Flexibility...

[Phil D]

No scientific studies exist linking flexibility values with performance. There is no conclusive evidence that levels of flexibility or improvements in flexibility either protect against injury or reduce the severity of injury. There IS infact evidence that suggests an increase in flexibility equals an increase in the likelyhood of injury and a decrease in performance.

[Bozzy]

I understand this...but who the hell wants low kicks even if you dont get injured

[Phil D]

I understand this...but who the hell wants low kicks even if you dont get injured

This wasnt really aimed at tricks really, well not kicks anyway, just in general sport

[rockmonkey]

being flexible wont have any specific effect on performance, but being inflexible will, if that makes any sense

[Bozzy]

Oh right yeah, non-tricking realated...I dont see why many sports would need a range of movement that would cause injury. Like when do you need splits to play badminton or football, if anything these sports reduce your flexibility.
What areas of the body are you on about that would case you more injury because back flexibility would surely help you more than contributing?

[Papa Lazarou]

I'd guess that strength in a large range of motion would be good for injury prevention.

And flexibility is obviously good for performance, in that it allows certain movements to be performed at all.

[Phil D]

Oh right yeah, non-tricking realated...I dont see why many sports would need a range of movement that would cause injury. Like when do you need splits to play badminton or football, if anything these sports reduce your flexibility.
What areas of the body are you on about that would case you more injury because back flexibility would surely help you more than contributing?

Muscle tears and damage to tendons are very common in most sports, you can tear your hamstring whilst running, you dont need a large ROM to damage soft tissue.

I'd guess that strength in a large range of motion would be good for injury prevention.

increased flexibility has actually been shown to reduce strength/power/efficiency as the stretch reflex action in muscle spindles wont be utilised. Also there will be decreased passive force production

[tsuchinoko]

If anything flexibility will help prevent injuries rather than causing them.
Also, flexibility doesn't make the muscles slower or weaker. Athletes can train for both flexibility and short range movements depending on their sport.
Tom Kurz writes all about this in his book.

[tsuchinoko]

I may be wrong here, but I think Phil D is a tad bitter about not having great flexibility. His words seem not of one who can split, but of one who has the flexibility of an elephant

[TrickinNINJA]

flexibility is good.

[Ewasiuk]

I understand this...but who the hell wants low kicks even if you dont get injured

This.

[Papa Lazarou]

increased flexibility has actually been shown to reduce strength/power/efficiency as the stretch reflex action in muscle spindles wont be utilised. Also there will be decreased passive force production

Yes, but I'm talking about strength in a large range of motion. Like getting out of side splits using only your leg muscles. That sort of "flexibility" - flexibility with adequate strength at any range - may help injury prevention more than strength alone...

And I have heard that flexibility can have the side effects you mention - reduced stretch reflex, reduced tendon stiffness and so on. I think it's a good thing to be aware of, but ultimately a moot point in an activity which requires a very large range of motion (e.g., tricking).

On the other hand, sometimes a lacking range of motion can inhibit power as well (by preventing correct technique). Throwing a javelin is one example. Performing a crescent kick might be another - you need to bring your leg up far enough to one side so that it has a large path for acceleration.

So yes, there is a trade-off. But, since most people here are tricksters, and tricking requires more range of motion than most of them possess, I don't think it's something people around here need to worry about.

[Phil D]

If anything flexibility will help prevent injuries rather than causing them.
Also, flexibility doesn't make the muscles slower or weaker. Athletes can train for both flexibility and short range movements depending on their sport.
Tom Kurz writes all about this in his book.

Having lengthened muscles DOES infact reduce the power of the muscle as power = force x velocity a lengthened muscle takes a LONGER time to reach maximal contraction thus reducing power output.

This is why athletes such as sprinters should know what they are doing when training for flexibility as it may reduce performance

[Phil D]

I may be wrong here, but I think Phil D is a tad bitter about not having great flexibility. His words seem not of one who can split, but of one who has the flexibility of an elephant

i can split in one direction (just) otherwise my flexibility is fairly average

[Hez]

Whilst there is almost certainly an element of truth in what you're saying, I have a one word answer:

Bubba ; )

[tuareg]

there's truth behind your words, but i don't see how all this flexibility reduces power business would effect people who don't compete in sports on a serious level (weightlifters etc).

flexibility might reduce power somewhat, but i don't see trckers being effected by it.

[tsuchinoko]

there's truth behind your words, but i don't see how all this flexibility reduces power business would effect people who don't compete in sports on a serious level (weightlifters etc).

flexibility might reduce power somewhat, but i don't see trckers being effected by it.

like I say, athletes can choose to train both flexiblity and that short range power stuff. you can condition your body to anything these days...

