Overhead Barbell Presses are a weakness to me..So help please

[Lees Dragon]

I am terrible at this exercise.
Its definetely my worst.

I have been doing nothing but 42.5 kgs for about a month now.
I cannot increase this number and press 3X5 no matter what.

Anyway, so I read the section in Starting Strength about it today, so as to see what i can do to improve it. (its been a while since I read it last)

I came to realize that all this time I had been pressing 42.5 kgs I had been doing so with horrible form.
I arch my back way too much while pressing, its almost as if i'm doing a standing bench press.
Of course I knew that this was horrible form, but when under the bar all that comes to mind is "so what if its wrong form, so long as you get these reps done".
Not to mention I usually miss the final rep on my second and last set.

So after reading starting strength on it today before I hit the gym, I thought I could fix it.
For the life of me I could not even press the 42.5 kgs when I tried the whole move under the bar, move hips back, just push up, etc..
I just didnt get it I guess. It confused me, it wasnt working.
I kept decreasing the weight till it hit 35 kgs, and I was finally able to do 3X5 in "correct form".

I know for sure my pressing sucks.
And I want to fix it.
I wont stand for it; being so weak in this exercise.
Can you guys help sort me out?

I'd appreciate videos of you doing overhead presses in correct form, tips, and and anything that might benefit me in this.

Sorry for the long thread and thanks for putting up with this shit. :smile:

[Honken]

Have you been increasing in any other lifts? There's no real technique to it seriously... stand up and press basically. If you have problems keeping your back still just tense your ass and brace with your abs.

Cut back on your other push exercises and focus on the press.

[anfeyd]

The press will be the first lift to stall and one of the hardest lifts to make stronger. Patience is key, microloading helps if you plan to continue maxing the same lift on a weekly basis.

Chances are you will need to up the complexity of your programming in which case overhead lockouts and push presses will all be helpful. Depending on your deadlift strength barbell shrugs can also be helpful. Close grip bench pressing can also help overload the pressing muscles.

I'm going to really, completely disagree with Honken. Key plays an important factor in how much you can press. Correct hip drive (not extremely excessive) and getting back under the bar in an efficient manner are extremely important.

[Ashtar]

For some reason I can press more with dumbbells on this, I think because I can vary the grip more to what is comfortable, whereas you might adopt a bad grip on the barbell and be weaker due to that.

[Phil D]

I have been doing nothing but 42.5 kgs for about a month now.
I cannot increase this number and press 3X5 no matter what.


Use different rep ranges: 5x5, 4x8, 3x10, 2x20 etc

[Caveman]

There's been a few good bits of info here, I'd add;

Switch to DBs for a few weeks, the change in equipment could cause some extra growth where you're being held back which could carry-over to a gain your BB lift strength.

Don't go to failure on your main lifts, failure is taxing on the CNS, which could be holding you back as you keep going in sets. If you can't get the 5 with the weight try 4 x 4 for a week then go back to 3 x 5 with the same weight the next week and you'll probably get it.

Like anfeyd said make sure you get under the bar correctly, I've seen some horrible presses in my gym with people looking like they're throwing the bar out in a 45 degree angle and catching it and considering it a shoulder press.

[Honken]

I'm going to really, completely disagree with Honken.

Are press and strict press the same thing? In swedish it's called just "press". I was taught to just ... well, press. I've found it really easy to increase on this lift but I guess that has to do with my other training (jerks, push presses ect).

[Phil D]

Are press and strict press the same thing? In swedish it's called just "press". I was taught to just ... well, press. I've found it really easy to increase on this lift but I guess that has to do with my other training (jerks, push presses ect).

Well theres press and theres military press (which i think is also called strict press) where you stand feet together and torso upright and held tight so the only movement comes from your arms

[anfeyd]

Are press and strict press the same thing? In swedish it's called just "press". I was taught to just ... well, press. I've found it really easy to increase on this lift but I guess that has to do with my other training (jerks, push presses ect).

Saying that a lift is, 'easy to increase' is extremely relative to the individuals current training status.

So tell us Honken, how much can you press over you head? Bodyweight?

[Rahf]

If you're actively using supplementary exercises like push press and to a small extent, jerks, then I don't see how your military press would NOT increase.

Of course, supplementary in this case refers to these exercises compared with the military press, if focus is on increasing the strength of one's standing press.

[Lees Dragon]

I dont really focus on pressing at all.
Its not my main point of attention, just a weakness I know I have.

I am still doing Rippetoes. I have it in mind to switch from this program to a new one soon, but I just dont know when and if I should do so.
I dont know what indicator or benchmark I am waiting for to switch programs.
I technically been strictly on Starting Strength since December.

Back to the press, when you talk about technique that IS my problem. I cant for the life of me do it "right" when I am holding the bar with a weight that would seem a challenge to my muscles.
The only thing I do is an automatic hideous stending bench press thing, which always misses in the fifth rep. My body switches to this shitmode just to get the reps done.

Major fuck up, I know..
Considering the press is supposedly retardedly easy.

[Caveman]

It's probably your core isn't strong enough if you can't stay stable during the lift. If you're having trouble progressing just try dropping the weight down 10-15% then continue increasing as usual.

[Ashtar]

Should we do push presses when our muscles tire and we can`t push the weight to lockout anymore

[Caveman]

Depends on your goals, if you're going for some post failure stuff for your program then yes, but if you're on a strength based program I'd generally advise against going to failure.

[Counterfeit Soda]

What is a decent weight, or percentage for overhead presses? All I ever see in my gym, are rediculously heavy presses, or rediculously light ones. I can't even press my bodyweight.

[Ewasiuk]

http://stronglifts.com/how-to-overhead-press-with-correct-technique/

Might be some help to you.

[Ashtar]

If you can overhead press your bodyweight then handstand pushups should be possible. I have weak shoulders and-or tight lats or something because I can only do 90lbs, and I weigh double that.

[anfeyd]

What is a decent weight, or percentage for overhead presses? All I ever see in my gym, are rediculously heavy presses, or rediculously light ones. I can't even press my bodyweight.

In my opinion, pressing your body weight is a good goal to have (not many people can do it). However, once you hit this mark you'll face an even greater challenge ahead.

[Counterfeit Soda]

If you can overhead press your bodyweight then handstand pushups should be possible. I have weak shoulders and-or tight lats or something because I can only do 90lbs, and I weigh double that.

At 200lbs, I can do handstand pushups with no problem at all. My max strict press is probably about 165lbs right now, with my highest being 195lbs when I weighed about 215lbs.

[Zeff]

I military pressed 135 today for 12 reps x 3 sets. Not sure how decent that is. What are you guys pressing for comparison?

[Ashtar]

At 200lbs, I can do handstand pushups with no problem at all. My max strict press is probably about 165lbs right now, with my highest being 195lbs when I weighed about 215lbs.
My point was having a BW press would prepare for handstand, not necessarily the other way around. Obviously a standing barbell press has more of a lower body stabilization component, plus maybe the open v. closed chain makes it less stable or something.

Another is the range of motion, how far down are your wrists/elbows going with the overhead press versus in handstand pushup? People generallte have to elevate the hands on something to be able to press to their collarbone.

[Honken]

So tell us Honken, how much can you press over you head? Bodyweight?

Last year (before my knee and back gave out) I did 121x5 @ 154-156 ish, when I started I had problems pressing the barbell. It's not much, but compared to my other lifts it's been the one that I've found it easiest to increase in.

[Phil D]

i pressed 170 at 200lb bodyweight, i think aiming to press your body weight is a decent goal

[anfeyd]

190 overhead at a bodyweight of 210.

[Kon-El]

very interesting. I'm pretty sure I used to military press my bw for a few reps before I stopped, not that it matters since i can only do like 135x5 at this point.
edit: bw of 170

[DarkXacreD]

I can't even benchpress my bodyweight. Or lift it in any way other than squats/deadlift =(

Oh and someone mentioned that pressing bodyweight would prepare them for handstands...

Handstands and handstand pushups will prepare you for pressing if anything. Obviously if you're trying to press, then you should press, instead of just doing handstand pushups, because of the difference in ROM.

[Lees Dragon]

Your numbers are all encouraging guys! :smile:
Good stuff. :good:
I seriously cant afford to be as crapas I am. :tongue:

[anfeyd]

Technique can add a lot to your lifts, you just need to learn how to use an aggressive hip drive from the bottom position while maintaining enough control to get yourself back under the bar.

[chicanerous]

My best reps were 14 x 135 and I could press my bodyweight back when I was in the 180's. I'm pretty detrained at the moment though and my bodyweight is around 190, so I probably can't do either. One nice thing is that ability to jerk isn't dependent on what you can press -- my best single press ever is 85 kg, but my best jerk is 135 kg, which is a 50 kg / 110 lb difference.

3 x 12 x 135 is pretty nice, Zeff.

[tpvlyrm]

cba to read the other responses.

Everything is a weakness for you right now, Lees Dragon.

Pressing is fucking hard to improve. I benefit from using many different varieties of overhead pressing. My favourite is the dumbell see-saw press, it feels great. I also prefer a higher rep range than you're using.
And if I'm not gaining weight, my press (and most other lifts) won't move at all.

I hope you figure out what, if anything, works for you.

[Ashtar]

I'd be interested in seeing how everyone does a press, like with what equipment, how they get into position, hand width, speed, if they use a seat or standing, etc.

[Lees Dragon]

Technique can add a lot to your lifts, you just need to learn how to use an aggressive hip drive from the bottom position while maintaining enough control to get yourself back under the bar.

I dont get how hips can help press the weight.
I thought about that when I was experimenting it a few days ago.
Hips were useless in my case.
I dont get how they can be used to help.


And I appreciate the remark tpvlyrm (however your name goes). :wink:

[chicanerous]

Lees Dragon,

To improve you press, you just got to keep pressing and get creative with your programming. A lot of times this just means manipulating sets, reps, and loads.

Bench pressing and dips won't help your overhead much, so you're not left with a lot of assistance options. Consequently, you have to go back to the basics: vary your grip, your ROM (i.e. partials and lockouts), the assistance from your legs (i.e. doing a push press or jerk), or do negatives, isometrics, or holds.

(For the most part, I would not recommend bothering with handstands, handstand presses again the wall, etc.)

I think most of my progress on the press has been rather incidental and just a consequence of putting heavy weights over my head frequently through jerking, snatch balances, etc. Also, strictly lowering jerks (instead of dropping them) with weights in excess of my press maximum has been beneficial, though this can burn one out pretty quick if you do it strictly every rep.

Finally, if your back is arching excessively, you got problems with activating your core while pressing. Whenever you're pressing overhead, squeeze your glutes, isometrically contract your abs, and visualize pushing yourself through the floor rather than necessarily the bar overhead. Keep in mind that, when you tilt the head back so that the bar can clear the face, the whole back does not need arch in order to do so; you can move the head without changing the position of the back. This sounds silly, but I've noticed people frequently have trouble with this.

Also, don't be afraid to rest a long time between sets. Not working anywhere near failure is also beneficial for getting volume in.

I'd be interested in seeing how everyone does a press, like with what equipment, how they get into position, hand width, speed, if they use a seat or standing, etc.
Barbell, from the rack, shoulder width, to the neck, standing is the press. Anything else is variation on the movement.

Here's me pressing somewhat speedily about 8.5 months ago:

ju0zxo6Bkz4

I don't make as good use of my hips as I could, like anfeyd has been recommending.

Well theres press and theres military press (which i think is also called strict press) where you stand feet together and torso upright and held tight so the only movement comes from your arms
Military press hasn't really meant using a military stance for a long while. You can safely assume that anyone who calls their lift a military press has the feet apart, unless they specifically emphasize otherwise.

A strict press is just any press without leg drive. By default, a military press is a strict press. If someone just says "press," strict is usually implicit unless the lifter is a strongman competitor or influenced by the sport.

[Ashtar]

Ah, well you could include the military stance as part of the lift... anything else being a variation, including sitting. Sitting would just be much further away from the original lift than merely widening the stance which is a much smaller variation.

Beyond not having to balance, I always figured one benefit of sitting would be a lesser inclination to arch the back. I still find myself doing it anyway even with my back against it though so it's not as useful as some people say, consciously focusing on using the abs to stop the back from arching seems like the best approach.

