice a versa, what the heck does it matter? It's not about one's massively homo "focus" haha, it's about what you're actually doing. You can't know every kick ever then do some flips and be like "omg im a gymnast cause now im focusing on kicks". Whatever who cares.

I don't know why people think carrying the label "trickster" puts them above a gymnast or a martial artist or anyone else.

[jan]

I never said it makes shit difference. I'm just saying the term trickster comes from martial arts tricks, which is exactly where it comes from. www.bilang.com, furious kiwi, loopkicks, neokarate and all the other sites: All martial arts tricks.

That's why being a trickster is about being able to kick. The term derives from martial arts tricks.

Hell, you're still an acrobat nonetheless, I don't give a shit.


... and now I'm off to sleep. 4 am, go!

[Skilzat85X]

SEMANTICS BATTLE!

[jan]

What else can one use the internet for, if not useless, random bullshitting back and forth?

[glide2]

What I'm thinking about is the last line here. Focusing on kicks (but still doing a bigass amount of twists and flips) is what makes you a trickster. Focus on flips, and you're a gymnastics-acrobat. Focus on twists (which would mean flips as well, considering pure vertical spinning would be stupid) is also mainly gymnast-rooted.

So it seems as if you're just a gymnastics-type acrobat, instead of a kicking trickster.

Wrong, several twisting tricks don't originate from gymnastics. Btwist, cheat 720 twist, cork, and the many possible variations don't come from gymnastics.

[Skilzat85X]

You're the best...
AROUND!

[Dave]

I would like it if you didn't need to flip to be a good tricker, but in my eyes you do, which sucks :sad:

[Skilzat85X]

Oh puhleez how hard is it to flip. There's like 4.

[AsoBit]

Flips are for lazy people

[WilliamT]

I'm horribly lazy and i can only do like 1 flip, haha.

[Dave]

Oh puhleez how hard is it to flip. There's like 4.

4 basics maybe.. I can ro back and webster, is that enough :agony: And it's pretty hard for me actually :eh:

[kinetic]

Yeah haha.
EDIT: Holy shit, so many posts happened just now... I was agreeing w/ skilz.

[sesshoumaru]

Acrobatic [ˌa-krə-ˈba-tik] - 1) vigorously active, 2) acrobatics: from the greek word akros - is one of the performing arts that is also practiced as a sport, and involves difficult feats of balance, agility, and coordination, 3) the state of accomplishing a feat of intellectual or artistic dexterity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sure we can all agree that an acrobat is simply a person who is acrobatic...and though tricking is comprised of many acrobatic manuevers, it would take a hasty generalization to consider a tricker as an acrobat.

It's been said time and time again, that MAT is predominately about self expression [performance art, just like acrobatics]. It is comprised of many "artifi" [clever or artfull skills - a strategem, just like acrobatics]. The only difference [and the major difference] is that MAT focuses on "martial execution", and the aspects thereof.

Well how important is that?
It's called "context" [the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs], and it's very important. A practicioner of MAT [a tricker] should portray the guise of a martial artist...and a martial artist is one who practices martial arts, which is the art of war [military arts]. An acrobat portrays nothing, and usually follows a routine that is to be judged on a system based off of physical efficiency.

Tricker _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Acrobat
- artform has violent & applicable uses _ _ _--__- artform is non-violent
- freeform _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _--- controlled
- execution based off tradition & destruction _ _-- execution based off of efficiency

Q: Is a tricker an acrobat?
A: Not really, they possess many acrobatic qualities...but are not "true" acrobats.


:: Please do not quote the entire post please ::

[Skilzat85X]

Oh well guess I'm not a tricker haha. I don't take martial arts.

And to be honest I think the majority of people here aren't trickers either. Even some who are kicking purists, because like it or not their kicks won't be destroying anything...lol. If ya get what I'm saaaayin.

[kickjim]

I learn so much from your posts Sessh ....

[Dave]

I think he means "they have the ability to be destroying things" and applicable, whilst obviously acrobatics doesn't possess that. The reasoning is that the movements were derived from artforms which were for practical use.

[Skilzat85X]

If I do an Aerial and my foot hits someone in the face, be assured that they're going down.

And what I said still applies: many people, self proclaimed kicking trickers, can't destroy things with their "kicks."

[chamorro]

I'm sure we can all agree that an acrobat is simply a person who is acrobatic...and though tricking is comprised of many acrobatic manuevers, it would take a hasty generalization to consider a tricker as an acrobat.
Well how important is that?

Tricker _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Acrobat
- artform has violent & applicable uses _ _ _--__- artform is non-violent
- freeform _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _--- controlled
- execution based off tradition & destruction _ _-- execution based off of efficiency

Q: Is a tricker an acrobat?
A: Not really, they possess many acrobatic qualities...but are not "true" acrobats.

But an acrobat seems to describe anyone capable of performing acrobats. This would mean freerunners are acrobats, gymnasts are acrobats, and trapeze artists are acrobats? So why can't tricksters be considered acrobats as well?
I'm going to try and use the food example shown earlier to show my train of thought.
An apple is a fruit. A fruit is food. An apple is food. An apple tastes sweet.
The above statements are true. Now, the above statements are false.
All fruits are sweet. (tomatoes are not sweet, but they are a fruit because they have seeds) All foods are fruits. All fruits are apples.
Now lets try and define tricksters.
Tricksters are martial artists. Tricksters are acrobats.
The below statement is false.
Acrobats are martial artists. Martial artists are acrobats.
My thought is that a trickster can be called an acrobat because they perform acrobatics. Tricking has the artform non violent parts of acrobatics. Back hand springs, for instance, are non-violent and a part of tricking. Also, aerials can be used for tricking, and many aerials do not kick. Because tricksters encompass acrobatic manuevers into their tricks/combos, one can henceforth call them acrobats.


I'm sure we can all agree that an acrobat is simply a person who is acrobatic...and though tricking is comprised of many acrobatic manuevers, it would take a hasty generalization to consider a tricker as an acrobat.
It is this part of your description that I am basing my classification of tricksters as acrobatic. Tricksters are capable of acrobatic manuevers, thus, they are acrobats.

[kickjim]

Oh well guess I'm not a tricker haha. I don't take martial arts.

And to be honest I think the majority of people here aren't trickers either. Even some who are kicking purists, because like it or not their kicks won't be destroying anything...lol. If ya get what I'm saaaayin.

Destroying anything ?
I think it's the philsophy of martial arts that designates it from other artforms, like gymnastics/acrobatics.

[Dave]

If I do an Aerial and my foot hits someone in the face, be assured that they're going down.

And what I said still applies: many people, self proclaimed kicking trickers, can't destroy things with their "kicks."

This is true, but it seems like a straw-man for your argument [unless you never were making an argument, just making that statement in general].

[Skilzat85X]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T0bPQvLs1E

Daaang look at those kicks, that's one violent looking move if you ask me.

[Dave]

Lol this is going nowhere

[Skilzat85X]

What? I don't know about you guys but that chick is sure kick-kick-KICKIN. Her violent disposition has clearly suited her to be a tricker. Imagine if you got hit in the face with one of those kicks? Can you say ouch? They'd have to make that like, PG-13, due to violence.

[glide2]

And even if you have powerful martial arts tricks, they have absolutely no use and purpose in combat. You're not gonna use a cheat 720 to kick someone in the face. You could, but hey, I could backflip and land on someone's head too, does it mean that a backflip has a practical use in combat? Face it, MAT hasn't any practical uses, it has the same purpose as any form of acrobatics: perform aesthetically pleasing aerial movements.

[Skilzat85X]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkQhs2BrI5M

[Pirate!!]

PEfcNfEORjA

[sesshoumaru]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T0bPQvLs1E

Daaang look at those kicks, that's one violent looking move if you ask me.

Exactly :good:

[Skilzat85X]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6cyDsuNx_U

[flexibility]

What else can one use the internet for, if not useless, random bullshitting back and forth?
To download adult content. But that's about it.

[cepopeye]

"IF YOU DON'T THROW KICKS UR NOT A TRICKSTER"

i hate that. ftw

But... if we don't say that then those Brazilians own the fuck out of us all even more

[jan]

Wrong, several twisting tricks don't originate from gymnastics. Btwist, cheat 720 twist, cork, and the many possible variations don't come from gymnastics.

Actually, the btwist and double btwist are moves you can do, as well as corks. Ever seen gymnasts do corks to sidesplits?

