Creatine

[[RozoN]]

So I've read a little about it, but it's still kinda blurry to me...

Does creatine work as just energy supplement to your muscles during a workout? Does it help with muscle recovery? How important is extra creatine intake (in form of powder/supplements) for...e.g. a bodybuilder? :eh:

[Skippy]

Alls you need to know about creatine is that its plain freakin awesome, and if you take it, make sure you drink plentyyyy of water unless you want neon green piss.

I've just recently ran out of creatine, but for about 2 days I was taking creatine and tribulus before work outs, and oh my god it was a lethal combination. I felt amazing haha. I still have the tribulus, which is amazing, and I need to buy some more creatine =[

[Shadow5217]

My friend wants to start taking it but he doenst really want to work out..... How will that affect him>?

Yeah hes a lazy fuck and EMO.

[[RozoN]]

Alls you need to know about creatine is that its plain freakin awesome, and if you take it, make sure you drink plentyyyy of water unless you want neon green piss.

I've just recently ran out of creatine, but for about 2 days I was taking creatine and terralus before work outs, and oh my god it was a lethal combination. I felt amazing haha. I still have the terralus, which is amazing, and I need to buy some more creatine =[
lol okay man :smile:. What exactly did you feel? Did you feel pumped up/more energy/bigger gain in muscle mass/less soreness/faster recovery?

I heard that it was water retaining, so that may explain the green piss lol :tongue:

[Skippy]

It shouldn't affect him at all really, it just won't do anything haha. But he won't get fat or nothing. If you don't do hard work outs where you're blitzed by the end of them I don't think theres much point in taking creatine.

[Skippy]

;856295']lol okay man :smile:. What exactly did you feel? Did you feel pumped up/more energy/bigger gain in muscle mass/less soreness/faster recovery?

I heard that it was water retaining, so that may explain the green piss lol :tongue:

I definitely felt I had more stamina. In the way that it just took me longer to get tired. Muscle wise it didn't really affect me as far as healing time goes, but I don't think thats an objective of it. It did however give me gains a little bit faster, and allowed me to push on a bit more in my work outs which would explain gaining mass.

If you believe it will make you feel pumped, it will, it didn't really make me feel pumped because I knew it wasn't made to haha.

The tribulus however does make me feel pumped, majorly, and I noticed some weights I struggled with I do now normally in regular sets. It definitely made me feel more confident in myself too and I believe it makes me heal a bit faster haha. Tribulus is definitely worth a buy, it's like a natural testosterone basically, so it makes you that much more man =]

Although when I didn't work out while I was taking it, I noticed I'd get frustrated alot more easily. Like ridiculously more easily.

But on the ups sides of it, my cock which was already a good size became like half an inch bigger since taking it haha.

I sound like an advert here, I just definitely advise tribulus as a great supplement, but its not as cheap as things like creatine.

edit: yes creatine is water retaining haha

[saunders]

i'm doing some research for school lately and i read some scientific publications about creatine. from what i've read i understand that creatine is an energy buffer that keeps the ATP in your cells high. so in other words it gives you an energy boost.
it increases cellular activity in muscle cells and nerve cells.
with an increased cellular activity, cells can be repaired more easily. so yeah i guess it helps with muscle recovery - this is hypothetical btw, i'm not so sure since i don't know much about muscle recovery.

please correct me if i'm wrong about this.

[[RozoN]]

I definitely felt I had more stamina. In the way that it just took me longer to get tired. Muscle wise it didn't really affect me as far as healing time goes, but I don't think thats an objective of it. It did however give me gains a little bit faster, and allowed me to push on a bit more in my work outs which would explain gaining mass.

If you believe it will make you feel pumped, it will, it didn't really make me feel pumped because I knew it wasn't made to haha.

The tribulus however does make me feel pumped, majorly, and I noticed some weights I struggled with I do now normally in regular sets. It definitely made me feel more confident in myself too and I believe it makes me heal a bit faster haha. Tribulus is definitely worth a buy, it's like a natural testosterone basically, so it makes you that much more man =]

Although when I didn't work out while I was taking it, I noticed I'd get frustrated alot more easily. Like ridiculously more easily.

But on the ups sides of it, my cock which was already a good size became like half an inch bigger since taking it haha.

I sound like an advert here, I just definitely advise tribulus as a great supplement, but its not as cheap as things like creatine.

edit: yes creatine is water retaining haha

That sounds awesome rofl. So Creatine = more manliness lol :tongue:.
On a serious note, thanks for the info, Skippy and saunders...much appreciated :good::smile:

[Skippy]

Haha well, the cock that was about tribulus not creatine =P but creatine will give manliness too.

[Rahf]

Tribulus lacks direct or indirect androgenic abilities. Skippy, during this time you have also had natural growth.

The aim of the current study is to investigate the influence of Tribulus terrestris extract on androgen metabolism in young males. DESIGN AND METHODS:: Twenty-one healthy young 20-36 years old men with body weight ranging from 60 to 125kg were randomly separated into three groups-two experimental (each n=7) and a control (placebo) one (n=7). The experimental groups were named TT1 and TT2 and the subjects were assigned to consume 20 and 10mg/kg body weight per day of Tribulus terrestris extract, respectively, separated into three daily intakes for 4 weeks. Testosterone, androstenedione and luteinizing hormone levels in the serum were measured 24h before supplementation (clear probe), and at 24, 72, 240, 408 and 576h from the beginning of the supplementation. RESULTS:: There was no significant difference between Tribulus terrestris supplemented groups and controls in the serum testosterone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 15.75+/-1.75nmol/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 16.32+/-1.57nmol/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 17.74+/-1.09nmol/l) (p>0.05)), androstenedione (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 1.927+/-0.126ng/ml); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 2.026+/-0.256ng/ml); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 1.952+/-0.236ng/ml) (p>0.05)) or luteinizing hormone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.662+/-0.274U/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.103+/-0.869U/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 4.170+/-0.406U/l) (p>0.05)) levels. All results were within the normal range. The findings in the current study anticipate that [u]Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins possess neither direct nor indirect androgen-increasing properties.

J Ethnopharmacol. 2005 Oct 3;101(1-3):319-23. The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men.


Several recent studies have indicated that Tribulus supplementation appears to have no effects on body composition or strength during training.

Sports Nutrition Review Journal. 1 (1):1-44, 2004.

Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 2001 Sep;71(5):293-301. Effects of androstenedione-herbal supplementation on serum sex hormone concentrations in 30- to 59-year-old men.

Int. J. Sport Nutr. Exerc. Metab. 10:208-215. The effects of Tribulus terrestris on body composition and exercise performance in resistance-trained males.

Creatine:

Supplementing creatine leads to increased levels of creatine phosphate (PCr) and free creatine in your muscles (which contain about 95% of the bodys total amount of creatine). PCr is one of the fastest energy sources in the body and is used in all activities that are close to or at maximum power capacity. The deposits of PCr are limited and additions of creatine gives you higher deposits of PCr which in turn gives you a heightened endurance during submaximal performance, such as resistance training.

[[RozoN]]

Creatine:

Supplementing creatine leads to increased levels of creatine phosphate (PCr) and free creatine in your muscles (which contain about 95% of the bodys total amount of creatine). PCr is one of the fastest energy sources in the body and is used in all activities that are close to or at maximum power capacity. The deposits of PCr are limited and additions of creatine gives you higher deposits of PCr which in turn gives you a heightened endurance during submaximal performance, such as resistance training.
So simply put, creatine works as a source of energy which your muscles draw from when needed. But wouldn't carbs have the same effect?:eh: I always thought that carbohydrates were meant as an energy storage in our body. So wouldn't an energy drink (which is rich on carbs), be just as efficient as creatine? :eh:. Would there even be any difference between creatine intake and say just plain carbs intake?

My cellular respiration knowledge is a bit rusty, but the only difference I might think of is that carbohydrates and creatine are two different energy storages. Since creatine "charges" up ATP, and ATP is short term energy storage it would give a quicker energy energy supply to the muscles. While it takes more time to split the glycogen to glucose and further to energy. Am I on the right track here?

Tribulus lacks direct or indirect androgenic abilities. Skippy, during this time you have also had natural growth.
So that means taking Tribulus is just a waste of money? :eh:

[Rahf]

;856428']So simply put, creatine works as a source of energy which your muscles draw from when needed. But wouldn't carbs have the same effect?:eh: I always thought that carbohydrates were meant as an energy storage in our body. So wouldn't an energy drink (which is rich on carbs), be just as efficient as creatine? :eh:. Would there even be any difference between creatine intake and say just plain carbs intake?

My cellular respiration knowledge is a bit rusty, but the only difference I might think of is that carbohydrates and creatine are two different energy storages. Since creatine "charges" up ATP, and ATP is short term energy storage it would give a quicker energy energy supply to the muscles. While it takes more time to split the glycogen to glucose and further to energy. Am I on the right track here?


So that means taking Tribulus is just a waste of money? :eh:

They are two separate energy sources and glycogen does not rebuild ATP, creatine phosphate does. The recharging of ATP is a matter of seconds whereas glycogen recharging takes hours. The reason ATP is present is as an emergency source of energy during intense and short-term activation, glycogen would not produce enough energy in the same timeframe.

Yes, Tribulus is a placebo supplement.

[Skippy]

I don't understand, it was literally after I'd been taking it for about two days that I saw the strength increase and blah blah everything basically that the product supposedly does.

Is all that shit in my mind and nothing was actually effected? I mean lets bare in mind I've only been taking this product for about just under 2 weeks now.

edit:

Tribulus was shown to enhance mounting activity and erection better than testosterone cypionate

Haha thats good enough for me =P

[[RozoN]]

They are two separate energy sources and glycogen does not rebuild ATP, creatine phosphate does. The recharging of ATP is a matter of seconds whereas glycogen recharging takes hours. The reason ATP is present is as an emergency source of energy during intense and short-term activation, glycogen would not produce enough energy in the same timeframe.

Yeah...that's what I was trying to say lol, you just said it 99x times better :tongue:. Thanks for the explanation :smile:

[Rahf]

I don't understand, it was literally after I'd been taking it for about two days that I saw the strength increase and blah blah everything basically that the product supposedly does.

Is all that shit in my mind and nothing was actually effected? I mean lets bare in mind I've only been taking this product for about just under 2 weeks now.

edit:



Haha thats good enough for me =P

You're also still in a growth phase with hormone fluctuations. How long have you been training?

[Skippy]

Weight training I think I have been doing for about 6 weeks now, and bodyweight before that for about 7 weeks.

Although this isn't the first time I've ever weight trained nor taken supplements however, between being 14 until I was 15 I done weight training for about 9 months under the supervision of my eldest brother (he was a bodybuilder).

[Rahf]

Weight training I think I have been doing for about 6 weeks now, and bodyweight before that for about 7 weeks.

Although this isn't the first time I've ever weight trained nor taken supplements however, between being 14 until I was 15 I done weight training for about 9 months under the supervision of my eldest brother (he was a bodybuilder).

6 weeks means you're still having benefits from "newbie gains". Huge gains follow the first months of heavy resistance training.

It's even more likely that tribulus is a placebo, it's even uncertain if creatine gives a significant boost at that stage. It still provides a boost, but compared to the actual gains you are making, it is not as spectacular as in later stages of a training career.

[Skippy]

Aye, I remember when I first started lifting that good gains came within the first 12 weeks, then after that things became alot harder. I guess muscle memory from back then will help me every now and then too.

Well, even if it is a placebo drug, I might as well finish the bottle haha, whatever it has done to me, I feel it has done something and I've got about another 80 pills before it runs out anyway. Even if the effects are only in my mind, it'll keep me happy for the time being =]

[rock_10]

Supps like tribulus might well have real effects, but shit like Rahf posted makes it fairly sure that it isn't through changes steroid hormones (e.g. increasing testosterone). There's many other ways it might really affect sex drive though, which is a very commonly reported 'benefit'.

I tried a tribulus supplement from eBay once and ate up to 20x the daily dose and felt nothing. It was probably too shit a product to conclude anything from, though. Search forums for many and varied reports of experiences with Tribulus.

[WushuTricks]

My friend wants to start taking it but he doenst really want to work out..... How will that affect him>?

Yeah hes a lazy fuck and EMO.

Supplements are only as good as the workout.

[Rahf]

Supps like tribulus might well have real effects, but shit like Rahf posted makes it fairly sure that it isn't through changes steroid hormones (e.g. increasing testosterone). There's many other ways it might really affect sex drive though, which is a very commonly reported 'benefit'.

I tried a tribulus supplement from eBay once and ate up to 20x the daily dose and felt nothing. It was probably too shit a product to conclude anything from, though. Search forums for many and varied reports of experiences with Tribulus.

The "shit" that I posted is as close to the truth as you can get when it comes to apprehending any type of effect from tribulus. If these types of "shit" were infact, shit, then anecdotal evidence such as what you suggest, is the only thing to go by.

Tribulus is a placebo, that people say they get an effect from it does not hold grounds, it is proven to have no effect.

[rock_10]

Rahf you idiot, by "shit" I just mean "stuff".


Tribulus is a placebo, that people say they get an effect from it does not hold grounds, it is proven to have no effect.

More references, then?

[Shadow5217]

Supplements are only as good as the workout.

Its ok I had a talk and he deffinately said he was going to get off his ass if he starts taking it.

[chorou]

creatine is bad for you, its the weightlifting supplament equivalent of crsytal meth

[MasterSword]

^Are you bein sarcastic or for reals?.....

[compleks]

I'm going to save myself the disappointment and assume he was joking.

[mogwai]

prøv det, hjelper både trikcingen og vekt lølftingen!

[Final Prophecy]

Creatine is bad for you. 10 years down the line you will die a painful death of liver cancer.


Actually, I have no fucking idea what I'm talking about. But if it happens, at least I warned you.

[[RozoN]]

prøv det, hjelper både trikcingen og vekt lølftingen!

Jupp jupp...will do :wink:

[kamikaze!]

Heyo lads,

yesterday I was lifting my little weights in fitness, when some friend came to me and we had a little chat about supplements like creatin, bcaa and proteins..
He said taking creatine and proteins is bad for livers. Is that true? :eh:

[Final Prophecy]

Heyo lads,

yesterday I was lifting my little weights in fitness, when some friend came to me and we had a little chat about supplements like creatin, bcaa and proteins..
He said taking creatine and proteins is bad for livers. Is that true? :eh:

Haha actually my post above mentioned it screwing up your liver. I really have no idea how it happens.

But protein can only fuck up your liver if you ingest WAY too much. Like your snorting kilos of protein or somethin.

[Caveman]

i was in a club last night and there were these two walking tanks, one of my friends comes over to me and whispers "do you think they're on creatine?" i let out a sigh of despair.

[kamikaze!]

Haha actually my post above mentioned it screwing up your liver. I really have no idea how it happens.

But protein can only fuck up your liver if you ingest WAY too much. Like your snorting kilos of protein or somethin.

Hahaha, yeah i noticed that but i thought its meant to be sarcastic..
oh well, i think i will just leave that creatine on the fridge.

[mogwai]

Ok tar dette på Norsk..
førs av alt, alt du hører om at ting påvirker leveren er bare tull, ved mindre du fyrer innpå med et kilo porteiner på en time haha...

Kratin... funker det JA, Men! du må bruke det riktig, de fleste kreatintyper må taes i en månede eller mer i strekk, både trenings dager og treningsdager...
så...
det finnes så sykt med forskjellige typer Kreatin typer der ute, og de fleste funker bra, men skal jeg annbefale deg noe så er det Proteinfabrikken sitt Tricreatine, X-Ce-ME eller PVL sin Kreabolic, fordi de er så lette i bruk, finnes også vanlig kreatin monohydrat, har vert lengst på markedet og har mye forskning bak seg, men tingen her at man må ha en opladningsfase på en uke der man tar dobble doser, og også passe på at man får ca 70g carbo ved hver servering utenom..

anbefaler på det sterkeste å bruke D-ribose sammen med creatinet, far enda større effekt :-D

haha sry for lang post:-p
good luck

[mogwai]

Her har du produktene jeg snakket om:

X-ce-me
http://www.proteinfabrikken.no/img/cache/x___ce_me_300_g_spiky_fruit_mix_1805344513_0.jpg

Tricreatine

http://www.proteinfabrikken.no/img/cache/tricreatine_malate_500g_2082222730_0.jpg


Kreabolic
http://www.internutrition.no/images/upload/Kreatin/pic/Krea_Bolic2.jpg

Ribose:
http://www.proteinfabrikken.no/img/cache/d_ribose_150_kapsler_223061741_0.jpg

[mogwai]

og en siste ting..
kreabolic er kaplser er ganske ok...
men sjekk hos andre forhandlere en internutrition fordi er ganske dårlig med levereanser
tar så langt tid som oftest

[Rahf]

Mogwai, vill man icke så behöver man icke uppladdningsfasen, oavsett kreatintyp. Är det första gången så rekommenderar jag personligen monohydrat.

[mogwai]

there is a reason why it says that you have to do it, its not that people want to do it or not... its just how it is.. or else no one would be doing loading stage...

for getting full effect of your monohydrat you have to do the loading stage for about a week

[Rahf]

there is a reason why it says that you have to do it, its not that people want to do it or not... its just how it is.. or else no one would be doing loading stage...

for getting full effect of your monohydrat you have to do the loading stage for about a week

No, it just takes longer for your creatine levels to saturate. What the loading stage does is provide the desired effect in a shorter amount of time.

[mogwai]

yea and thats not full effect...

[[RozoN]]

Awesome! :smile:. Thanks for the informative post, mogwai! :D. Much <3

[Rahf]

yea and thats not full effect...

Depends on when you want full effect :wink:

[mogwai]

Depends on when you want full effect :wink:
hehe, yeah But I guess you know what I ment

[kamikaze!]

can someone translate that ? : /

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

I agree^^^

[[RozoN]]

can someone translate that ? : /

:: NO ::

haha...naahh...I'll get to it...just not right now lol...if some other Norwegian/Swede/anyone who understands Norwegian would do it, will get spanks and kisses fro me lol

[[RozoN]]

Ok tar dette på Norsk..
førs av alt, alt du hører om at ting påvirker leveren er bare tull, ved mindre du fyrer innpå med et kilo porteiner på en time haha...

Kratin... funker det JA, Men! du må bruke det riktig, de fleste kreatintyper må taes i en månede eller mer i strekk, både trenings dager og treningsdager...
så...
det finnes så sykt med forskjellige typer Kreatin typer der ute, og de fleste funker bra, men skal jeg annbefale deg noe så er det Proteinfabrikken sitt Tricreatine, X-Ce-ME eller PVL sin Kreabolic, fordi de er så lette i bruk, finnes også vanlig kreatin monohydrat, har vert lengst på markedet og har mye forskning bak seg, men tingen her at man må ha en opladningsfase på en uke der man tar dobble doser, og også passe på at man får ca 70g carbo ved hver servering utenom..

anbefaler på det sterkeste å bruke D-ribose sammen med creatinet, far enda større effekt :-D

haha sry for lang post:-p
good luck

Okay, here we go:

First of all, all that stuff you hear about creatine affecting your liver is bs, unless you chunk a kilogram of protein in one hour haha.

Creatine...does it work? YES! BUT! You have to use it right. Most types of Creatine must be taken over the period of 1 month or more, both in training days and off days.
It's a fuckload of different Creatine types out there and most of them work fine, but if I had to choose one it would be Proteinfabrikkens Tricreatine, X-Ce-ME or PVLs Kreabolic, because they're so easy to use. You also have usual Creatine monohydrate. It's been longest on the marked and has a lot of research behind it. But the catch here is that you must have a "charging" phase where you have to take double dosing for one weeks period and make sure to take 70g of carbs, with each serving, outside the "charging" phase.

I suggest taking D-ribose together with creatine, it will give you more effect.

Sorry for the long post

That's at least how I understood it. The English is prolly not that good. I have troubles remembering English words, when I have a hangover lol

[mogwai]

good translate:good:

[anfeyd]

Effective creatine strategy:

Buy monohydrate. Take 3-5g daily. End of story.

[kamikaze!]

Rozon: fantastic! thanks for this, much appreciated :good:
Anefyd: how much is 3-5g? One teaspoon?

[Konnar]

This thread made me want to try creatine heh.

Are there any other things to look for in the product apart from creatine% and the fact that it's monohydrate ?

[Rahf]

This thread made me want to try creatine heh.

Are there any other things to look for in the product apart from creatine% and the fact that it's monohydrate ?

No, if it is a creatine monohydrate-product then there shouldn't be anything else in it.

[anfeyd]

Rozon: fantastic! thanks for this, much appreciated :good:
Anefyd: how much is 3-5g? One teaspoon?

5g is roughly 1 teaspoon.

[Gilbert]

If you stop taking creatine will you lose muscle mass ?

[[RozoN]]

If you stop taking creatine will you lose muscle mass ?

Not muscle mass itself, no. But you'd definitely loose volume. Am I right or what? :smile:

[mogwai]

while taking Creatine the muscle cells bind itself to water and the kinda swell up, this makes you gain a little extra weight but also little more muscle volume as Rozon said

[MasterSword]

haha i just got back from walmart with some CREATINE lol

[joepaxton]

I have some capsules that are 700mg each but i cant decide what dosage to use for the loading stage and maintinence becasue there are different sources saying different things, im a bit confused, does have any guidence?:smile:

[[RozoN]]

I have some capsules that are 700mg each but i cant decide what dosage to use for the loading stage and maintinence becasue there are different sources saying different things, im a bit confused, does have any guidence?:smile:
Effective creatine strategy:

Buy monohydrate. Take 3-5g daily. End of story.
This here yeah :smile:

[MasterSword]

^Ha ya thats the stuff I got. There was a bunch of other weird kinds that had all these additives I wasn't really sure of.

So I just bought Body Fortress because it's 100% pure Creatine Monohydrate :)

[Counterfeit Soda]

Just for future reference. Body Fortress, the shit they sell in Walmart is a shit brand.