LIES

[Scott]

Alright folkens, here's my complaint about a bunch of you. I suck at deadlifts (not form-wise, I just mean I'm weak at them because I never do them. I can do 300 for 5-10 reps, but considering I can squat 405 to parallel this seems disproportionately weak).

My point is, I cleaned 260 the other day using metal plates on a concrete floor. This means I couldn't drop it and I couldn't fuck up, in other words I wasn't pushing myself to the limit. I have less-than-perfect form. I weigh 200 lbs.

Now, would some of you guys who have been bulking for two months and shot up in weight to the lofty realm of 170-175 lbs (and claim to have deadlifts and squats over 400) explain why your cleans all seem to be around 150 lbs and you think 200 is a lot? If you can deadlift 440 etc, I don't see why this would be a big deal.

Defend yourselves, go.

[The Laughing Man]

It's probably because most people don't train them, and the ones that do have horribly shit form, comparable to your deadlift strength.

Deadlift strength and power clean strength are probably not as intertwined as you thought.

[tpvlyrm]

The question, Scott, is why would you think that other people's lifts should tend to be proportional to yours at all?

Or, why it doesn't strike you as normal for that not to be the case.

Everyone's different body proportions and muscle distributions, lift favouritism, exposure to different moves, inclination or ability to train them, etc. gives rise to the wildly different strengths at different lifts that we see.

By the way, DLing 300 for 5-10 reps doesn't seem particularly "weak" by the kind of standards that are relevant to us. If that 405 squat is a single, then it's definately not really that shocking a difference. Most people can deadlift more than they squat, at this level, but especially since you never train deadlifts then I'd say the difference is negligable and your deadlift strength is fairly good.


Short version: everyone's different

[frankinstine]

I saw this coming.

[frankinstine]

btw i can squat about 600 lbs.

[jan]

Lofty realm of 175, hahaha :D

[frankinstine]

WHAT ABOUT ME SCOTT!!!?? WHAT ABOUT ME!!!?? I WEIGH IN THE 190'S!! NEARLY 200!

[Kris]

I weigh around 175, cleaned 130 kg(286lbs) last time I tried a max. It was a real max, no metal plates on concrete :) Also I claim to deadlift 200kg(440lbs) 5 times.

[Rahf]

It's probably because most people don't train them, and the ones that do have horribly shit form, comparable to your deadlift strength.

Deadlift strength and power clean strength are probably not as intertwined as you thought.

They are. The first pull in the clean part is pretty much what sets you up for failure or success. The techniques may be abit different, but deadlift strength does affect your clean, if you have decent form that is.

[The Laughing Man]

They are. The first pull in the clean part is pretty much what sets you up for failure or success. The techniques may be abit different, but deadlift strength does affect your clean, if you have decent form that is.

Hmmmm, maybe I might be able to clean something if I tried then, I should try it some time:wink:

But still, I don't think they carry over to eachother as much as most would think.

[Kris]

They def carry over if you are doing some cleans every now and then and if you you have the form down in the first place, but only to some extent.

[Caveman]

But still, I don't think they carry over to eachother as much as most would think.

Haha yes the first pull in the clean is very different to the deadlift in multiple ways.

[anfeyd]

The clean for most people will only serve as really a 'speed deadlift' as most people won't develop the technical ability to load it otherwise.

I'm certain the reason why no one can clean any respectable amount of weight is because their form is abysmal. The only person I'm confident that has acceptable form is Chicanerous and Nicholai, mainly because those are the only two that I have ever seen clean.

However, Scott's form is also sub-par so maybe he has stronger biceps than everyone else to help upright row the weight.

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

Is your 405 squat a 1RM, Scott? & you need to clarify what you mean by 'parallel'. Is the bottom part of your thigh parallel with the floor, your foot? Is the top part of your thigh parallel with the floor, your foot, your face? Is your acetabulum directly in-line with the top of your patella? Defend yourself, go.

[anfeyd]

Scott does not squat at 'Rippetoe depth' where the glutes are below the knees. How do I know? I just know.

Consequently this may be why his deadlift is lacking.

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

It could be grip or failing to use the quads at the start of the DL making it like a RDL causing it to be noticeably weaker than his squat.

[Yuri]

failing to use the quads at the start of the DL making it like a RDL

hmm I do this, though I've never tried to max out



anyway, if Rianu were here he would own us al by doing a weighted one arm planche while curling scott's max deadlift in his other arm

[Surge!]

I understood nothing in this thread

[Khaos]

lulwot? i'm with you surge

[shengoikee]

scott you could dead 400 if you did them regularly for like 4 days haha

probably

i dunno

[Counterfeit Soda]

All my lifts are much less now, but I've power cleaned 225lbs from the hang, never could add any more weight to it though, although I was nearing 500lbs for my deadlift. I've always been good at deadlifting though, whereas I suck at cleans, benching, and squatting.

I blame shitty form, and laziness.

[Scott]

Is your 405 squat a 1RM, Scott? & you need to clarify what you mean by 'parallel'. Is the bottom part of your thigh parallel with the floor, your foot? Is the top part of your thigh parallel with the floor, your foot, your face? Is your acetabulum directly in-line with the top of your patella? Defend yourself, go.

Top of my thigh parallel to the floor. I alternate between parallel squats and ATG squats when training, but if I go lower than parallel I tend to either hold it at the bottom part of the lift for as long as possible then return to standing or do a relatively light weight.

Also, Kris, awesome clean. I believe you because I get the impression you aren't a 17 year old who decided to start bulking two months ago and all of a sudden has superhuman strength :tongue:

[Kon-El]

I don't know if this is the case on TT but I've noticed that often times when people say they did a clean,they really did a hang power clean (if even that and not a power curl).

Before I hurt my back the most I ever DL'd was about 335 for 5 and power cleaned 185 for a few reps. Not sure if that means anything.

[Scott]

Sorry, I should have clarified. I did indeed do a power clean, not a squat clean. It wasn't a curl, and it definitely wasn't slow. I would die. It wasn't a hang clean.

Also I should point out that I have only done deadlifts 3 times in the past year or more, once a few weeks ago, once before my clean, and once later in the workout after cleaning.

[frankinstine]

Damnit Scotty, why are you not responding to my posts? They are obviously the most important.

[Scott]

HELLO JEFF

[frankinstine]

OH!! LOOK WHO DECIDED TO SHOW UP!

[The Laughing Man]

Now, would some of you guys who have been bulking for two months and shot up in weight to the lofty realm of 170-175 lbs (and claim to have deadlifts and squats over 400) explain why your cleans all seem to be around 150 lbs and you think 200 is a lot? If you can deadlift 440 etc, I don't see why this would be a big deal.

Also, Kris, awesome clean. I believe you because I get the impression you aren't a 17 year old who decided to start bulking two months ago and all of a sudden has superhuman strength :tongue:

If you think squats and deads over 400 constitute superhuman strength, then you have seriously low fucking standards!:tongue:

[Yuri]

dude, not all of us compete powerlifting

[Hez]

If you think squats and deads over 400 constitute superhuman strength, then you have seriously low fucking standards!:tongue:

>400 for a 17 year old who has only been lifting for a few weeks is fairly super human IMO :tongue:

Ofc it's a hypothetical situation but, myes

[Swartz]

This is why I hate people asking me how much I lift. Not because I'm afraid to admit it's not a lot but because everyone feels the need to inflate their ego.

[Surge!]

You could lift a planet and I wouldn't be impressed. I see lifting as a personal fullfilment so bitching about how much you can lift is just as gay as your overly sized muscles.

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

Lifting heavy weights isn't about looks or muscle size, Surge. Tricking isn't personal fulfilment to you? What is it then?

I think 400+lbs Squat / Dead is a good line to draw for non-athletes / non-freaks. They're good markers to set & aim for & allows people to see that this person with 400+ squat / deads have been dedicated enough to get there.

[Phil D]

iv always found my deadlifts progress at a much faster rate than my squats, how tall are you scott? i think taller people have an easier time deadlifting due to longer arms, and shorter people have an easier time squatting as they dont travel as far and can lift the weight more efficiently...?

[Swartz]

Lifting weights is mostly about looking good for me.

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

Most of the time peoples deadlifts are the fastest to improve, I'm a short arse with around normal anthropometry / possibly short arms & longer legs & I'm still shit at benching.

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

Lifting weights is mostly about looking good for me.
Yeah, I was pretty much speaking to Surge exclusively about 'lifting the world'.

[jan]

I lift to get stronger, and I want to reach 550 for deads, at least 440 for squats and a bench of about 360-380.

Those are my goals. I'm far from them.

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

Word-to-the-D Amigo, me too. I'm certain you'll get there, any specific time to reach those goals?

[Scott]

If you think squats and deads over 400 constitute superhuman strength, then you have seriously low fucking standards!:tongue:

I'm saying that for someone who hasn't lifted for an extended period of time those weights are pretty superhuman. Most people don't just hop into a gym and two months later go "HAY GUYZ I SQUAT 450"

and I'm 6' tall, Phil.

[anfeyd]

You could lift a planet and I wouldn't be impressed. I see lifting as a personal fullfilment so bitching about how much you can lift is just as gay as your overly sized muscles.

Anything you do in life is a form of personal fullfilment. Do you trick Surge? Or are you too busy getting furiously punched in the face? Did you put on the gloves to fulfill other's wants? Isn't that even shittier than wanting to fulfill your own desires?

[Surge!]

Wow. Yes I do trick, but barely. It was me that wanted to do it. Everyone just happened to enjoy it.

[jan]

Word-to-the-D Amigo, me too. I'm certain you'll get there, any specific time to reach those goals?

Meh, a few years. Depends on how long it'll take for me to get my hip surgery, and how long the recovery time is.