Roids

[Vatic]

I am considering getting on the juice. More specifically Anavar, Its a low water retention, high strength increasing oral steroid, or dianabol which is a high water retention, high mass gain steroid. If I can afford both then that would probably be my first option.

What do you guys think of this?

p.s. dont get on some moral high horse and tell me Im an idiot, if you do then obviously you know nothing no this subject.

EDIT: I know that they are both oral steroids and this can cause liver toxicity but I am keeping the intake below 30mg a day Dbol and 60mg a day anavar and will not be taking them on the same days the current idea is alternating weeks for 6 weeks.

[rwm]

I recommend you take heaps of catabolic steroids!!!

[-Envy-]

Probably ask around t-nation. They'll have a lot more experienced guys compared to here. You need to know what you're doing, and take other things along with and after your cycle to be able to avoid some of the side effects.

[Birch]

Do you just want mass, how big are you now?
Is there a reason for it? Are you getting into comp?

[Phil D]

an oral only cycle is going to batter your liver and give you mediocre results, better to inject or not do it at all in m opinion.

[Casper]

t-nation is a good site to ask that kinda stuff

+ whats the reason for taking zeh juice

and if you do i'd love some before and after pics!!!

[Honken]

60mg of Anavar e/d sounds good. Skip the bol. Just make sure you have your nolva before you start anything. What's your big three and how much do you weigh?

[shengoikee]

don't bother.

just... don't haha.

[Counterfeit Soda]

You're 171lbs, at 6'0", and 20 years old. You're asking about compounds that are known for completely different things, and aren't even giving a reason for using them. 30mg of dianabol is going to do nothing but give you mediocre gains, and cause HPTA suppression. Smart idea there. Also, expect to pay a shitload for anavar.

Your edit with your proposed cycle is completely fucking retarded. You're not going to get much of anything out of them except for sides doing something like that, it doesn't look like you've even researched it. First why does it even seem like a good idea to alternate weekly between two compounds that affect HPTA function, especially when you're reducing the dose by half every other week? That doesn't even make any sense. If you're doing this because you're worried about liver toxicity, did it ever occur to you that you're just prolonging the amount of time that you're on the drug by alternating weeks? This literally has to be the dumbest idea for a cycle that I've ever seen.

Besides, if you're too much of a pussy to inject, chances are you have no business even thinking about AAS. Put on about 50lbs, and come back.

[Karlnold]

Talking about steroid cycles and stuff should seriously be bannable on TT.

[shengoikee]

Talking about steroid cycles and stuff should seriously be bannable on TT.

yeah.

[Karlnold]

not because of steroids, but because everyone who's talking about steroids and giving their "expertise" and opinions on the subject are all coming off as fucking idiots.

It's all too embarrassing.

If you really need to get medical assistance to get results than atleast do some proper research instead of asking around about it on TT, when was the last someone dealt out an actual helpful sane and correct answer around here?

[shengoikee]

basically that ^

[zambri]

put the needle in your bum and push

[-Envy-]

not because of steroids, but because everyone who's talking about steroids and giving their "expertise" and opinions on the subject are all coming off as fucking idiots.

It's all too embarrassing.

If you really need to get medical assistance to get results than atleast do some proper research instead of asking around about it on TT, when was the last someone dealt out an actual helpful sane and correct answer around here?


Not to mention almost every person that talks about wanting to try roids is a skinny doucher that has never even tried putting in the effort to get some gains naturally. They'll just end up messing themselves up and wasting a bunch of money because they don't have the discipline to do it right.

[Vatic]

The reason why I posted here was because I am trying to find out as much as possible on the subject before I do anything and even one slightly intelligent post helps which I will thank Counterfeit Soda for providing. The reason why I thought of Dbol and Var was because of there differences, Dbol being a water retentive mass gainer and Var a fairly dry strength gainer (trying to get the best of both worlds). I did think that alternating between the two would make it easier for my liver to deal with the Dbol as Var is more mild on the liver apparently. I also checked up on the recommended doses with Dbol 25mg-50mg and Var 20mg-100mg. Yet again thanks Counterfeit Soda I will do more research. I have already been checking T-Nation and I will continue to. I dont plan on actually doing the cycle for a while but I do think I should know what I am getting into.

[Birch]

ass and titties

[BboyAgua]

Let's just do some pro-hormones and call it a day.

[Karlnold]

The reason why I posted here was because I am trying to find out as much as possible on the subject before I do anything and even one slightly intelligent post helps which I will thank Counterfeit Soda for providing. The reason why I thought of Dbol and Var was because of there differences, Dbol being a water retentive mass gainer and Var a fairly dry strength gainer (trying to get the best of both worlds). I did think that alternating between the two would make it easier for my liver to deal with the Dbol as Var is more mild on the liver apparently. I also checked up on the recommended doses with Dbol 25mg-50mg and Var 20mg-100mg. Yet again thanks Counterfeit Soda I will do more research. I have already been checking T-Nation and I will continue to. I dont plan on actually doing the cycle for a while but I do think I should know what I am getting into.

Counterfeit_Soda's shit advice/post was the reason for me making that post.

If you actually want to learn something then read up on real facts about the drugs you're planning on using, like from studies knowing what kind of shit you're actually going to put in your body and how it works, dont take advice from some guy who's calling you a pussy because you're not injecting illegal drugs in order to compensate for your lack of physique/confidence whatever.

People who suffer bad results and side-effects are the people who takes advice from their buddies or the guy who's selling the shit, they never understand anything and they're usually the same guys who didnt even bother about learning how to work out properly and eat, and that's why they're desperate to get results in the first way. The people who are eager and has got no knowledge is the reason why I hate juicing, I dont hate steroids, I hate the people using them.

If you're not a genetical failure you can most certainly do a nothing but dianabol cycle, you dont even need PCT, that's if you take the right amount at the right times and for a limited time while you're actually working out for real and eat the right stuff in the right amounts. lots of bodybuilders did this for decades basically, they all looked great.

If you're fat/skinny and didnt get any gains in the gym before and decide to eat d-bols and shit and get "jacked" you will end up failing with side-effects and eventually getting off after years of abuse because your doctor is fearing for your life.


If I'd ever do steroids I'd read tons of shit about the ones I was planning on using, how to use them properly, how much, how long, and how to mimimize any risks, I wouldnt ask advice from people on the internet who's not much less clueless than myself, how do you know these people are right? If you're too fucking lazy to learn stuff by reading then atleast talk with someone who actually knows about it, like a person who's used steroids for years with great success and looks good so you know that the person knows what he's doing.

Why dont you all just ask Antoine already, or Juji, atleast they've done their homework.

[Flying Banana]

h4xz0rz

[Dave C]

Karnold wins

[Vatic]

Counterfeit_Soda's shit advice/post was the reason for me making that post.

If you actually want to learn something then read up on real facts about the drugs you're planning on using, like from studies knowing what kind of shit you're actually going to put in your body and how it works, dont take advice from some guy who's calling you a pussy because you're not injecting illegal drugs in order to compensate for your lack of physique/confidence whatever.

People who suffer bad results and side-effects are the people who takes advice from their buddies or the guy who's selling the shit, they never understand anything and they're usually the same guys who didnt even bother about learning how to work out properly and eat, and that's why they're desperate to get results in the first way. The people who are eager and has got no knowledge is the reason why I hate juicing, I dont hate steroids, I hate the people using them.

If you're not a genetical failure you can most certainly do a nothing but dianabol cycle, you dont even need PCT, that's if you take the right amount at the right times and for a limited time while you're actually working out for real and eat the right stuff in the right amounts. lots of bodybuilders did this for decades basically, they all looked great.

If you're fat/skinny and didnt get any gains in the gym before and decide to eat d-bols and shit and get "jacked" you will end up failing with side-effects and eventually getting off after years of abuse because your doctor is fearing for your life.


If I'd ever do steroids I'd read tons of shit about the ones I was planning on using, how to use them properly, how much, how long, and how to mimimize any risks, I wouldnt ask advice from people on the internet who's not much less clueless than myself, how do you know these people are right? If you're too fucking lazy to learn stuff by reading then atleast talk with someone who actually knows about it, like a person who's used steroids for years with great success and looks good so you know that the person knows what he's doing.

Why dont you all just ask Antoine already, or Juji, atleast they've done their homework.

Fair call.

[jan]

Karlnold :good:

[Counterfeit Soda]

Counterfeit_Soda's shit advice/post was the reason for me making that post.

If you actually want to learn something then read up on real facts about the drugs you're planning on using, like from studies knowing what kind of shit you're actually going to put in your body and how it works, dont take advice from some guy who's calling you a pussy because you're not injecting illegal drugs in order to compensate for your lack of physique/confidence whatever.

People who suffer bad results and side-effects are the people who takes advice from their buddies or the guy who's selling the shit, they never understand anything and they're usually the same guys who didnt even bother about learning how to work out properly and eat, and that's why they're desperate to get results in the first way. The people who are eager and has got no knowledge is the reason why I hate juicing, I dont hate steroids, I hate the people using them.

If you're not a genetical failure you can most certainly do a nothing but dianabol cycle, you dont even need PCT, that's if you take the right amount at the right times and for a limited time while you're actually working out for real and eat the right stuff in the right amounts. lots of bodybuilders did this for decades basically, they all looked great.

If you're fat/skinny and didnt get any gains in the gym before and decide to eat d-bols and shit and get "jacked" you will end up failing with side-effects and eventually getting off after years of abuse because your doctor is fearing for your life.


If I'd ever do steroids I'd read tons of shit about the ones I was planning on using, how to use them properly, how much, how long, and how to mimimize any risks, I wouldnt ask advice from people on the internet who's not much less clueless than myself, how do you know these people are right? If you're too fucking lazy to learn stuff by reading then atleast talk with someone who actually knows about it, like a person who's used steroids for years with great success and looks good so you know that the person knows what he's doing.

Why dont you all just ask Antoine already, or Juji, atleast they've done their homework.

Or why don't you actually reply to MY post, and say what you disagree with, instead of calling it shit with no reasoning? You can do a dianabol only cycle and make gains? Where the fuck did I say you couldn't? I believe what I said is they would be mediocre, and I don't think many experienced people would disagree with that. I also said that 30mg a day would cause HPTA suppression, 210mg a week WILL cause suppression, and it's retarded for you to suggest that he doesn't even need PCT for such a cycle. Shit, TRT doses of AAS will cause suppression. But you call my advice shit. Of course, I guess basing your opinions on what bodybuilders did 40+ years ago did is a good thing in your opinion. Fuck anything that we may have learned in the past couple decades.

Oh, and way to go twisting around what I said about injecting. I wasn't calling him a pussy for not wanting to inject. If someone is planning on doing a cycle of AAS, but doesn't want to use injectables, chances are, they probably aren't ready to be usinng. Does that mean NOBODY should use if they're not injecting? No. Maybe you need to brush up on your reading comprehension. If you look at the majority who are thinking about doing an all oral cycle, most of them ARE NOT ready to be thinking about AAS though. Do you disagree with me that Vatic isn't ready? If not, then why the fuck are you arguing?

Karnold wins

Karlnold's post:

Criticizing my post without any reasoning.

If you want to learn something you should read about it, blahblah studies and shit.

Something about working out properly to make gains.

If your not a failure you can make gains off of a cycle based off of what people did 45 years ago...You don't need PCT, they didn't use it 4-5 decades ago, and obviously we haven't learned a damn thing since the 60's.

More shit about fat/skinny people not working out right and getting jacked.

More shit about reading and learning about drugs before doing them.

Yes, he wins indeed. So like, read studies and shit. But make sure it's all at least 4 decades old, because if it worked for Ahnold, it must be ideal.

[Lobo]

Just break into a veterinary surgeon's office and inject yourself with everything in sight.

[BboyAgua]

I'm drinking a tall frosty glass of milk thistle.

[Karlnold]

*upset post*



I was just giving an example on how it's not really what you use, it's how you use it that is the main important thing when using steroids. If you fail at training naturally steroids will just make for a desperate and temporary solution with a higher risk of side-effects because you will keep on failing.

I dont think Vatic should do any type of steroids, he can do whatever he likes though.
Judging by your butthurt post and level of emotionality right now, I wouldnt exactly say that you seem "ready for steroids" yourself either.

And I didnt say I disagreed with your post, I just said it was shit.





I just want everybody to know that I'm pro-family and anti-drugs.

[Karlnold]

Just break into a veterinary surgeon's office and inject yourself with everything in sight.

Finally a sound advice.

[CodyLee1337]

Karlnold wins because his avatar isn't some fat chick doing the splits nude while eating cake. Fag.

[glide2]

I am considering getting on the juice. More specifically Anavar, Its a low water retention, high strength increasing oral steroid, or dianabol which is a high water retention, high mass gain steroid. If I can afford both then that would probably be my first option.

What do you guys think of this?

p.s. dont get on some moral high horse and tell me Im an idiot, if you do then obviously you know nothing no this subject.

EDIT: I know that they are both oral steroids and this can cause liver toxicity but I am keeping the intake below 30mg a day Dbol and 60mg a day anavar and will not be taking them on the same days the current idea is alternating weeks for 6 weeks.

I'd recommend injecting roids directly in your balls. And eat chlorine pucks right after. You'll enjoy tremendous results. Good luck.

[thereid]

Karlnold wins because his avatar isn't some fat chick doing the splits nude while eating cake. Fag.
Yes, I naturally assume that everyone's avatar is a picture of themselves, so in this case I'd trust Karlnold more than counterfeit soda.

EDIT: I haven't read any of their posts so I don't really know what's going on.

[Counterfeit Soda]

I was just giving an example on how it's not really what you use, it's how you use it that is the main important thing when using steroids. If you fail at training naturally steroids will just make for a desperate and temporary solution with a higher risk of side-effects because you will keep on failing.

I dont think Vatic should do any type of steroids, he can do whatever he likes though.
Judging by your butthurt post and level of emotionality right now, I wouldnt exactly say that you seem "ready for steroids" yourself either.

And I didnt say I disagreed with your post, I just said it was shit.





I just want everybody to know that I'm pro-family and anti-drugs.

Trust me, despite how you may interpret my writing, I'm far from upset about a post on the internet. I talk sarcastically, curse a lot, and argue with people for 8 hours a day, and it tends to bleed through to how I respond when I disagree with someone outside of work. You can rest assured, I'm not sitting here screaming at the computer, pounding the keyboard. My level of emotionality is, and was calm and fairly relaxed.

I think it's inaccurate to say that it's not what you use, but how you use it. If you want to gain mass, can you do it with a dianabol only cycle? Sure, if you've got good genetics, and great nutrition and training. Is it optimal? Absolutely not, and when you're dealing with hormones, why would you want to do anything less than perfect? Either research the hell out of it, and go with what would be ideal, or don't do it at all. That is my objection with 95% of people who wish to do all-oral cycles. They aren't doing it because it's in their best interest for the goals they have, they do it because they're scared to stick themselves a couple times a week. They just shouldn't be doing AAS at all. There are times when an oral cycle might be better, those times are few and far between.

Also, if you want to talk about it being "how you use it" that makes the difference, you shouldn't suggest that you "don't need PCT" just because it's a mild cycle. Even low doses cause suppression, and 210mg of dianabol a week is high enough that it will shut you down, while being low enough to only give mediocre gains on its own. Now you're coming off a less than optimal cycle, and you've got to deal with losing gains due to water weight and HPTA suppression. The best way to keep gains is to get your system working properly again, and NOT worrying about PCT isn't a good idea at all. I have less of a problem of 420mg of anavar a week, but again, studies have shown that despite what some people think, even low dose anavar will cause suppression, and 420mg a week is far from what they consider a low dose.

The whole issue of "bodybuilders did it back in the day" is faulty logic. People did/do lots of stupid things, and make progress despite what they do. That doesn't mean they're doing the right thing, just that they're able to work though sub-optimal routines. Bodybuilders also used to do bridges between cycles using anavar, to keep more of their gains from the cycle, obviously that's not ideal since it won't allow you to fully recover. Just look at all the junk that Ricky Bruch took, I hope you wouldn't suggest following his suppliment advice over what we've learned in the past few decades.

I'm glad we agree that he shouldn't do any AAS, and while I agree that I'm not ready to take AAS either, it's not for the reason you listed. I still don't understand how exactly my post was that shit, if you're not pointing out anything that you disagree with.

[Karlnold]

*very long post*

I'm not saying that some all oral cycle with no PCT is something good or preferable, I just used it as an example because this thread was about doing an all oral cycle, remember? I'll rate your post 5 stars if it makes you feel better though. If you didn't get upset the how on earth can you bother writing this smaller novel about it? And btw, I'd recommend everyone to literally do all of Ricky Bruch cycles and training methods.

[Counterfeit Soda]

If you didn't get upset the how on earth can you bother writing this smaller novel about it?

Because I'd hardly consider writing a few paragraphs to be a big deal, I suppose?

[Vatic]

I love how you guys have turned this into a vendetta. Seriously I have only just started thinking for myself on steroids so I am sorry that I have caused such conflict of opinion already. I dont see anything wrong with injectables the only reason why I chose those 2 was because of their strengths and weaknesses. I have just found out the Var is no longer open to me so I will probably go with 400-500mg of cyp a weeks for 10-12 weeks using the dbol to kick start it. I think this one is a little better then my last idea from what I have read so far. Better or Worse?

[jan]

PICS OR GTFO

[k-slash]

I love how you guys have turned this into a vendetta. Seriously I have only just started thinking for myself on steroids so I am sorry that I have caused such conflict of opinion already. I dont see anything wrong with injectables the only reason why I chose those 2 was because of their strengths and weaknesses. I have just found out the Var is no longer open to me so I will probably go with 400-500mg of cyp a weeks for 10-12 weeks using the dbol to kick start it. I think this one is a little better then my last idea from what I have read so far. Better or Worse?
Is there any reason that you can't spend the money on a good diet? Then use your time productively in the gym, instead of fussing about steroids that you won't be able to come up with a valid reason to be taking.

[Karlnold]

PICS OR GTFO


Yes.

[Casper]

jan = the law

[Counterfeit Soda]

I love how you guys have turned this into a vendetta. Seriously I have only just started thinking for myself on steroids so I am sorry that I have caused such conflict of opinion already. I dont see anything wrong with injectables the only reason why I chose those 2 was because of their strengths and weaknesses. I have just found out the Var is no longer open to me so I will probably go with 400-500mg of cyp a weeks for 10-12 weeks using the dbol to kick start it. I think this one is a little better then my last idea from what I have read so far. Better or Worse?

I suggest if you're serious, that you go to a forum with a large base of knowledgable steroid users, and tell them your proposed cycle, your reasoning for doing it, along with your current stats (age, height, weight, numbers for major lifts, amount of time you've trained, etc), and see what they have to say. You're not going to find worthwhile opinions on here, other than "you shouldn't be doing AAS yet," although that's what you're mainly going to get from knowledgable users as well.

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

Vatic,post your stats & some pics. Are you training? How long have you been training? What type of training?

If you're inexperienced in training then why aren't you squatting & drinking tons of milk? It's 10x than roids.

[shengoikee]

I just want everybody to know that I'm pro-family and anti-drugs.

*WIN*

[Vatic]

I don’t have any current pics, I will take some soon but here are my stats.

Age: 20 (I plan on doing it just after I turn 21 in a couple of months)
Height: 6'1
Weight: 80Kg before injury/now 74kg
Years lifting: 2yrs, 3 times a week

Big 3:
Squat: 200Kg (pre-injury) now about 170Kg
Bench: 110Kg
Deadlift: 215Kg (pre-injury) now about 180Kg

Reasons for doing it in short: I find it hard to put on mass to begin with and I think many people here can understand that. I want my back to recover faster (partial Break L5, yes I broke my spine, the bone is better but the muscle has been weakened) so I don’t loose any more size because so far I have lost about a year of mass gain (about 6kg for me).

I eat 5-7 times a day with an emphasis on protein and carbs, I have a friend of mine who is currently finishing off a degree in sports science who helps me with my meals. I have gone over my routine with PTs at my gym and they think it’s good.

Routine:

Monday: Chest, Bi, Calves.
Wednesday: Back, Abs, Tri.
Friday: Shoulders, Legs, Forearms. (Only 1 forearms exercise so anything that is lagging getting worked in the extra time)

3 Exercises each group 4 sets 10-8-6-4 reps at 60%-70%-80%-90%.

I chance the lifts for each group every week but the same criteria are used to select each week (example: Chest: DB Bench (main), Incline Bench (upper), Wire cross over (misc.)

[Counterfeit Soda]

Your gyms PT's are retards, and that's not a good program for anyone, get on a good, pre-designed program like Starting Strength, and don't fuck with it by modifying it. Unfortionately, if you've been training for 2 years, and the absolute heaviest you've managed to get up to is 80kg, you've been doing something (probably multiple things) extremely wrong. You find it hard to put on mass because you don't know how to eat. The secret to putting on mass is simple:

Calories in > Calories out = Weight gain

It's nothing complicated, despite what skinny guys try to say. Not gaining weight? Eat more. Still not gaining weight? Eat even more. Steroids AREN'T going to make up for your lack of nutrition and training. You may gain a few pounds while on them, but if you can't even figure out how to put worthwhile gains on, on your own, how do you expect to keep any gains that you might get once you go off cycle? There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to reach 200lbs in under a year naturally. Steroids are not for someone like you.

Start reading worthwhile nutrition and training articles, not bullshit from magazines, and don't listen to most PT's, or nutritionists for that matter. Like I said, there's no reason you can't reach 200lbs on your own in under a year by now.

[-Envy-]

I don’t have any current pics, I will take some soon but here are my stats.

Age: 20 (I plan on doing it just after I turn 21 in a couple of months)
Height: 6'1
Weight: 80Kg before injury/now 74kg
Years lifting: 2yrs, 3 times a week

Big 3:
Squat: 200Kg (pre-injury) now about 170Kg
Bench: 110Kg
Deadlift: 215Kg (pre-injury) now about 180Kg

Reasons for doing it in short: I find it hard to put on mass to begin with and I think many people here can understand that. I want my back to recover faster (partial Break L5, yes I broke my spine, the bone is better but the muscle has been weakened) so I don’t loose any more size because so far I have lost about a year of mass gain (about 6kg for me).

I eat 5-7 times a day with an emphasis on protein and carbs, I have a friend of mine who is currently finishing off a degree in sports science who helps me with my meals. I have gone over my routine with PTs at my gym and they think it’s good.

Routine:

Monday: Chest, Bi, Calves.
Wednesday: Back, Abs, Tri.
Friday: Shoulders, Legs, Forearms. (Only 1 forearms exercise so anything that is lagging getting worked in the extra time)

3 Exercises each group 4 sets 10-8-6-4 reps at 60%-70%-80%-90%.

I chance the lifts for each group every week but the same criteria are used to select each week (example: Chest: DB Bench (main), Incline Bench (upper), Wire cross over (misc.)

You're not very big for your height. You should be able to put on muscle without the use of steroids quite easily if you try a little harder.

The reason you have troubles putting on weight is because your diet sucks. I don't know what your diet is, but I know that it is not enough because if you were eating at a calorie surplus you would be able to put on weight. Your friend with the sports science degree should question the rigor that his degree put him though if he could not tell you that. Eat more.

[anfeyd]

Unfortunately Soda, SS will probably yield small results if his lifts really are what he posts them at.

[Vatic]

I was getting good strength gains and ok lean mass gains with out increasing BF%. Which was what I wanted. Yeah it must be a crap work out. :P

[Vatic]

You're not very big for your height. You should be able to put on muscle without the use of steroids quite easily if you try a little harder.

The reason you have troubles putting on weight is because your diet sucks. I don't know what your diet is, but I know that it is not enough because if you were eating at a calorie surplus you would be able to put on weight. Your friend with the sports science degree should question the rigor that his degree put him though if he could not tell you that. Eat more.

I do try to eat more but I dont get much of a chance to eat at work. I am currently changing jobs which will help me eat more, I have been bugged by the security guys at the club I work at to work with them. I start that later this week so that will make everything a lot easier.

EDIT: Well I'm not going to both here anymore, I should have take Karlnolds advice earlier.

[Phil D]

u rekon u could get a vid of your lifts?

[Colonel]

They don't know you like i kow you Vatic, they need to see some nudes ;) Ahah

I train with this dude and he's pretty beastly at the gym.
Scaring people with his extreme squattage and mega traps.

I say.... SHOTGUN METHOD > Roids!! xD

[Casper]

this guy in my gym has been taking roids for a month (he went to thailand and got some there) not only has he lost loads of fat (cause he did have quite a belly) he also gained so much muscle it is truely amazing i've never seen soemone change that much in 1 month.

i wouldn't do it myself but i was really impressed by this dudes body change.