[Papa Lazarou]

Like I said, tricksters don't really need to know this, since most of them never reach the point where the flexibility trade-off becomes an issue.

For competitive runners or rowers or weightlifters this might be important to know, but not for tricksters who mostly aren't flexible enough anyway.

Edit: It's still interesting for people who like that sort of thing though.

Having lengthened muscles DOES infact reduce the power of the muscle as power = force x velocity a lengthened muscle takes a LONGER time to reach maximal contraction thus reducing power output
Heh? That's like saying if I drive my car a greater distance, I must be going more slowly.

[extreme39speed]

Heh? That's like saying if I drive my car a greater distance, I must be going more slowly.

No. It's saying that if you drive your car further at the same speed it will take longer

[Papa Lazarou]

Yes, but speed of contraction is the point, not how long it takes to reach full contraction (that is, full flexion of a joint for example).

And besides, the sacromeres would be the same length anyway wouldn't they? They're the contractile unit, I don't think they get bigger. And even if they do, they'd still be contracting at the same speed.

The fact that longer muscles take more time to reach full contraction has nothing to do with power. If anything it'd mean that you can produce the same power for longer.

[Graber]

Man i was thinking to train the biceps and the sholders and than do some push ups what do u ppl think?

I want to say that i know a guy who is skinny bastard and he does 500 crunches per day and 300 push ups...

PS: Man stop modifing my user CP WTF.

[Ewasiuk]

Man i was thinking to train the biceps and the sholders and than do some push ups what do u ppl think?

I want to say that i know a guy who is skinny bastard and he does 500 crunches per day and 300 push ups...

PS: Man stop modifing my user CP WTF.

Buy a barbell and some plates. Do barbell curls for the biceps, overhead presses for your shoulders and traps, and buy a bench for bench pressing.

[saulus]

i know many many extremly strong guys who are really flexible so i guess it isn't right at all...

the strongest guy i know in person is also the most flexible i know in person...

[Skippy]

@saulus

Jan is mad strong, and is flexible as fack =]

[n3m3s1s]

Jan is mad strong, and is flexible as fack =]

THIS

[saulus]

another great example!

[Skippy]

Or even juji himself haha

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

I think the effects of flexibility on performance is to be thought of in terms of the flexibility required by the sport one is taking part in, which has been roughly stated, but I felt it needed emphasizing. If somebody is lacking flexibility in a sport that requires a considerable amount(tricking) then they would surely be predisposed to injury during the participation of that sport & also would not be able to produce as much force through the range of movements required by whichever skill the athlete is attempting to perform.

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

Muscle tears and damage to tendons are very common in most sports, you can tear your hamstring whilst running, you don't need a large ROM to damage soft tissue.The sports of which these injuries are occurring are probably sports that require zero flexibility. Look at all the faggots that play football(soccer) & how often they get injured, just about every athlete in that sport has poor flexibility. I have a few friends playing football at a regional level & their hamstring flexibility is disgraceful & they regularly get injured in all sorts of places which I assume are directly or indirectly due to shit flexibility.

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

Jan, Juji, & Yuri are flexible powerhouses not to mention the lighter tricksters with superb flexibility too, anis has sexy flexibility & is crazy powerful & I'm pretty sure none of them get injured that much either

[BboyShinez]

all I know is...
if you have a ton of hamstring flex your J-step moves will become better,easier,and smoother....
if the o.p post is correct then a person who cant raise his leg past his waist will have a better cork then a person who could kick past their head...

[TKD_Andy]

No scientific studies exist linking flexibility values with performance. There is no conclusive evidence that levels of flexibility or improvements in flexibility either protect against injury or reduce the severity of injury. There IS infact evidence that suggests an increase in flexibility equals an increase in the likelyhood of injury and a decrease in performance.

but highly scientific studies have shown a 4000% increase in dudeyness and 3500% increase in leet when people have high levels of flex and trick.

I think you've got to take it in context. I can think of several reasons you're more likely to get injured if you're more flexible than if you're not, but im too tired to type them out now.


if the o.p post is correct then a person who cant raise his leg past his waist will have a better cork then a person who could kick past their head...

oh man, i lol'd so hard at this. Phil would be the first person to admit that he's not the most flexible of chaps, but you wait and see him cork.

[Graber]

Man i do suck at push ups. I made it to 21.( i was goin for 25 but my arms left me lol.)

[tsuchinoko]

Man i do suck at push ups. I made it to 21.( i was goin for 25 but my arms left me lol.)

lol:trophy: