Arrrgh!

[furioushaime]

scoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raiz, scoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raiz:
full, corck, full, corck, btwist, btwist, btwist, gainer...

backside, backside, backside->

WHAT THE FUCK!? Originality, where?

[Less than Dan]

Everything that everyone learns these days is raiz-cork variations.

Pop kicks have really left the scene. Also, real tumbling besides roundoff -> back(fulltwist, flash, etc) hardly exists.

Tricks are hitting a point where powerful swingthroughs are the thing. Remember the days when getting a sampler onto Bilang was one of the greatest honors for a trickster (still is a pretty big deal)? Back then, kicks were all it was about. Tricks in general was still in a phase of massive discovery of limits.

Now people are just swing-through crazy, which leads to the raiz/b-twist swings becoming very common. One day, maybe it'll change...

[shengoikee]

HAHAHAHAH!!

=D

*5 stars*

[simon]

i'm trying haime! it's hard :(

[TiVo]

I blame the Europeans lol.

Still love em though.

[Skippy]

People just want to learn whatever they think looks best. There are a few trickers out there though that put good effort into creativity, Alexx always being my favourite example of this.

[simon]

alexx won tricking at derby gathering, he knows what he's doing even though he doesn't know what trick is next in the combo.

[David M.]

you get stuff like the tricking bible which essentially is a textbook.. much alike "TKT" you get a bunch of people who think in one way... how does this spark creativity???

i know, tkt was uncalled for, it's essentially terminology, but when it comes to the tricks themselves, terminology comes into play " 720, 900 " doesn't matter if it's TKT or whatever method anyone uses.. whatever sounds and looks appealing is whatever someone is going to go for.

td-r is just an appealing move that people will go for :p.

[Gravityjay]

I don't scoot, I cant touch down raiz and I have very poor transitions for my swing throughs... I do use cartwheels in combos at times though simply because I can be pretty much falling over and throw a cartwheel and carry on because of the extra stability I get from it...

[Duck]

I can't do anything remotely resembling any one of those moves. Hahahaha

[Origional]

IMO, if people want to trick that way that is their problem. You don't like it trick otherwise

[Kyle McLean]

i try haime. tonite ill doing something super orginal
for you

[Flowers]

I have a feeling when I get double B I will no longer have a use for it haha

[[RozoN]]

Hey! I like swing througs! They feel sooooo goooooodddd

[D.A.]

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/dlpk31/thmonkeyCAVAFGW7.jpg
YEAH Fuck y'all Niggas!
In mah EYEBAWLS!

[900rmk]

Awesome thread. Don't worry there will always be people that want to do things because no one else would. I've got some creative stuff I want to pull off for my sampler, hopefully you guys will like them.

[[RozoN]]

When I started doing s/t's, I wanted to do them because they looked cool and because not many people did them. Unfortunately, by the time I actually started getting some propers swings, everyone else were doing them...

OH THE IRONY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[furioushaime]

Hmmm...
I know tricking can be about doing what feels good. Also about just having fun, or doing what you want...
:blah blah:
To me, it's about not being concerned of what other people think, but rather to do what feels natural for you. So I understand we trick for different reasons.
For me, it being an art form. Something that I do to be as different from the group as possible. Even if I'm doing the same moves or combos as everyone else, I have a different style to it. Speed, power, fluidity, aggressiveness, or lack of all-> I do everything I do with a style that is my own, that no one can copy. Every time I trick I try harder to be a better "Jaime".
I "take or steal" transitions and moves from others, but add them to my style in a way that people won't easily mimic.

I don't want to preach or be strong on the nostalgia and shit, but the older samplers had this flavor to them. Style and finesse, and sometimes (more so than now), creativity. I'm usually highly supportive, I rarely rant. Mainly because it doesn't really do anything. BUT FUCK!!! Samplers are getting kind of boring...
>more to come>

p.s.
And I know I suck at twisting and swing throughs. Your argument is invalid, my hair is an ostrich.
Devon, nice monkey.

[D.A.]

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/The_DAs_LIST/NOBITING.jpg
HEY!
YOU CAN'T BITE MY STYLE!

[furioushaime]

HAHA...
<3 Devon

[D.A.]

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/The_DAs_LIST/Jaime.jpg
Jaime is a frog

[D.A.]

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/The_DAs_LIST/IMG_0001.jpg
Hyper Aerials in the fucking snowtime
NOW THAT'S TRICKING!

[D.A.]

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/The_DAs_LIST/IMG_0015.jpg
Trevor says: "I would nom on all this Endorush"

[D.A.]

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g248/The_DAs_LIST/P1000102-1.jpg
That's Correct!
It's James Yu

[jan]

scoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raiz, scoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raiz:
full, corck, full, corck, btwist, btwist, btwist, gainer...

backside, backside, backside->

WHAT THE FUCK!? Originality, where?

WAHEY! Finally!:D

I want to triiick, because I can't do any of the above:D

[dpitlock]

I hate corks now. And s/ts are overrated.

[BboyAgua]

This is my favorite thread of all time. I am going to buy the internet just to save this thread for eternity.

Haime is very much correct.

Everyone who believes this, is a frog, or who is the ambassador to my <3, must trick at CCG next weekend. I'll drive+pay+sing jewish christmas songs. No is not an option.

[Anima]

haha, if I could all I would do is b-twist s/t cork etc. I think they look awesome.

[furioushaime]

I hate corks now. And s/ts are overrated.

haha, if I could all I would do is b-twist s/t cork etc. I think they look awesome.

I like these tricks. I mean shit, if you can't do this stuff you'd be falling behind. I do carts, scoots, backsides, valdezeseses, touchdowns all that: you know what gets me is when a sampler or a gathering is about 80% filled with these moves that it starts to get a bit annoying.
Tricking isn't sponsored and it really isn't a sport /yet/. So I don't think it should be treated as one. Like, don't emulate a source or try so hard to be like the person before you, because more than likely you'll either be just :as good as them, worse, or following in their shoes:.

...but you know, this is pointless. haha
:dead::dead::dead:

[simon]

i've worked my 540 for a year and its still not good :agony:

[Anima]

Yeah variety is vital to be a good Trickster. Simon, I just landed my first 540 after loosing them for a year. :smile:

But it was pretty shit, so yours is probably way better than mine haha. :agony:

[saunders]

Pop kicks have really left the scene. Also, real tumbling besides roundoff -> back(fulltwist, flash, etc) hardly exists.

Tricks are hitting a point where powerful swingthroughs are the thing.

i'm guilty of this. s/ts just feel so good. it's like a rollercoaster when doing twistcorks and corkcorks. i almost never do pop transitions 'cause i fuck up with them. i want to do more of those tho

Remember the days when getting a sampler onto Bilang was one of the greatest honors for a trickster (still is a pretty big deal)?

lol yeah i remember that. nowadays it seems everyone can get on bilang.

[Alexx]

haime have you ever seen someone scoot the wrong way then backside trick back the other way ? or walk out of a valdez ? you can do some pretty weird little things with these tricks if you want to think outside the box

[saulus]

since i can't cork and all those other variations well i stick to cheat and pop kicks.....
i believe that this is because people who start new, see trickers like teddy etc....
and trickers who started back in the days had other rolemodels for tricking , juji, you jaime, hans, chris dee and so on...
the bad thing about it is that when you kick you don't get much help and comments on your tricks anymore and i believe for some people ecspecially beginners it's pretty important to get much feedback... if i wouldn't get any posts on my vids i wouldn't want to release things and would believe they aren't good so people just don't do the kicks anymore...
another reason is that kicks are much harder to learn and it's harder to make them look flashy and awesome, you got to be flexible and stuff which takes a lot of time to get good at.... and when i think about all the work i had fixing my kicks , foot position, whole body position, get them powerfull, high.... i can see why many people give up fast...

[Safari]

These are setups needed to get ready for the real deal..

[D.A.]

haime have you ever seen someone scoot the wrong way then backside trick back the other way ? or walk out of a valdez ? you can do some pretty weird little things with these tricks if you want to think outside the box

yes but who actually does these things, alex? I think Jaime was talking about the use in excess and lack of creativity applied to these moves. I too have noticed the standard way of doing a gainer full nowadays is from scoot->valdez->s/t.

[Cory]

I have started using Tdraiz...:agony:
(Sorry, Devon.)

[AsoBit]

It's hard to be creative when you're a noob, but dammit I'm trying!

[Skippy]

yes but who actually does these things, alex? .

Alexx does! =]

If noone does them, then someone should, and then at least they'd have their own bit of creativity.

[Cory]

I do hook kicks between tricks. I'm original! :wink:

[mike111590]

I can't do t/d raiz or valdez : )

[WilliamT]

I don't cartwheel anymore
(I use aerials and masterswipes in their place)
I really only do flashfulls or flashknives out of tdraizes
(All of these tdraiz swing double gainerfulls make me want to kill myself)
I occasionally scoot cork
(but only because it's good swingthrough practice)
I've done a couple backside nines in my life
(bs9_dleg and c9 hk sideswipe bs9 hook c7)
my valdez is awesome
(and you know it :p)

[Alexx]

you dont need to list what you do/don't do to defend yourself from this.

just let your tricks speak for themselves man.

[Safari]

you dont need to list what you do/don't do to defend yourself from this.

just let your tricks speak for themselves man.

Word!

The reason for this overuse of setups is probably because they are effective and makes tricking better for you, atleast that's why I use them and I'm well aware of that my tricking consists of waaaay to much scoot-tricks

[David M.]

there is a difference from having a creative style than just doing a lot of tricks that others don't haha.

people who do the shit they wanna do trick the way they want to. isn't that all that matters? seeing someone reach their goals rather than someone who goes out of the way to prove that they're "creative"?

[BboyAgua]

If you're creative, you shouldn't have to prove it. It should be visible at all times.

[Alexx]

yeah i was so creative today. i painted a pictur

[David M.]

yeah i was so creative today. i painted a pictur

u're so creative, you spelled "picture" without the "e"

THEREFORE YOU ARE GOD OF TRICKS

[Torre]

Problem is I have a shitload of unusual ideas but I can't do any of them :sad: At least I have them in my little notebook for all eternity :D

[[RozoN]]

Problem is I have a shitload of unusual ideas but I can't do any of them :sad: At least I have them in my little notebook for all eternity :D

ahhh...I'm just the same haha...I have fuckloads of combos on my phone that are batshit insane hard and most likely will never be done by me :eh:

[MCLAYISONFIRE]

scoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raiz, scoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raiz:
full, corck, full, corck, btwist, btwist, btwist, gainer...

backside, backside, backside->

WHAT THE FUCK!? Originality, where?

Haha you say this Jaime, but since I started to trick I've seen you Americans perpetually whore out raiz & touchdown raiz to no end like your NASKA heros. :tongue:

[Safari]

Haha you say this Jaime, but since I started to trick I've seen you Americans perpetually whore out raiz & touchdown raiz to no end like your NASKA heros. :tongue:

YOU'RE ON FIRE MCLAY!

[furioushaime]

Haha you say this Jaime, but since I started to trick I've seen you Americans perpetually whore out raiz & touchdown raiz to no end like your NASKA heros. :tongue:

uh...I never blamed euros for it.
:wink:

I'm just saying the seen in general...
It sucks.

[FatTricks]

I can neither raiz properly or touchdown raiz. I can't even swingthru. Hahahhaa
But Haime.....you're right.

[Alexx]

uh...I never blamed euros for it.
:wink:

I'm just saying the seen in general...
It sucks.

i kinda like people using groundwork, but its kinda annoying everyone abusing it for every single combo nowadays !
it was nice when it was just people starting to use it more in combos
altho i'm groundworks bitch too :sad:

[MCLAYISONFIRE]

I'm just speaking generally.

You Mr Haime, do not whore out anything but sick tricks & sweet vids!

YOU'RE ON FIRE MCLAY!

*THRUST* <3

[simon]

WHY DO YOU HAVE SO MANY FUCKING ACCOUNTS JOHN!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[furioushaime]

I'm just speaking generally.

You Mr Haime, do not whore out anything but sick tricks & sweet vids!



*THRUST* <3

you too, at least you take it to the max. you go big! doubling and wrapping through like crazy.

[MCLAYISONFIRE]

Because Scott Skelton's dad spearheads a homoerotic empire here in Australia?

[DON SKELTON]

Because Scott Skelton's dad spearheads a homoerotic empire here in Australia?

This is very true!
I LOVE HOMOEROTICA!
IT IS MY LIFE!
IT IS WHAT I LIVE FWWWOAARRRRRR!!!

MY SON SCOTT ALSO LOVES IT!!
HE LOVES IT!!

[simon]

Because Scott Skelton's dad spearheads a homoerotic empire here in Australia?

This is very true!
I LOVE HOMOEROTICA!
IT IS MY LIFE!
IT IS WHAT I LIVE FWWWOAARRRRRR!!!

MY SON SCOTT ALSO LOVES IT!!
HE LOVES IT!!
HOHOHO!




how does scotty's father truly feel about this?

[furioushaime]

hahaha...kids man, and their dads.

[simon]

it's strange, i just realised how everyone i trick with has like an obsession with their father.hahaa.

[Andy R]

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7183/motivator9100754ia4.jpg

[furioushaime]

Whoa, haha...
Who made this, and when?

[simon]

THAT REMINDS ME.
I NEED TO SHAVE.

[Andy R]

i just made it lol

[furioushaime]

Nice one...
haha
+ I'm going to Cape Cod Gymnastics next weekend. It'll be touchdown-scootastic!

[Andy R]

yay!

[simon]

NO HANDED SCOOT HERE I COME!

[furioushaime]

NO HANDED SCOOT HERE I COME!

haha, oh man that's a good idea! sort of~

[Alexx]

just do some backwards scoots, they way cooler

[dpitlock]

IM SICK OF SWING THRUS!

PEOPLE DONT USE THE DOUBLELEG ENOUGH!

[furioushaime]

just do some backwards scoots, they way cooler

IM SICK OF SWING THRUS!

PEOPLE DONT USE THE DOUBLELEG ENOUGH!

yesX2

[Andy R]

i wanna figure out how to do a scoot but have my leg swinging down instead of up. so i can do like scoot st atwist :juji:

[Alexx]

think i'm gonna make a vid of the weird stuff i saw at LK...
tease -
http://www.divshare.com/download/5521947-593

[Origional]

think i'm gonna make a vid of the weird stuff i saw at LK...
tease -
http://www.divshare.com/download/5521947-593
nice

[Ambitrixterous]

WHAT THE FUCK!? Originality, where?

-Guilty :ouch:

but if it makes you feel better I appreciate very much YOUR originality!

[Skilzat85X]

NO HANDED SCOOT HERE I COME!

B-Twist stomp ahaha.

Don't do it!

[Nick Fail]

you get stuff like the tricking bible which essentially is a textbook.. much alike "TKT" you get a bunch of people who think in one way... how does this spark creativity???

i know, tkt was uncalled for, it's essentially terminology, but when it comes to the tricks themselves, terminology comes into play " 720, 900 " doesn't matter if it's TKT or whatever method anyone uses.. whatever sounds and looks appealing is whatever someone is going to go for.

td-r is just an appealing move that people will go for :p.

cute

[David M.]

cute

im not hating on TKT or anything..

[furioushaime]

-Guilty :ouch:

but if it makes you feel better I appreciate very much YOUR originality!

hmmm, I wouldn't say you...

I'm NOT going to get into names. But Dan, you're good! Your trampoline sampler is nice. Your ambitrixterousness is impressive! Plus you can pop spin kick, and do the splits, and uh...yeah-you can do just about everything there is!

[David M.]

tell me haime, what do you think of teddy?

[BABYRILLA]

scoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raiz, scoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raizscoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, scoot, cartwheel, touchdown raiz, scoot, valdez, valdez, scoot, touchdown raiz:
full, corck, full, corck, btwist, btwist, btwist, gainer...

backside, backside, backside->

WHAT THE FUCK!? Originality, where?

aerial, aerial, hyper aerial, 540, aerial swtich, aerial , horribly cheated bs10, cartwheel, hyper aerial, jacknife, btwist, aerial, flash, hook, aerial, gms, gms, aerial, aerial switch, cartwheel, flash, hyper aerial, aerial, horribly cheated bs10, random boxcutter, cartwheel, aerial, aerial, aerial, aerial, aerial...fall back jaime, you're just as repetitve and predictable as everyone else. and speaking about originality, there isn't one thing you've done that hasn't been done before - unlike alvin kash. you've always been runner up.

[Safari]

aerial, aerial, hyper aerial, 540, aerial swtich, aerial , horribly cheated bs10, cartwheel, hyper aerial, jacknife, btwist, aerial, flash, hook, aerial, gms, gms, aerial, aerial switch, cartwheel, flash, hyper aerial, aerial, horribly cheated bs10, random boxcutter, cartwheel, aerial, aerial, aerial, aerial, aerial...fall back jaime, you're just as repetitve and predictable as everyone else. and speaking about originality, there isn't one thing you've done that hasn't been done before - unlike alvin kash. you've always been runner up.

At least these are tricks not setups, fool. Repetive yes! But damn he does combos and tricks that are quite difficult..

[BABYRILLA]

At least these are tricks not setups, fool. Repetive yes! But damn he does combos and tricks that are quite difficult..

i'm not even going to respond to this severin cause touchdown raiz , full, cork, and btwist are tricks. so does flow, and he uses scoot and touchdown raiz more than anyone...don't do this to yourself severin, i like you.

[Safari]

i'm not even going to respond to this severin cause touchdown raiz , full, cork, and btwist are tricks

You did just respond to it, man. Full, cork and btwist are tricks yes but in the thread you quoted it only says Cartwheel, td-raiz, valdez and scoot (if it says more I'm sorry).

Why do you draw in those tricks when this is about setups being over used? and wtf are you doing attackin people like that (Haime that is)?

[D.A.]

there isn't one thing you've done that hasn't been done before

This is incorrect and you must know it :eh:

I mean, even I've done things that haven't been done before.

[Safari]

This is incorrect and you must know it :eh:

I mean, even I've done things that haven't been done before.

True, I'm so confused now..

[Xeult]

Yeah, babyrilla, is so fucking wrong on this. Haime has been one of the most influentual trickers in the community for a long while now

[Andy R]

there isn't one thing you've done that hasn't been done before -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8BxSyEI2Bs'
WHO DOES THAT? WHO?

[David M.]

Yeah, babyrilla, is so fucking wrong on this. Haime has been one of the most influentual trickers in the community for a long while now

explain why is it that he is wrong. dont put the fact that you love haime as justification..

[[RozoN]]

explain why is it that he is wrong. dont put the fact that you love haime as justification..

But I love Haime, David! I love him :agony:. But I love you too!

http://www.lovetoeatandtravel.com/Graphics/Online_Store/SF%20Bay%20Area/SF/SF_Heart_Teddybear.jpg

[rocketbaz]

creativity tips? barely anyone uses arashiswipe >_> it's really usefull and is swingable (sessh said it isn't)

hmm... more ppl should use gumbi! i'll try to hang on to the thread but haven't read very much..

[Safari]

;1082724']But I love Haime, David! I love him :agony:. But I love you too!

http://www.lovetoeatandtravel.com/Graphics/Online_Store/SF%20Bay%20Area/SF/SF_Heart_Teddybear.jpg

Dude, I do really like you but this is actually quite serious (This discussion), bro. So keep publicus outta this one please.

[Xeult]

explain why is it that he is wrong. dont put the fact that you love haime as justification..

I thought I stated it in my post! Maybe with shitty grammar, but I hoped people still understood haha. Anyways, once again: Haime has been one of the most influential trickers for a long time now.

EDIT: It's like saying Sessh hasn't contributed anything to the sport. Both have taken comboing to the next level.

[[RozoN]]

Dude, I do really like you but this is actually quite serious (This discussion), bro. So keep publicus outta this one please.

Sorry :sad:

[Skippy]

I thought I stated it in my post! Maybe with shitty grammar, but I hoped people still understood haha. Anyways, once again: Haime has been one of the most influential trickers for a long time now.

EDIT: It's like saying Sessh hasn't contributed anything to the sport. Both have taken comboing to the next level.


Although this is true, it could be argued that Haime is repetitive as Gorilla said. Just because someone contributes doesn't mean they're not repetitive which is ofcourse what this thread is about =]

I personally do not think Haime is repetitive, he's one of my favourite trickers and I think he's very creative. But you know, I'm jus' sayin'.

[Matt R]

all back jaime, you're just as repetitve and predictable as everyone else. and speaking about originality, there isn't one thing you've done that hasn't been done before - unlike alvin kash. you've always been runner up.


Your a fucking tool. Unlike Alvin Kash Chan, Jaime has always been around for the tricking scene and helping people even when cocks like you post their ignorant opinion.

Jaime does hard, clean tricks in consistent combos. If thats repetitive, then fuck I guess trickings repetitive. Not only that but he has style, which most trickers now lack.

Come back when you have an opinion worth a fuck :good:

[Xeult]

...they're not repetitive which is ofcourse what this thread is about =]

When did that happen?

Haime is fucking creative with his combos. That's all there is to be said to prove babyrilla wrong

[BABYRILLA]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8BxSyEI2Bs'
WHO DOES THAT? WHO?

prodigy does that...but first and foremost that has manny brown all over it. and don't compare haime to sessh...they are both excellent trickers, but no one has done what sessh has done - we wouldn't be doing bs tricks if it had not been for him, and that hyper aerial jaime does all the time was done by sessh about two years ago. jaime started doing that about a year ago. sessh was the first person i've ever seen do a wrapthru full - which is beginning to be very prominent now. haime has done combinations that i believe no one else has done, but those are with moves that have already been handed out to him, he hasn't created anything completely new. take that little psin thing people are doing out of tricks now, waterboy and ca were the first to really do it, but sessh was the one who used it creatively in combinations, now there are quite a few people doing it - just look at nate p's edit of loopkicks camp, or ask the guys at bergen. severin knows what i'm talking about.

[Xeult]

Severin, what is he talking about?

EDIT: Fine, I'll admit it was a bit overboard comparing Haime to sessh, but your point still doesn't hold ground. You were whining about Haime being uncreative, but now you're admitting he's done combinations you haven't seen anyone else do. Contradictory much? And as for the fact he didn't invent any new tricks, well, this thread isn't about that anyways!

[Dragonic MiKe]

All this hating on Haime is making me furious.

lol, see what I did?

But seriously he's one of the most talented and creative tricksters out there.

[Dragonic MiKe]

haime has done combinations that i believe no one else has done, but those are with moves that have already been handed out to him, he hasn't created anything completely new.

"Vincent Van Gogh is rubbish. He painted quite well but he was only using existing colours. He didn't even invent any of his own!"

[Matt R]

WORTHLESS BULLSHIT

Every post just cements your stupidity, as does your complete lack of grammar and punctuation. Who cares if Haime wasnt the first person to do a hyper aerial? He made it accessable to the tricking community, he used it more in new combos.

And not to forgot, people havnt just been creating new moves in the past year. What about when Jaime was doing double leg twists and 1080's and raiz-corks in 2002/2003? Or combo-ing cheat 720 twists? Or being the leader of one of the most prominent and friendly, tricking teams.

You seem to forget wev been watching Haime trick for over 5 years so maybe in your blinkered view he has got repetitive. But how long has sesh been around for? 2years? What about Alvin Kash Chan? A whole 2 samplers I believe he released.

Stop slabbering shit.

[BABYRILLA]

Severin, what is he talking about?

EDIT: Fine, I'll admit it was a bit overboard comparing Haime to sessh, but your point still doesn't hold ground. You were whining about Haime being uncreative, but now you're admitting he's done combinations you haven't seen anyone else do. Contradictory much? And as for the fact he didn't invent any new tricks, well, this thread isn't about that anyways!

stuff like that (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N_ZrWgilzE), at 1:33. just look at the stuff he does in this. and severin...shit, you're a beast, just thought i'd throw that out there. and sessh has been tricking longer than anybody who is currently tricking, he just hasn't been a part of this community until relatively recent.

[Dragonic MiKe]

stuff like that (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N_ZrWgilzE), at 1:33. just look at the stuff he does in this. and severin...shit, you're a beast, just thought i'd throw that out there. and sessh has been tricking longer than anybody who is currently tricking, he just hasn't been a part of this community until relatively recent.

Wasn't flow the first to throw that spinny thing into combos?

Either way it's not exactly the pinnacle of creative brilliance.

[D.A.]

stuff like that (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N_ZrWgilzE), at 1:33. just look at the stuff he does in this.
Florian did the tiki spin first. Bboys did that before him. I'm just pointing that out.
And why are you comparing Sesshoumaru and Jaime Colon? My knees are pickles your argument is invalid.

edit: D. Mike is hilarious
*bites towels' post*

[Flowers]

HAHHAHA Mike!


furious

when is your next sampler btw



I'm not involved in this drama

[Matt K]

Nate, you're fighting an uphill battle here.

[ktnumbuh1]

All this hating on Haime is making me furious.

lol, see what I did?




That made me lol hard.... I don't even know why >< haha

[ryanreMpfer]

Wow babyzilla... in my book you don't exist anymore. I now put you in the same category as team SF. No actually you are worse then team SF.

[BABYRILLA]

Wow babyzilla... in my book you don't exist anymore. I now put you in the same category as team SF. No actually you are worse then team SF.

suck a dick ryan...oh, and this isn't nathan

[Ryan Murray]

Wut?

[Skilzat85X]

It's Anubis again.

[Ryan Murray]

How did he get Nate's username? This troubles me greatly because he is my pal among pals and I don't want people getting the wrong idea.

[BABYRILLA]

It's Anubis again.

u can't stop me...i the embodiment of all the bullshit that's is on TT, minus the goatse

[Skippy]

Plus comme your spelling and grammar is the embodiment of bullshit.

[BABYRILLA]

u can't stop me...i the embodiment of all the bullshit that's is on TT, minus the goatse

could it be that i'm typing like that on purpose dumbass...

[Matt K]

How did he get Nate's username? This troubles me greatly because he is my pal among pals and I don't want people getting the wrong idea.

Yes, Nate is un saint whom I <3

[BboyAgua]

I fucking KNEW you weren't babyrilla. No one I have met personally is as fucking stupid as Anubis. I can't wait to encounter this all-time-low in person.

[Skippy]

could it be that i'm typing like that on purpose dumbass...

Look if you want to on purposely put yourself across as this;


http://www.erichufschmid.net/Dumb-down/super-retard.JPG


Then be my guest. Besides if you're doing it on purpose there is no need for a retaliating statement if I'm only stating the obvious.

[BboyAgua]

Skippy I love you long time^^

[Skippy]

I fucking KNEW you weren't babyrilla.

DETECTIVE SCROTES WAS ON THE CASE ALL ALONG.

I love you long time too Agua =]

...you little shnuckum izzle wizzle bizzly pork pie you :']

[TiVo]

Anubis...You are an annoying fuck. Go do some freerunning instead, while we do our manly tricks.

[Safari]

stuff like that (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N_ZrWgilzE), at 1:33. just look at the stuff he does in this. and severin...shit, you're a beast, just thought i'd throw that out there. and sessh has been tricking longer than anybody who is currently tricking, he just hasn't been a part of this community until relatively recent.

Anubis, man.. What's up with this? You can't compare these two trickers because they are totally different in tricking style and are most likely influenced by different persons which is also a factor that defines how you trick.. Thanks for thinking that I'm a beast but that's pretty much off-topic..

[dpitlock]

dan votes for more mayonase friendsa

[BABYRILLA]

Anubis, man.. What's up with this? You can't compare these two trickers because they are totally different in tricking style and are most likely influenced by different persons which is also a factor that defines how you trick.. Thanks for thinking that I'm a beast but that's pretty much off-topic..

you being a beast is always on topic. what's off topic is me asking you about catherine.

[Safari]

you being a beast is always on topic. what's off topic is me asking you about catherine.

What is there to ask about us that people don't allready know?

[MCLAYISONFIRE]

Anubis, man.. What's up with this? You can't compare these two trickers because they are totally different in tricking style and are most likely influenced by different persons which is also a factor that defines how you trick.. Thanks for thinking that I'm a beast but that's pretty much off-topic..

you being a beast is always on topic. what's off topic is me asking you about catherine.

GET THERE SAFARI!! *POWER THRUST*

[Safari]

It' obvious that you are trying to mindfuck me man, and it would probably have worked 2 months ago but I still don't get you... One second you're atleast trying to be on-topic and int the next you are totally off. Probably because you don't have any comments to throw on-topic.

First you are comparin Haime's tricks to fcking setups and beginner moves. (Which proves that you don't have a clue about what tricking is), then you compare him to Sesshoumaru which is totally unrealistic because they're two different persons and tricked in different environments, Suddenly out of no where I'm a beast (Which I ofc appreciate that people think) and then you drag my ex-girlfriend into this? Where is the logic?

[BABYRILLA]

It' obvious that you are trying to mindfuck me man, and it would probably have worked 2 months ago but I still don't get you... One second you're atleast trying to be on-topic and int the next you are totally off. Probably because you don't have any comments to throw on-topic.

First you are comparin Haime's tricks to fcking setups and beginner moves. (Which proves that you don't have a clue about what tricking is), then you compare him to Sesshoumaru which is totally unrealistic because they're two different persons and tricked in different environments, Suddenly out of no where I'm a beast (Which I ofc appreciate that people think) and then you drag my ex-girlfriend into this? Where is the logic?

it's confusing isn't it? just like trying to follow this thread (http://trickstutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52038).

[Safari]

it's confusing isn't it? just like trying to follow this thread (http://trickstutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52038).

Well that's true.. But what Dan does that you don't is that his spam is fun, your spam is just bad.

And it's not really confusing you're just ruining good threads.

[BABYRILLA]

it's confusing isn't it? just like trying to follow this thread (http://trickstutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52038).

wanna stay off of my account?

[Safari]

Is the real babyrilla back now?

[Urahara]

you get stuff like the tricking bible which essentially is a textbook.. much alike "TKT" you get a bunch of people who think in one way... how does this spark creativity???

i know, tkt was uncalled for, it's essentially terminology, but when it comes to the tricks themselves, terminology comes into play " 720, 900 " doesn't matter if it's TKT or whatever method anyone uses.. whatever sounds and looks appealing is whatever someone is going to go for.

td-r is just an appealing move that people will go for :p.

the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis does not apply to tricking

and since the tricking bible has more moves in it than "scoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, valdez, backside" your argument is invaild.

your post has no place in this thread, the only way your thoughts can have any validity is if you are suggesting we do away with all forms of terminology completely, thus every trick is new and creative since it has never been described before, that however is stupid.

"we should do away with (insert non english language here), we already have English, and thats perfectly good for describing every thing that happens, who needs any other language"

your post has no place in this discussion

Hmmm...
I know tricking can be about doing what feels good. Also about just having fun, or doing what you want...
:blah blah:
To me, it's about not being concerned of what other people think, but rather to do what feels natural for you. So I understand we trick for different reasons.
For me, it being an art form. Something that I do to be as different from the group as possible. Even if I'm doing the same moves or combos as everyone else, I have a different style to it. Speed, power, fluidity, aggressiveness, or lack of all-> I do everything I do with a style that is my own, that no one can copy. Every time I trick I try harder to be a better "Jaime".
I "take or steal" transitions and moves from others, but add them to my style in a way that people won't easily mimic.

I don't want to preach or be strong on the nostalgia and shit, but the older samplers had this flavor to them. Style and finesse, and sometimes (more so than now), creativity. I'm usually highly supportive, I rarely rant. Mainly because it doesn't really do anything. BUT FUCK!!! Samplers are getting kind of boring...
>more to come>

p.s.
And I know I suck at twisting and swing throughs. Your argument is invalid, my hair is an ostrich.
Devon, nice monkey.

the weird thing about creativity is that something that is creative value of any individual move is inversely proportional to the amount of time (the creative value last longer if the move is more difficult) a graph would look somthing like this: CVt = -t(1/D) + CV0, examples are the scoot, and for something more difficult your hyper aerial, no one could figure out scoot for a few months/weeks when they first showed up and look where we are same with your hyper aerial, cept as compared to your scoot its still pretty rare.

as far as combos, there is endless room for creativity, but any indiviual creative combo/transtition will still follow the CVt = -t(1/D) + CV0 thing.

so as far as creativity goes, style is the fountain of youth, watching trickers like kjer, jeremy, crazy asian, gdong, sessh, devon, tervor, and your self(note this list is far from complete, also in no particular order) is no matter what they do, their rhythm, power and personal quirks(no ones hook kick is the same) makes that combo stand out.

i agree with you on the feel of older samplers, but for all my efforts i have been unable to come up with any reason (outside of the fact that tricking was newer then, hence more new moves) that olders samplers are any better than newer samplers. if yellowboy came out today would his b twist 540 hook aerial really be that hot?

another thing to consider is perspective, their are more trickers now than ever before, and not every one of them can be creative, their are plently of creavtive trickers training now, but not all of them are releasing videos. and when you watch olders videos, do you watch all the old videos, i cant be sure but im guessing you watched the videos you thought were good, where as when viewing current videos you have no idea if its gonna be the next manny brown, or cork swing fest 17.



NO HANDED SCOOT HERE I COME!

http://www.divshare.com/download/3434365-c77

aerial, aerial, hyper aerial, 540, aerial swtich, aerial , horribly cheated bs10, cartwheel, hyper aerial, jacknife, btwist, aerial, flash, hook, aerial, gms, gms, aerial, aerial switch, cartwheel, flash, hyper aerial, aerial, horribly cheated bs10, random boxcutter, cartwheel, aerial, aerial, aerial, aerial, aerial...fall back jaime, you're just as repetitve and predictable as everyone else. and speaking about originality, there isn't one thing you've done that hasn't been done before - unlike alvin kash. you've always been runner up.

everyone is repetitive, haime releases more videos, so its more visable, kash was repetitive with his moves, granted no one else did them at the time, (alot like haime) but he was still repetitive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8BxSyEI2Bs'
WHO DOES THAT? WHO?

bubba, gainer axe but still, im not saying haime isnt creative but that was a bad example.

Florian did the tiki spin first. Bboys did that before him. I'm just pointing that out.
And why are you comparing Sesshoumaru and Jaime Colon? My knees are pickles your argument is invalid.

edit: D. Mike is hilarious
*bites towels' post*
your wining this thread devon

[Urahara]

DEAR GOD MY POST IS MASSIVE
TLDR: monkey flailing at random in a gym for an infinite amount of time will almost surely preform any given combo

[Urahara]

in before no one posts after me

[Trixter]

I have no idea what a valdez is. I suck at kicks but everyone in my gym is trying corks at the moment... lots are able now and I just want a jackknife haha! But I can do scoot cork lololol

[wi boo]

prodigy does that...but first and foremost that has manny brown all over it. and don't compare haime to sessh...they are both excellent trickers, but no one has done what sessh has done - we wouldn't be doing bs tricks if it had not been for him, and that hyper aerial jaime does all the time was done by sessh about two years ago. jaime started doing that about a year ago. sessh was the first person i've ever seen do a wrapthru full - which is beginning to be very prominent now. haime has done combinations that i believe no one else has done, but those are with moves that have already been handed out to him, he hasn't created anything completely new. take that little psin thing people are doing out of tricks now, waterboy and ca were the first to really do it, but sessh was the one who used it creatively in combinations, now there are quite a few people doing it - just look at nate p's edit of loopkicks camp, or ask the guys at bergen. severin knows what i'm talking about.

Of course Haime didn't invent those moves, the one's that your bashing him for Anubis.

I think what Jaime is saying is that, every single sampler released is of people who do cartwheel after cartwheel and scoot after scoot, etc. rarely do people do more creative combos and moves. There is a whole plethora of other moves and other ways of doing combos, and Jaime is saying that "why not try those new things" instead of doing what everybody else is doing.

Scoots, cartwheels, valdezs' etc. ARE NOT BAD.

I personally don't see many people doing what Jaime is doing with his combos, I'm not saying he's the only one doing these types of combos, BUT how many samplers are out there with the same exact moves, and transitions as almost everyother samp?

Btw im not bashing anyone, I think its badass, these samps and such, and I respect watching peoples samplers, cause well they worked hard for what we see on video.

Be creative!!!!!! is the message here, think outside the scoot.

[Skippy]

I have no idea what a valdez is. I suck at kicks but everyone in my gym is trying corks at the moment... lots are able now and I just want a jackknife haha! But I can do scoot cork lololol

Like a one handed slanty backhandspring thing.

[wi boo]

Oh yeah and I think perhaps you feel that Jaime is saying about scoots and cartwheels, etc. is condescending and that maybe why your bringing up some of your points is because you feel this way.

As far as I know, from what I've heard, and the way he acts on the forums, he doesn't seem like the egotistical, superior thinking, condescending type. So I feel your comments and posts don't have merit.

[D.A.]

TLDR: monkey flailing at random in a gym for an infinite amount of time will almost surely preform any given combo

HAHAHHAAA HA AHAAA!
YEEEEAAAAASSSS!

[Matt R]

To be honest anyone arguing or disagreeing with Jaime is wrong.

End.

[Anima]

Wait, did Babyrilla or what ever his username is get his account hacked? Or is he just like this?

[Andy R]

babyrilla: haime is repetative and not creative
everyone: no you are wrong and a dumbass
babyrilla: this isnt babyrilla!

[dpitlock]

WRAP THRU FULLS HAVE BEEN AROUND SINCE 2003

[David M.]

the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis does not apply to tricking

and since the tricking bible has more moves in it than "scoot, touchdown raiz, cartwheel, valdez, backside" your argument is invaild.

No. in short i wasnt talking about that. i was talking about creativity. if you have a bunch of people making tutorials for fuckiing btwist s/t gainer, when will people figure things out and essentially use their minds for themselves?? they wont, they will have 1 way thinkers who are DEPENDANT on others, and will look to OTHERS for ideas. hence combo stealing, over use of corks, etc.

your post has no place in this thread, the only way your thoughts can have any validity is if you are suggesting we do away with all forms of terminology completely, thus every trick is new and creative since it has never been described before, that however is stupid.

what i meant by terminology was.. it really does matter what the "proper" degree of rotation for a kick is.. people will be attracted to it. so if its a c1440 but in TKT is a "900" people will still go for it.

im not really going to get into any arguements, but really i have every right to be in this thread. i'm just so sorry you misread or misunderstood what my point was.



"we should do away with (insert non english language here), we already have English, and thats perfectly good for describing every thing that happens, who needs any other language"

your post has no place in this discussion

wow thats not what i said at all. haha. you make it sound like im enforcing terminology on others when really i said nothing about such things..

[Skilzat85X]

they wont, they will have 1 way thinkers who are DEPENDANT on others, and will look to OTHERS for ideas. hence combo stealing, over use of corks, etc.

Oh dang, this is a verrrry interesting line of thought if you ask me haha.

In general I agree with your theory, however, I will say that people are dependent on others when they're first learning about tricking.

In reality, all the knowledge we have always comes from another source, or another person. So there going to have to get ideas somewhere, I wouldn't say it's wrong to gain inspiration from a specific thing you see someone else does anyways.

For example, when I see Sessh do a front sweep into a knee spin, I say, oh gawd yes I'm going to do that. It's awesome! Of course, I shouldn't abuse this or overuse it or blah blah, but that's getting off the subject...

Anyways, I guess the point I'm making is that there's absolutely nothing wrong with laying a solid foundation of knowledge by reading up on what others have to say while one is still inexperienced, relatively speaking of course. Of course, later on, when they reach tricking "maturity" they should be able to think of things for themselves.
And even then, there's nothing wrong with wanting to use an idea that you think is just awesome that you've seen someone else do, as long as you aren't being a fool about it (straying from the subject again haha).

Also, this post is directly in response to yours, David. I don't want people to think I'm arguing against the "repetitive tricking" argument made at the outset of the thread.

[David M.]

it's hard for people to think for things themselves at the point of "tricking maturity" when in all their "life" they've been handed all this info on a silver platter.

which is why I don't agree on tutorials... not attacking you or anything by that skilz.

especially when people are making tutorials for advanced moves.. like double cork and sutff. these are things that the mind must interperet itself and come to conclusion on how to do it.. know what i mean??

example:

person A thinks of td raiz as a scoot from a weird set up, person B thinks of td raiz as a backhandspring from a different set up.

now if they went out and tried it with the technical theory they thought up themselves, will the two different attempts look the same?? ofcourse its all very subjective, but in the end, no, because of this creative thinking (using a scoot as a comparsin to tdraiz) the move in turn will look different, and have a different style.

if any of that makes any sense at all ^^^^^ im rather tired too. so tomorrow if you dont understand i will just rephrase.

goodnight all xox.

[Skilzat85X]

Hmm, I agree with you somewhat and disagree somewhat...interesting haha. You can be sure I understand what you're saying.

I'll address each component individually.
especially when people are making tutorials for advanced moves.. like double cork and sutff. these are things that the mind must interperet itself and come to conclusion on how to do it.. know what i mean??
I agree!
I don't necessarily think tutorials for advanced moves shouldn't be made. However, I think these tutorials should teach people to apply concepts and knowledge from their prereqs, as well as come to a reasonable conclusion for themselves. (It just so happens that, almost nobody does this. haha) I might touch on this a little later...

person A thinks of td raiz as a scoot from a weird set up, person B thinks of td raiz as a backhandspring from a different set up.

now if they went out and tried it with the technical theory they thought up themselves, will the two different attempts look the same?? ofcourse its all very subjective, but in the end, no, because of this creative thinking (using a scoot as a comparsin to tdraiz) the move in turn will look different, and have a different style.

Hmm, interesting indeed. I'd say it's quite circumstancial.

Often times, I'll see people say "oh treat this move like this." A methodology I may not think correct. And then when they do the move, they end up not quite doing what they're saying they're doing at all haha. Sometimes two methods of visualization can lead to the same thing, regardless of if one is right or wrong, or if they're both right.
Mostly because people often do things they don't know they're doing, or that they think they're doing. This isn't bad of course, one doesn't always have to understand everything they're doing to do it. I doubt Anis, Ott, Sessh, etc etc got where they are by reading tutorials, lol.

Also on this subject, I believe the same technique can still have many styles of execution.
They may follow the same basic sequence of events, e.g. the 540, setup > turn > lift leg > jump > kick > spin a little > land. I mean of course there's a little bit more to the steps than that ahaha, but in reality that's all technique is. Style of execution though, adds for almost infinite variability.
I mean, to successfully complete a trick, there are just a sequence of steps that have to be done to completion, and that's all. But how are you going to execute them?
How high are you going to lift your leading leg in a 540?
How deep is your chamber going to be in a 540?
Which kind of kick are you going to through in a 540?
Are you going to wrap after you kick through your 540, or just land naturally?
Are your arms going to be higher or lower, away from the body or closer in your 540?
How are you going to tuck your back leg in the 540?

In reality tricking techniques are based off of loose yet fundamental common principles of technique, and then once you can do them, you can basically do them however haha. Technique is not limiting, and if someone teaches that technique does limit diversity, then they don't understand it well enough, in my humble opinion.
This is why I personally encourage the teaching of principles and concepts, as well as thinking about questions and asking questions, and such and so forth.

[Dragonic MiKe]

I like reading your posts, Skilzat. You always make much sense. :smile:

[Urahara]

anyone heard dan prez teach spining flips?

in after a gross misunderstanding of everything i said

[Less than Dan]

Hmm, I agree with you somewhat and disagree somewhat...interesting haha. You can be sure I understand what you're saying.

I'll address each component individually.

I agree!
I don't necessarily think tutorials for advanced moves shouldn't be made. However, I think these tutorials should teach people to apply concepts and knowledge from their prereqs, as well as come to a reasonable conclusion for themselves. (It just so happens that, almost nobody does this. haha) I might touch on this a little later...

Hmm, interesting indeed. I'd say it's quite circumstancial.

Often times, I'll see people say "oh treat this move like this." A methodology I may not think correct. And then when they do the move, they end up not quite doing what they're saying they're doing at all haha. Sometimes two methods of visualization can lead to the same thing, regardless of if one is right or wrong, or if they're both right.
Mostly because people often do things they don't know they're doing, or that they think they're doing. This isn't bad of course, one doesn't always have to understand everything they're doing to do it. I doubt Anis, Ott, Sessh, etc etc got where they are by reading tutorials, lol.

Also on this subject, I believe the same technique can still have many styles of execution.
They may follow the same basic sequence of events, e.g. the 540, setup > turn > lift leg > jump > kick > spin a little > land. I mean of course there's a little bit more to the steps than that ahaha, but in reality that's all technique is. Style of execution though, adds for almost infinite variability.
I mean, to successfully complete a trick, there are just a sequence of steps that have to be done to completion, and that's all. But how are you going to execute them?
How high are you going to lift your leading leg in a 540?
How deep is your chamber going to be in a 540?
Which kind of kick are you going to through in a 540?
Are you going to wrap after you kick through your 540, or just land naturally?
Are your arms going to be higher or lower, away from the body or closer in your 540?
How are you going to tuck your back leg in the 540?

In reality tricking techniques are based off of loose yet fundamental common principles of technique, and then once you can do them, you can basically do them however haha. Technique is not limiting, and if someone teaches that technique does limit diversity, then they don't understand it well enough, in my humble opinion.
This is why I personally encourage the teaching of principles and concepts, as well as thinking about questions and asking questions, and such and so forth.

I thought I told you to settle the fuck down, bro

[furioushaime]

Of course Haime didn't invent those moves, the one's that your bashing him for Anubis.

I think what Jaime is saying is that, every single sampler released is of people who do cartwheel after cartwheel and scoot after scoot, etc. rarely do people do more creative combos and moves. There is a whole plethora of other moves and other ways of doing combos, and Jaime is saying that "why not try those new things" instead of doing what everybody else is doing.

Scoots, cartwheels, valdezs' etc. ARE NOT BAD.

I personally don't see many people doing what Jaime is doing with his combos, I'm not saying he's the only one doing these types of combos, BUT how many samplers are out there with the same exact moves, and transitions as almost everyother samp?

Btw im not bashing anyone, I think its badass, these samps and such, and I respect watching peoples samplers, cause well they worked hard for what we see on video.

Be creative!!!!!! is the message here, think outside the scoot.

exactly...

[Urahara]

No. in short i wasnt talking about that. i was talking about creativity. if you have a bunch of people making tutorials for fuckiing btwist s/t gainer, when will people figure things out and essentially use their minds for themselves?? they wont, they will have 1 way thinkers who are DEPENDANT on others, and will look to OTHERS for ideas. hence combo stealing, over use of corks, etc.

"your right, no one should help each other with moves, cause everyone needs to figure it out for them selfs."

it doesnt matter how creative someone is, if they don't learn the basics it wont matter, you can have the greatest most creative idea in your head, but if you cant pull off the move it doesn't matter, so i fail to see how things such as tutorials and the tricking bible are detrimental to the creativity of trickers.

also tkt is useful in the sence that it describes what happens in a move instead of just some random name everyone agreed on, think the use of brand names and generic names for medications.

i apologize for coming across as a jackass, i mean no hate towards you :tongue:

[furioushaime]

Teddy is great to answer the question.

And so is Chris, and Mclay and Skelton, plus Anis and all the Brazilians etc...

[brandonn]

sorry mate if it weren't for td raiz we wouldn't have mclean's pop 9 snapu or a boxcutter double or....etcetc

also scoot>valdez> swing combos are awesome

[Skilzat85X]

also tkt is useful in the sence that it describes what happens in a move instead of just some random name everyone agreed on, think the use of brand names and generic names for medications.

I wouldn't say that knowing the name will help you do it to any capacity haha.

In fact, I think that, with an open mind, current tricking pop kicking (rhymes) naming conventions will help someone better execute a trick.

WHY DO I SAY THIS?

Because, current naming conventions are based on the rotation from points A to B.
A) Setup stance.
B) Landing stance.
(Of course, the rotations are still approximate, and named by the ideal version of the trick.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIIZPyhxZsQ
Have a gander at Sessh's beautifully executed pop tricks.

He plants one foot at a time into the setup, thus positioning his feet and body into a standard sideways stance (relative to the target), while positioning the rest of his body to gather momentum for the trick.
And by regular naming conventions, here starts 0 degrees.
Now let's take say the 720.

From the 0 degrees, he jumps into the trick while rotating, goes into the air, spins once to face the target, and kicks. Then, the non-kicking leg comes down, and the kicking leg continues it's arch, coming down on the other side of his body, back to the same direction as he was facing in the original stance. (Note, from this stance, he can execute another pop trick...think about that, and how it can relate...)

And there we have 720 degrees from the beginning stance to the landing stance.
What about the 900? It's similar, this time, the non-kicking leg comes down already facing 720 degrees or a little over as it touches, and in order for the kicking leg to come down with the body balanced, the body pivots approximately another 180 degrees, give or take, into the stance opposite the one he started in. (Note, from this stance, he can execute a backside trick...think about that, and how it can relate...)

When I finally realized why these tricks have their awkward numerical pop names, I was sorta relieved at how easy it made the concept of actually doing these.

If people get it out of their heads that they have to spin a certain amount in the air, and that instead they have to get into a stance, takeoff from this stance, do the rotation and kick, and land in either that stance or the opposite stance (thus, achieving an "even" [360 incremental] or "odd" [180 incremental] rotation), it tells them what they have to do from start to finish.

None of this, "make sure you spin this much in the air" crap, and especially no "takeoff facing behind you" or "try to takeoff facing this way" crap.

It's just stance to stance.

[furioushaime]

Well, Hans taught me how to hyper ariel in 2005. Han's learned them around that time. (2004/2005) So I've been doing them for much more than a year. Ariel axe-arielswitch was taught to me by Manny Brown in 2004. Most of my transitions were taught to me by the tricker who created it, in person. I didn't really say I created anything, I was implying that I'm being creative with my combos, by using transitions that are a bit harder to do and adding techniques that aren't thrown much. I like doing rare, and unusual techniques. They happen to be ariel techniques...
Urahara...No one has done ariel axe-tornado-gainer flash. (It was a good example.) I still love you though.
Damn I'm just second rate unlike Alvin Kash....Waaaahhh~ :sad:
I always knew I was, I didn't compare myself to the best. You did.

Yeah Anubis failed in his argument, but yes still I'm pissed about it. So Anubis, congratulations! You win, you pissed me off!

Matt R., I don't know if it's you or someone using your name, but thanks to whoever it was, plus everyone else. To the Swedish and Aussie trickers, I've always shown you guys nothing but love, you should know this...
Actually it'd be great to see you guys mix a few more "creative" combos with your amazing swing through techniques.
-I'm sure you'd guys love to see me get more inverted, swing through and twist more. That's kind of my motive here...
Also to every other tricker, you guys are spending a lot more energy and time into tricking. Plus you guys understand it more because you have such a huge amount you can study. Use your resources, learn from them, and be different! (What this generation lacks are people who think outside the -box-)
You're definitely upping the difficulty but I'd like to see style. Style beats difficulty in my book.

[furioushaime]

sorry mate if it weren't for td raiz we wouldn't have mclean's pop 9 snapu or a boxcutter double or....etcetc

also scoot>valdez> swing combos are awesome

Yeah we would, James Yu did shuriken boxcutter without td raiz.
The "pop 9 snapu" was a backside spin. It was cool, but definitely not a "pop".

Yeah new school terminology is ridiculous.

Damn, Skilzat's posts are amazing!

[Andy R]

sorry mate if it weren't for td raiz we wouldn't have mclean's pop 9 snapu or a boxcutter double

hocine did boxcutter tripple from a raiz :dead:

[Ryan Murray]

hocine did boxcutter tripple from a raiz :dead:

Well he's French.

And Super Saiyan, so not really an appropriate example.

[jan]

Sorry for reviving this thread, but this is hilarious :D

prodigy does that...but first and foremost that has manny brown all over it. and don't compare haime to sessh...they are both excellent trickers, but no one has done what sessh has done - we wouldn't be doing bs tricks if it had not been for him, and that hyper aerial jaime does all the time was done by sessh about two years ago. jaime started doing that about a year ago. sessh was the first person i've ever seen do a wrapthru full - which is beginning to be very prominent now. haime has done combinations that i believe no one else has done, but those are with moves that have already been handed out to him, he hasn't created anything completely new. take that little psin thing people are doing out of tricks now, waterboy and ca were the first to really do it, but sessh was the one who used it creatively in combinations, now there are quite a few people doing it - just look at nate p's edit of loopkicks camp, or ask the guys at bergen. severin knows what i'm talking about.

I did hyper aerial right after TO '05, and I'm not even Sessh. AWLAWL

[BrandonLenz]

Yo we could turn this into a pop kicks thread where everyone post their kicks in order to save tricking from the non kicks.

[n3m3s1s]

. Style beats difficulty in my book.

:good: And I agree on the swedes. They are awesome, but I'd love to see more creative stuff. Like that night at BG when sessh showed people som stuff, those combos was so cool!

EDIT: I love swedes, just used them as an example...

And LOL@Jan

[TKD_Andy]

raiz-cork variations.

you've basically summed up all footage of crazyasian from the past year, which is a shame.

[erufukami]

Ohhhhhh... blasphemy. BLASPHEMY!!!! SMITE HIM!

Okay, seriously this has gone too far. Jaime's original post was a bit exaggerated, yes... but definitely getting the message across.

The "sport" being bigger should only make it MORE creative. In the past few years it HAS made it more creative. However, I also think that samplers are just getting boring now because everyone wants to do the same thing. Style is taking a back seat to power.

Kick tricks being harder to obtain.... yeah. That's why I give so much respect to tricksters that do them. What's needed is a even balance. Style, power, and control. Rudy Reynon... the guy is CLEEEEEAAAAAAAN, he's K.Y. jelly fast, and I can only imagine what goes on in his head when he thinks up combos and variations. All that and the guy STILL does Snapu > s/t? Fuck yes!

[BboyAgua]

you've basically summed up all footage of crazyasian from the past year, which is a shame.

Footage maybe... but his tricks are UNBELIEVABLY creative and mind shattering.

[D.A.]

Yeah I don't know why Andy said that. Perhaps he has not seen these videos:

http://trickstutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52724
2:30 and 2:56
Especially this one!
http://trickstutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51520

In terms of both combos and single tricks, James Yu is one of the most creative trickers out that at the moment. No one else can do some of the things he does. Like, there are literally some things he does that no one else can replicate. That's being pretty creative if you ask me.

[Siphin]

i know what you are saying haime.. we need to become more well rounded.. we're no better than the people who prefer a backtuck over anything..

yes corkscrews look cool.. and cart-fulls but to what extent..

[TiVo]

Yeah I don't know why Andy said that. Perhaps he has not seen these videos:

http://trickstutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52724
2:30 and 2:56
Especially this one!
http://trickstutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51520

In terms of both combos and single tricks, James Yu is one of the most creative trickers out that at the moment. No one else can do some of the things he does. Like, there are literally some things he does that no one else can replicate. That's being pretty creative if you ask me.

I too agree. It's just ignorant to assume that James only asset is his raiz cork variations when he is definately more than that. Devon is right on this. You should definately watch samplers more closely from now on especially with the CA in it.

[TKD_Andy]

Footage maybe... but his tricks are UNBELIEVABLY creative and mind shattering.

i know man, hence why i want to see vids of it.

also, his "crazy asian is just a gymnast" video was incredible, and more like it should be made.

MANY MORE.

-----

the point i was making wasnt intended for hate in any way for CA, it just seems that all the recent footage of him has pretty much always included the standard hook-raiz-cork (or cork variation) in every combo. Perhaps this is just a misconception based on selective editing.

[TricksterBee]

I like tumbling

[BboyAgua]

Tumbling is bad. And you should feel bad for liking it.

[furioushaime]

i know man, hence why i want to see vids of it.

also, his "crazy asian is just a gymnast" video was incredible, and more like it should be made.

MANY MORE.

-----

the point i was making wasnt intended for hate in any way for CA, it just seems that all the recent footage of him has pretty much always included the standard hook-raiz-cork (or cork variation) in every combo. Perhaps this is just a misconception based on selective editing.

It's true man...

James has been relying on his raiz-cork stuff too much.
:dead:

[Safari]

I agree... But CA can do so much more! I know he can!!!

[Source]

Tumbling is bad. And you should feel bad for liking it.

Bahahahah.
YES.

[TKD_Andy]

It's true man...

James has been relying on his raiz-cork stuff too much.
:dead:

haha to be fair though every raiz-cork is absolutely perfect in his execution. Just becuase he doesn't do what we want him to do doesnt mean he's bad etc.

next time you see him tell him to encorporate more basic kicks in his combos, do more jacknifes and get a raiz-1260.

and give him a hug from me :smile: