Loopkicks Lockdown

[sesshoumaru]

Whaddup everyone, I'm not sure how many of y'all would be interested but I figured I post this event up here as well. On April 11th, Team Loopkicks will be hosting an event called Loopkicks Lockdown. The purpose of this event is to: 1) take advantage of the upcoming Spring Break holiday, 2) keep the local Bay Area community poppin', 3) allow those who cannot afford Loopkicks Camp...the ability to hang out and learn from Team Loopkicks, and 4) to ultimately help us [Team Loopkicks] prepare for Loopkicks Camp 2009.

Why should I care again?

By attending this event you will be:

1) Helping us predict problems that might arise during Loopkicks Camp 2009.

If we can foresee problems that might arise, we compensate for what is going to happen. We're all about preserving a positive vibe during our events, and making sure everything runs smoothly.

2) Getting quality seminars from Team Loopkicks members.

We're going to offer 5 seminars at this event. Instruction will be by Joe Gacayan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ks351Rsb04), Marques Mallare (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vHt-25WuN0), Daniel Nguyen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSzicD7hSUk), Michelle Vaquilar, and Ryan Jandu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HraXdR9PHxI)...and their instruction will be overseen by me (http://www.vimeo.com/2618992) [Sesshoumaru] and JayR deGuzman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENXVXxn-esA). A normal seminar can run $10 dollars at its cheapest, and you are getting 5 of them [$50 value].

3) Getting 4 hours of open floor tricking.

You get to trick with Team Loopkicks and socialize with your peers, learn about the tricking community and build a network, or try new techniques and share ideas. Normally, 4 hours of tricking at a gymnasium would cost you anywhere from $20 to $30.

4) Food, fun, and a free shirt!

We're offering lunch and dinner, and providing a few tricking and non-tricking activities for you to participate in during the open floor segment. We're also throwing in a free Loopkicks Shirt [$10 value], and giving you access to purchase other Loopkicks related items.

5) Exclusive announcements and updates!

We are going to make a few updates for B. A. T. L. and the Bay Area tricking community. You get the opportunity to be the first to find out our new and exciting proposition, and get a leg up on the competition!

6) Project Soul - Night Show Teaser

Come get a sneak peek at the Project Soul Demonstration for the Loopkicks Camp 2009 Night Show, and find out what Project Soul is all about! You won't be disappointed!!!


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If you want to find out who's going, check out the Loopkicks Lockdown (http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=69368296210&ref=mf) event on Facebook.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g241/iganinkuten/Banners/LKLD09large.jpg

[Flowers]

I think this really is a great thing for progressing tricking towards the public.

I really do.


However I've always wondered something about LoopKicks gatherings and such.


Why are they so expensive. Where does all that money really goto?

[jiayo-chris]

Out of principal i would never pay anything about £20 to trick, loopkicks are just another bunch of trickers :eh: sure they are better than us but trickers shouldn't have to pay rediculas prices to trick with other trickers...

[Flowers]

Out of principal i would never pay anything about £20 to trick, loopkicks are just another bunch of trickers :eh: sure they are better than us but trickers shouldn't have to pay rediculas prices to trick with other trickers...


It seems to me that it's more geared towards the younger Cali crowd with rich parents.

I would like to know where that money goes

[jiayo-chris]

Yeah, i always get the impression it's aimed towards people that are like "OMG LOOPKICKS!!! HOW MUCH AND WHERE!?!?"

[Deezy(LoOpk!cks)]

I would like to see loopkacks kill loopkicks, That would be amazing

maybe we'll getta chance to see that this summer. most of kacks is coming to my camp.

yer a lame bitch, calling a team ur not even on to battle another team hahaha

I think this really is a great thing for progressing tricking towards the public.

I really do.


However I've always wondered something about LoopKicks gatherings and such.


