"Double-edged Sword" [Archive]

sesshoumaru

Mar-15-09, 08:21 PM

Even though this has already happened in my point of view, I wonder what will become of MAT once people have unequivocal [admitting of no doubt or misunderstanding, clear] proof that TCORK can be landed?

Just like in any scenario concerning MAT, when one person accomplishes a great feat, it is soon duplicated by several people a few weeks later. The thing that concerns me is that when this happens, the hierarchy of techniques get shifted around...what was once considered amazingly difficult, will be considered mediocre; and what was once considered impossible, will be expected.

It's progression...it's inevitable, it's what we've been striving for, and it's something MAT needs; but is it the type of progression that's going to bring about a positive change? Well no one can really answer that. All we can do is see what happens, and make adjustments as we go along. It's like a double-edge sword...though one edge of the blade is facing your opponent, the other blade is facing you. It's a benefit that is also a liability.

The problem is...we haven't really pushed any other skill to the same limits as we have the CORK. We tried with "Double Doubleleg"...failed. We tried with "Hyper Snapuswipe"...that was a nightmare. Once this TCORK gets released, we will have no single skill we can put on the other side of the scale to maintain balance. The damn thing is just too phenomenal, and it's literally been hyped for the past 6 years.

Maybe I'm just paranoid [which wouldn't be anything new], but I feel like it's all going back to 2003. Where really good trickers cease getting acknowledged because there is some guy out there who can do this untouchable trick. People are going to have to step their game up...newbs will join the community gunning for TCORK, the next goal will be "Quadruple Corkscrew", and eventually...the other stuff won't even matter.

Damn, this could get really lame :eh:

Monstyr

Mar-15-09, 08:29 PM

Nooo! This could ruin tricking for my lazy friends. on the other hand its great motivation =/

kinetic

Mar-15-09, 08:35 PM

Yeah i agree. But some tricks are just so difficult that random people don't start trying/landing them even though it has been proven possible. Some examples are the "wikklash", Hans' 360 frontflip, and the cheat1080 twist. Then again, the community is probably more proficient in cork variations then cheat twist or .. pop kick-flip variations haha.

Rudy

Mar-15-09, 08:37 PM

It'll be interesting sessh, yes, but I think it's for the best. Obviously we'll have new people coming just going for double so they can go for triple for the fame and glory. But you have to remember that they'll just get shoved back down due to injury and be forced to progress "naturally". There will however be some people who are just damn good and will be pushing those next limits soon after. It'll be interesting to say the least.

Ryan Murray

Mar-15-09, 08:38 PM

We'll have to break the rules in new ways that we haven't even thought of yet. I think it's a really exciting thing to look forward to.

Origional

Mar-15-09, 08:39 PM

Is this post about how other people evaluate you, or how you see yourself?

kinetic

Mar-15-09, 08:45 PM

We'll have to break the rules in new ways that we haven't even thought of yet. I think it's a really exciting thing to look forward to.

Yeah, i'd REALLY rather see people be innovators instead of trying to squeeze another rotation out of everything. Nothing against doubles/triples but new ideas are refreshing. After all the triple tricks are landed, i think people will be forced to innovate for recognition haha.

Jon P

Mar-15-09, 08:46 PM

Obviously it is going to be ridiculously insane but I still find it to be another step in the direction of turning tricking more toward "freestyle acrobatics" and further away from "martial arts tricks".
Which depending on your personal stance on tricking could be a positive or negative thing.

sesshoumaru

Mar-15-09, 08:47 PM

Is this post about how other people evaluate you, or how you see yourself?

Even though this has already happened in my point of view, I wonder what will become of MAT once people have unequivocal [admitting of no doubt or misunderstanding, clear] proof that TCORK can be landed?

Just like in any scenario concerning MAT, when one person accomplishes a great feat, it is soon duplicated by several people a few weeks later. The thing that concerns me is that when this happens, the hierarchy of techniques get shifted around...what was once considered amazingly difficult, will be considered mediocre; and what was once considered impossible, will be expected.

It's progression...it's inevitable, it's what we've been striving for, and it's something MAT needs; but is it the type of progression that's going to bring about a positive change? Well no one can really answer that. All we can do is see what happens, and make adjustments as we go along. It's like a double-edge sword...though one edge of the blade is facing your opponent, the other blade is facing you. It's a benefit that is also a liability.

The problem is...we haven't really pushed any other skill to the same limits as we have the CORK. We tried with "Double Doubleleg"...failed. We tried with "Hyper Snapuswipe"...that was a nightmare. Once this TCORK gets released, we will have no single skill we can put on the other side of the scale to maintain balance. The damn thing is just too phenomenal, and it's literally been hyped for the past 6 years.

Maybe I'm just paranoid [which wouldn't be anything new], but I feel like it's all going back to 2003. Where really good trickers cease getting acknowledged because there is some guy out there who can do this untouchable trick. People are going to have to step their game up...newbs will join the community gunning for TCORK, the next goal will be "Quadruple Corkscrew", and eventually...the other stuff won't even matter.

Damn, this could get really lame :eh:

What do you think bro...

Scott

Mar-15-09, 08:48 PM

Nah damn near everyone who tricks goes about it in a completely disorganized fashion that doesn't lend itself to reaching their potential. If someone wanted to get good at gymnastics they would train the skills over and over and over and over and condition specifically to strengthen those movements. Same with boxing, same with football, same with olympic lifting, same with any sport.

Then you have tricksters, who just go into open gym or a park a few times a week and do whatever random thing they feel like. Tricksters don't pay attention to how many repetitions they did of x trick, most don't even do tricks on both sides. If people started structuring their shit better a whole lot more people would be landing not only triple cork, but also all those other impossible tricks.

Dave C

Mar-15-09, 08:48 PM

zombie sessh

edit: love the avatar scott <3

Monstyr

Mar-15-09, 08:49 PM

lol! edit: this was @ sessh's post. quote isn't working on my psp

Braka

Mar-15-09, 08:55 PM

When i train alone i do sets of tricks (20xCork,20x c900 and so on)

I'm so tempted to train like a gymnast but i feel it'd take away the fun of tricking!

Origional

Mar-15-09, 08:57 PM

What do you think bro...
haha

ok. I see.

Dave C

Mar-15-09, 09:12 PM

I would say the best approach would be to not let it bother you, just keep doing what you love, and don't limit yourself to just one form of expression.

Be a Renaissance Man

dpitlock

Mar-15-09, 09:50 PM

This is why corks are retarded.

Ewasiuk

Mar-15-09, 09:55 PM

I bet frank yang could quadruple cork if he actually tricked for a while.

AdamSwaluk

Mar-15-09, 10:08 PM

Release a hyper jacknife (official spelling: one 'k', get used to it), maybe with a lil' roundkick action on the end, about two weeks after triple cork is released. Problem solved, no?

You really are just being paranoid, though.

sesshoumaru

Mar-15-09, 10:17 PM

I would say the best approach would be to not let it bother you, just keep doing what you love, and don't limit yourself to just one form of expression.

Be a Renaissance Man

You know DC, I really try hard to do so. I'm not gonna front as if I'm the only one trying...but it certainly feel "outnumbered" in this bitch. The only comfort I really find is within Txtrickzters, Loopkicks, Furious Force, NAN, Team FS, MEM, Flip Monks Squad, myself, and a few others teams .

Everyone of these teams has explored power, style, and technique equally...but out of the hundreds [?] of MAT teams in the world today, it seems like 80 of them are only exploring "power based moves". Over the past year or two, I really feel like I've accomplished a several unique tricks: [B]Pop 360 Kickflip [which most people call the "Wikklash"], Touchdown Raiz Twist , [B]Touchdown Double Aerial Twist, and Gyroknife to name a few. But when they're pitted against 20 different vids of "doubles" every week, it can bet quite overwhelming.

Case in point, the M. Guthrie sampler that was up a few weeks ago. The feeling that most people felt at the mid-point of that vid is pretty much how I feel when I browse 80% of the stuff on TT, or any tricking site [save for Bilang].

Sometimes I wish I was in a position where I can be as unconcerned as Scott [sorry Scott], but I really can't.

AdamSwaluk

Mar-15-09, 10:19 PM

Maybe if you released some of that footage it would make a difference. Vids or it didn't happen, y'know?

kinetic

Mar-15-09, 10:30 PM

Touchdown Double Aerial Twist[/COLOR], and [COLOR="DarkRed"]Gyroknife

Crap, i was wondering if ther 1st one had been done or if it was even possible at all haha. Vids of them?
And Adam's idea isn't bad actually, haha. I don't see how a hyper jacknife hasn't been done yet. If i had a jacknife half as good as some of the ones ive seen i wouldve hypered it a long time ago.

glide2

Mar-15-09, 10:32 PM

newbs will join the community gunning for TCORK, the next goal will be "Quadruple Corkscrew"

No, the next goal will be triple btwist... I don't think a quad cork is even possible.

sesshoumaru

Mar-15-09, 10:38 PM

Maybe if you released some of that footage it would make a difference. Vids or it didn't happen, y'know?

First of all, I hate that phrase. It was the first thing I was told when I introduced myself to this community, and I've repeatedly proved this notion "wrong" over and over again, and people still say it like it means something.

Secondly, the vids have been out for a while, and no one really even caught what it was that I was doing...which sort of proves the point I was making in my previous posts.The problem is that that vid is no longer available since I deleted my Youtube account.

No, the next goal will be triple btwist... I don't think a quad cork is even possible.

That's exactly what they said about TCORK when DCORK was being landed by more and more people.

kinetic

Mar-15-09, 10:43 PM

Yeah it is i think. Quintuple isn't IMO though.
Quad is probably only attainable with some sort of super power-generating setup, like a td-raiz, btwist, c/t-gumbi, or whatever these crazy bastards want to use next.
I think that whatever can be done with fulls can mostly be done with gainerfulls/corks.

TiVo

Mar-15-09, 10:46 PM

Boxcutter level two aka doublecork hyper hook.

dpitlock

Mar-15-09, 10:51 PM

I dont think about triples. Only double kicks and lower.

AdamSwaluk

Mar-15-09, 11:06 PM

"Vids or it didn't happen" isn't meant to be taken literally, it's just a policy. It means "If you didn't catch your [insert crazy trick here] on camera, we aren't inclined to believe you". It prevents people from making big claims like "I landed triple cork with my eyes closed" and actually getting credit for them.

It's not something you can disprove.

cHiNoDaFiLiPiNo

Mar-15-09, 11:08 PM

...newbs will join the community gunning for TCORK, the next goal will be "Quadruple Corkscrew", and eventually...the other stuff won't even matter.

This is the problem with our community. New trickers begin tricking because they see one or several of the same moves being done over and over. This automatically sets a so called "standard" of tricking. New trickers suddenly get brainwashed by certain moves (i.e.: cart-fulls, dub cork, dub btwist, etc.)
To coincide with what Sessh said in an older post,

"People are too concerned with being like Dave C, being better than Anis, and so on and so forth. Tricking is about you, not other people. Don't be better than me...be better than you, learn to master you! That's what this is about...don't express yourself by emulating KJER [or any other tricker], be your own man. So many people are "headhunting" for all the most difficult tricks like that's gonna ensure them a place among the "tricking gods" or something. FUCK THAT SHIT!!! More than half of the people that can do Double Btwists, Triple Fulls, Double Corks, etc....suck at tricking [can't even put 3 moves together with out the help of CW > Front]. If you're going to trick, be a "tricker", otherwise you're just hurting the community."

I completely agree with that. A lot of trickers try to just copy combos that other trickers do. Creativity and innovation is instantly LOST.

Okay so maybe creating new moves or combos are extremely difficult at the level tricking is at now. But why not expand on the areas that we already have. Only a handful of trickers can make miss-legs look beautiful. Is this the reason why nobody trains them? Does it look too hard? Maybe nobody does they because there's no one to copy a MSL combo from. Of all the sections of tricking I feel that has gotten the least attention surprisingly is kicks. People aren't satisfied with doing a single cork; they want a double. But C9 double? HA! Very rare nowadays.

TiVo

Mar-15-09, 11:10 PM

I agree man. Kicks are where it's at!

I'd be alot happier if every newb out there started out tricking trying to land a hypercheat 9 or snapuswipe instead of Dcork.

cHiNoDaFiLiPiNo

Mar-15-09, 11:17 PM

I agree man. Kicks are where it's at!

I'd be alot happier if every newb out there started out tricking trying to land a hypercheat 9 or snapuswipe instead of Dcork.

Seriously! It's called MARTIAL ARTS Tricking for a damn reason! :agony:

Skilzat85X

Mar-15-09, 11:55 PM

As long as there are purists like many of us it won't become too much of a problem.

I mean heck, under any circumstances it would never really be a problem, cause I mean what are you gonna do sue someone haha? It's an fun free activity for the young and young at heart it's no big deal.

Now, within the scope of the tricking community, I see how the issue could come up. But yeno, people want to do tricks for a reason, the reason being because it looks really cool. People shouldn't be controlled in regards to such activities as this. As always, it's best to lead by example.

What I'd be more concerned about first of all is a degradation of quality. I'm not talking about "oh no don't use backside dur dur dur" or "only do these kinds of tricks or else your this or that." I mean honest and significant degenerating of technical value to make tricks cheaper and uglier. Navel high kicking, off target "drag" kicking, uninverted moves which are moves of inversion haha, slight flaring back of the leg qualifying as a hook out of a trick, mild pausing and subtle bent 'piking' of the legs counting as double legs within tricks, and just a general apathy towards proper technique. What's worse is that proper technique does in fact make things look cooler yet it still persists haha.
Then you'll have the army of minions saying "no if we all follow proper technique we'll all look the same" which obviously is a retarded notion.

Though it may sound hypocritical after the above as long as people respect and recognize the origin of the sport I don't care how "martial artsy" it stays. Don't supposed anyone's happened to look the word 'martial' up in the dictionary lately. :snooze:

I also say there's nothing wrong with copying moves or combos if you think it looks awesome. Gawwwd just have some fun. If you want to make something new then make it, if you think something else looks so cool and you wanna do it then do it.

I guess you could say I'm only for encroaching upon the 'necessary things.' Tricking is nothing without it's tricks and it's tricks give it it's dignity, and should be done to the fullest of their ability. Because if they're not done relatively disciplined and well, why should they or what they do be respected?
And if one doesn't take part in all areas of tricking, sure they may just not want to but that's fine, but if they say they want to be involved in tricking, how could they be if they don't take part of it as a whole?

Other than those, I'm very open to whatever interpretations, opinions, or methodologies that anyone has in regards to their tricking and attitude towards it. Fact is there are a variety of people from different backgrounds and opinions so if we truly want to be tolerant of them all it's only fair to regulate the tricks that make it what it is, not forcing ones to adhere to a certain thought system just because they want to do some cool looking moves.

TiVo

Mar-15-09, 11:59 PM

We should all wield katanas instead.

sesshoumaru

Mar-16-09, 12:00 AM

Seriously! It's called MARTIAL ARTS Tricking for a damn reason! :agony:

Yes it is called MAT for a reason, and we encourage people to practice all aspects of tricking; but they are also at liberty to practice whatever it is they want to. This gives people the ability to "specialize" in whatever skills they want to, and ultimately helps us push the limits of MAT in those skill sets...I'm just afraid that it has ended up the way I'm feeling it is.

Thus, the "double-edge sword".

