Quick Question (for Deadlifts)

[Matsuo]

I'm a beginner lifter (giant n00b) and had a quick question due to an experience today.:tongue:

Is it common for a lifter (mostly a newer, inexperienced one) to accidently like, do a workout (or maybe just a set or 2) of bad-form deadlifts?
since well.. from what I've learned deadlifts are crazy strict on the form so you don't annihilate your back.:dead:

My experience today was like, I can really feel that I was doing them correctly for the warm up sets, but then I went slightly higher (to me that is..) for my max and I thought I was doing them correctly, but afterwards when I was done them I kind of second guessed myself and figured maybe I may have slightly rounded my lower back a bit..? if that makes sense hah. I'm sure it won't end me, but just wondering if other people sometimes experience bad form by accident at times when doing your work set? :ogre:

[Kon-El]

It happens, but that's not a reason to actually let it happen. Also if you are as a giant a noob as you claim, you likely shouldn't be maxing anything out yet. I'm sure you'll get a few more constructive replies to answer the rest of your questions.

[Rahf]

Deadlifting, like the other compound exercises, requires alot of focus. Focus to maintain a proper technique and form throughout the entire movement. I'd say lower the weight until you can do proper deadlifts and then slowly progress from there. Before pulling you need to secure your torso, deep breath in, tense your abdominal corset and then lift.

Heavy deadlifts have a tendency to produce flatulence :wise:

I never do anymore repetitions than six at the moment, the ongoing fatigue takes a toll on my form after awhile.

[Caveman]

Ask someone who knows the technique to watch you deadlift, then they can tell you how your form was. Then if you can't get the form right drop the weight to one you can use proper form with and move back up from there.

[Matsuo]

It happens, but that's not a reason to actually let it happen. Also if you are as a giant a noob as you claim, you likely shouldn't be maxing anything out yet.

Haha yeah I know it's not a excuse to let it happen, I always give nothing but my best :tongue: I can probably go heavier but I won't stupidly do it either ^^, I guess I meant my max as in like.. max that I've done since I've started - I just worded it stupidly I guess :eh:


I never do anymore repetitions than six at the moment, the ongoing fatigue takes a toll on my form after awhile.

I do about 5 reps since I've kind of started through that "Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength" book, it's basically how I've learned this whole lifting thing that people do :cyclops: And it'd the next day and my back feels fine so mayhaps I did do them correctly?

Ask someone who knows the technique to watch you deadlift, then they can tell you how your form was. Then if you can't get the form right drop the weight to one you can use proper form with and move back up from there.

Out of all my friends, I'm the only one that researched how to "properly" lift. (properly as in, I'm confidant its proper but for all I know I could be totally wrong?:nervous:) And besides friends I tend to have problems trusting random people :square:.
As like the first day I went there some elderly guy was telling me (more like freaking out heh.. :shocked:) about my squat and was explaining to me to do a squat thats somewhere between a quarter squat and a half squat soo.. I trusted that book more since it explained to me how a full squat is much better and this guy didn't give me much explaination heh :cool:
But again, for all I know I could be totally wrong :smashed: and again everyone makes mistakes, I'm pretty sure of that hah.

As for trying to solve the problem of that quote. Would it be just as fine to bring a friend and ask him to watch certain points then I ask for feedback right after?

[anfeyd]

Out of all my friends, I'm the only one that researched how to "properly" lift. (properly as in, I'm confidant its proper but for all I know I could be totally wrong?:nervous:) And besides friends I tend to have problems trusting random people :square:.
As like the first day I went there some elderly guy was telling me (more like freaking out heh.. :shocked:) about my squat and was explaining to me to do a squat thats somewhere between a quarter squat and a half squat soo.. I trusted that book more since it explained to me how a full squat is much better and this guy didn't give me much explaination heh :cool:
But again, for all I know I could be totally wrong :smashed: and again everyone makes mistakes, I'm pretty sure of that hah.

As for trying to solve the problem of that quote. Would it be just as fine to bring a friend and ask him to watch certain points then I ask for feedback right after?

If you read Starting Strength you probably know more than most people. Try to video tape yourself and see how much rounding you have.

[Honken]

I don't really see the problem here. Arch your back. End of story. The most common problem with beginners is that they raise their hips too fast.

[Rahf]

The problems received from rounding your lower back is, in a best case scenario, just a type of back pain. In a worst case scenario you get a fully ruptured disc and that was all for your active lifestyle.

Both things happen instantaneously, just because you feel fine once, twice or more does not mean it was good for you. Rounded lower backs are death.

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

Yeah,I 5RM'd a new PR for my DL on Wednesday & I felt my form break on the last rep. Luckily I just had a slight back pain throughout yesterday. May I ask your current DL PR,Rahf?

Edit:Also,I 5RM'd my Bench today with no problems but not long after & ever since...Which was about 4hours ago,I've had a chest pain more towards my left,it definitely doesn't feel muscular,I've never felt it before so I can't describe it very well. It hurts when I breathe deep & the pain feels pretty deep itself? The only thing I can think of is that when I bench I let the barbell touch my chest,I definitely do not bounce it off my chest,but I was thinking maybe I let the weight rest on my chest for a split second too long & it's just...caused a momentary pain? Or it could be my heart & I'M GOING TO DIE!?Haha,I'd appreciate it if anybody could help,thanks.I'm on the 5x5 program at this moment it time.:good:

[Matsuo]

In a worst case scenario you get a fully ruptured disc and that was all for your active lifestyle.

Both things happen instantaneously, just because you feel fine once, twice or more does not mean it was good for you. Rounded lower backs are death.

Ahha good to know :smile:

I'm still not 100% sure if I rounded my lower back, but I'm definately not going to just let it do that :wink: I know better than that

[Rahf]

Yeah,I 5RM'd a new PR for my DL on Wednesday & I felt my form break on the last rep. Luckily I just had a slight back pain throughout yesterday. May I ask your current DL PR,Rahf?

Edit:Also,I 5RM'd my Bench today with no problems but not long after & ever since...Which was about 4hours ago,I've had a chest pain more towards my left,it definitely doesn't feel muscular,I've never felt it before so I can't describe it very well. It hurts when I breathe deep & the pain feels pretty deep itself? The only thing I can think of is that when I bench I let the barbell touch my chest,I definitely do not bounce it off my chest,but I was thinking maybe I let the weight rest on my chest for a split second too long & it's just...caused a momentary pain? Or it could be my heart & I'M GOING TO DIE!?Haha,I'd appreciate it if anybody could help,thanks.I'm on the 5x5 program at this moment it time.:good:

Not interesting, post yours and maybe I'll tell. In any case you'll know soon enough :wink:.

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

Not interesting, post yours and maybe I'll tell. In any case you'll know soon enough :wink:.
OK:smile:
BW:65kg,143lb
Height:5"6
DL:100kg,220lb
:good:I haven't been strength training too long.I'm not dead yet.:dead:Just pains from the weight resting on my chest would you assume?

[Rahf]

OK:smile:
BW:65kg,143lb
Height:5"6
DL:100kg,220lb
:good:I haven't been strength training too long.I'm not dead yet.:dead:Just pains from the weight resting on my chest would you assume?

I suspect it would make more sense if you spoke this sentence but you'll have to elaborate now, mate. Both you and I are beginners so no worries, increasing the weight in exercises takes time.

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

I suspect it would make more sense if you spoke this sentence but you'll have to elaborate now, mate. Both you and I are beginners so no worries, increasing the weight in exercises takes time.
Oh,I was talking about the chest pain I mentioned above,but as you're a beginner too I doubt you would have experienced this pain I have.If it isn't gone by the morning I'll have to look into it.Thanks anyway:smile:.

[Rahf]

I've let the barbell rest on my chest more than once, I've even bounced it quite happily in the beginning of my "career" and I still feel fine and dandy. I probably have experienced your pain once or twice and right now I'm just dismissing it as a temporary fluke.

[Ashtar]

The problems received from rounding your lower back is, in a best case scenario, just a type of back pain. In a worst case scenario you get a fully ruptured disc and that was all for your active lifestyle... Rounded lower backs are death.Death for deadlifts, or period?

Rounded lower back deadlift: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBStraightLegDeadlift.html

Straight lower back deadlift: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Hamstrings/BBStrBackStrLegDeadlift.html

There is also rounded-back rows: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/CBSeatedRow.html

Essay on teh dangerz: http://www.exrx.net/Questions/DangerousExercises.html#anchor416052

[Kitosho]

Rounded lower backs are death.




bull fucking shit, look at konstantine konstantinov, jouko ahola, etc


plenty of people have pulled shit tons of weight round backed to make me believe this


imo the real dangers are hitching and overtraining, which is very easy to do when deadlifting

[Rahf]

bull fucking shit, look at konstantine konstantinov, jouko ahola, etc


plenty of people have pulled shit tons of weight round backed to make me believe this


imo the real dangers are hitching and overtraining, which is very easy to do when deadlifting

Rounded upper back yes since that area can take alot more pressure than your lumbar region. They still keep a straight and solid lower back. That is a common powerlifting technique.

Check the video on Konstantinov again, there is one where he deadlifts 400kg or something. You'll see that his upper back has a real curve but that his lumbar region still stays straight.

[Ashtar]

Rahf's right, it is usually the upper back you see rounded.

That said, the articles on exrx talk about rounding the lower back being permissable in some cases, and it shows up in Tsatsouline's 'beyond bodybuilding' a form of training with lighter bars as well.

Since straight-legged deadlifts tend to use lighter weights anyway, I'm guessing this is why it happens. Also, because your torso tends to gravitate more towards being inverted when you maintain hip elevation while lowering your upper body.

The inversion places traction on the spine. Perhaps rounding the lower back with stress on the lower back is less stressful when under traction since disc impingement is less likely to occur or something? I dunno.

[rock_____ten]

Rounded upper back yes since that area can take alot more pressure than your lumbar region. They still keep a straight and solid lower back. That is a common powerlifting technique.

Check the video on Konstantinov again, there is one where he deadlifts 400kg or something. You'll see that his upper back has a real curve but that his lumbar region still stays straight.

That's what a lot of people say but I think its wrong. A lower back can't get any more rounded than that. Go and watch yourself round your lower back in the mirror, there's still a flat portion between your ass and part way up your back. You're right that its kept "solid", though. Rounded or not, its under control.

Here's an animation with, tbh, not a very strong rounding going on, but its cool anyway:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2091/2175106041_f85583ce16_o.gif
http://powerandbulk.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/round-back-v-straight-back/


One point that always comes up in discussions about rounded-back lifting is that there's a difference between intending to stay flat but losing it and then rounding mid-lift, and starting the lift intentionally rounded. The former being more dangerous than the latter. Also, since rounded-back lifting is so commonly known to be ultra dangerous, and no one does it, their back has no strength in that position which it might otherwise have had if it was trained.
Its a fairly controversial topic, google for lots of threads and articles about it. If you have dinosaur training then its written about in there, I think, and if you don't have it then PM me.

Perhaps another thing to bear in mind is that aside from a barbell, not many objects can actually be lifted with a flat back. Most odd-object puts the weight too far out in front and you have to round, unless you can pick it up between your feet or something.


btw here's other KK videos to watch: http://www.youtube.com/user/Konstantinovs

I wouldn't recommend his style be immitated except with very light weights, at first. Rounded-back lifting I reckon would benefit a lot of lifters, though, even if you only consider it as insuring you against accidental rounding when lifting "properly". Sandbag or keg lifting would be the easiest way to do it.

[Rahf]

Doing a "powerlift deadlift" with a rounded upper back should never be attempted without proper coaching and training first.

It is fairly easy to perform if you have a stiff lumbar region and fairly flexible upper torso. I could perform them but I choose not to, I simply don't have the control needed.