Why are they so expensive. Where does all that money really goto?

sup flowers.. an honest question deserves honest answers. Sessh set this event up, and im letting him hold creative control so that he could gain experience in promoting and other organizational areas of tricking. he set the hours and the accommodations and the prices to where he sees fit and im supporting him 100 percent of the way.

imagine the costs for renting a gym for a good 8-9 hrs of floor time, PLUS set up and clean up. we're providing 2 meals through out the day, clothing, and, recreational activities. we have 4 instructors teaching and we want to reward them for their time. we also want to reward our affiliate bboy crew Headhunters for their valued time and input [the tricking and bboying communities are really intertwined up here]. the money earned after expenses, is up to the event promoter, which in this case is Sessh and i believe he plans on pocketing sum for his time, and giving the rest back to the team or the team members who taught. if this all isnt fair, then i dont know what to say. $75 isnt all that much for what you get here. especially if you compared it to other events of this type.

now the thing here is... this isnt just another gathering or a themed session... it's an instructional event. albeit, you probably wouldn't want to cough up any money to pay for instruction, there are tons of trickers and especially sport karate competitors who do want the instruction so they could up their game. its sumthing that trickers/sport karate competitors locally, domestically, and internationally have been begging us for years now. its not sumthing we just came up with out of the blue. call it lame lol but it was many of you in this particular community who asked for it

this event is 1) an option for those who want to come who cant afford camp, and/or 2) a camp-preparatory function. plus theres option to just come to the open floor portion of the day n thats only gonna be like 10 bucks or so for 3 hrs, which is fair and goes straight to the gym anyways.

now i know many of you are gonna be like well i have complaints over this and that and whatever. there are gonna be complaints no matter what, and ive learned to cope with the notion that you cant please every last person. bottom line is that over the past decade that ive been running camps, mini-camp, seminars, workshops, gatherings, sessions, classes, running loopkicks as a team, being head instructor of my own martial arts school, etc etc... i've heard it all, and all the decisions i let pass thru the team are based on general consensus of trickers we deal with and of the team. we actually listen to what yall have to say n consider it to the best of our ability.

theres more i wanted to say, but i got sidetracked. feel free to ask more questions n ill try to answer them

[Flowers]

You answered mine. Thanks.

[Deezy(LoOpk!cks)]

Out of principal i would never pay anything about £20 to trick, loopkicks are just another bunch of trickers :eh: sure they are better than us but trickers shouldn't have to pay rediculas prices to trick with other trickers...

hey chris

we never put ourselves above anyone. not anymore atleast. several years back when we were teenagers, we had this loopkicks takeover mentality [ask davec]. but what proud team doesnt self root n hollar nowadays??

we're merely just trying to answer our people's plea for help. and if there's sumthing wrong with that, then i dont know what to say.

and like i said in my prior post.. the people who attend the breakdown aren't just gona trick with other trickers. they're coming to learn from the experienced. n they get all those other listed perks as well.

[Flowers]

I think the problem people are having is that they are confusing a gathering with a seminar.

or another name.


A gathering is usually run by friends for friends and generally involves the lowest cost possible (usually no entrance fee what-so-ever) The facilities and stuff planned won't be near the quality of a cost to enter gathering, but it's not designed for that.

The seminars that LK is putting on are well organized and provide a lot of stuff along with the gathering itself. (At least my guess)

[jiayo-chris]

Hey man, thanks for the reply.
I don't want you to think my post was a personal attack on loopkicks or anything, i mean i love loopkicks and when i've trained with you guys i've had a great time!

It's more a case of why do you guys need to charge rather large sums of money for a single session?
I mean if it is just for personal profit then thats fair enough, i mean i would like to make more money out of tricking. It's more just curiosity than anything.
Although reading back on my post i understand why you could think i was being aggresive so sorry.

[Deezy(LoOpk!cks)]

Hey man, thanks for the reply.
I don't want you to think my post was a personal attack on loopkicks or anything, i mean i love loopkicks and when i've trained with you guys i've had a great time!

It's more a case of why do you guys need to charge rather large sums of money for a single session?
I mean if it is just for personal profit then thats fair enough, i mean i would like to make more money out of tricking. It's more just curiosity than anything.
Although reading back on my post i understand why you could think i was being aggresive so sorry.

actually i wasnt trying to be agressive at all haha im sorry it came out like that. i was just trying to answer yer question and stress the need to charge what you are worth if you are providing a service. esp if theres a demand for it. aaand especially if you don't want to go under. im about 4/5 in the going under for camp department haha.

if i was really trying to be aggressive.. id resort to name calling like i did to fredico

[jiayo-chris]

Noo, i didn't mean you were being agressive. I mean you seemed to reply in a deffensive manner as if my post was aggressive haha <3

[Deezy(LoOpk!cks)]

oh gah! haha i love you man
all love here
merely addressing the matter haha

[jiayo-chris]

Phewww
You guys should come to England again sometime this year, or i should get my arse to America!

[Rudy]

maybe we'll getta chance to see that this summer. most of kacks is coming to my camp.

yer a lame bitch, calling a team ur not even on to battle another team hahaha





haha oh god

kAcks vs kicks :agony:

i'll stand in the back and cheer them on occasionally throwing a cork or 2, lol

[sesshoumaru]

actually i wasnt trying to be agressive at all haha im sorry it came out like that. i was just trying to answer yer question and stress the need to charge what you are worth if you are providing a service. esp if theres a demand for it. aaand especially if you don't want to go under. im about 4/5 in the going under for camp department haha.

if i was really trying to be aggressive.. id resort to name calling like i did to fredico


We don't like having the prices as high as they are either :eh:

Loopkicks Camp usually runs at such of a high price because we try to make the best MAT tricking experinece ever [in regards to free-tricking and instructional]. Are camp is for 7 days, and it includes well over 100 people...we have to feed [3 times a day], house [in hotels], and provide transportation [rent buses] for these people as well. We also go to other places besides the gym and play around, so people get some kind of experience in Cali.

Also...since we're trying to make the best MAT experience ever, we need reputable trickers there. We like to get international as well as domestic, so that people can have that dream of tricking with Teddy, D. Graham, Florian Leoty, Morgan Flook, and Anis Cheurfa in one session [because other wise, it's not really going to happen]. The only reason why it does for Loopkicks Camp is because we pay for their flights, and their stay...so about 30 of the 100 people who come, are there for free almost [and Cali is an expensive place]. And like you said earlier, we [LK] are normal guys just like y'all...we are not so rich that we can do this without hurting our own pocket books, so we raise the price as little as we can to make it work.

Another issue is that this is the 5th-6th camp the Loopkicks guys have thrown. We're actually kinda big out here I guess, because every gym we go to knows exactly what we do. They're aware of how many people come, and the hype their gym gets after we sessions there or have events...so they often try to bank off us [or y'all]. For example, the gym for the Loopkicks Lockdown double their hourly rate when we told them we were interested in hosting an event there.

True Story :agony:

[Flowers]

Normal people pay extra for big names to go free sounds a bit lame to me.

But I guess that's the nature of the sport.

[Deezy(LoOpk!cks)]

"Also...since we're trying to make the best MAT experience ever, we need reputable trickers there. We like to get international as well as domestic, so that people can have that dream of tricking with Teddy, D. Graham, Florian Leoty, Morgan Flook, and Anis Cheurfa in one session [because other wise, it's not really going to happen]. The only reason why it does for Loopkicks Camp is because we pay for their flights, and their stay...so about 30 of the 100 people who come, are there for free almost [and Cali is an expensive place]."

some flights we take care of.. not all.. just to put that in the clear :smile:

[Deezy(LoOpk!cks)]

Normal people pay extra for big names to go free sounds a bit lame to me.

But I guess that's the nature of the sport.

its the nature of sport in general. you know those big names have demands and needs they must take care of themselves

[jiayo-chris]

I think thats a level of tricking alot of people are going to aim for now, good enough to get free gatherings haha.

because i know for sure i would just simply not ever be able to afford loopkicks cali, or any american gatherings for that case.

[Kyle McLean]

Normal people pay extra for big names to go free sounds a bit lame to me.

But I guess that's the nature of the sport.

i think that if someone works there ass of to be good at tricks, and when they go to a gathering it makes others want to go so they can met/trick with them then there is nothing wrong is "normal" people paying a little more, so that the big name can make it. its like i wanna put on an event and have a big turn out, well i need a reason for people to come, my reason is im gonna fly in ott and vellu and danny g and sammy v, so many people would try there hardest to come to that gathering to met and trick with these guys. but these guys arent made of money, why should they chose my event, because its gonna be free. i dunno maybe i just want something free :tongue:


back to the lockdown. i wish i could make it :dead:, it sounds real fun. and its on my birthday.

[Vaughnya]

sucks that i have to live so far away. ive met just about everyone i wanted on the east coast but now all thats left is the trickers on the west coast. money is an issue, especually when in college =/

edit: i would pay $75 for all that

[Rudy]

why did this turn into an attack LK thread? If you don't have the money deal, and save up for next year. If you do...go for it and have a great time

[Flowers]

i think that if someone works there ass of to be good at tricks, and when they go to a gathering it makes others want to go so they can met/trick with them then there is nothing wrong is "normal" people paying a little more, so that the big name can make it. its like i wanna put on an event and have a big turn out, well i need a reason for people to come, my reason is im gonna fly in ott and vellu and danny g and sammy v, so many people would try there hardest to come to that gathering to met and trick with these guys. but these guys arent made of money, why should they chose my event, because its gonna be free. i dunno maybe i just want something free :tongue:


back to the lockdown. i wish i could make it :dead:, it sounds real fun. and its on my birthday.

I understand and agree with a lot of that. It's simple business. You want people to attend your gathering, well then get a big name to come. You will probably make the money paid for flying him out back just in the extra people that try to attend.

I just think it creates a level of elitism that I don't think is really healthy.

(I've also thought of flying in Scott Skelton for MG09 but Aussieland is absurd)

I think thats a level of tricking alot of people are going to aim for now, good enough to get free gatherings haha.

because i know for sure i would just simply not ever be able to afford loopkicks cali, or any american gatherings for that case.

It's like being a celebrity haha.

How much is a plane ticket to Indiana from your house. I'm gonna fly you out

[Flowers]

why did this turn into an attack LK thread? If you don't have the money deal, and save up for next year. If you do...go for it and have a great time


I don't feel like anyone is attacking LK.


We are just discussing our own personal thoughts about Money and Tricking

[Deezy(LoOpk!cks)]

I think thats a level of tricking alot of people are going to aim for now, good enough to get free gatherings haha.

because i know for sure i would just simply not ever be able to afford loopkicks cali, or any american gatherings for that case.

i swear by 2011 or possibly next year, im gonna have the resources to make this gathering a free shindig including all the accommodations and amenities. gimme time. i know i can do it :tongue: cross your fingers

i was aaaaalmost able to secure a huge discount on flights to anyone who flew in last year, but amidst all the economic turmoil, it didnt work out /=

[Deezy(LoOpk!cks)]

Normal people pay extra for big names to go free sounds a bit lame to me.

But I guess that's the nature of the sport.

hey if i made the offer to take care of all your expenses to come out to camp so you could inspire other enthused trickers and teach them a new trick or two, would you turn it down?

[Rudy]

i wouldnt!!

lol

[Ambitrixterous]

why did this turn into an attack LK thread? If you don't have the money deal, and save up for next year. If you do...go for it and have a great time

Because there's a HUGE problem with people on this site thinking that "getting paid for tricking" and "selling out" are the same thing :sad:

I just think it creates a level of elitism that I don't think is really healthy.

Dude imagine there was a basketball camp going down, and they fly out Lebron James. Don't you think there's gonna have to be an increase in the price to attend said camp in order to, oh I dunno, PAY FOR FUCKING LEBRON JAMES TO TEACH AT YOUR BASKETBALL CAMP?!!? HE'S LEBRON FUCKING JAMES! Face it, tricking may not be worth anything yet, but there's no denying that the "pro" trickers deserve to take their place among any other pro athlete in the world. It really is simple business, these are people who have a skill that other people are willing to pay to utilize, whether that be in taking a class or witnessing a performance. Do you see skateboarders bitching that Tony Hawk's shit is paid for?

*please note: I swear because I have a filthy mouth like a sailor, not out of anger. I type in an appropriate inside voice and am simply debating with you :tongue:

[Rudy]

Because there's a HUGE problem with people on this site thinking that "getting paid for tricking" and "selling out" are the same thing :sad:



:agony:

[saulus]

i can understand towels arguments on this somehow...
to come to loopkicks for 7 days i had to pay around 2000euros with all the costs around it... i couldn't even effort that when i saved money for one year ^^...
for me tricking gatherings are about having fun ,meeting new people ,making friends. i guess i will never pay more than i payed for loopkicks germany for having a funtime... which was around 100euros...

and i know i read all the arguments and i can understand your guys point of view....
but i believe when the gatherings are that expensive they will probably lose there fun-factor since many people who love tricking have no chance to come

[Ambitrixterous]

Because there's a HUGE problem with people on this site thinking that "getting paid for tricking" and "selling out" are the same thing :sad:

Oh and before a hundred people start in defending this BS, I might as well go ahead and clarify. To SELL OUT is to compromise your morals, values, or other aspect of your character for money. This is not what we are talking about here.

What we're talking about here is people making money for providing a service which is (now exact price comes into play) "worth" the money. For big name trickers to make money for performing tricks is simply for them to be able to make a profit for providing their service. EXAMPLE:



Here in Colorado I teach tricks, and people pay me for it. (performing is not my thing, teaching is my thing because I am good at it and because I know my shit well enough to do it on both sides)

My students are paying me for my time, so they deserve my full and undivided attention. Why is my time so valuable? Because if I do not spend my time in such a way that I am getting paid then I do not get any of the things I enjoy such as

-food & drink
-shelter
-laptop w/internet so I can be a part of the tricking community worldwide

Now, if I'm at an open gym or somewhere doing a session and a tricker who is NOT one of my students comes up and asks me a question, I still offer my advice. "WAIT A MINUTE, YOU SHOULDN'T HELP SOMEONE WHO ISN'T PAYING FOR YOUR SERVICE, BECAUSE YOU ARE AN EVIL GREEDY MONEY-LOVING TRICKER WHO ONLY WANTS MONEY FOR HIMSELF AND TO TAKE CREDIT FOR ALL OF TRICKING!!" So why do I help him? Because I am me and that's what I feel like doing. Now on that note, the attention I give said non-paying tricker is not the same as the attention I give to my students, but this is only because I am me and that's all I feel like giving.

"WELL IF YOU HAD A BILLION DOLLARS YOU PROBABLY STILL WOULDN'T HELP PEOPLE WITH YOUR FULL AND UNDIVIDED ATTENTION!" That might be true. I probably would simply offer advice like in the example above, but only because I'm me and that's what I feel like doing. If I was that rich maybe I WOULD want to give my full and undivided attention, who knows?



In the end money doesn't make you a scumbag if you're not one to begin with, but is sure is a necessary part of our lives so what's wrong with obtaining it through helping tricking? How many of us got into tricking because we saw someone else who was awesome at tricking? What if those people didn't have to occupy their lives with things other than tricking and they could spend all their time just training? We might have a thread like this one:

http://www.trickstutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57036

a hundred miles long..

[BrandonLenz]

haha i was temped to friend sesshoumaru, but thats kinda awkward/creepy considering i dont know the guy.

[sesshoumaru]

Because there's a HUGE problem with people on this site thinking that "getting paid for tricking" and "selling out" are the same thing :sad:


What's funny is that people think that since we're attracting hundreds of people from all over the world, and the majority of them is paying anywhere from $750-$950...we must be making money.

We do not make any money during Loopkicks Camp...history has shown that we lose money when we throw camps. Last years camp was the only exception, and we only broke even.

If people would stop assuming that we're trying to milk our "good name" for as much as we can, and ask questions about where the money goes...then everything would be straight. The cost of camp seems high, but we don't keep it all. We basically collect it as a donation towards making the camp as good as it is [if you consider it "good" at all], and we spend that money [your money] on you...so it all goes back to the community in one way or another.

[Flowers]

hey if i made the offer to take care of all your expenses to come out to camp so you could inspire other enthused trickers and teach them a new trick or two, would you turn it down?


I would definitely take the offer.

I see what you're saying, but my point was that if you were on my end. (A tricker whose not a noob but not a pro)

would you want to pay a decent amount more just so some pros can go for free?




What's funny is that people think that since we're attracting hundreds of people from all over the world, and the majority of them is paying anywhere from $750-$950...we must be making money.

We do not make any money during Loopkicks Camp...history has shown that we lose money when we throw camps. Last years camp was the only exception, and we only broke even.

If people would stop assuming that we're trying to milk our "good name" for as much as we can, and ask questions about where the money goes...then everything would be straight. The cost of camp seems high, but we don't keep it all. We basically collect it as a donation towards making the camp as good as it is [if you consider it "good" at all], and we spend that money [your money] on you...so it all goes back to the community in one way or another.



I understand all you're sayin and agree.




The difference I'm seeing is that the type of gathering a person like me would be inclined to goto would be more of a friendly let's just go have fun thing. (I'm not a noob but not near a pro) I wouldn't pay Dan pitlock to trick with him so he could teach me to get better. But I can see how some people would

[Kyle McLean]

i think people need to understand that loopkicks may seem like a lot but, those of you who say you couldnt afford it if you saved up forever maybe its cause of where you live.
Kacks Gathering was a about 3 days for me with flight and food and weed it cost me close to 500 dollars. thats cause mike housed me, drove me, fed me some, and we had one session at a gym that we got a great deal on.

think about it. LK camp, your 1,000 dollars pays for, place to stay, food, a gym 24/7, transportation, and the various LK gifts you recieve, not to mention the instruction that you get from the worlds greatest trickers. thats alot that you get. 7 days is a long time, even if its only 6 nights, thats alot of money just for housing. never mind 7 days of food, transportation and how much would it cost you to get that many hours in a gym?

so maybe its only out insanly difficult for some of you to save up cause your flight costs more then the camp. its not cheap to fly to cali, last year my flight was like 600 dollars and i dont live THAT far away from there.

also i agree with dan perez.

and i cant wait for the next LK camp i get to attend.

[eggmanslim]

if u think about it from now... if u saved 2 dollars a day starting tommorrow by the time it comes to april 11th u have enough money! or if ur birthday is on april 2nd (me) and you become a grown ass man them someones gunan give u hella money anyway so u got nothin to worry about!! lol but yeah i know not everybody has money for it... but think about what ur gaining not losing... i really dnt think its that much for what ur getting.... i know wen i get helal good and i move to tokio i want to get payed to come down to a camp (hint hint) haha nah im kidding...but yeah i dnt have to relist what ur getting... its a lot more than ur losing... and sheit! even if LK DID!!!! wanna do it for the money theyve done hard enough work to get big enough that anyone would even WANT to come to their a event in the first place! so they deserve it!...(they dont by the way) but yeah all i know is... im gunna Eeeeeease on thoooo and DESTROY
im COMIN!

[TiVo]

if u think about it from now... if u saved 2 dollars a day starting tommorrow by the time it comes to april 11th u have enough money! or if ur birthday is on april 2nd (me) and you become a grown ass man them someones gunan give u hella money anyway so u got nothin to worry about!! lol but yeah i know not everybody has money for it... but think about what ur gaining not losing... i really dnt think its that much for what ur getting.... i know wen i get helal good and i move to tokio i want to get payed to come down to a camp (hint hint) haha nah im kidding...but yeah i dnt have to relist what ur getting... its a lot more than ur losing... and sheit! even if LK DID!!!! wanna do it for the money theyve done hard enough work to get big enough that anyone would even WANT to come to their a event in the first place! so they deserve it!...(they dont by the way) but yeah all i know is... im gunna Eeeeeease on thoooo and DESTROY
im COMIN!

Oh Gahd. My eyes!!! AHHH!! How is anyone gonna read that? Btw, were you high at the time you wrote this? lol.

[eggmanslim]

Oh Gahd. My eyes!!! AHHH!! How is anyone gonna read that? Btw, were you high at the time you wrote this? lol.

lmao! hah au know that makes perfect sense... i wasnt high i was tired but it makes sense ot me lol

[hans wikkeling]

i just wunna add one more thing. in the past loopkicks has hosted several events that only cost under $15. they have been extremely fun and successful events. the only 2 events in the bay that i know of that have really costed over that amount are lockdown and the summer camp that i can reacll. only 2 events. and these events are instructional events. where you actually get help from highly trained trickers.

[hans wikkeling]

loopkicks lockdown is next week. yay yay. i cant wait.

[Jon P]

I have always found Dee and the rest of Loopkicks to be super generous.
I just think people have a really false impression of how Loopkicks does business.
=/

[Safari]

I finally read through this, and I gotta admit that this summer I was like "damn LK selling out tricking". Later one I've given it some thought and it's a great deal, Chris-D and loopkicks are doing a great job hosting this.

I'm coming next year, I have to get myself a job. :tongue:

[tsuchinoko]

To me, the price of LK is the best deal ever. Getting to trick with the LK crew is the ultimate

[Empty86]

damnit...why's it gotta be during the Shamrock/Diaz fight????