Scott

Mar-16-09, 12:01 AM

Though it may sound hypocritical after the above as long as people respect and recognize the origin of the sport I don't care how "martial artsy" it stays. Don't supposed anyone's happened to look the word 'martial' up in the dictionary lately. :snooze:

This is the part where everyone goes "NUHHHHH YOU'RE SAYING PEOPLE SHOULDN'T KICK IT CAME FROM MARTIAL ARTS YOU WHORE IF YOU DON'T KICK IT ISN'T A TRICK SKILZAT YOU ASSHOLE I DECAPITATE GNOMES WITH MY 1080 HOOK AT KNEE HEIGHT BECUZ ITS A KICKKKK"

And myes, I feel the cork craze makes complete sense. I think that people go with double corks so much because they're easier for most than double aerial twists or butterfly twists and have more potential for comboing. Adding another twist is a natural extension of technique, just like adding a twist to a 540 created a 540 gyro, adding it to a doubleleg made doubleleg twists (which were also deemed OMG IMPOSSIBLE years ago and now everyone can do them), and so on.

NyCz JeSteR

Mar-16-09, 12:05 AM

Yes it is called MAT for a reason, and we encourage people to practice all aspects of tricking; but they are also at liberty to practice whatever it is they want to. This gives people the ability to "specialize" in whatever skills they want to, and ultimately helps us push the limits of MAT in those skill sets...I'm just afraid that it has ended up the way I'm feeling it is.

Thus, the "double-edge sword".

it takes time sessh. like you said, all the teams you mentioned were around the 2002-2004 era, so it's been a while y'kno? after you've been in this for a while, you're going to realize it's not just about the double/triple/quadruple corks anymore. who wants to be a one trick pony right?

DYoo

Mar-16-09, 12:28 AM

oh jester.

but yeah, ive been feeling that since the cork craze that started few years back.

you watch a sampler and all you see is corks (probably a good 80%). you never see 540s in combos much anymore, or c9s. which is why i get so bored watching samplers now because i know at least 50% of the sampler is going to be corks. this is why i enjoy watching sessh, ott, teddy, NAN stuff, KJER, Team FS, FF, almost any of the old teams, etc because they mix up their tricks!

you never see c9 combos, or c10 combos anymore, you hardly see 540 combos or 720dubs. you'll see couple of them as single moves, but never in combos much.

but i aint saying that its a bad thing. it just gets old for me now.

however, i dont express the same concern as you sessh, maybe because im not even close to your caliber of tricks, but i just see it as a triple cork. sure it'll make history, and it'll be a crazy hype, but should it effect the way we express ourselves?

i mean i remember you writing about the state of emergency thread, and the feelings expressed were about how we should express ourselves as trickers.

so i say let them land triple corks. because as much as there will be people gunning it down, we all will be tricking for the sake of enjoyment and expression.

sesshoumaru

Mar-16-09, 12:46 AM

And myes, I feel the cork craze makes complete sense. I think that people go with double corks so much because they're easier for most than double aerial twists or butterfly twists and have more potential for comboing. Adding another twist is a natural extension of technique, just like adding a twist to a 540 created a 540 gyro, adding it to a doubleleg made doubleleg twists (which were also deemed OMG IMPOSSIBLE years ago and now everyone can do them), and so on.

In my eyes, DCORK has become what it is because people have put it upon this pedestal. People have noticed that when trickers talk about other well known trickers, they aren't talking about their "Aerials". People could watch a full-on sampler of Teddy, with him doing "Hyperhooks", "Swipeknives", "Doubleleg Hooks", "Corkswipes", "Backside 1080's", or whatever...but as soon as he does DCORK, most of that stuff is forgotten. It's as if only the most difficult stuff is worth mentioning...so you end up with threads with 73 of the 100 posts talking about how the DCORK was cool. The thing is, I'm willing to guess that it isn't because it's difficult to do. I think it's just because it's the current trend.

It's like this motherfucker T-Payne (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WhqCeytMi8). Sure he's released a few interesting tracks, but he's are also responsible for a whole slew of "new artists" abusing the "auto-toner" [the thing that makes their voices sound robotic]...because they're looking to cash in on the success that he has made - commercialism [even though as a musical artist, he doesn't have much talent]. Now though, he may not be as musically gifted as Mint Condition (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKnbOTvcc2s)...he has given us something relatively new to groove to [that being the auto-toned songs]. WRONG, he hasn't even done that...Teddy Riley of Blackstreet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7dW6izXkGA) was on that a decade ago. But people don't remember that because it wasn't a trend like it is now.

Most people make their decisions off of trends, or what other people tell them is awesome...so their natural disposition to everything is already distorted. Let us start praising people for how awesome their "Crescent Singlelegs" are, and watch how many people start doing variations of them that we've never even thought about.

Safari

Mar-16-09, 01:05 AM

It's pretty tough to put 80% of the new generation in this catergory of reaching for the TCORK..

Personally I agree with you on this one Sessh, but I do see a lot of changes in the Norwegian tricking community at least. I see it like this, when you've tricked for a certain amount of time you realize that it's more to it. By this I do not mean that everyone starts going technical, or base their style on kicks or starts to only do msl combos. what I mean byt this is that people start evolving their style into what they think is the most fun to do.

Scotty Skelton needs to be mentioned here. he is a trickzmanian devil, he is totally unique in what he does. He tricks, the way that a lot of people call "mainstream" because he only does power moves. But why is so unique then? being mainstream is not unique, is it?

Scotty Skelton is proud of every single move he does, he loves them with all his heart, he doesn't want to intimidate others he want to do what's fun and that is what he does.

TBH, this topic really confuses me, which you can probably see by my messy post. But all in all, I don't think is as high rated as many of you think, I think most people realize that it'll take so much time to learn TCORK they might not even bother to learn it even tho they want to learn it [if that makes sense]. I'm just confusing myself.

sesshoumaru

Mar-16-09, 01:41 AM

it takes time sessh. like you said, all the teams you mentioned were around the 2002-2004 era, so it's been a while y'kno? after you've been in this for a while, you're going to realize it's not just about the double/triple/quadruple corks anymore. who wants to be a one trick pony right?

It's pretty tough to put 80% of the new generation in this catergory of reaching for the TCORK..

Personally I agree with you on this one Sessh, but I do see a lot of changes in the Norwegian tricking community at least. I see it like this, when you've tricked for a certain amount of time you realize that it's more to it. By this I do not mean that everyone starts going technical, or base their style on kicks or starts to only do msl combos. what I mean byt this is that people start evolving their style into what they think is the most fun to do.

Scotty Skelton needs to be mentioned here. he is a trickzmanian devil, he is totally unique in what he does. He tricks, the way that a lot of people call "mainstream" because he only does power moves. But why is so unique then? being mainstream is not unique, is it?

Scotty Skelton is proud of every single move he does, he loves them with all his heart, he doesn't want to intimidate others he want to do what's fun and that is what he does.

TBH, this topic really confuses me, which you can probably see by my messy post. But all in all, I don't think is as high rated as many of you think, I think most people realize that it'll take so much time to learn TCORK they might not even bother to learn it even tho they want to learn it [if that makes sense]. I'm just confusing myself.

So you two pretty much agree with other...and after reading both of your post, I am seeing that these teams have been in the game for much longer, which kinda explains some things. A few years ago, most people would catagorize the Norwegian trickers as being "power-based" [due to the efforts of Mogwai, Fosse, Carmag, and Ejik]...but now trickers such as yourself [Safari], Morten, Frezko, Starfoot, and Stefan have really been altering that perception.

In terms of S. Skelton, I don't mid what he does at all, because he's original with that shit. I do not recall anyone else basing their MAT career on the pursuit and perfection of "doubles"...before he did. And if he was the only one, I wouldn't have a problem with it...if he enjoys doing it, and it's not killing any baby seals (http://www.neobeans.com/blog/wp-content/uploads//2008/06/baby-seal.jpg), then who cares?

The thing that makes me shudder is when a lot of people begin doing this...it makes everything become confusing and convoluted and people forget about other things that are equally as important. As I have mentioned before, the Guthrie Sampler (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnGVrcfO2kE)...this kid is hella good at what he does [that being the DCORK], but what about everything else? This guy isn't just a regular tricker, he's a Sport Karate competitor. He's supposed to have well defined kicks, and strong landings; but I don't see any of that. What the hell happened? I'll tell you what, he's so concerned about doing DCORK as many times as possible, that he's allowed everything else to look horrible. And I fear that the whole community may become like this.

Safari

Mar-16-09, 02:15 AM

I think you're just paranoid, bro:tongue: You should see that the majority of of good trickers AKA. Role models, like yourself, do not abuse the Dcork. You guys [FS, LK, loopkAcks, NaN, MeM, Dan Perez] are the ones that have the most influence on us [New generation]. The only true corkers out there are either beginners or the ones who base their style on it [Hörwing, Wingen, Scotty f.ex].

The majority of trickers today wants to be individual so they start of with the power moves [backyard trickers] and later understand the rest of the concept of MAT.

EpicFailz

Mar-16-09, 02:36 AM

Like everyone has already said it'll take time to settle down. But MAT is blatantly breaking off into distinct paths, just like bboying did when it started to go mainstream. So now you have powerheads vs styleheads.

In my head MAT and Tricking are almost different disciplines. They share the same skill set but its in application, originality and variety that they differ.

Braka

Mar-16-09, 02:38 AM

I've noticed that Anis lately doesn't abuse doubles for example his recent samp.

n3m3s1s

Mar-16-09, 02:46 AM

I agree man. Kicks are where it's at!

I'd be alot happier if every newb out there started out tricking trying to land a hypercheat 9 or snapuswipe instead of Dcork.

YESSSS! :good:

Angel Castellano

Mar-16-09, 03:01 AM

I don't think that doublecork was put in a pedestal and people learn it for recognition [well, at least not the main reason]. The "problem" about doublecork, at least in my country, is that is very easy to do on a buoy, or a inflable ball in the sand. There are more than 5 people that can already do tripleaerialtwist and triplecork there. Here's one vid, trust me that more people can do it too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcvq0RcBkOE

The curious thing is that most of these people can't do a good btwist, 540 or doubleleg.

n3m3s1s

Mar-16-09, 03:21 AM

most of these people can't do a good btwist, 540 or doubleleg.

:dead:

Safari

Mar-16-09, 03:27 AM

The curious thing is that most of these people can't do a good btwist, 540 or doubleleg.

Just wondering. How do you know that unless you know them personally.

jan

Mar-16-09, 03:33 AM

Scott's (first) post = excellent.

And btwist-cork/raiz-cork has been the foundation of tricking for a good few years now... At least since Anis did double cork at FO'04. The majority of tricksters don't seem to care much about the kicking aspect anymore, because it's harder

Spectral

Mar-16-09, 04:01 AM

Sessh, you should combo some helicopteros

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk095TYE70I

xombi

Mar-16-09, 04:02 AM

Wonder why there isn't any replys from those twisters...

One funny fact is that sometimes these twisters idolize someone like sessh who's the most technical tricker I know haha.

Even though, there are alot of good twisters here and even they can't deny who's been tricking for the longest and are the true pioneers of this sport. They know they won't get any recognition from these old-timers if they only twist, so they begin to kick more. (ott & teddy for example [or that's how i see it{lol}])

And when a new tricker emerges who's been training all-around, it's a rare treat. We should encourage people like them more!
For example this guy: http://www.trickstutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57452
He's been tricking for a year now and those kicks were KILLING it!

rocketbaz

Mar-16-09, 05:23 AM

I think I saw safari posting something about this but still, I think that a lot of newbs start tricking because they see these Double Cork s/t's and stuff but then they realize that there's more to it than just the power moves. At least i hope so. Once you get into the community you see that there's so much more than just the cool looking tricks, like advanced transitions and such.

Safari

Mar-16-09, 05:24 AM

sesshoumaru

Mar-16-09, 05:28 AM

You really are just being paranoid, though.

I think you're just paranoid, bro:tongue:

Good enough for me...perhaps I am :tongue:

Snoski

Mar-16-09, 05:33 AM

Take any Finnish tricking sampler and you'll notice that they're not about the dub corks or tumbling combos (and because Vellu's a monster on doubles doesn't mean that he's a dub twist based trickster like say.. Skelton. His kicks are on the same level as his twists). That's what you get when the older tricking generation has shot down cork-tricksters since 2005 or something. But that's not all, I think it's partially because we're a very tight yet sealed off tricking community, we got our own forums and gatherings and shit, we don't get much influence from TT.

You could call it evolution of tricking, you have separate tricking cultures developing in different directions (we have joepaxton who probably noticed this while visiting here during Tre Open 08).

I wouldn't say that 3/4 of the tricksters out there are in for the flashy powerhouse shit, 3/4 of tricksters of this community are. I can't cork or back but I regularly drill my c900, invent mslegs and go for SOLID BASICS over HIGH-END TRICKS. Just like most other post-2006 tricksters here.

My 2 cents

Safari

Mar-16-09, 05:54 AM

Good enough for me...perhaps I am :tongue:

Haha, No worries, Maru. MAT will never end up consisting of only corks.

glide2

Mar-16-09, 06:06 AM

That's exactly what they said about TCORK when DCORK was being landed by more and more people.

Except that triple cork isn't being landed by more and more people. Hell, there's only one guy that we know of (Quang) who's close to landing it, and I'm sure there won't be many people who will be landing this shit anytime soon. It's like the triple back in gymnastics, you know... I don't think we're ever gonna see a quad back done on the floor.

dpitlock

Mar-16-09, 06:11 AM

This thread describes what I have been feeling for a long time.

dpitlock

Mar-16-09, 06:13 AM

In the end we actually can all blame this on the real first twister. Chris Balualua!

Angel Castellano

Mar-16-09, 06:30 AM

Just wondering. How do you know that unless you know them personally.

I know them personally for years :wink: , anyway if we trick for ourselves we won't bother for the twisting samplers, lol.

A_Wilhelm

Mar-16-09, 06:34 AM

Except that triple cork isn't being landed by more and more people. Hell, there's only one guy that we know of (Quang) who's close to landing it

this is not true. there are easily 5 or more people who are damn close to it or maybe even landed it already.

I don't care what tricks people are doing, but I prefer variety. variety in ones tricking style, as well as between different tricking styles. And the second one also includes extreme specialisation of some people. So at the end of the day even onesided tricker aid the diversity.

On another note, just because someone isn't doing something/doesn't put it in his videos, doesn't mean that he can't do it. And I bet alot of high level twisters who don't kick much, have better kicks than alot of other people, who are just on a lower level in general.

Also I enjoy samplers more which have some personality in it (being it through the way they're edited, the additional non tricking related footage, or the tricks someone does) And sometimes putting less variety in a sampler helps bringing a feeling/mood etc across. Scottys ATG sampler is a perfect example for that.

And I really don't care.

Skilzat85X

Mar-16-09, 08:14 AM

I think the whole "X% of twists in sampler" is quite an exaggeration though. Well ok it's true in many cases. But are you not entertained? If you're bored close the window haha.
I mean what, you can't do 540's forever. It's just boring lol.

I mean you should do them as much as all your other tricks, but I think we've sorta brainwashed ourselves into purist thinking that "if they don't have enough kicks this isn't good", when in reality our hearts really aren't that entertained by the actual kicks they do in themselves.

I think people like twists so much because they are absolutely insane feats, and it doesn't take a huge amount of work to be clean. That is to say, in kicks the kick must be a certain height, straight leg, pass through the target, body not looking askew and awkward. Whereas with twists you just have to get the mechanic down and then you're good.

But twists are good because they provide a challenge. Every twist added (won't get past 3, most people probably won't even go past 2 in fact) is a new level of skill. And if you manage to do all your basic tricks, but through an extra twist in at the end or in the beginning, you've just made something much more impressive! And twists can be done vertically or horizontally (you guys seem to forget that things like 900s 1080s and the like are primarily twisting skills), so there are many, many more possibilities with them.

constantine

Mar-16-09, 08:34 AM

Chan

Mar-16-09, 09:25 AM

People in my opinion will come into tricking seeing these amazing feet wanting to learn them but i do hope veterans push them back to learning the basics first. I came into tricking out of no where looking at the amazing tricks a few years after i started i have to admit corks are what i was set on but after realizing tumbling is friggin incredible, i progress from dreaming of corks to working my way up, a step by step process learned the basic tumbling got getter, now i am no so much on corks but I am focusing at the moment on being a kick tricker having clean technical kicks are fucking awesome! but that is my opinion hopefully they get pushed back to the basics like backtucks aerials 540 rather than try to learn corks asap.

Dark Twista

Mar-16-09, 09:48 AM

This thread has a bunch of awesome points. I agree with everything Sesshoumaru has pointed out, and I agree with those who have said people don't kick enough.
I find it quite hard to be an all around tricker with all these twist based trickers around. But people do what they want to do and no one will be able to tell them what to do.

I am quite proud to say I will never be able to land a double anything :smile::dead:

Jon P

Mar-16-09, 10:02 AM

The way I keep the whole balance of kicks vs twist in check when I am watching videos or tricking is very organic--due to what inspired me to trick in the first place.
I look for "style", does the person / trick look like it would be done by a ninja battling evil samurai in a bamboo forest?
haha okay a little exaggeration but pretty much true.
For me, triple corks [even doubles alone] don't look like that at all...like had I just seen a video of someone doing a double cork or triple cork and not known about tricks I immediately would have thought "gymnast" or maybe "circus acrobat".
Unlike watching trickers like Rudy Reynon or whoever...which immediately remind you of a ninja fighting in a bamboo forest. lol
So it all goes back to inspiration. People see these videos and think "ah cool I want to be mister flippy-spinny-circus-acrobat! What is that stuff called" Oh tricks! great!"
And so begins the past few years influx of twisters.
Whereas I was inspired by how sharp, clean, precise and acrobatic tricks can be...sooo not sure what can really be done to prevent this...probably nothing.
It is pretty natural and cannot be helped, I think. =[

simon

Mar-16-09, 10:16 AM

"double-edged sword" plus comme "double-ended dildo"

AMIRITE?

(also i havent read anything here apart from the original post so i don't know what's going on...)

Skilzat85X

Mar-16-09, 11:32 AM

Jon P

Mar-16-09, 11:45 AM

I don't see a ninja in a bamboo forest really doing any sort of flips twists or kicks I just imagine them running around with swords jumping out of the shadows, cutting people, and going home to enjoy a bowl of rice as their sole source of sustenance.

To be honest though I think your perspective is awesome yet I don't think it's the mentality that tricking was founded on.

Frankly, we're somewhat more awesome then ninjas in my opinion haha.

I think you missed my point haha. Took it too literally...
I don't actually imagine that.
Tricks where founded around the idea that you can take martial arts techniques and make them flashy. The people I got inspired by were "ninjas" haha. Jimmy Pham, Rudy Reynon, Jon Valera, Chris Dee, Arnold Chon, Steve Terada, D.D. and so on...When these guys tricked they looked like they were pulled right out of a fighting video game [Tekkon, Street Fighter or whatever haha]. They all had a very distinct and different style yet all possessed that powerful and slicey effect. What gave them that quality that many trickers lack nowadays?
Slicey and super strong basics. It is that simple I think. Now we have people that fall on either side [only basics or only twists] but we also have some people who are the best of both worlds. Anis, Jerm, Danny G, Pitlock and so on...
So it isn't like we don't have trickers with that slicey quality anymore. I think the problem is in the fact that most people think in order to get to the same level as those trickers they must hit the same moves as them. When in fact it is how they perform whatever trick that makes them so great.

Skilzat85X

Mar-16-09, 11:48 AM

Ahhh yes that makes a whole lot of sense. :smile:

Honestly I think I just felt like talking about ninjas. Ahaha. :juji:

Jon P

Mar-16-09, 11:50 AM

haha =D

John H

Mar-16-09, 12:04 PM

Totally agree with Jon P. I think that a perfectly done basic basic can look a lot more awesome than a lot of sloppy performed cork variations and shit like that.
Oh, and Raven from tekken 5 is a fucking trickster :bandit: .

Beat_2

Mar-16-09, 12:08 PM

I think you missed my point haha. Took it too literally...
I don't actually imagine that.
Tricks where founded around the idea that you can take martial arts techniques and make them flashy. The people I got inspired by were "ninjas" haha. Jimmy Pham, Rudy Reynon, Jon Valera, Chris Dee, Arnold Chon, Steve Terada, D.D. and so on...When these guys tricked they looked like they were pulled right out of a fighting video game [Tekkon, Street Fighter or whatever haha]. They all had a very distinct and different style yet all possessed that powerful and slicey effect. What gave them that quality that many trickers lack nowadays?
Slicey and super strong basics. It is that simple I think. Now we have people that fall on either side [only basics or only twists] but we also have some people who are the best of both worlds. Anis, Jerm, Danny G, Pitlock and so on...
So it isn't like we don't have trickers with that slicey quality anymore. I think the problem is in the fact that most people think in order to get to the same level as those trickers they must hit the same moves as them. When in fact it is how they perform whatever trick that makes them so great.

You sir win this thread.

TKDtrickster

Mar-16-09, 12:29 PM

THANK YOU for bringing this up sessh. ive been bitching about this topic to people for the past year and im glad someone else thought about it too!

Scott

Mar-16-09, 12:39 PM

I blame Matt R for the twisting craze.

simon

Mar-16-09, 12:55 PM

I blame Matt R for the twisting craze.

hey!
matt could 540 too!

oh wait.

cHiNoDaFiLiPiNo

Mar-16-09, 12:56 PM

Most people make their decisions off of trends, or what other people tell them is awesome...so their natural disposition to everything is already distorted. Let us start praising people for how awesome their "Crescent Singlelegs" are, and watch how many people start doing variations of them that we've never even thought about.

:good:

In the end we actually can all blame this on the real first twister. Chris Balualua!

haha

I think you missed my point haha. Took it too literally...
I don't actually imagine that.
Tricks where founded around the idea that you can take martial arts techniques and make them flashy. The people I got inspired by were "ninjas" haha. Jimmy Pham, Rudy Reynon, Jon Valera, Chris Dee, Arnold Chon, Steve Terada, D.D. and so on...When these guys tricked they looked like they were pulled right out of a fighting video game [Tekkon, Street Fighter or whatever haha]. They all had a very distinct and different style yet all possessed that powerful and slicey effect. What gave them that quality that many trickers lack nowadays?
Slicey and super strong basics. It is that simple I think. Now we have people that fall on either side [only basics or only twists] but we also have some people who are the best of both worlds. Anis, Jerm, Danny G, Pitlock and so on...
So it isn't like we don't have trickers with that slicey quality anymore. I think the problem is in the fact that most people think in order to get to the same level as those trickers they must hit the same moves as them. When in fact it is how they perform whatever trick that makes them so great.

YES!!!

Churoflip

Mar-16-09, 01:07 PM

Screw tricking ill make a new sport made up of corks and twists

simon

Mar-16-09, 01:15 PM

Screw tricking ill make a new sport made up of corks and twists
"In Scotland tricking is now called corking"

also, sean ruined this, what a penis!

pekei

Mar-16-09, 01:24 PM

www.corkingtutorials.com/forum

Churoflip

Mar-16-09, 01:27 PM

www.corkingtutorials.com/forum

hahahh thats what i was thinking.

and i actually clicked on the link

simon

Mar-16-09, 01:30 PM

Matt R sucks. He's just part of the new wave of tricksters who can't do so much as a 540. We need to bring the veterans back, like BLuNT and sheep, whatever happened to them?
....

Rudy

Mar-16-09, 01:33 PM

Matt R sucks. He's just part of the new wave of tricksters who can't do so much as a 540. We need to bring the veterans back, like BLuNT and sheep, whatever happened to them?

....

wait...isn't matt, uhm...sheep?

simon

Mar-16-09, 01:38 PM

yep.lolol

Scott

Mar-16-09, 01:46 PM

ahahh
what happened to that "....tired...." guy he was pretty good

simon

Mar-16-09, 01:49 PM

he was slain by "tf-simon"

also aerialaerialaerialaerialaerialaerialaerialaerialae rialaerialaerialaerial

Dave C

Mar-16-09, 01:54 PM

I think Jon P's views are the ones I can most agree with.

Tricking should exude precision and violence. Hooks should snap, crackle and pop. Every motion should be a blend of brutal and graceful.

The best tricksters don't limit themselves. They build a skill-set. A repetoire. They have sets of low-end easy basic moves and combos, and they have power-moves and destructive secret techniques they only use when absolutely necessary. The Ninja In The Forest Scenario played out by John happens at nearly every trick battle.

I believe that the instant a trickster begins moving there should be absolutely no question in the unintiated spectator's mind that this person is not someone they should fuck with. Ever. Period.

THIS is what makes a trick good. Not the degrees of rotation or the difficulty of execution, but whether or not it looks like it could knock your head 6 city blocks. A doublecork can be brutal, but rarely a doublecork on it's own.

Remember that kicks are hard, and since they are, they will always garner the same respect and admiration they always have from people who understand just how difficult kicking really is when compared to the other branches of tricking as a whole.

So, to quote a great man, teh wataboi, "Just trick people, stop making rules"

Totoro

Mar-16-09, 02:07 PM

Tricking should exude precision and violence. Hooks should snap, crackle and pop. Every motion should be a blend of brutal and graceful.
TRUE! Well, I cant combo a proper hook, but I absolutely agree on what you said. Theres nothing better than a well executed combo by someone who makes you see hes absolutely serious with every single trick haha! I watched some old Ryan Rempfer stuff lately and was blown away by his power and - as you said - VIOLENCE!!! GREAT! =D

Skilzat85X

Mar-16-09, 02:39 PM

Violence in tricking is a joke haha.

http://www.trickstutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57478

Totoro

Mar-16-09, 03:31 PM

I'd call some trickers violent! not in the literal sense for sure :punched:

pancake

Mar-16-09, 03:41 PM

i agree with pretty much everything jon p said ahah.

i really like the bit about looking at a single move. If you only look at a cork, someone could assume it's just acrobatics. But a hyper c9 or a snapu, that really demonstrates the martial aspect of our sport.

dpitlock

Mar-16-09, 03:43 PM

cali roll is the only move once landed no1 else picked up on.

simon

Mar-16-09, 03:44 PM

apart from munks hahaha.

Torre

Mar-16-09, 03:47 PM

So he did get it. That dog's butt tease was so cruel haha.

dpitlock

Mar-16-09, 03:48 PM

apart from munks hahaha.

I was told by an attendee that he fell.

simon

Mar-16-09, 03:50 PM

I was told by an attendee that he fell.
ya i know i've seen it.
he tried it the last time i saw him when he couldn't even double cork, it was hilarious.

Torre

Mar-16-09, 03:51 PM

So he didn't...:sad:

Rudy

Mar-16-09, 04:25 PM

TKDtrickster

Mar-16-09, 07:10 PM

this tread is turning into a mess....

people are going to trick how they want when they want and do the tricks they want...it's a fact of life.

new tricks and combos will be popping up everywhere, I mean hell landed one friday night. You just have to be a little creative when you trick. Don't worry about what's going to happen sessh even if shit happens the original tricksters (by original i mean 1st and 2nd gen) will always be doing a mix of kicking and twisting

the 1st and 2nd gen WILL keep kicking and keep the same style, but the issue is that this might not carry through to other/new people, and things will change. its basically already happened, and it just sucks that people are focusing on huge tricks and not technical stuff. it definitely comes down to whatever people want to do, but lately the trend has been going further and further from the martial arts aspect.

sessh ur not just paranoid. i seriously think it already happened and it fucking blows.

sesshoumaru

Mar-16-09, 07:11 PM

Haha, No worries, Maru. MAT will never end up consisting of only corks.

this tread is turning into a mess....

Don't worry about what's going to happen sessh even if shit happens the original tricksters (by original i mean 1st and 2nd gen) will always be doing a mix of kicking and twisting

Well this is true for the most part...we haven't figured out how to change history, so MAT will always consist of more things than the CORK. I just hope that it doesn't turn into this big "Cork-fest" where CORK variations [or twists in general] are the only thing that's really explored. It's true that some of the "OG's" will always be representing MAT to it's fullest, but at the same time...it's also true that they will not trick forever. And when they're gone, who will take the helm?

Right now there are a bunch people who are stepping up to the task...Baz, Morgan, Grant, Safari, Cory, Vellu, Snoski, Jono, Rudy, Kyle, Pitlock, Mike, Frezko, and Ryan just to name a few...their kicking technique and style is pretty much on par with their power. But how long will they last? Some of our most celebrated icons are plagued with injuries, and it's not exactly easy to trick around those injuries, or really enjoy tricking as much as they used to.

Where the fuck is Punshi? Where in the hell did Logan go?? Why isn't Alvin Kash still ripping it up??? Things change in peoples life, we have no guarantees as to whom is going to be staying around. What would happen if a bunch of our current icons decided to quit [for whatever reason]? Would MAT have any chance of being what it was back in 2003 [quality-wise]? Cause like Skilzat had mentioned earlier...as tricks have gotten more extreme, the quality of them has gone down as well.

Skilzat85X

Mar-16-09, 07:14 PM

The quality in 2003 really wasn't that good to be honest haha. Maybe the quality of a group of basics. But let's face it kicks were lower, moves that should have been inverted weren't, people did less combos and things were generally not as attractive. To be honest I don't think it was the golden age everyone thinks it was. Just because everyone did a bunch of kick tricks back then doesn't mean that all the kick tricks were really that good or that they were as versatile as individuals are now.

I mean I'll very much say that attention to quality of basic kicks and basic common techniques was a lot more prevalent than nowadays, that much is certain. But as a whole, I'm not gonna kid myself into thinking that things were more fun to watch back then just because that's the old school. Then again I wasn't even watching videos 'till 2005 haha but I can still see stuff from '03 yeno yeno.

thereid

Mar-16-09, 07:16 PM

Rudy

Mar-16-09, 07:19 PM

i hope you are talking about reynon because my kicks are far from where i want them :agony:

but yeah i agree with what you said... its hard to keep up that image with out getting hurt, going for different variations that just cork (although cork is my favorite trick). W/t's haven't been really messed with to their full potential nor has say 540, i know Jayel has/had worked on some crazy jacknife variations (side kick, front kick, backwards round (back hook?) to name a few) we just need to explore!

Skilzat85X

Mar-16-09, 07:19 PM

It's not contradictory if you don't take points out of context or start generalizing. Just because I'm saying that I don't feel tricking as a whole was as great back then or that quality as a whole was better back then doesn't mean that there weren't many more positive points about tricking back then that aren't as prevalent today.

(Keep in mind I'm speaking as if this all actually matters haha)

sesshoumaru

Mar-16-09, 07:23 PM

The quality in 2003 really wasn't that good to be honest haha. Maybe the quality of a group of basics. But let's face it kicks were lower, moves that should have been inverted weren't, people did less combos and things were generally not as attractive. To be honest I don't think it was the golden age everyone thinks it was. Just because everyone did a bunch of kick tricks back then doesn't mean that all the kick tricks were really that good or that they were as versatile as individuals are now.

Oh yeah, there were plenty of trickers in 2003 that had pretty bad technique...what I was trying to say was: everyone knew what was "good" and what was "bad".

Today we have a lot of people who honestly don't know what to think about this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhnbUDkmpoU)...versus this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6ninlOfR4Y). I believe everyone would come to the conclusion that they both did BS10, and many would know that one was better than the other, but very few would know what characteristics made one better than the other.

TKDtrickster

Mar-16-09, 07:30 PM

Skilzat85X

Mar-16-09, 07:32 PM

Oh yeah, there were plenty of trickers in 2003 that had pretty bad technique...what I was trying to say was: everyone knew what was "good" and what was "bad".