[jan]

Acrobatic [ˌa-krə-ˈba-tik] - 1) vigorously active, 2) acrobatics: from the greek word akros - is one of the performing arts that is also practiced as a sport, and involves difficult feats of balance, agility, and coordination, 3) the state of accomplishing a feat of intellectual or artistic dexterity.
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I'm sure we can all agree that an acrobat is simply a person who is acrobatic...and though tricking is comprised of many acrobatic manuevers, it would take a hasty generalization to consider a tricker as an acrobat.

It's been said time and time again, that MAT is predominately about self expression [performance art, just like acrobatics]. It is comprised of many "artifi" [clever or artfull skills - a strategem, just like acrobatics]. The only difference [and the major difference] is that MAT focuses on "martial execution", and the aspects thereof.

Well how important is that?
It's called "context" [the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs], and it's very important. A practicioner of MAT [a tricker] should portray the guise of a martial artist...and a martial artist is one who practices martial arts, which is the art of war [military arts]. An acrobat portrays nothing, and usually follows a routine that is to be judged on a system based off of physical efficiency.

Tricker _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Acrobat
- artform has violent & applicable uses _ _ _--__- artform is non-violent
- freeform _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _--- controlled
- execution based off tradition & destruction _ _-- execution based off of efficiency

Q: Is a tricker an acrobat?
A: Not really, they possess many acrobatic qualities...but are not "true" acrobats.


:: Please do not quote the entire post please ::

This is exactly what I was saying, except with nicer words. It's funny how some people agree with one person and not the other, hahah. Oh well.

I still consider tricksters to be acrobats, except we're martial arts oriented acrobats: Tricksters/Trickers. If we weren't martial arts oriented, we'd just be regular acrobats.

[jan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6cyDsuNx_U

OMGAD U STOLE MAH DREDD!

[TKD_Andy]

i think glide needs to be banned.

[jan]

NEVA STEEL MA DREDD!

[Rahf]

An acrobat is some random jock in tight spandex who is more often than not suspended from the ceiling in what is called a trapeze. They also do some fancy wire-work and whatnot.

A gymnast is a random jock who spends most of his time on the ground, performing various awesome moves that defy gravity to some extent.

A tricker is usually a random skinny and bitchy jock who spends most of his time on the internet. There, he is trying to figure out just what defines what in terms of moves, names and degrees. When not doing this he spends most of his time on the ground performing a type of martial arts inspired gymnastics.

That's my definition :trophy::banana::bomb::tongue:

[jan]

UND ICH LIFT WEIGHTS:D

[Skilzat85X]

But... if we don't say that then those Brazilians own the fuck out of us all even more

Good lord those Brazilians aren't even tricking, they don't even proclaim themselves to be trickers. They're just Capoeiristas who focus on the acrobatic moves of Capoeira, hence why all the videos coming from them are entitled "Capoeira Acrobaticas" or some crap haha. Or "Capoeira tricks", even if it says "tricks" in the title doesn't mean it's a reference to "tricking", a ton of sports have "tricks" that you can do within that sport.

[jan]

Most tricksters have a great tendency to say "LOOK AT THIS GREAT TRICKSTER" and link to some Capoeira dude though, lawlz.

[mogwai]

A tricker is usually a random skinny and bitchy jock who spends most of his time on the internet. There, he is trying to figure out just what defines what in terms of moves, names and degrees.


hmm.. no thats just you:tongue:

[tuareg]

Argh i hate it that i miss out on everything. I'm not going to read through 18 pages haha :agony:

I've got an urge of doing so, wich i also hate.

[alpha7158]

This thread sucks.

How about you don't tell people how they should want to trick/whatever.

edit: I have only read the 1st post

[jan]

hmm.. no thats just you:tongue:

Rahf is quite the opposite, hahahah:D

[tuareg]

Does he have any new pics? I saw some from a year or so ago so he's probably a beast by now haha.

[jamesp]

I think the notion that you can be a tricker but never practice any kicks is ludicrous, i personally feel kicks are about 50% of tricking and twisting and flipping fill up about 25% each, i don't care what anyone else who disagrees with me says

[glide2]

i think glide needs to be banned.

i think TKD_andy is a douche bag.

[Skilzat85X]

i don't care what anyone else who disagrees with me says

Aka, "my opinion is the only one that matters" haha.


This topic is going in circles. Bye bye!

[jan]

I think glide is going to have difficulties posting:D