Is turn out have anything to do with flexibility?

[loveisalie2]

Slightly ballet related, but in ballet you have to have really good turnout like this:
http://www.balletinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/ballet-1st-position.jpg

As you can see her feet are turned out at an 180 degree angle, the turnout does not come from her feet but from the muscles in her upper leg.
And i was just wondering if this is related to how flexible a person is.
This is a stretch I do to improve my flexibility AND my turnout:

http://file044b.bebo.com/4/large/2008/09/11/09/7430274024a8857309433l.jpg

The aim is to bet my pelvis and my legs and feet on the ground. A girl in my ballet class can get all the way down, and the teacher says that it is because she has natural 180 degree turnout as the rest of our class does not, she is also more flexible than any of us.

I hope that made sense,
So what are your opinions, are those two related somehow?

[Reim]

Well.. I'm pretty sure whether or not you can do a full turn out or not is a question of flexibility, just in those muscles.

[loveisalie2]

Btw i meant to say:
"HAS turnout have...."

[ButtHash Hero]

noice! :good:

[Shelz]

you turn out from your hips....so yeah, turnout is related to flexability

[Tossman]

I have good turnout, but I can't split.

[tuareg]

i can turn my legs out till both are pretty much pointing backwards (with straight legs) :good:

kids love it haha.

[Nielso]

Not related, one of my friends can do it but he is totally not flexible.

[TricksterBee]

why are you here...

[joepaxton]

you turn out from your hips....so yeah, turnout is related to flexability

I don't really have an opinion but Shelz your hair is awesome!

[Papa Lazarou]

Of course it is?

Remember that there are several factors though. People who have been stretching or doing things like ballet since their childhood may have more pliant ligaments.

I don't know if everyone could achieve this on muscular extensibility alone.

[Shelz]

I don't really have an opinion but Shelz your hair is awesome!

why thank you =]

[TricksterBee]

your flex must not be that good if you cant go all the way down

[Shelz]

btw this thread is stupid

[loveisalie2]

btw this thread is stupid

About as stupid as your hair is.

[loveisalie2]

your flex must not be that good if you cant go all the way down

That's what I'm confused about, because I generally am really flexible but that position has to do with the natural turn out you are born with,

[Shelz]

Jealous?

[loveisalie2]

Not really, I can be a chav any time I want.

[chicanerous]

This is basically genetic unless you specifically worked at it as you were growing up (e.g. in ballet). It's based on your ligaments and pelvic structure. If you don't already have it, you're not going to get it, especially considering you're already quite flexible.

[Shelz]

Chavs don't have pink hair, stupid.

[loveisalie2]

Chavs don't have pink hair, stupid.

meh depends

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

There's a little net "beef" going on. Anyway,I also like your hair,Shelz. OP,Turn outs are pretty much genetics,you're still quite young so you could possibly get them,but it's highly unlikely as I'm quite sure you've started "ripening".

[Origional]

It has to do with abducter(hip flexor flexability)

[Shikayo]

A lot of people think they have a good turnout if they can stand with their feet at a 180 degree angle, like in the first picture. As you said though, turnout relates to the hips, not the feet. Some people can turnout their feet but not their hips, in which case they are twisting their knees. These people tend to have loose ligaments in their knee joints.

Now, my dance teacher used to say to me that if you stand in parallel, you cannot raise either leg higher than 45-90 degrees. However, if you turn out your legs from your hip joints, then the head of the femur is in a position where the leg is allowed to be lifted higher than 90 degrees.

http://www.bailarinas.kit.net/Fotos/Aula/developpe_a_la_seconde.jpg

Here's Tim doing it:

http://www.extremestunts.se/Eng/profilepics/big/fulltshirt.jpg

However, you'll notice that in both of those pictures, the turnout isn't perfect - that's to say it isn't 180 degrees. In fact, with Tim's, tilt your head to the right and it's like he's doing a front-split, but with the back leg turned out (ie. knee facing sidewards, not flat on the floor).

Turnout is primarily structural. Factors affecting it include the head of the femur's size, and whether or not there are any uneven structures inside the hip socket that prevent it from rotating. Ligaments around it also affect its rotation.

HOWEVER. Look at this picture:

http://www.trickstutorials.com/images/s47.jpg

Juji's practically in the side-splits. Imagine a rope comes down out of nowhere from above him. Imagine he grabs onto the rope with his hands. Imagine the rope pulls him upward to a standing position.

Wouldn't he be standing like this?

http://www.balletinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/ballet-1st-position.jpg

So, does that mean that Juji too has a 180 degree turnout? I believe that whist some people say turnout is based entirely on the structure of the hips, anyone who achieves the side-splits has also achieved a 180 degree turnout.

http://www.trickstutorials.com/images/i13.jpg

Juji says it himself: "Keep your back upright and your pelvis tilted forward."

I hope this was in someway helpful and correct. =]

[Origional]

I think it has more to do with the hip abducters than the side split.

EDIT: the side split requires decent abducter flexability

[Shikayo]

I think it has more to do with the hip abducters than the side split.

EDIT: the side split requires decent abducter flexability


Oh I know, but I'm saying that whilst a lot of people dismiss 'turnout' as simply structural, those who can side-split tend to have a near-180 degree turnout. So training for the side-split must obviously help. In ballet though, how you use your turnout is more important than your degree of turnout, whatever it is. Plies whilst maintaining your turnout, for example, or developpes and ronde de jambe.

[chicanerous]

Oh I know, but I'm saying that whilst a lot of people dismiss 'turnout' as simply structural, those who can side-split tend to have a near-180 degree turnout. So training for the side-split must obviously help.
Correlation does not imply causation.

[Shikayo]

Correlation does not imply causation.

This is very generic. But I never implied causation - I merely highlighted the correlation and then said "it must help." I'll admit that is very vague, so to expand, training for the side-splits will hopefully compliment and improve your turn-out.

[Augenatic]

http://www.extremestunts.se/Eng/profilepics/big/fulltshirt.jpg


I fucking love Tim! Also, nice flexibility in that avatar Sara!

[loveisalie2]

This is very generic. But I never implied causation - I merely highlighted the correlation and then said "it must help." I'll admit that is very vague, so to expand, training for the side-splits will hopefully compliment and improve your turn-out.



fact is, i can do the side splits, but my hips are rotated inwards and my pelvis is forward,
I cannot physically do it with my knees facing upwards because of my horrible turnout
it sucks
:sad:
In ballet I tend to turn out from my feet instead of my hips, i mean, you cant really see the difference much but it is really bad for my knees, many ballet dancers who do this develop knee problems :dead:
But the fact is only a few people are granted with 180 degree turnout :sad:

[loveisalie2]

nice flexibility in that avatar Sara!


thankss
:)

[Shikayo]

fact is, i can do the side splits, but my hips are rotated inwards and my pelvis is forward,
I cannot physically do it with my knees facing upwards because of my horrible turnout
it sucks
:sad:
In ballet I tend to turn out from my feet instead of my hips, i mean, you cant really see the difference much but it is really bad for my knees, many ballet dancers who do this develop knee problems :dead:
But the fact is only a few people are granted with 180 degree turnout :sad:

I see... Have you got a picture of you sitting in the side-splits? Also, how often do you train in ballet and for how long have you trained?

(Brilliant arabesque penché!)

[loveisalie2]

I see... Have you got a picture of you sitting in the side-splits? Also, how often do you train in ballet and for how long have you trained?

(Brilliant arabesque penché!)

I've been doing ballet for 11 years and I train 10 hours a week,
I don't have a photo of me in side splits
I'll take one today

[Jimnast]

About as stupid as your hair is.

Most excellent.

[Dragonic MiKe]

Hahaha, I can do this.

Also, what the fuck would you know about chavs, Sara?

[Shikayo]

I've been doing ballet for 11 years and I train 10 hours a week,
I don't have a photo of me in side splits
I'll take one today

I'm beat. In ballet I've always been taught to focus more on how well you use the turnout that's natural to you, rather than constantly strive for a greater turnout. I cannot fully side-split, but my split reflects my turnout, as does the other dancers in my class, and the dancers at Birmingham Royal Ballet (who I spent a good year working with). I guess I've always followed this connection.

In regards to the whole subject though, I found this link that might be very useful to you:

http://www.dancehelp.com/articles/technique/turnout.aspx

By the way, have you ever tried Graham technique? It has helped make my turnout a lot easier to maintain whilst performing various movements (from plies to ronde de jambe, etc.). It might help with your knee problem, because some of the floor exercises strengthen the abductors, etc.

[loveisalie2]

Hahaha, I can do this.

Also, what the fuck would you know about chavs, Sara?

haha nothing
:tongue:

[loveisalie2]

I'm beat. In ballet I've always been taught to focus more on how well you use the turnout that's natural to you, rather than constantly strive for a greater turnout. I cannot fully side-split, but my split reflects my turnout, as does the other dancers in my class, and the dancers at Birmingham Royal Ballet (who I spent a good year working with). I guess I've always followed this connection.

In regards to the whole subject though, I found this link that might be very useful to you:

http://www.dancehelp.com/articles/technique/turnout.aspx

By the way, have you ever tried Graham technique? It has helped make my turnout a lot easier to maintain whilst performing various movements (from plies to ronde de jambe, etc.). It might help with your knee problem, because some of the floor exercises strengthen the abductors, etc.


can't look at the link now, it's blocked at school
What's the Graham technique?
lol

[zambri]

i can lay completely flat on the ground some times i have to "adjust" but it took me about a month to be able to do it, after i started doing these for a while hook kicks became more comfortable

[Ashtar]

Achieving turnout with hips flexed, but maybe 180 turnout with hips extended (or at least, straight down as in standing) is harder?

One test would be, if you're doing a standing backbend, can you still maintain the turnout? Even in the ballerina pic the girl seems to be leaning forward a bit so that might have something to do with it.

I think alie's pic is a good idea for making sure the turnout occurs at the hips rather than knees or ankles, seems like an upside down butterfly stretch. It's probably easier on your spine than prolonged butterfly stretching where it's hard to maintain proper alignment. also it is sexier to see a girl doing this

[firewolf_999]

you can damage your knees if you dont turn out with your hips... and it hurts less if you turn out properly... one of my friends got me to sit on the floor with my legs out straight in front, and then got me to turn out and see if i could get my toes to touch the floor... my turn out is good i think , but i'm a chick, so i suppose it helps...

why you asking about turn out anyways??

[Ashtar]

Probably because it is factor in kicking and splits and is definately an area of flexibility. It's technically external/lateral rotation rather than flexion so it's not as impressive as hip flexion or anything but it's subtly valuable.

[Franks]

I don't know about splits, but is the girl who can do a turn out much bettr in bed then the one who can't? :wink: