Backside

[Nick Fail]

BEFORE I START: I'm making this thread NOT to cause an arguement but to shed light on the reason why I see Backside as useful

Backside is nothing more than:
1. A learning tool-All backside kicks are the in-air spin to a cheat kick. If you can do a 540 round kick (BS9) then you can do a cheat 720 Round (Cheat 9). Also any W/T kick is a BS kick off of one leg. Same as a swing through kick. Prodigy does Tornado S/T kick variation ALL THE TIME. If you say BS is shit then your saying his combos are shit. Say that to his face.

2. A combo tool-Say you do any kinda inside hyper move or dleg move and dont wanna restep to continue the combo. You can pop or punch right into a backside kick to keep going.

3. Another form of kicks-Backside kicks are the exact opposite of pop kicks. To say that backside is shit, is to say that all pop tricks are shit. The exact mirror of a pop 540 hook (pop7) is a 540 round (BS9). your missing out on the exact other half of the pop kicking system.

Anyone whos watched any of the bigger trickers sees backside kicks incorp. in the whole of they're tricking game. Is it possible they see the value of BS kicks. Also dont call BS kicks huge names when they're not. A BS 10 is a 720 spin with a hook. If anything else call it by its true spin hell say BS 720. A 360 with a hook kick is the BS 720 now. Why? Theres nothing 720 about it. Call that a BS 360. The reason why i say "use BS" is because common terminology wont allow for you to say 720 hook because there already is one. so start by just calling it a BS 720. Seems fair to me. Theres no 3 spins about it.

what the fuck. please ppl stop making threads with backside tricks involved anymore -.-

It saddens me to see you say this because of such a useful thing BS tricks are. They're good for combos, good for learning and good for diversity. I disagree with the names because they should have never been made to be a higher spin then they are as i said before. Anyone who refuses to use backside tricks is losing out on a good 30% of kicking tricks as they are directly correlated to cheat kicks and the exact mirror of pop kicks. Use them to learn and become a better tricker, not to beef yourself up by saying "HYPER 9" when it was only a 720 (540 in air spin+180 hyper landing). Use them to learn and get a better well rounding to your tricking, thats all I ask.

So take some of this into consideration. I hate seeing trickers that are not that good bashing backside cause they have no idea why BS is so important. (not saying you suck bob) Cause if you trash Backside with out any good reason then your trashing these trickers and they probably dont like it

Anis
Prodigy
Sessh
Kyle mclean
Ott
Teddy
Dan Perez
TAIMATSU
Danny Graham
Sammy Vasquez
Matt Emig
Josh durbin
Me
Dave Hill
The list goes on, see my point?

[simon]

i use bs to learn how to kicks proper.

[Origional]

:good:

[Nick Fail]

i use bs to learn how to kicks proper.

good man! <3

:good:

<3

[dpitlock]

I USE THE BS TKT

[dpitlock]

WHEN EVER I DO POP 720 I DO A 720 SPIN

[Nick Fail]

WHEN EVER I DO POP 720 I DO A 720 SPIN

thats cause you hyper it or kick past your targer mr pitlock. mainly just cause you can.

[dpitlock]

thats cause you hyper it or kick past your targer mr pitlock. mainly just cause you can.

IF YOU DONT HYPER IT YOU ARE A GIRLY MAN, SAME WITH CHEAT HAVE U EVER SEEN ME CH7? NO! CUZ IM A MANLY MAN!

[Nick Fail]

IF YOU DONT HYPER IT YOU ARE A GIRLY MAN, SAME WITH CHEAT HAVE U EVER SEEN ME CH7? NO! CUZ IM A MANLY MAN!

yes you are. with hair in your man places

[dpitlock]

FUCKING RIGHT DOGGY!

[simon]

BUT NOT ON HIS CHIN!
HOHOHO!




also i can't cheat 7.

[Nick Fail]

BUT NOT ON HIS CHIN!
HOHOHO!




also i can't cheat 7.

practice your 360 hooks my friend. backside stance. 360 hook practice the pump. post a video i wanna see you landing this and the cheat kick.

[Ewasiuk]

i use bs to learn how to kicks proper.

:eh:

I'm sorry it's probably because I'm not an advanced trickster but I don't understand how using bs makes you learn proper kicks?

[Anubis]

BEFORE I START: I'm making this thread NOT to cause an arguement but to shed light on the reason why I see Backside as useful...

i completely agree...and don't worry about bobchesse, whatever he gripe he has about tricking is null & void because he's a faggot

[Nick Fail]

:eh:

I'm sorry it's probably because I'm not an advanced trickster but I don't understand how using bs makes you learn proper kicks?

excellent question. haha. heres part of your answer

You know how theres lots of difference types of kicking take offs right? Backside, is the in air-spin to many of them. if you can do a 540 round then you have opened the door to 4 different kicks that i can think of off the top of my head. cheat 720 Round (cheat 9), S/T 540 round, W/T 540 round and 540 round in combo. so you can use these for anything you want. see what i mean? bs kicks open the doorway to many different things

[Ambitrixterous]

IF YOU DONT HYPER IT YOU ARE A GIRLY MAN, SAME WITH CHEAT HAVE U EVER SEEN ME CH7? NO! CUZ IM A MANLY MAN!

haha! Papa don't be hatin on non-hyper kicks, I know I've seen you do like a cheat 9 or somethin sometime!


BEFORE I START: I'm making this thread NOT to cause an arguement but to shed light on the reason why I see Backside as useful

Backside is nothing more than:
1. A learning tool-All backside kicks are the in-air spin to a cheat kick. If you

2. A combo tool-Say you do any kinda inside hyper move or dleg move and dont wanna restep to continue the combo. You can pop or punch right into a backside kick to keep going.

3. Another form of kicks-Backside kicks are the exact other half of the pop kicking system.

The important part of the post is right here... long story short- anybody who does not credit backside kicks is NOT a credible tricker themselves, period. If you know balls about kicking you cannot deny where "backside" stance fits in, and here's a hint: NOT just pop kicks.

Get outta the past of tricking people, there is tons more than "360, 540, 720, 900, etc" now, that bein said I don't agree with the NAMES of "BS ___" because it only makes the problem of dishonesty in spin ten times worse. If you don't like calling something "Backside 1080" then call it what it is: "720 hook"

{brachets} indicate {TKT} and keep it separate from regular terminology. Example:

{hyper 180hook} = 360
{540hook} = 720
{cheat 900hook} = cheat1080

[dpitlock]

haha! Papa don't be hatin on non-hyper kicks, I know I've seen you do like a cheat 9 or somethin sometime!




The important part of the post is right here... long story short- anybody who does not credit backside kicks is NOT a credible tricker themselves, period. If you know balls about kicking you cannot deny where "backside" stance fits in, and here's a hint: NOT just pop kicks.

Get outta the past of tricking people, there is tons more than "360, 540, 720, 900, etc" now, that bein said I don't agree with the NAMES of "BS ___" because it only makes the problem of dishonesty in spin ten times worse. If you don't like calling something "Backside 1080" then call it what it is: "720 hook"

{brachets} indicate {TKT} and keep it separate from regular terminology. Example:

{hyper 180hook} = 360
{540hook} = 720
{cheat 900hook} = cheat1080

CHEAT 9S YES
CHEAT 7S NO
CHEAT 7 HYPERS YES

[Ewasiuk]

excellent question. haha. heres part of your answer

You know how theres lots of difference types of kicking take offs right? Backside, is the in air-spin to many of them. if you can do a 540 round then you have opened the door to 4 different kicks that i can think of off the top of my head. cheat 720 Round (cheat 9), S/T 540 round, W/T 540 round and 540 round in combo. so you can use these for anything you want. see what i mean? bs kicks open the doorway to many different things

C7 round is the same as a c7 feilong right? So would a 540 round just be a 540 with round kick instead of a cresent?

[dpitlock]

WHAT IF I DONT DO ROUNDS OR HOOKS ONLY IN TO OUT AND OUT TO IN CRESCENTS

YOUR LITTLE IDEA DOESNT WORK ANYMORE GENTLEMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[dpitlock]

TKT JUST COUNTS ROTATIONS TO THE KICK AFTER THAT ITS CALLED HYPERING IT OR GYROING IT

[dpitlock]

I AM POOPING WHILE TYPING TO TT

[saunders]

1. A learning tool-All backside kicks are the in-air spin to a cheat kick. If you can do a 540 round kick (BS9) then you can do a cheat 720 Round (Cheat 9).

i can 540round easily but c720rounds are so goddamn hard for me, i only landed like 2 i think. i go off-axis in c720rounds and the kick doesn't come out very powerful :eh:.


and i want to learn about TKT but it's so damn confusing haha, all this new terminology :punched:

[Nick Fail]

C7 round is the same as a c7 feilong right? So would a 540 round just be a 540 with round kick instead of a cresent?

no i never said feilong at all. theres no feilong involved. its just a a 540 in air spin with a round kick from a cheat step. nothing more of less. A {cheat 7 R} is a cheat 9. Its just proper "true to the spin" terminology

[Nick Fail]

i can 540round easily but c720rounds are so goddamn hard for me, i only landed like 2 i think. i go off-axis in c720rounds and the kick doesn't come out very powerful :eh:.


and i want to learn about TKT but it's so damn confusing haha, all this new terminology :punched:

my aim in Naturaltwister. Hit me up sometime. and PM me i'll explain anything and everything. once you get it you'll wonder how anyone uses the mainsteam terminology. and send me a video of your Ch7R and your 540 R and we'll talk some yeah?

[Taimatsu]

TKT JUST COUNTS ROTATIONS TO THE KICK AFTER THAT ITS CALLED HYPERING IT OR GYROING IT

Exactly.




On the topic of Backside: The whole concept to me with mainstream terminology, is the fact that extra spins are being Credited where they are not due. I was really nauseous when I was first told that I was doing "backside 1260s". It's all just over-crediting something that I didn't actually do. If I were to TRULY pull off a "backside 1080" I would be severely proud of myself. The truth of the matter is: NO ONE has truly done a bs1080 (3 spins + hook) to date. (at least to MY knowledge)

When I am introducing tricking to someone else, it's absurd to me to show someone a 540 spin to a round kick, and tell them that was my "backside 900 kick". Anyone with even the SLIGHTEST bit of knowledge about basic degree rotations would tell me I'm full of shit.


Summary: Mainstream Backside Terminology = Girl pushups.

[dpitlock]

pop 360 {180 hook}
pop 360 hyper {180 hook hyper}
pop 720 {540 hook}
pop 720 hyper {540 hook hyper}
pop 900 {720 round}
pop 900 hyper {720 round hyper}
pop 1080 {900 hook)
pop 1080 hyper (900 hook hyper}
bs7 {360 hook}
bs9 {540 round}
bs10 {720 hook}
bs12 {900 round}
c720 {ch540 hook}
c720hyper {ch540 hook hyper}
c900 {ch720 round}
c900 hyper {ch720 round hyper}
c1080 {ch900 hook}

[saunders]

my aim in Naturaltwister. Hit me up sometime. and PM me i'll explain anything and everything. once you get it you'll wonder how anyone uses the mainsteam terminology. and send me a video of your Ch7R and your 540 R and we'll talk some yeah?

cool man but i dont have aim :wink:

i used to have you on msn tho but you were never online. cork_kid was your msn right?
i can film my 540r and c7r tomorrow and send them to you if you like.

[Nick Fail]

cool man but i dont have aim :wink:

i used to have you on msn tho but you were never online. cork_kid was your msn right?
i can film my 540r and c7r tomorrow and send them to you if you like.

haha yes thats me and whats your alias or w/e i have alotta buddies. and yeah i'll take a look tomorrow. im about to go to a session anyways

[Ambitrixterous]

NO ONE has truly done a bs1080 (3 spins + hook) to date. (at least to MY knowledge)

This was the famous gary ip "1440." (of course not "hating" on him as a tricker, or trying to fault his trick in any way, just litterally calling what happened in the clip: {1080hook} (backside 1440) he and everyone else who I've seen do this, Kyle Mclean, Mike Maguire, Doeni, did 3 full in-air spins plus hook kick. (Landing with a good kick is a different matter :tongue:)


Summary: Mainstream Backside Terminology = Girl pushups.

hahahahhaa yep pretty much

[Nick Fail]

The truth of the matter is: NO ONE has truly done a bs1080 (3 spins + hook) to date. (at least to MY knowledge)

When I am introducing tricking to someone else, it's absurd to me to show someone a 540 spin to a round kick, and tell them that was my "backside 900 kick". Anyone with even the SLIGHTEST bit of knowledge about basic degree rotations would tell me I'm full of shit.


Summary: Mainstream Backside Terminology = Girl pushups.

actually gary ip did. his "POP 1440" is a 1080 hook. he jumped all the way around to a backside before he took off. but your post is EXACTLY right. :tea:

[Nick Fail]

This was the famous gary ip "1440." (of course not "hating" on him as a tricker, or trying to fault his trick in any way, just litterally calling what happened in the clip: {1080hook} (backside 1440) he and everyone else who I've seen do this, Kyle Mclean, Mike Maguire, Doeni, did 3 full in-air spins plus hook kick. (Landing with a good kick is a different matter :tongue:)




hahahahhaa yep pretty much

lawl, i was typing my response as you posted this hahahaha! <3

[Less than Dan]

The bs in backside actually stands for 'bullshit'.

Cartwheel to bullshit1080

[Nick Fail]

The bs in backside actually stands for 'bullshit'.

Cartwheel to bullshit1080

lol pretty much, its a cartwheel to maybe 2 spins in the air with a kick.

[saunders]

haha yes thats me and whats your alias or w/e i have alotta buddies. and yeah i'll take a look tomorrow. im about to go to a session anyways

it's brendan_tricks. i'll add you again :good:

[Anubis]

Exactly.




On the topic of Backside: The whole concept to me with mainstream terminology, is the fact that extra spins are being Credited where they are not due.

Summary: Mainstream Backside Terminology = Girl pushups.

wrong...extra spins are not being credited. the move is credited for whatever it is, when it's done correctly. onlookers do not care how many spins you're doing pre-kick or post-kick, they only recognize the illusion it makes...if they can do that much. it is you who looks at C9 and automatically thinks 900 degrees of rotation; instead of thinking creating the illusion of a P9 from a different setup.

i'm not saying that tkt isn't useful, i'm only saying that there is much folly in what taimatsu said, and i think he needs to fall back.

[Anubis]

The bs in backside actually stands for 'bullshit'.

Cartwheel to bullshit1080

cw doesn't even lead into bs-stance, so even calling it bs10 is retarded...it might as well be p7

[Nick Fail]

onlookers do not care how many spins you're doing pre-kick or post-kick, they only recognize the illusion it makes...if they can do that much. it is you who looks at C9 and automatically thinks 900 degrees of rotation; instead of thinking creating the illusion of a P9 from a different setup.

exactly but we are not onlookers, we are performers. and thus we can analyze the tricks further to help us understand them more. The more understanding you have of the tricks the easier they are to complete imo. The mind controls the body. so if you have a complete understanding of whats really going on. it makes thing way easier because you start to see the ties between tricks and transitions and take offs allowing you to relate one motion to another and not have to "learn" a whole new trick, just change one or two things and now you have two different tricks. these two feel similar but to the onlooker, they are completely different

[saunders]

cw doesn't even lead into bs-stance

WAT.

[Ewasiuk]

no i never said feilong at all. theres no feilong involved. its just a a 540 in air spin with a round kick from a cheat step. nothing more of less. A {cheat 7 R} is a cheat 9. Its just proper "true to the spin" terminology

Ohhh so it would be a 540 twist round then.

[Anubis]

WAT.

it doesn't, unless you alter the shit out of it

[petebull]

anubis, you need to SHUT THE FUCK UP

[Nick Fail]

Ohhh so it would be a 540 twist round then.

lol, no. a 540 spin in the air. Completely vertical spin with a roundkick. twist would imply horizontal.

[Ewasiuk]

lol, no. a 540 spin in the air. Completely vertical spin with a roundkick. twist would imply horizontal.

Ahhh I hate getting confused with all this terminology :ogre:

[Nick Fail]

Ahhh I hate getting confused with all this terminology :ogre:

i'll make a help video

[Ewasiuk]

i'll make a help video

Really? That would be quite useful because it's common to see other people using bullshit trick names haha.

[Taimatsu]

wrong...extra spins are not being credited. the move is credited for whatever it is, when it's done correctly. onlookers do not care how many spins you're doing pre-kick or post-kick, they only recognize the illusion it makes...if they can do that much. it is you who looks at C9 and automatically thinks 900 degrees of rotation; instead of thinking creating the illusion of a P9 from a different setup.

i'm not saying that tkt isn't useful, i'm only saying that there is much folly in what taimatsu said, and i think he needs to fall back.

There is NO Illusion to standing in BS position, spinning 360 degrees, hook kicking, then calling it a "backside 720 hook".

It's the same thing with a "Backside 1080 hook". You spin 720 degrees, then hook kick.

It's awarding yourself for accomplishments (360 extra degrees of rotation to be exact) that you really didn't do.

I don't throw hyper btwists, then tell people it's a double btwist. Same thing, IMO. Let me know if you still think I'm wrong, boss.


EDIT: also, why were you addressing "Cheat Kicks"? This is a thread about Backside.

[Origional]

Can someone please post a good way to set for bs tricks! I usually do them standing and sometimes try them from an altered bkick set up.

[Dragonic MiKe]

Can someone please post a good way to set for bs tricks! I usually do them standing and sometimes try them from an altered bkick set up.

Scoot.

Td Raiz.

Raiz.

Cartwheels and aerials can set up for either pop or backside.

[Origional]

I suppose you could also do an inside kick_bstrick

But I am looking for a run in, a nice way to practice them by itself

[Dragonic MiKe]

Standing or scoot is probably your best bet then.

[Anubis]

There is NO Illusion to standing in BS position, spinning 360 degrees, hook kicking, then calling it a "backside 720 hook".

It's the same thing with a "Backside 1080 hook". You spin 720 degrees, then hook kick.

It's awarding yourself for accomplishments (360 extra degrees of rotation to be exact) that you really didn't do...

EDIT: also, why were you addressing "Cheat Kicks"? This is a thread about Backside.

you are clearly not getting this. all vertical kicks are basically variations of pop tricks, whether they be backside or cheat. you have pop 720, you have cheat 720 and so forth. you have doubleleg, you have parafuso and so forth. it's not so much the number as a degree of rotation, as it is an indicator of when to kick. if a pop 900 is whatever it is, then a backside 900 would attempt to create the same thing, but from a different position - so it's common sense that you're going to spinning less than the pop 900. we all know that bs9 is less than p9...but bs9 produces the same end result, that's closest to p9 without it going over or being significantly less. i don't think anybody rewards themselves for doing backside tricks because of the number value, i think it's just you who thinks that the greater the number, the better...cause i would rather see a badass doubleleg hook than a badass pop 1440, because doubleleg hook is more attractive. kudos for the guy with the p14 though, but it's not always about number values. just because you think that way, doesn't mean everyone else thinks that way.

[Ambitrixterous]

if a pop 900 is whatever it is, then a backside 900 would attempt to create the same thing, but from a different position - so it's common sense that you're going to spinning less than the pop 900. we all know that bs9 is less than p9...but bs9 produces the same end result, that's closest to p9 without it going over or being significantly less.

This is the kind of thinking that gives people the wrong idea about backside kicks or any other kind for that matter- the only re-creation of "X" kick is round vs hook, or hyper of either. Other than that, it's ALL about the number of spin whether it be labeled correctly or not.

Example: "wrap(thru)9" "swing(thru)9" "cheat9" "pop9" are 360, 360, 540, 720 respectively. The range of spin isn't directly related from one to two spins and that's not even all of the "9"s.. just round kicks with "X"amount of spin in there.

[TONE TONE]

i think we should start calling nick vail dan perez jr. because of all of his knowledge, and they way he explains and breaks things down for us

[Gravityjay]

cw doesn't even lead into bs-stance, so even calling it bs10 is retarded...it might as well be p7

WAT.


I think he means that the hips aren't in the right place. A BS kick shouldn't start with the hips level, your kicking leg should be in front if you're doing an outside kick, and at the back if you're doing an inside kick. Too many people start their backside tricks from standing with their hips level and feet in line. That is cheating your backside take off and your only doing an extra 45-90 degrees in rotation instead of the extra 180. So your backside 1080 becomes a 595 hook.

This is my ONE pet peeve about people using BS kicks more and more is that a lot of people cheat the shit out of it, If it's in a combo, fine I don't expect you to readjust yourself mid flow, but the people that do it standing and cheat it get on my nerves a bit.

[Nick Fail]

i think we should start calling nick vail dan perez jr. because of all of his knowledge, and they way he explains and breaks things down for us

Dan perez taught me everything I know about kicks. I live and breathe his terminology. Thats why I can break things down. If anyone ever wondered why I can break down almost every trick its BECAUSE this guy taught me. Ask him what happened to one of his alien babys, I hatched on one foot the other is about to hatch. I saw it tonight.

[Anubis]

This is the kind of thinking that gives people the wrong idea about backside kicks or any other kind for that matter- the only re-creation of "X" kick is round vs hook, or hyper of either. Other than that, it's ALL about the number of spin whether it be labeled correctly or not.

Example: "wrap(thru)9" "swing(thru)9" "cheat9" "pop9" are 360, 360, 540, 720 respectively. The range of spin isn't directly related from one to two spins and that's not even all of the "9"s.. just round kicks with "X"amount of spin in there.

i beg to differ, i know that they are essentially the same move, just from different starting points...and swingthru 9 has 540 degrees of rotation in it from starting position to the point of impact. wrapthru 9, i've never seen...only bad missleg 9's, which would have 540 degrees of rotation as well. don't get me wrong, the amount of spin is important, but not important enough to discredit current terminology.

[Gravityjay]

He means rotation while in the air.

[tuareg]

i <3 backside

[Anubis]

He means rotation while in the air.

i know he does, but that doesn't speak about how the setup effects the trick itself...you can't just leave that shit out for the sake of an argument because the setup is a part of the tricks. cause right now it seems like he's thinking like this: cheat setup + 540 + inside kick = c9, instead of tornado kick with an extra spin before the kick = c9. they both lead to the same thing, it's just laughable that one would call the latter way of thinking "girl push-ups" merely because of the name of the trick, and not because of the difficulty...which is the only thing that matters in that argument.

[Anubis]

But that's the idea- that "full dleg" and "full round" do not exist due to the fact they do not invert, they are slanted or sideways twist + making them "cork" rather than defined by their takeoffs

you see, they are not considering the takeoffs

[Kyle McLean]

you are clearly not getting this. all vertical kicks are basically variations of pop tricks, whether they be backside or cheat. you have pop 720, you have cheat 720 and so forth. you have doubleleg, you have parafuso and so forth. it's not so much the number as a degree of rotation, as it is an indicator of when to kick. if a pop 900 is whatever it is, then a backside 900 would attempt to create the same thing, but from a different position - so it's common sense that you're going to spinning less than the pop 900. we all know that bs9 is less than p9...but bs9 produces the same end result, that's closest to p9 without it going over or being significantly less. i don't think anybody rewards themselves for doing backside tricks because of the number value, i think it's just you who thinks that the greater the number, the better...cause i would rather see a badass doubleleg hook than a badass pop 1440, because doubleleg hook is more attractive. kudos for the guy with the p14 though, but it's not always about number values. just because you think that way, doesn't mean everyone else thinks that way.

maybe all vertical kicks are varations of cheats, or s/ts, or wraps, or bs.

or maybe they are all different and you are very wrong.

[Taimatsu]

you are clearly not getting this. all vertical kicks are basically variations of pop tricks, whether they be backside or cheat. you have pop 720, you have cheat 720 and so forth. you have doubleleg, you have parafuso and so forth. it's not so much the number as a degree of rotation, as it is an indicator of when to kick. if a pop 900 is whatever it is, then a backside 900 would attempt to create the same thing, but from a different position - so it's common sense that you're going to spinning less than the pop 900. we all know that bs9 is less than p9...but bs9 produces the same end result, that's closest to p9 without it going over or being significantly less. i don't think anybody rewards themselves for doing backside tricks because of the number value, i think it's just you who thinks that the greater the number, the better...cause i would rather see a badass doubleleg hook than a badass pop 1440, because doubleleg hook is more attractive. kudos for the guy with the p14 though, but it's not always about number values. just because you think that way, doesn't mean everyone else thinks that way.


I understand where you are comming from on the "Cheat kicks" portion. You are incorporating the ENTIRE move (cheat setup and all), assuming the person were to start in the TRUE backside position. When it covers the setup and the air rotations, it equals 900 degrees. My statement is, that when you do a "Backside 1260", it's the EXACT same rotation as a "Cheat 900" (when including the setup).

Why the extra 360? There's NO rotation in that move that equals 3.5 WHOLE spins.

I'm a very strong believer in TKT, because there are no gaps.

Mainstream backside terminology has huge gaps in it. Ever notice how no one seems to acknowledge "Backside 720" or "Backside 540"? It's because they are a 360 hook, and a 180 round (or interperetively a 180 hyper-round). There's not even a "Backside 360", because it would be a jump hook kick.

Notice, in pop terminology, there's even a "Pop 360" (180 Hook in TKT), and yet it's non-existant in the world of Backside.

[Origional]

actually, a bs trick can have a pivot step in (+180). Moreover, you are sopposed to return to fighting stance after the trick (+180)

I highly doubt that the people who made the terminology didn't think things like this through

[Taimatsu]

maybe all vertical kicks are varations of cheats, or s/ts, or wraps, or bs.

or maybe they are all different and you are very wrong.

...or maybe kicks were invented to slow our spins down before we land...

...or maybe kicks are just all around obsolete....

...or maybe tricking isn't even a legitimate sport....

...or maybe god is a lie....

....or maybe I WAS born gay, and it wasn't a product of my upbringing...

...or maybe we're ALL GAY!!!!!!!



.............kyle, don't get me started on tangents, please.

[Taimatsu]

actually, a bs trick can have a pivot step in (+180). Moreover, you are sopposed to return to fighting stance after the trick (+180)

I highly doubt that the people who made the terminology didn't think things like this through

Backside was invented to bring nations to war.

[Origional]

Backside was invented to bring nations to war.

Perhaps I am right

[petrifilms]

The whole time I was reading this i was just thinking about Taimatsu...cha

[Anubis]

I understand where you are comming from on the "Cheat kicks" portion. You are incorporating the ENTIRE move (cheat setup and all), assuming the person were to start in the TRUE backside position. When it covers the setup and the air rotations, it equals 900 degrees. My statement is, that when you do a "Backside 1260", it's the EXACT same rotation as a "Cheat 900" (when including the setup).

Why the extra 360? There's NO rotation in that move that equals 3.5 WHOLE spins.

I'm a very strong believer in TKT, because there are no gaps.

Mainstream backside terminology has huge gaps in it. Ever notice how no one seems to acknowledge "Backside 720" or "Backside 540"? It's because they are a 360 hook, and a 180 round (or interperetively a 180 hyper-round). There's not even a "Backside 360", because it would be a jump hook kick.

Notice, in pop terminology, there's even a "Pop 360" (180 Hook in TKT), and yet it's non-existant in the world of Backside.

i've already told you why, read the thread. and there are gaps, your man was calling something that jumps off of two feet - clearly a hyper full hook kinda trick, a shuriken boxcutter...solely because of his inclination in the air. that's a pretty big flaw in reasoning.

[k-slash]

Simon lied, he can cheat 720.

[Skilzat85X]

i've already told you why, read the thread. and there are gaps, your man was calling something that jumps off of two feet - clearly a hyper full hook kinda trick, a shuriken boxcutter...solely because of his inclination in the air. that's a pretty big flaw in reasoning.
Let it go.

I don't use TKT and I don't believe people should be forced to.

But there are no gaps.

Simply because you don't agree with something doesn't mean you have to make up bs about it, this can apply to any area of life. Just respectfully disagree and move along. Instead of trying to create anti-TKT propaganda or discredit it with no foundation, simply don't use it.
If there actually were gaps in it, gaps that weren't just a matter of perception, it'd be valid to criticize it. But let's face it, rationally there are no gaps. And again, this is coming from someone who will never use it.

[Skippy]

I HATE THIS THREAD.

[k-slash]

I'LL SHOW YOU MY BACKSIDE IF YOU SHOW ME YOURS.

[Anubis]

Let it go.

I don't use TKT and I don't believe people should be forced to.

But there are no gaps.

Simply because you don't agree with something doesn't mean you have to make up bs about it, this can apply to any area of life. Just respectfully disagree and move along. Instead of trying to create anti-TKT propaganda or discredit it with no foundation, simply don't use it.
If there actually were gaps in it, gaps that weren't just a matter of perception, it'd be valid to criticize it. But let's face it, rationally there are no gaps. And again, this is coming from someone who will never use it.

i'm not anti-tkt, i think it's useful to certain degree, and probably a great tool. however, this taimatsu guy is on this "girl-pushup" shit like tkt puts hair on your chest. it's what the move looks like that makes it what it is not the other way around...we don't look at taimatsu and call him a faggot because he looks like one, we look at taimatsu and call him taimatsu because he is taimatsu. we can call c7 a "destroyer of worlds kick" and a c9 a "gust kick" and regardless of how devastating the c7 name is, the c9 is still harder. fuck the numbers, they're only there for reference.

[Skilzat85X]

Disregarding the fact that doesn't quite refute my argument, my response is this:

Then why are you arguing?

You think everyone thinks the same way? Hardly. People have different preferences and different things that they feel make sense. Some people feel the current terminology is sensible enough for them to understand and use.
But some people may feel that they don't like aspects of general terminology, so they may find TKT a more suitable alternative from their perspective.

It's apples and oranges. If people find TKT more sensible to them, so what? Why must they be wrong? It's a moot point. Your posts it seems are entirely perception based, so it's time you start recognizing that when it comes to matters of what you feel is more suitable for your own persona, that it doesn't mean everyone else is wrong and should have to adopt your mentality.

[Ryan Murray]

You can play an F# or a Gb and it is exactly the same.

Musicians don't find the need to argue over which one is better. Why? Because they are the same. Let's follow their lead.

[Anubis]

Disregarding the fact that doesn't quite refute my argument, my response is this:

Then why are you arguing?

You think everyone thinks the same way? Hardly. People have different preferences and different things that they feel make sense. Some people feel the current terminology is sensible enough for them to understand and use.
But some people may feel that they don't like aspects of general terminology, so they may find TKT a more suitable alternative from their perspective.

It's apples and oranges. If people find TKT more sensible to them, so what? Why must they be wrong? It's a moot point. Your posts it seems are entirely perception based, so it's time you start recognizing that when it comes to matters of what you feel is more suitable for your own persona, that it doesn't mean everyone else is wrong and should have to adopt your mentality.

people can use whatever terminology they want. i just don't think taimatsu should be all gung-ho with the tkt. vail and perez i can tolerate cause they're delivery of the message is better, but taimatsu is straightup disrespectful...that's the only reason i'm haunting this thread like i am. i could care less who's right and wrong, cause that's based off of perception and conditioned beliefs anyway. i'm a reasonable guy, i just don't take shit.

[Dragonic MiKe]

You can play an F# or a Gb and it is exactly the same.

Musicians don't find the need to argue over which one is better. Why? Because they are the same. Let's follow their lead.

Poor analogies make me sad. :sad:

[TiVo]

people can use whatever terminology they want. i just don't think taimatsu should be all gung-ho with the tkt. vail and perez i can tolerate cause they're delivery of the message is better, but taimatsu is straightup disrespectful...that's the only reason i'm haunting this thread like i am. i could care less who's right and wrong, cause that's based off of perception and conditioned beliefs anyway. i'm a reasonable guy, i just don't take shit.

Leave Taimatsu alone. Let him be gung ho with TKT all he wants.

You seem to know a lot about tricks so...why don't you quit your yappin' over semantics and start tricking. Put that knowledge to good use through actual tricks. Let's see if you trick or not. Post a vid or something.

[Skilzat85X]

If you were reasonable, you'd be letting it go ahaha, like me.

People, especially on these forums, use strong hyperboles that may come off as opinionated or condescending. I'm pretty sure that if they knew that people got offended by it to whatever degree, they wouldn't be word their opinions so strongly. Or, they just wouldn't think what they say should be taken that literally.

If you don't care who's right and who's wrong...it doesn't matter.


You see, gawd, you're saying right now that you don't care who's right or wrong in this debate because you feel Taimatsu was just being disrespectful.
However, before I joined in you were debating and fighting for your terminological viewpoints and this and that. Heck, even your first response to me was in relation to trick terminology.
But now, what you're saying is this is just about the delivery of the message, and how you feel Taimatsu should have been more respectful?

So what you're telling me is that my origin hypothesis was true, and that you are simply arguing against Taimatsu's arguments for no reason at all. More than this, you're telling me that the reason you've been debating this terminology bs with him is because you didn't like the way his words apparently "disrespected" you. And yet, what you've been addressing in this thread is not how Tai should just allegedly show more respect in the way he words his opinion; what you've been arguing is over this terminology.

So which is it? You say the reason you're "haunting this thread" is because of Taimatsu's attitude. And yet, until right now that issue hasn't been addressed. Rather, you've been frivolously arguing over this issue unrelated to what's actually upsetting you. And like my original post stating, you're trying to poke holes in his opinions in regards to the subject of terminology simply because you're disagree with him on principle, although the reason you're disagreeing with him is entirely different then what you've been debating.

So, obviously if you want to be reasonable in this situation, you will address the problem that is actually bothering you; namely, the fact that you feel Taimatsu should be more respectful to your opinions and others in the way he expresses himself about TKT, instead of mindlessly arguing from point to point, in a discussion which, even if one party did win, would not resolve the issue at hand.

[dpitlock]

BAN ANOOBUS

[Taimatsu]

I'm sorry, anubis. :sad:

[Skilzat85X]

You see bam problem solved.


THAT'S HOW EASY IT IS

[Anubis]

If you were reasonable, you'd be letting it go ahaha, like me.

People, especially on these forums, use strong hyperboles that may come off as opinionated or condescending. I'm pretty sure that if they knew that people got offended by it to whatever degree, they wouldn't be word their opinions so strongly. Or, they just wouldn't think what they say should be taken that literally.

If you don't care who's right and who's wrong...it doesn't matter.


You see, gawd, you're saying right now that you don't care who's right or wrong in this debate because you feel Taimatsu was just being disrespectful.
However, before I joined in you were debating and fighting for your terminological viewpoints and this and that. Heck, even your first response to me was in relation to trick terminology.
But now, what you're saying is this is just about the delivery of the message, and how you feel Taimatsu should have been more respectful?

So what you're telling me is that my origin hypothesis was true, and that you are simply arguing against Taimatsu's arguments for no reason at all. More than this, you're telling me that the reason you've been debating this terminology bs with him is because you didn't like the way his words apparently "disrespected" you. And yet, what you've been addressing in this thread is not how Tai should just allegedly show more respect in the way he words his opinion; what you've been arguing is over this terminology.

So which is it? You say the reason you're "haunting this thread" is because of Taimatsu's attitude. And yet, until right now that issue hasn't been addressed. Rather, you've been frivolously arguing over this issue unrelated to what's actually upsetting you. And like my original post stating, you're trying to poke holes in his opinions in regards to the subject of terminology simply because you're disagree with him on principle, although the reason you're disagreeing with him is entirely different then what you've been debating.

So, obviously if you want to be reasonable in this situation, you will address the problem that is actually bothering you; namely, the fact that you feel Taimatsu should be more respectful to your opinions and others in the way he expresses himself about TKT, instead of mindlessly arguing from point to point, in a discussion which, even if one party did win, would not resolve the issue at hand.

when i first posted in this thread i was in agreement with vail that his statement was correct, and called bobcheese a faggot in the process - which was really why i posted, i hate bobcheese. then taimatsu comes along and spits his two-cents, in which i disapprove of, so that became my reason to keep posting...i just didn't mention it in my other posts. but calling him a faggot isn't good enough, so i chose to also refute his statement by making a counter argument that his reason - not tkt in itself, for liking tkt is misplaced cause the name of trick doesn't define what the trick is. Tai...the bigger man, i forgive you...i'd say sorry too but i'm an asshole.

[Skilzat85X]

So what you're saying basically is I rock.

Thanks!

Nah but seriously, apples and oranges. Glad you guys came to a resolution!

[Taimatsu]

Hahaha! Is it possible to break the "Refresh" button on my browser?