Help me get a better block on my bhs

[thereid]

This is currently what the block from my backhandsprings look like http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IETa9dapsY0 (please don't mention my bail, just look at the RO BHS) as you can see, the dismount goes backwards a little more than I'd like. I want the set and dismount to look more like this http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NIUOV3nTKL8 I keep trying to snap my legs down further away from my hands, but I can't seem to force my body into that position. Then I thought there's probably more to blocking then that. Is there any other changes I can make anywhere in the RO BHS to perfect it and make a better punch out of it?

[Skilzat85X]

Ummm...push backwards more?

[Bryanimay]

Snap your legs under body more [out of your roundoff] so that your BHS is faster and a bit longer .

[Yuri]

whip back really hard and snap really hard with straight legs and pointed toes making sure your legs are together

also keep your arms straight and narrow, your shoulders should almost be touching your ears, when they are wide it slows down your bhs.

now that I watch your video again, you could whip back a lot harder.
you need to explode backwards out of your roundoff

haha I need to start following my own advice

[Dovicka]

that is plyo, and lil'b is a crazy fucker who said "he was over-rotating his kick-doublefulls so his coach told him to just do kick-triples" and also nearly landed a quintiple (5) full on plyo

one thing that I noticed on the video, comparing it frame-by-frame with a video of one of my double back attempts is that his arms are bent almost at a 45 degree angle in his bhs, while mine are almost fully, and so are yours

at further looking at your double back attempt, that was SHITTY ASS BLOCKING TO THE MAX, you came out of the bhs at almost 45 degree in the wrong direction.

as few suggestions:

1 thing that I have just recently discovered is that although in a straight roundoff a brisk run can give you some more height (not HUGE amounts) in a roundoff backhandspring,

it seems that all that speed is really hard to control and by going at a nice jog into it and concentrating on the technique I can get quite a bit higher than a sprint into it

2: your roundoff into your backhandspring is too much like a roundoff into a backtuck, watch lil'b , his roundoff flawlessly connects to his bhs, I am just getting that to work now, just try to kick your back leg a lot and maybe do a tiny (TINY!!!!) jump just as your hands are shooting towards the ground, that will make that roundoff a little more floaty putting your body in the bhs'ing position as you end yuor roundoff, hopefully

good luck thereid

[WushuTricks]

That double backflip was scary haha. If you tucked more you may have had a chance lol.

[BboyAgua]

You land your round off with your knees in front of your feet. Your knees should be directly above your feet when you land your round off. You are spending too much energy pushing up and down, and changing body position on your back handspring. You are taking time to throw your hips high enough to land in a handstand in your BHS, and bending your knees to kick down out of it. Land your round off correctly and your chest will be up, your feet will be in front of you, and your body will be hollow. Then all you need to do is snap your body from hollow, to open, to hollow again as fast as humanly possible. Very little work, but done incredibly fast. Your BHS will be faster so that your toes will hit the ground before you rotate a full 360 degrees, like you are doing now. Right now you probably have more power from your round off only, your BHS is practically useless.

Don't try to imitate Lil B. His form won't work for you.

[thereid]

Thanks a lot guys, I was hoping for meticulous responses
one thing that I noticed on the video, comparing it frame-by-frame with a video of one of my double back attempts is that his arms are bent almost at a 45 degree angle in his bhs, while mine are almost fully, and so are yours

you mean that your and my arms are fully extended on the ground on the backhandspring, and lil b's arms are bent? Meaning that we should have our arms bent more?

[Skilzat85X]

You should not have your arms bent at all on the back handspring.

[cyrys]

that double back you attempted was crasy

[Dovicka]

You should not have your arms bent at all on the back handspring.

show me a double back that high and then I'll believe you, I'm going to try it next session and show vids that prove or disprove my theory, in some of his other vids he seems to be in almost a pushup position coming out of his bhs, he clearly is the master of blocking and I want to learn from that

[Yuri]

lateef crowder also bends his arms a lot in his bhs and the height he gets is massive. Brandon's also keeps his arms out pretty wide as well as bending them.

However, don't think that just because something works for someone else that it will work for you.
Nevertheless, it is still worth a try.
From a physical perspective though if your arms are straight you will reach the ground earlier thus making the bhs faster. But that does not mean it works for everyone.

[jan]

Jannyjanjanjanjan

[BboyAgua]

show me a double back that high and then I'll believe you, I'm going to try it next session and show vids that prove or disprove my theory, in some of his other vids he seems to be in almost a pushup position coming out of his bhs, he clearly is the master of blocking and I want to learn from that

Lol silly. How's this for blocking (look at 0:32):

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If you prefer a spring floor example look at 1:50:

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Those are both obviously much higher than Lil B's double back. What you don't seem to understand is that it is not because they DO or DON'T (in this case do) have straight arms in their BHS. A whip back can work even better than BHS in some cases. What you SHOULD look for at the examples I provided is what in their body position changes, and what stays the same. Tumbling theory has been changing a lot in recent years, especially due to the popularity of power tumbling. Rotating into the ground, and pushing out of it, is the idea of a block. Not so much a straight ricochet, as canceling out initial rotation is an important part. Hollowing through the end of the BHS or whip magnifies the rotation and channels all of it through your feet. Now, where the bent/straight arms comes in: Achieving a tight hollow body position at the IMMENSE speeds of powerful tumblers, can sometimes be impossible or detrimental with straight arms. So there IS something to say about a bent arm, or wide arm form. If your arms can't keep up with the rest of your body, bending them lets them catch up, getting them ready to set. By all means experiment with the form, and try to empirically measure the results. But you should re-evaluate some other aspects of your tumbling before deciding to take your learning curve off on a tangent that might not help you at your level.

Having to compete with bad advice from other posters, I don't enjoy giving serious advice unless you are serious about your tumbling. Slow down TheReid, train responsibly. Dovicka, have an open mind. Good luck.

[thereid]

Thanks BboyAgua, I was thinking that body positioning is the thing that really matters. Besides your arms bend a little in the bhs no matter what you do, it's inevitable.

[Dovicka]

hmmm, upon further research (trying to find video-proof against BboyAgua, lol) I'm wrong

but I found out after watching mine and thereid's ro bhs, it seems that the cause of the blocking or lack there-of is not the arm bend as I theorized, but rather how the end of the roundoff affects the bhs

visual:
(going --->)
at the end of the roundoff: Thereid : \ me: | lil'b: /

now I should mention that this is a very simple aspect of the tumble, not the whole thing, that is why my ro bhs tuck and thereid's are about the same, that is because he has better set/timing than me, but lil'b is ridiculously higher than both if us

basically, thereid concentrate on the end of your roundoff, try to make it a tad floatier, maybe tuck your legs a little more under you, I know that is what I am going to try next session, that is when the weather stops being stupid and going from 13 Cfor a week to 5 C for a week :P