TRUE KICK TERMINOLOGY

[dpitlock]

IF ANYONE KNOWS IT PLEASE EXPLAIN IT TO ME, IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT ON ALL ASPECTS.

[Kyle McLean]

why dan. we are talking about it on aim. this is a waste of a thread.

[dpitlock]

shut up kyle go do hyper 180 hook shots

[dpitlock]

sometimes i hate every single one of you

[WilliamT]

http://populationpaste.com/img/2006/05/goatse/goatse01.jpg

[Kyle McLean]

dan dont hate me.

[Flowers]

The only Kicking term you need to know is foot

[Nick Fail]

Cheat 360 bucket pwns all

William T-Grow up

[gabrielb]

this thread cant end well.

[dpitlock]

tkt

pop 360 - pop 180 hook
pop 540 - pop 360 round
pop 720 - pop 540 hook
pop 900 - pop 700 round
pop 1080 - pop 900 hook
pop 1260 - pop 1080 round

c 540 - (c) 540 (hyper round)
c 720 - c 540 hook
c 900 - c 720 round
c 1080 - c 900 hook
c 1260 - c 1080 round

bs 720 - bs 360 hook
bs 900 - bs 540 round
bs 1080 - bs 720 hook
bs 1260 - bs 900 round

i jsut dont know how i feel about this :eh:

[Nick Fail]

i feel awesome about this

[dpitlock]

fuck me

[Skilzat85X]

this thread cant end well.

IT CAN NOW!

[Flowers]

COUNTER REVERSAL!!!

[daviddalo]

eddy wang terminology should be the nr.1

it just calls things waht they are, 2 fucking high kicks, three high kicks

no need fo fancy names

[Skilzat85X]

eddy wang terminology should be the nr.1

it just calls things waht they are, 2 fucking high kicks, three high kicks

no need fo fancy names

I heavily agree with this statement.

[Flowers]

Ya but when you get to twisting moves they all would be called the same thing.

[jan]

I try to at least keep my 720s full 720 degree spins:(

Foot is an awesome term for kicks:D

btwist-gainer-foot-foot-foot-aerial missleg gmswipe-foot-foot.


FANTASTIC:D

[dpitlock]

do you people agree with this or no?

[nightak]

foot is the way to go

[Rakamarasu]

Correct terminology is correct.

I think we should go for a 360 rotation actually being a 360 hook etc

[eddy wang]

tkt

pop 360 - pop 180 hook
pop 540 - pop 360 round
pop 720 - pop 540 hook
pop 900 - pop 700 round
pop 1080 - pop 900 hook
pop 1260 - pop 1080 round

c 540 - (c) 540 (hyper round)
c 720 - c 540 hook
c 900 - c 720 round
c 1080 - c 900 hook
c 1260 - c 1080 round

bs 720 - bs 360 hook
bs 900 - bs 540 round
bs 1080 - bs 720 hook
bs 1260 - bs 900 round

i jsut dont know how i feel about this :eh:

pop 540 - pop 360 hyper round kick

[Torre]

Meh. It won't replace the current terminology.

[jan]

I've always said that a 360 should be 360 degrees, a 720 720 degrees, a 1080 a FULL 3x360 etc...

Sadly, most people disagree on the grounds of "but a 900 is just a 720 with a roundkick!".

Originally, people did them like that, but had enough momentum to actually spin the last 180 after the kick. Just look at old Kim Do forms. Now, people do freaking 540 spins and do a roundkick.

It's funny:P

[mike111590]

yes true trick terminology is correct. It is based on the actually amount of rotation the trick has in the air. Everyone just hates the fact of down grading there tricks. people love to call it a cheat1080 because it is like OMG i did a 1080. but it actuality you are only doing a cheat900hook.
so yes it works and makes cense but people are to proud of there "720's" and "1080's" to every change

[dpitlock]

i agree the backside names need to change.

bs 900 is only a 1 1/2 spins lol

[eddy wang]

Its this what you guys are talking about?
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j172/tropacoco/cheat-1080-kick.gif

[dpitlock]

thats a c 900 hook apparently

[jan]

The pump motion in my 540hook won't let me do cheat1080s, dammit.


