Diet.

[compleks]

I have decided, for various reasons, that I will fast for 2 days of each week (saturday and monday).
This is not a long term plan, but more of an experiment.

I would not recommend this to anyone else.

This thread doesn't really have any purpose, I'm just bored.

It's 4:00pm on my first day of fasting. Things are going well so far. I'm hungry, but as long as I keep busy it doesn't bother me.

[VerdinxJon]

what if I were to fast what would it be like?

[Swartz]

what if I were to fast what would it be like?
You'd be hungry.

[Anonymous]

You'd be hungry.

*standing ovation*

[Tossman]

salrite! we're designed for fasting!!!!

will be interested to see what u find though

[Rahf]

I have decided, for various reasons, that I will fast for 2 days of each week (saturday and monday).
This is not a long term plan, but more of an experiment.

I would not recommend this to anyone else.

This thread doesn't really have any purpose, I'm just bored.

It's 4:00pm on my first day of fasting. Things are going well so far. I'm hungry, but as long as I keep busy it doesn't bother me.

What's the reason for this sudden surge in the decision machine?

I also do not recommend fasting, unless it is very short term and perhaps just prior to a weigh-in for a match.

[rock_10]

Compleks, are you not eating anything at all on those days, meaning about a 32-hour fast, or are you eating nothing until the evening, meaning about 24 hours?

[AdamSwaluk]

Damnit Rock 10

[rock_10]

What?

[AndyD11]

you are still here....
also lol i fasted for 4 days before. after the third it becomes just like the first again

[Lees Dragon]

Don't forget, It must be a mental fast as well as a physical fast! :tongue:

[Andario]

Definitely. Erase those satanist animal tendencies and create a clear mind.

[compleks]

What's the reason for this sudden surge in the decision machine?

I also do not recommend fasting, unless it is very short term and perhaps just prior to a weigh-in for a match.
The main reasons are experimentation and weight loss. I do occasionally need to fast prior to a weigh in, and I find this to be good practice.

I also have a hard time cutting weight. But I know if I plan to fast for the day then I will not cheat. I find I can stick to a diet that is strictly outlined, however I do not like being strict with my meals (I like to cook and experiment with different foods). This tends to lead to a poorly controlled diet (in terms of calories). I also like to 'cheat' on Sundays (I eat alot. I keep it clean though, but the calories are way up there), and a single cheat day for me can do significant damage.

There are others reasons, mostly mental, which I will not go in to. I know it sounds stupid, and if someone else had made this thread I would advise them otherwise.
But this is just a trial.

Compleks, are you not eating anything at all on those days, meaning about a 32-hour fast, or are you eating nothing until the evening, meaning about 24 hours?
I will not be eating anything, making it roughly 32-34 hours without food. I will drink alot of water, and maybe chew some gum or brush my teeth alot (not eating leaves me with bad breath).

[rock_10]

Owned, well let us know how it goes. I've fasted for 24 hours lots of times, that's not a problem, but the one time I went for ~32 hours it ended pretty badly.

[AndyD11]

how :confused:
?

[compleks]

I don't find it very difficult if I have things to keep me busy. Today was easy because I left home at 9 after waking up, and didn't get back until 10.30, so there was no temptation.
I've stayed in my room since getting home, because I know that i will struggle if I venture out into the kitchen.

Time for bed now.

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

I have decided, for various reasons, that I will fast for 2 days of each week (saturday and monday).
This is not a long term plan, but more of an experiment.

I would not recommend this to anyone else.

This thread doesn't really have any purpose, I'm just bored.

It's 4:00pm on my first day of fasting. Things are going well so far. I'm hungry, but as long as I keep busy it doesn't bother me.
Good luck!

[[RozoN]]

Are you going to keep the same level of physical activity as you usually have on those days? Basically are you going to lift/bike/run etc...? Because that would be suicide :tongue:...

[Rahf]

Physical activity should definitely not be done on fasting days, it'd leave you in a downwards spiral for sure.

Compleks: Have you tried intermittent fasting? I've heard both pros and cons about it but I reckon it could work well for someone that wants to eat bigger meals with more room for variety. In any case I think it is definitely a better idea to find a viable option other than fasting, it just doesn't hold out in the long run seeing as you get a negative protein balance along with the catabolism of fat. Not to mention that you'll probably end up with extremely low energy levels.

[rock_10]

^ I think the concern of losing muscle during a fast of this length is overblown somewhat. Especially for losers like us who don't have an unusually large amount of muscle. I guess the more muscle you have above your "natural" level, the more readily you'd start to lose it during a fast - you'd probably agree.
In fact I'd say that I wouldn't fear any muscle loss whatsoever during alternate-day fasting. Especially if I was still training.

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Doi=95354 is interesting.

[Counterfeit Soda]

Just an observation. It really shows how people in modern civilizations are such complete pussies that they find it hard at all to fast for a single day.

Not singling you out, just saying in general.

[Ernest]

Possibly in modern civilization we shouldn't be fasting at all.

[Ashtar]

Who's to say we should or shouldn't?

[Anonymous]

The man in the clouds.

[Ernest]

You can if you want. It just seems ridiculous that you deprive yourself of something that you need. I was originally going to pull the "starving children in Africa" line, but i hate that haha.

[Kitosho]

You can if you want. It just seems ridiculous that you deprive yourself of something that you need. I was originally going to pull the "starving children in Africa" line, but i hate that haha.






This is oversimplifying the purpose of fasting. The idea is that we've developed selected genetic traits over long periods of time wherein intermittent fasting would be favorable in terms of our hormonal health.

[alex]

I really am curious to see if anyone ever really figures out the optimal diet including what to eat, when to eat it, how to split it up, etc. or if there ever will be a way to figure something like that out.

[Rahf]

I really am curious to see if anyone ever really figures out the optimal diet including what to eat, when to eat it, how to split it up, etc. or if there ever will be a way to figure something like that out.

I reckon we're all way too unique for there to ever be an optimal way.

[Ernest]

This is oversimplifying the purpose of fasting. The idea is that we've developed selected genetic traits over long periods of time wherein intermittent fasting would be favorable in terms of our hormonal health.

What exactly are these genetic traits, and who are you referring to when you say "our"?

[Lobo]

Homo sapiens and their evolutionary predecessors, obviously

[Ernest]

Then we all can't share identical eating habits.

akfhkfakfqwf

how does it affect hormonal health?

[Counterfeit Soda]

Possibly in modern civilization we shouldn't be fasting at all.

Yeah, I don't really agree with most fasting. I certainly wouldn't for any kind of body composition or health changes.

I have, however, fasted for a day or two days because I was just too lazy to bother getting food.

[compleks]

Good luck!
Thankyou. The first day wasn't too bad.
I did sleep quite heavily during the night, and had dreams of food.

;842012']Are you going to keep the same level of physical activity as you usually have on those days? Basically are you going to lift/bike/run etc...? Because that would be suicide :tongue:...
Physical activity will remain the same. Mondays are quite active, but Saturdays will vary.
I lead a very active lifestyle and train quite hard.

Physical activity should definitely not be done on fasting days, it'd leave you in a downwards spiral for sure.

Compleks: Have you tried intermittent fasting? I've heard both pros and cons about it but I reckon it could work well for someone that wants to eat bigger meals with more room for variety. In any case I think it is definitely a better idea to find a viable option other than fasting, it just doesn't hold out in the long run seeing as you get a negative protein balance along with the catabolism of fat. Not to mention that you'll probably end up with extremely low energy levels.
What I'm doing is a form of intermittent fasting.
Like I said, I don't have plans to maintain this diet for the long term. I have heard both pros and cons for fasting and would like to try it out for myself.
My energy levels have been low over the past few weeks anyway, for various reasons. But I find that is predominantly a mental issue. I can still train hard in a fasted state if I get in the right frame of mind.
Thanks for your concern though.

^ I think the concern of losing muscle during a fast of this length is overblown somewhat. Especially for losers like us who don't have an unusually large amount of muscle. I guess the more muscle you have above your "natural" level, the more readily you'd start to lose it during a fast - you'd probably agree.
In fact I'd say that I wouldn't fear any muscle loss whatsoever during alternate-day fasting. Especially if I was still training.

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Doi=95354 is interesting.
I have lost significant size over the last year, but it's a sacrifice I have accepted. I'm quite heavy for my size which is annoying.

Just an observation. It really shows how people in modern civilizations are such complete pussies that they find it hard at all to fast for a single day.

Not singling you out, just saying in general.
It's more the lifestyle change than anything. The only time I find fasting to be difficult is when I'm at home with nothing to do.

[compleks]

Possibly in modern civilization we shouldn't be fasting at all.
Perhaps.

Who's to say we should or shouldn't?

The man in the clouds.

You can if you want. It just seems ridiculous that you deprive yourself of something that you need. I was originally going to pull the "starving children in Africa" line, but i hate that haha.
My Mum used to fast as part of her religious beliefs. I would constantly tell her off and lecture her on the dangers of fasting etc...
Oh the irony.

This is oversimplifying the purpose of fasting. The idea is that we've developed selected genetic traits over long periods of time wherein intermittent fasting would be favorable in terms of our hormonal health.
This is one argument I find interesting.
From personal experience I have never really been one to 'feel' any benefits/changes of various diets. I always hear about how good people feel on *whatever* diet, but it's never made a noticeable difference to me. Perhaps those people notice a difference because they were so conditioned to eating junk.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see how this goes.

[compleks]

I really am curious to see if anyone ever really figures out the optimal diet including what to eat, when to eat it, how to split it up, etc. or if there ever will be a way to figure something like that out.
I'd have to agree with Rahf here. Everyone is unique, and I think ideal dieting will have to reflect the individual.

I reckon we're all way too unique for there to ever be an optimal way.
Agreed. (Assuming that were talking about optimal in a generalised sense)

What exactly are these genetic traits, and who are you referring to when you say "our"?
Que Lobo with the answer...

Homo sapiens and their evolutionary predecessors, obviously
Thankyou.

Then we all can't share identical eating habits.

akfhkfakfqwf

how does it affect hormonal health?
There was a thread recently about intermittent fasting with some interesting information.

Yeah, I don't really agree with most fasting. I certainly wouldn't for any kind of body composition or health changes.

I have, however, fasted for a day or two days because I was just too lazy to bother getting food.
I don't see any other reason to actively fast (other than religious and mental/spiritual reasons).

Or maybe a hunger strike.

[Rahf]

What I am saying is that since you don't have access to carbohydrates or protein, your body is missing out on alot of essential blocks it needs to produce good performance during exercise (and sustain certain building blocks).

Intermittent fasting in that sense focuses on 16 hours of fast and 8 hours of eating which is a whole lot more practical than +24 hours.

[compleks]

I know this, and would be saying the same things had anyone else made this thread.

[anfeyd]

Early hunter gatherer's had abundant food, moreso than the majority of the population have today.

[rock_10]

What I am saying is that since you don't have access to carbohydrates or protein, your body is missing out on alot of essential blocks it needs to produce good performance during exercise (and sustain certain building blocks).

Intermittent fasting in that sense focuses on 16 hours of fast and 8 hours of eating which is a whole lot more practical than +24 hours.

There'd be plenty of protein and carbs around during a 1-day fast, its not very long at all.
Its also the experience of many IFers that they perform no worse, or even better, while fasted. I'm certainly a good deal stronger if I train about 20 hours since my last meal.

(How strong you feel during a workout obviously isn't the only thing affecting its success, though - so whatever.)

16:8 hour fasting is basically just skipping breakfast. Its only JUST worth calling IF, really.

[Rahf]

There'd be plenty of protein and carbs around during a 1-day fast, its not very long at all.
Its also the experience of many IFers that they perform no worse, or even better, while fasted. I'm certainly a good deal stronger if I train about 20 hours since my last meal.

(How strong you feel during a workout obviously isn't the only thing affecting its success, though - so whatever.)

16:8 hour fasting is basically just skipping breakfast. Its only JUST worth calling IF, really.

Intermittent fasting is 16 hours of fasting and 8 hours of eating, that is why it is called intermittent.

When fasted, you will be lacking amino acids and end up in a negative protein balance if you do anaerobic exercising. That is unless you fill up with nutrients after exercising.

You can fast and perform well if your intake the day before was good since that is the energy you will be using on the coming workout. Having a full stomach does not work for me when exercising, I need to have gone something like 3 hours without food if I want to feel on top.

However, I certainly am a great deal weaker if I have gone 20 hours without a meal, glycogen levels aside but I just can't keep a clear head or focus on the task at hand since my blood glucose levels are basically down at rock bottom.

[rock_10]

Intermittent fasting is 16 hours of fasting and 8 hours of eating, that is why it is called intermittent.

"intermittent" doesn't tell us much about the times involved, and it certainly doesn't only mean 16 hours of fasting. Intermittent Fasting is used to refer to all kinds of, well, intermittent fasting. The LeanGains approach with that 8-hour eating window is only one method, and is really right on the edge of what could realistically be considered IF. People do IF in all kinds of ways, more usually with a shorter eating window. Alternate-day fasting, as Compleks is doing, is another kind of IF.

When fasted, you will be lacking amino acids and end up in a negative protein balance if you do anaerobic exercising. That is unless you fill up with nutrients after exercising.

I imagine there'd be plenty of AAs around from all the usual shit that gets turned over, along with those still being digested and absorbed from the last meal, for much of the fast. Ending up in a negative nitrogen balance during the fast isn't neccessarily a bad thing, anyway, so long as it is made up for by a strongly anabolic period during the overeating.
(And in general you would fill up with nutrients after exercising - most IF schedules seem to break the fast after the workout (or just before).)


However, I certainly am a great deal weaker if I have gone 20 hours without a meal, glycogen levels aside but I just can't keep a clear head or focus on the task at hand since my blood glucose levels are basically down at rock bottom.

While I'm sure you do feel that way, it won't be because your blood glucose is low. I can't find any graphs online but I have one in mind that I'll take a photo of later - even fasting for weeks, blood glucose stays very constant. Its extremely tightly controlled.

[rock_10]

oh and http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=28517 , everyone. Lots of shit in there, but its hard to read if you don't like studies and shit. Fasting invokes all kids of changes in the body, all kinds of shit that never normally happens. I reckon its a very beneficial thing to do fairly ofton. Even Steve Justa thinks so.

[Rahf]

I personally do not endorse fasting longer than 16 hours. That is mainly out of a performance and recovery standpoint. Fasting for more than a day is definitely not something I recommend. You will lose weight sure, but some of that weight is going to be taken from muscle protein (negative balance) if you are fasting through the whole day and that in turn is likely to yield a loss in both performance, everyday energy levels, mood and possibly affect your basal metabolic rate (BMR).

That is my opinion.

[Kitosho]

Intermittent fasting is 16 hours of fasting and 8 hours of eating, that is why it is called intermittent.

When fasted, you will be lacking amino acids and end up in a negative protein balance if you do anaerobic exercising. That is unless you fill up with nutrients after exercising.

Most IF regimes (especially Martin Berkhan's, which seems to be the most valid approach) involve consuming the largest portion of the day's calories immediately after exercising. After consuming food for 8 hours, especially with foods that are slowly digested towards the end, there is little risk of proteolysis, especially due to nutrient partitioning (fasting releases GH, cAMP, more directed nutrients towards development of muscle tissue and more required calories pulled from fatty tissues).

You can fast and perform well if your intake the day before was good since that is the energy you will be using on the coming workout. Having a full stomach does not work for me when exercising, I need to have gone something like 3 hours without food if I want to feel on top.

yes i agree

However, I certainly am a great deal weaker if I have gone 20 hours without a meal, glycogen levels aside but I just can't keep a clear head or focus on the task at hand since my blood glucose levels are basically down at rock bottom.

20 hours is pushing it, the individual fast length would differ 16 or so is more practical basically comes down to skipping breakfast

also Berkhan (who is quickly becoming my favorite IF guy) recommends to break the fast with the PRE workout meal, just a small one of P+C which seems like a decent idea to me, switches the engine from GH to insulin and primes you metabolically for the workout

[Rahf]

Most IF regimes (especially Martin Berkhan's, which seems to be the most valid approach) involve consuming the largest portion of the day's calories immediately after exercising. After consuming food for 8 hours, especially with foods that are slowly digested towards the end, there is little risk of proteolysis, especially due to nutrient partitioning (fasting releases GH, cAMP, more directed nutrients towards development of muscle tissue and more required calories pulled from fatty tissues).

yes i agree

20 hours is pushing it, the individual fast length would differ 16 or so is more practical basically comes down to skipping breakfast

also Berkhan (who is quickly becoming my favorite IF guy) recommends to break the fast with the PRE workout meal, just a small one of P+C which seems like a decent idea to me, switches the engine from GH to insulin and primes you metabolically for the workout

When referring to lack of amino acids, I am talking about longer fasts than the 16/8 since that is how I interpreted Compleks' fast to be.

I have no doubt that IF is a worthwhile diet for some.

[Kitosho]

oh yeah


compleks what is the deal why the diet r u CRA Z


IF is pretty pimp though look at ori hofmekler what a crazy yet awesome guy

[compleks]

Well, I'm going to trial this for at least a few weeks and see how it effects me. I'm pretty sure it will have very little noticeable effect.

I'm considering changing to more of a 'warrior'-esque type diet a few days a week, once my weight is under control.