Today we have a lot of people who honestly don't know what to think about this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhnbUDkmpoU)...versus this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6ninlOfR4Y). I believe everyone would come to the conclusion that they both did BS10, and many would know that one was better than the other, but very few would know what characteristics made one better than the other.

Ahh yes, that makes a whole lot of sense. Thanks for explaining. :smile:

Rudy

Mar-16-09, 07:36 PM

Today we have a lot of people who honestly don't know what to think about this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhnbUDkmpoU)...versus this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6ninlOfR4Y). I believe everyone would come to the conclusion that they both did BS10, and many would know that one was better than the other, but very few would know what characteristics made one better than the other.

ok just for my clarification....which one is truely a bs10 because the second one had 3 spins didn't it...thus making it a true 10...or am i just confused right now

ninjitsian

Mar-16-09, 07:37 PM

"People are too concerned with being like Dave C, being better than Anis, and so on and so forth. Tricking is about you, not other people. Don't be better than me...be better than you, learn to master you! That's what this is about...don't express yourself by emulating KJER [or any other tricker], be your own man. So many people are "headhunting" for all the most difficult tricks like that's gonna ensure them a place among the "tricking gods" or something. FUCK THAT SHIT!!! More than half of the people that can do Double Btwists, Triple Fulls, Double Corks, etc....suck at tricking [can't even put 3 moves together with out the help of CW > Front]. If you're going to trick, be a "tricker", otherwise you're just hurting the community."

i thought twice about posting in this thread, but i feel a major need on the cork issue as well as the quote above.

i dont think mr. sesshoumaru is paranoid at all, but rather noticing an observation and perhaps making a really good prediction on what the future of MAT will become. this probably isnt the whole thing, but i think it kinda sucks on the whole what makes you good and respectable, as in how good you have to be in order to be noticed. like others said, many of it isnt even about the style you create with your "expressions" but rather what's the best trick or hardest combo you can perform. the reason why i dislike it is because many newer trickers will be missed out and unrecognized because they cant double btwist or dubcork.

i also realize that there is another side to that which is what skilz was saying about purists, although im not too sure what he means by that. as far as my interpretation, i think he meant purist by people who trick for the fun of tricking rather than trying to be the best like everyone else. am i right? anyways this may be true but what i am concerned about is i see an ever decreasing majority of people who trick for this reason.

im not going to say that i dont want to see a tcork, because it is amazing, but i can definitely wait until(hopefully) more trickers start realizing the true beauty of Martial Arts Tricking:)

Dark Twista

Mar-16-09, 07:38 PM

ok just for my clarification....which one is truely a bs10 because the second one had 3 spins didn't it...thus making it a true 10...or am i just confused right now

I think the too are the same.

One is just faster with a cleaner kick (number two)

And the first one is slower and less powerful (one) So the second one being better. Yes?

Skilzat85X

Mar-16-09, 07:51 PM

Hey Sessh this gives me an idearrr. We should have a thread meant for comparing to basically equivalent tricks but seeing if peeps can pick out the one that's better technically speaking.

Then again we shouldn't cause it'd turn into a huge argument/fight/whatever. Maybe, who knows.

Rudy

Mar-16-09, 07:52 PM

"People are too concerned with being like Dave C, being better than Anis, and so on and so forth. Tricking is about you, not other people. Don't be better than me...be better than you, learn to master you! That's what this is about...don't express yourself by emulating KJER [or any other tricker], be your own man. So many people are "headhunting" for all the most difficult tricks like that's gonna ensure them a place among the "tricking gods" or something. FUCK THAT SHIT!!! More than half of the people that can do Double Btwists, Triple Fulls, Double Corks, etc....suck at tricking [can't even put 3 moves together with out the help of CW > Front]. If you're going to trick, be a "tricker", otherwise you're just hurting the community."

a few things i felt to be wrong with this...

**note**
not trying to start drama or shit

1.) dave isn't better than anis... as much as i like dave anis out tricks him by a mile. Idk if i read that wrong or if you were jsut giving a list or something. But i've modeled my style after 3 people. Starting with Dave then Anis then Teddy and it has only helped define my style as a copy cat and as myself.

2.) I can do double btwist, double cork and i'm working on triple full...i can put more than a 3 move combo together including a double and not using a c/w front (i can't even do that because i full)

combo that is more than 3 moves =
DOUBLE CORK>hook>btwist>s/t shuriken-cork-round>hook>540>w/t>full round>hook>jacknife>c/w full swipe.

it isn't hard to combo more than 3 moves, people just get lazy.

ninjitsian

Mar-16-09, 07:59 PM

a few things i felt to be wrong with this...

**note**
not trying to start drama or shit

1.) dave isn't better than anis... as much as i like dave anis out tricks him by a mile. Idk if i read that wrong or if you were jsut giving a list or something. But i've modeled my style after 3 people. Starting with Dave then Anis then Teddy and it has only helped define my style as a copy cat and as myself.

2.) I can do double btwist, double cork and i'm working on triple full...i can put more than a 3 move combo together including a double and not using a c/w front (i can't even do that because i full)

combo that is more than 3 moves =
DOUBLE CORK>hook>btwist>s/t shuriken-cork-round>hook>540>w/t>full round>hook>jacknife>c/w full swipe.

it isn't hard to combo more than 3 moves, people just get lazy.

but how many people would notice that about you these days? many of newer trickers would only see a couple moves about you and then all of a sudden they want to be just like you. i was merely putting the dubcork or better yet really hard moves into context.

let me put it this way if you please. i met some guy the other day(true story)and we found out that we trick and stuff. HE ASKED ME WHAT MY BEST MOVE WAS. to some, it couldve been just a general question. but what if i told him that i could double cork?(assuming that i could) even if my style and technique sucked, i probably still wouldve had major respect from him because I CAN DOUBLE CORK.

and same to you mr rudy, im only trying to state my ideas. :)

oh and you quoted some else's quote that i quoted into my post. :):)

sesshoumaru

Mar-16-09, 08:02 PM

ok just for my clarification....which one is truely a bs10 because the second one had 3 spins didn't it...thus making it a true 10...or am i just confused right now

The latter one is not only a "true" BS10 [noted that both his feet are pointing to the inside/right of his target], but he also: 1) chambered his kick, 2) kicked at his head level, 3) had the toes of his base foot pointing towards the rear while locking out his kick [since he was doing a hook], 4) kept his elbows in, 5) locked his leg out completely - extension, 6) didn't hunch his back forward or lean away too much while kicking, and 7) returned the kicking leg towards the back before finishing.

The first one is honestly not even a BS10. He cheated 90-degrees off because of his starting position, and the fact that his toes are facing his target [which is not "backside"]. Aside from that: 1) his kick is not high enough [needs to be at head-level] and 2) his toes are aren't pointed [they're actually flexed backwards, which isn't a big deal; it just doesn't look pretty].

Rudy

Mar-16-09, 08:06 PM

ohh ok gotcha that makes more sense, to me. I see what you are saying. The people who watched me change will know I look like say teddy now when I trick and the newer people will just be like "oh awesome I want to be like him!" when they should be looking at teddy or someone else for ideas or to study for help with tricks, not necessarily style.

I see what you are saying. My bad for reading that wrong.

I realize you are, i just wanted to clear somethings up so I understood what you were saying. :smile:

ninjitsian

Mar-16-09, 08:24 PM

exactly:)

to me, i think one of the biggest problems is that people define style as what types and series of tricks a person does. not to say that it isnt, but i only think that scratches the surface. for example, if i may use you as an example mr. rudy, your style is a mix of three different styles, thus creating your own. what it is that i believe that you have created is not which series of tricks you perform, but how you perform them. it doesnt even have to be about technique even, someone's style could be appreciated if they trick in underwear every time or something. case in point, i think people are starting to get the wrong idea of creativity, art, and "style"

and this may be common knowledge to veterans, but i do believe that it should be stated again.

this is also the reason why i look up to the trickers that i do. not because they are the best, but because they stay true to MAT and appreciate what they do. and i know this because how people express it in the videos that ive seen.

Surge!

Mar-16-09, 10:22 PM

As long as tricking makes me feel like I've accomplished something and that I continue to meet new people (lolgay) I don't give a shit about how much it progresses.

Jon P

Mar-16-09, 10:31 PM

As long as tricking makes me feel like I've accomplished something and that I continue to meet new people (lolgay) I don't give a shit about how much it progresses.

I agree.

I actually find the past couple years have been kinda weird for tricking though.
Everyone wants to lay claims on whatever trick and it is getting to the point that half the tricking terminology and semantics I read on here are so fucked, it is awful. I can't help but roll my eyes when I read half the stuff.
People [unqualified in most cases] are literally just making rules / terminology up now and claiming it as law haha.
I guess what else can you do when so many new tricks come about in such a short period of time. It is mostly the random people speaking about stuff they made up like it is law. :bad:

I agree with Dave.
"Just trick people, stop making rules" - The Great Kevin Chen.

Nathan.P.

Mar-16-09, 10:48 PM

I'm more stoked on some other tricks that have been thrown lately then the triple cork....Its cool but I don't consider it being the most crazy of tricks being done nowadays. Spinning is only really cool if there is a cool sharp kick after it haha. MAT ftw

Cicero

Mar-16-09, 10:52 PM

lol the more people talk about this the more likely it is to happen.

Marodi

Mar-17-09, 01:32 AM

We need more bullet flips.

In the sense of originality

pete_man_man

Mar-17-09, 04:47 AM

Ryan Murray

Mar-17-09, 12:53 PM

We need more bullet flips.

In the sense of originality

We need a bullet flip with a kick on the end of it.

simon

Mar-17-09, 01:04 PM

munks did it at tamworth.
the footage should be out soon.

Ryan Murray

Mar-17-09, 01:11 PM

A bullet flip with a kick on it?

simon

Mar-17-09, 01:33 PM

yesssssssssssssssssss

Ryan Murray

Mar-17-09, 01:44 PM

AHHHHHH!!!

n3m3s1s

Mar-17-09, 03:17 PM

A bullet flip with a kick on it?

yesssssssssssssssssss

AHHHHHH!!!

WHATTTTT?

Marodi

Mar-17-09, 04:22 PM

Can't wait to see it!!

dpitlock

Mar-18-09, 05:37 AM

Let's settle this by saying you are all weaker then me. I am the all mighty ruler and I make your mothers swoon.

/

Alexx

Mar-18-09, 05:45 AM

munks did it at tamworth.
the footage should be out soon.

pfft your footag.e

my camera had died at that point

Dave C

Mar-18-09, 05:55 AM

Haha this thread makes me think that there are people out there who don't think kicks are as cool or worthy as corkscrews.

I've been a part of dozens of trickster's lives, from their first backflips to, in say, Rudy's case, first wrapdoublefull. I don't think anyone who trains with me has ever understood kicks to be any less worthy than any other trick - despite my terrible examples of them. Most beginners who ask me for help with tricks walk away from me having been told to drill pop hyper 360 crescents for the next four months. Two months later they can shuriken twist and doubleleg at head height.

I think kicks are more than just standalone tricks, they become prerequisites to the real expansion of tricking. Most of the kids (with some notable exceptions) doing the massive power moves that we're worried will disillusion next-gen tricksters actually HAVE decent kicks, and encourage their training heavily (as well as encouraging other's to train them also)

Shit, look at OTT! HERO!

The future of tricking is in our hands, so if you want it to be a certain shape, just get out there and help the rest of us mold it :smile:

Edit: Also, reading "Matt R is such a shitty newfag trickster what happened to cool kids like Sheep?" made me wanna crap my pants

dpitlock

Mar-18-09, 05:58 AM

Haha this thread makes me think that there are people out there who don't think kicks are as cool or worthy as corkscrews.

I've been a part of dozens of trickster's lives, from their first backflips to, in say, Rudy's case, first wrapdoublefull. I don't think anyone who trains with me has ever understood kicks to be any less worthy than any other trick - despite my terrible examples of them. Most beginners who ask me for help with tricks walk away from me having been told to drill pop hyper 360 crescents for the next four months. Two months later they can shuriken twist and doubleleg at head height.

I think dan pitlock is better then everyone in the world, they become prerequisites to the real expansion of tricking. Most of the kids (with some notable exceptions) doing the massive power moves that we're worried will disillusion next-gen tricksters actually HAVE decent kicks, and encourage their training heavily (as well as encouraging other's to train them also)

Shit, look at OTT! HERO!

The future of tricking is in our hands, so if you want it to be a certain shape, just get out there and help the rest of us mold it :smile:

Awww Thanks Dave!

Dave C

Mar-18-09, 06:01 AM

Psshtt

Why don't you put a roundkick in ur caliroll Dan? Then we can talk.

(Dan, despite his bizarre disposition, is a perfect example of a crazy powerful trickster who also has badass kicks - who encourages their teaching and practice)

dpitlock

Mar-18-09, 06:01 AM

Dave C was the generous comment an attempt to ask me on a date? If so, I would be more then happy. :-)

Let's rename tricking to Dan.

TKDtrickster

Mar-18-09, 06:04 AM

agreed. i need to have a crazy dan session NOW!

dpitlock

Mar-18-09, 06:05 AM

Rudy

Mar-18-09, 07:49 AM

The name tricking and all tricks will be called dan.

At Loopkacks Gathering I changed a triple full to a dan. Someone told me I couldn't, I told them I could do whatever I want.

or something like that lolololo

talking about naming tricks that have three of something in them

triple cork, cheat 1080 twist (kackroll/caliroll), triple btwist. All of these would have kack in their name

kackscrew
kackroll
kacktwist

kack=3

then they/we got to triple full and kyle said you can't rename triple full everyone already does it

dan: "fucking watch me, i'll call it the dan if i want!"

i loved the loopkacks gathering!

Snoski

Mar-18-09, 07:52 AM

Why 'kack'?

dpitlock

Mar-18-09, 08:02 AM

because we were making fun of loopkicks, so we said loopkacks.

Snoski

Mar-18-09, 08:09 AM

Yeah I figured that out but it's not even remotely funny in any way. Also, why replace the name in the first place, haha. I'll say no mooooooore.

dpitlock

Mar-18-09, 08:14 AM

Because we like to watch ppl like you bitch.

brandonn

Mar-18-09, 08:16 AM

sessh:
luckily there are a lotttt of people pushing the boundaries of other tricks besides corks and twists...

you have danny graham doing like a jillion kicks in a 900 or 1080..

then theres manny browndoing ...what manny brown does (standing msl hyper hooks?!)

can't forget the pop 9 snapu from td raizby kyle mclean.

also dj from team hurricane tricksters has been attempting snapu dleg and the infamously dangerous hyper snapu..

oh and just recently rudy from loopkAcks did hook>msl hyper twist

so theres lots of shit goin on that doesn't involve twisting...just gotta know where to look

deuces

simon

Mar-18-09, 08:18 AM

pfft your footag.e

my camera had died at that point
i left my tape at tom's.
and he lost it i think.
haha oh welll.

dpitlock

Mar-18-09, 08:30 AM

LOOOPKACKS

brandonn

Mar-18-09, 08:43 AM

LOOOPKACKS
I both agree and disagree with this post.
I see the point you are trying to make but I must say that you should try and look at this matter from an alternative perspective.

thereid

Mar-18-09, 04:39 PM

I think the reason triple cork is such a big deal is because it is a very big step up from double cork, it's a whole other rotation. Hypering a kick, or adding an extra hook or doing a missleg something out of something isn't that huge of a deal(it is cool,but people will allways be infatuated with the 'bigger' things first imo)

Nathan.P.

Mar-18-09, 04:43 PM

Loopkacks are just poser Loopkicks hahahaha......wanna be! Get a real name.

pete_man_man

Apr-11-09, 05:37 AM