FAKE EDIT: Or cheat900hooks, or whatever:P

[Nick Fail]

Then dont try and make your cheat 540 hook a cheat 900 hook. Try making your cheat 720 round a cheat 900 hook. usually thats the course of action.

I do agree with pitlock in the sense that the backside terms need to change. Theres nothing 1080 about a "BS10" the only problem is that since its a 720 and people already call a pop 540 hook a "pop 720" then your gonna have to make a prefix for it. Like saying backside then the correct rotation. Backside 9 becomes BS540. that seems to make sense to me.

[mike111590]

yeah Dan. backside kicks way off.
BACKSIDE KICKS
bs720- pop360hook
bs900- pop540round
bs1080- pop720hook
bs1260- pop1080round

CHEAT KICKS
540kick is still 540 kick
jacknife is still jacknife (enless u wanna call it a cheat360 hyper round hook)
cheat720- cheat540hook
cheat900- cheat720round
cheat1080-cheat900hook
cheat1260-cheat1080round
(same goes for pop kicks, all down a degree)
This is all based on airtime spin

(hook's and rounds can be abbreviated to just H and R)

It really does make more sense. we are just so used to calling our tricks more then they really are.

[Nick Fail]

I'm voting for mike in november guys

[n3m3s1s]

backside moves needs different names. but what?

[Flowers]

lol pop 9's in combos are usually just 180 rounds with a little inversion

[mike111590]

I'm voting for mike in november guys

lol that took me a lil to get

[NOT Muscle Man]

yeah, as mike said but i'm including every kick, tkt basically takes away the whole "backside" and "pop" prefixes and categorize's them under "pop" kicks with the true amount of spins denotated

POP/BS TRANSLATION IN TKT::
no mainstream --> pop 180 hook
pop 360 --> pop 180h hyper
pop round kick (basically feilong without outside crescent) --> 360 round
bs 720 --> 360 hook
pop720 --> 540 hook
bs 900 --> 540 round
pop 900 --> 720 round
bs 10 --> 720 hook
pop 10 --> 900 hook
bs 12 --> 900 round
pop 12 --> 1080 round

CHEAT KICK TRANSLATIONS:
540 --> 540
jacknife --> jacknife
c720 --> c540hook
c900 --> c720 hook
c1080 --> c900 hook

also solves this little problem, the "1080 jacknife"

lets say pop "1080 jacknife" becomes pop 720round hyper hook (makes more sense, the first time I heard the term "1080 jacknife" I thought it would be a pop hyper 1080, as in an outside hyper crescent kick, with another round kick, like a feilong)

cheat "1080 jacknife" becomes cheat 720round hyper hook

all in all, with this short description I hope it helps, maybe later I'll make a short video to help until dan perez stops being lazy and finishes the tkt part of his site

[dpitlock]

john just made sense of it to me

[Skilzat85X]

If this is about the exact number of degrees you spin in the air, you might have to change some names up even more.

Cheat 720 > Cheat 526 Hook
Pop 900 > 703 Hook
BS 12 > 885 Hook

Etc etc etc, you know how it is.

[dpitlock]

god skilzat havent u ever heard of rounding

[Skilzat85X]

http://www.physical-arts.com/training/techniques/images/im_roundhouse_kick_right.gif

[dpitlock]

so tkt takes away prefix bs and just calls it all pop

[shengoikee]

but it requires suffixes haha

actually, i really don't want to be involved in terminology debates tonight.

[Flowers]

It's like switching to the metric system

[shengoikee]

no it isn't

[jan]

imma do a friggin backside 180 hook!!!!1111goodol'saying

[NOT Muscle Man]

If this is about the exact number of degrees you spin in the air, you might have to change some names up even more.

Cheat 720 > Cheat 526 Hook
Pop 900 > 703 Hook
BS 12 > 885 Hook

Etc etc etc, you know how it is.

i actually lol'd at this



so tkt takes away prefix bs and just calls it all pop


yeah, and really the only suffixes are the kind of kick it is, a hook or round, and the "hyper" prefix is changed to a suffix so you say the kick first and then denote that it was hyper-ed (I think, it might be a prefix still I forget)

honestly, both systems have their flaws, I personally like tkt because it's makes a lot of pop kicks easier for me to think about before I do them. Also, because it denotes the actual amount of spins (not as exact as skilzat would like, but close enough) it makes kicks a lot easier to grasp and do, and mentally it makes the kicks seem easier (for me at least, a 720hook sounds a lot easier than a backside1080).

Although it does not denote the take-off position, which can be a bit confusing at first, it's just like when you first starting learning to trick. Through saying it and doing it you learned that a cheat take-off meant off of one leg. Same thing with the pop kicks, even degree hook kicks are backside, odd degree hook kicks are pop, even degree round kicks are pop and odd degree round kicks are backside.


In the end though, it comes down to your own preference. If you don't like the system don't use it. If you don't understand it, at least try and make an attempt to, so you can make a decision knowing both systems. Also, check out dan perez's (ambitricksterous, sp??) site once he puts up the tkt section, things will make a lot more sense, because from what he's told me it's going to be both video and written descriptions of all the kicks (pop, cheat, w/t, and s/t kicks definitely, and maybe illusion kicks I'm not sure) will make thing's much easier to understand

[blademonki]

I forget who brought it up originally but we really ought to convert to radians. Degrees is an archaic and inaccurate system.

DUDE DID YOU SEE HIS 4pi HOOK!? SO CLEAN!!!11

[Kyle McLean]

jim suggested that

[NOT Muscle Man]

me and james actually expanded on that and are now including flips

in order to do so, you must specify the axis you are rotating around

ex:

540hook --> y3pi/2hook (y specifies the axis)

gainer full--> x2pi y2pi because you are rotating horizontally over the x-axis while spinning on the y

btwist --> x2pi
etc, etc

[Nick Fail]

jon, you have a insane understanding of TKT. props my friend. (its not that hard after you take 20 seconds and try to make sense of it)

[daviddalo]

i agree, backside tricks need to be renamed :ouch:

some throw "backside 900s" with less than one rotation

calling those like 900s is just wrong

[verymetaldan]

There are only 2 names which confuse kick names, unfortunately they are the 2 most common ones.

360, c720, 720, c900, hyper what ever all follow the same system.

First off if everyone would stop calling cheat 720s 540 hooks we'd have way less confusion, and secondly a 540 should really be called a hyper cheat 540, but its the most common kick and thats a bit of a mouthful, so it gets shortened.

[NOT Muscle Man]

jon, you have a insane understanding of TKT. props my friend. (its not that hard after you take 20 seconds and try to make sense of it)

i'm a math major, degrees and all that shit is my thang, lol

There are only 2 names which confuse kick names, unfortunately they are the 2 most common ones.

360, c720, 720, c900, hyper what ever all follow the same system.

First off if everyone would stop calling cheat 720s 540 hooks we'd have way less confusion, and secondly a 540 should really be called a hyper cheat 540, but its the most common kick and thats a bit of a mouthful, so it gets shortened.

but cheat720's don't have anything 720 about them, they're not cheating a kick with 720 degrees of rotation, the only person I can think of right now that always does the true rotations in his kicks is steve miller. In order for a pop720 to have 720 degrees of rotation the performer would need to land in the same position as one would land for a pop 360 (mainstream, tkt: hyper 180 hook), most people though land on one leg as they hook kick with the other

ex: lets say i hook with my left leg, so when i do my pop take off i take off facing left, i jump off facing left, turn to face right, turn again facing left (360 degrees), i turn one last time to face right as i land on my right leg and hook (thus giving me 540 degrees of rotation in the air), a true "pop 720" is only done when hypered or landed on two feet


now, with the 540 kick: a 540 is technically a cheat hyper 360 round, now thats a moutful to say, and when you say "im going to do a 540" everyone knows exactly what you're talking about

[Skilzat85X]

but cheat720's don't have anything 720 about them, they're not cheating a kick with 720 degrees of rotation
Who care? who? Haha. It's just a label, one which everyone already knows the meaning of.

"But skilz it's not an accurate label it might confuse people."
Oh well!

[dpitlock]

Lets change every move name to animal names!!!

Pop Parrot hook Seagull s/t Flamingo
(you know its an all kick combo because they are all birds!)

[NOT Muscle Man]

Who care? who? Haha. It's just a label, one which everyone already knows the meaning of.

"But skilz it's not an accurate label it might confuse people."
Oh well!

true

but I like the tkt system better because I find it easier to wrap my head around the kicks by calling them by their actual amount of rotations. It's your opinion which system you use, I'm just pointing out the strengths of tkt. Also, we could get into a long-winded debate about whether the trick names should accurately depict the trick itself or if we should stick with the traditional conventions, but in the end it really wouldn't amount to much. You would still have your point of view and I would still have mine, odds are neither of us are going to change it.


In short, check out the tkt part of dans site once he stops being lazy and puts it up, just to see what it's about, if you don't like it then don't use it, but don't bash it without knowing what it is.

[Ambitrixterous]

Haha this thread is my favorite. Thanks to those backing me up on this, & yes TKT rules all. The ONLY thing "bad" about it is that while other forms of terminology are around it leaves some confusion sharing names, but other than that it accounts for the hundreds of kicks that half of you foos don't even know exist! Don't try & be like "I know ALL the kicks, the system we have NOW has em all!!!" Yeah right. Let's all fist fight that's how much I love terminology :smoke:

PS for John & others: yes the re-edit on TKT is coming soon AND I gots a fun plan to get people who are not listening to realize why the 'standard' system sucks

[verymetaldan]

but cheat720's don't have anything 720 about them, they're not cheating a kick with 720 degrees of rotation,

Ah but that is where you are wrong! If you watch steve teradas 720

http://www.club540.com/tricktionary/720.mpg

you can see that he does a regular 360 with a full extra rotation before the kick. He rotates 720 degrees. all of them in the air.

A cheat 720 is the cheat version of this move, because you cheat the take off by 180 degrees. And there are some people, notably Jujumufu and Shengokee who can land them on both feet.

The names aren't wrong, people are doing the moves wrong!

I'm not saying this is the only way to name kicks, it does cause a bit of confusion, but if you over look 540 and 540 hook, it has more consistency than people realise, and it is based on the the number of degrees of rotation, even if the last half turn comes after the non kicking foot has touched down for most people.

[mogwai]

I always have disagreed with the new terms

[keven]

From start, I said stick to the actual rotation amount when you name it, but now terminology is the way it is, and I have no objections.

But if we SHOULD have a reform soon, I'll be a follower, but all people should accept the change back to actual degree- naming, otherwise it'd be meaningless.

The only means of (tricks) terminology is to have people talking about the same thing, and being able to understand each other, NO?

I don't know if I'm making sense, I'm tired.

[tricker383]

ARRRHHHH i hate this i dont get kicking termolagey if i jump in the air spin 540% then (while still in th air) throw out a hook kick and land both feet i say thats a 720 hook kick

am i right thinking this ?

[Skilzat85X]

It took me about 2 minutes but this morning in the shower I developed RKT. Real Kicking Terminology.

It's wonderful!

[OyajiTricker]

i'm too set in my ways to change, call me ignorant but i've been tricking too long, I still call c720 540 hook.

in all honesty, Koreans count this the same way as the "true kick terminology" to each it's own :)

[tigtricker]

Terminology discussions are the bane of my life. There is no good reason to talk about terminology. If two people with any degree (pun intended) of sense are communicating about tricks with each other then there is no confusion. And the claim that terminology should be changed purely because it's inaccurate is :agony:

[mike111590]

Lets change every move name to animal names!!!

Pop Parrot hook Seagull s/t Flamingo
(you know its an all kick combo because they are all birds!)

I agree

[shengoikee]

hahahaha!

flamingo kicks

[Dave]

TKT is really freaking stupid :eh:.

[NOT Muscle Man]

TKT is really freaking stupid :eh:.

have you taken any time to figure out what it is or do you not like it because it's different from what you know?

[Skilzat85X]

Lala circles circles circles.

This time it stays locked.