One other thing too, that probably goes hand in hand with that, is how we have a tendency to bring out head/neck forward to our pressing line instead of bringing the pressing line back to the neck.

It makes me wonder if this would be easier for those guys who have spine surgery and wear those huge braces which has their head bolted to their torso.

[Lees Dragon]

Thanks Chic. :good:
Your a legend. :smile:

PS..The vid was useful too. Im surprised you pressed so fast. I do it like 5 times slower. :eh:

[chicanerous]

Ah, well you could include the military stance as part of the lift... anything else being a variation, including sitting. Sitting would just be much further away from the original lift than merely widening the stance which is a much smaller variation.

Beyond not having to balance, I always figured one benefit of sitting would be a lesser inclination to arch the back. I still find myself doing it anyway even with my back against it though so it's not as useful as some people say, consciously focusing on using the abs to stop the back from arching seems like the best approach.

One other thing too, that probably goes hand in hand with that, is how we have a tendency to bring out head/neck forward to our pressing line instead of bringing the pressing line back to the neck.

It makes me wonder if this would be easier for those guys who have spine surgery and wear those huge braces which has their head bolted to their torso.
Oh my gawd.

Also, if you're going to press seated, you should do it without a back rest. There's really no reason not to do anything but standing though.

[anfeyd]

He deserves a ban for that one.

A dude with a halo on wanting to overhead press, christ Ashtar.

[Rahf]

So, what is the ROM for the people out there? Chest touch and press, or do you have a shorter one?

[Ewasiuk]

So, what is the ROM for the people out there? Chest touch and press, or do you have a shorter one?

I start from the anterior delts, press, and then back down.

[anfeyd]

I don't use the stretch reflex because I just haven't had good luck with it. I start every rep dead on your anterior delts.

[chicanerous]

I don't use the stretch reflex because I just haven't had good luck with it. I start every rep dead on your anterior delts.
Dead on my anterior deltoids!?

[Ewasiuk]

I don't use the stretch reflex because I just haven't had good luck with it. I start every rep dead on your anterior delts.

That's what I meant actually. I should change my post because I don't think it's possible to put the barbell directly on top of the shoulders.

[anfeyd]

I actually am Chicanerous.

[Confucius]

Since when ?!

[anfeyd]

Since I started resting the bar on his (my) anterior delts.

[Lees Dragon]

Stretch reflexes are weird.
I dont know how to use them properly.
It would just seem like cheating on the reps. (but obviously it isnt)

[anfeyd]

I (chicanerous) used the stretch reflex today on 4 out of my 5 overhead press sets. I would like to start getting into the habit of doing so because if I don't it really turns into a concentric movement only (unless I really force the eccentric which I may do instead).

[Ewasiuk]

Can someone please explain the stretch reflex?

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

Short: Think of your muscles as elastic bands, when stretched they store energy which can be put to use.

Long: Search google or something. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stretch_reflex

[chicanerous]

Long: Search google or something. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stretch_reflex
bwahahaha

"Consider this scenario: flexing your arm to touch your nose and while doing that you encounter perturbation which reverses the movement. With Gamma co-activation, monosynaptic stretch reflex return the movement to its previous course and the arm reaches the nose, but without it, spindles are slack and reflex will not be able to correct for the perturbation and the arm will fail to reach the nose."

Ah, yes, consider that!

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

hahahaha, it was the first link.

[Ashtar]

Halo? What?Oh my gawd. Also, if you're going to press seated, you should do it without a back rest. There's really no reason not to do anything but standing though.Why shouldn't you have a back rest? It adds additional stability allowing you to focus on on moving. Obviously you shouldn't be leaning too much against it but it makes a good guideline for uprightness.

Standing is great for athleticism and stability, however stabilizing allows you to focus more on the arm pressing. This could be good if someone has had a rough day and would waste a lot of focus simply on keeping their balance, like sleep-deprived people or something.

This isn't to say never do it standing, just that on occasion if stabilizing could let you press heavier or longer then it's potentially good.

[chicanerous]

Halo? What?Why shouldn't you have a back rest? It adds additional stability allowing you to focus on on moving. Obviously you shouldn't be leaning too much against it but it makes a good guideline for uprightness.

Standing is great for athleticism and stability, however stabilizing allows you to focus more on the arm pressing. This could be good if someone has had a rough day and would waste a lot of focus simply on keeping their balance, like sleep-deprived people or something.

This isn't to say never do it standing, just that on occasion if stabilizing could let you press heavier or longer then it's potentially good.

"Man, today was a rough day. My dog died / I lost my favorite hair band / my girlfriend dumped me / I had a lot of projects to get through at work. I guess that means I can go easy on myself in training."

"Man, I'm so sleep deprived that I can't even balance while standing upright. I think I'll go to the gym."

[anfeyd]

Hey guys im sleep deprived so I better not stand up.


Hey guys im lifting weight but I didnt sleep good last night, theres a good chance I might fall asleep during standing overhead presses. I might just have to do them seated today.

[Lees Dragon]

lolololololololoolololol

Need I go on?!

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

Lee, did somebody already mention microloading? If not then I'm suggesting it. If you don't fancy searching around for fraction plates to take to the gym in your bag(assuming your gym doesn't have small plates) then what I sometimes do is use multiple collars, especially on my press. Grab a set & weigh 'em then add them appropriately after each successful workout.

[anfeyd]

YESS AIDEN I MENTION THAT IN MY FIRST POST YOU WHORE. STEAL MY THUNDERRRRR.

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

Haha, sorry babe, how could I!? I must have forgot because I did read your first post.

Lee, make sure you give Anfeyd all the thunder.

[Origional]

Haha, sorry babe, how could I!? I must have forgot because I did read your first post.

Lee, make sure you give Anfeyd all the thunder.
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/ksm/lowres/ksmn543l.jpg

[Lees Dragon]

What does it matter who the thunder belongs to??
So long as I love you all, its mutual. :smile:

BTW, i tried fixing my technique on the press yesterday, and I managed to press it with sufficient technique (i think :wink:) at 35 kgs.
My max with horrible technique was 42.5 kgs.
So im kinda relieved its no too huge a difference.

But what the hell am I saying..
Thats still weak as fuck.

I'll have to progress on this one slowly though, cause I really dont want to stall.

[anfeyd]

If you fix your form you should be putting more weight overhead =/

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

for lee:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKEuWnMwkXY&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3_JT85UDp0&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbswrStK8cs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm1KxY8Me3Y&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT8cQ410ozk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJFjYyA40ss&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAXPJ3PfdyY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtTEMRse54g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkY9aa3okxw&feature=related

[Lees Dragon]

If you fix your form you should be putting more weight overhead =/

Yeah, true.
But I dont think ive been working the designated muscles for the past couple of months ive been pressing.
Thats my guess, why I needed to go lower on my weight.


And Aiden, you truely are BOSS!!! :smile:

[tuareg]

the most i have pressed was 165. that was hell, though.

i just started doing them regularly with sets of 4x3x132.

[Lees Dragon]

:shocked:

[Ashtar]

"Man, today was a rough day. My dog died / I lost my favorite hair band / my girlfriend dumped me / I had a lot of projects to get through at work. I guess that means I can go easy on myself in training."

"Man, I'm so sleep deprived that I can't even balance while standing upright. I think I'll go to the gym."

Hey guys im sleep deprived so I better not stand up.

Hey guys im lifting weight but I didnt sleep good last night, theres a good chance I might fall asleep during standing overhead presses. I might just have to do them seated today.
Oy, you know very well there's a huge difference between being able to stand up straight and being able to keep your spine aligned within a safe margin while pressing 100lbs over your head.

It's not a factor of falling asleep, but moreso that you lose the ability to focus and it wanders, like you tend to stay in lockout as well as at the bottom for slightly longer as you orient yourself in space.

[chicanerous]

Oy, you know very well there's a huge difference between being able to stand up straight and being able to keep your spine aligned within a safe margin while pressing 100lbs over your head.

It's not a factor of falling asleep, but moreso that you lose the ability to focus and it wanders, like you tend to stay in lockout as well as at the bottom for slightly longer as you orient yourself in space.
Man, the horrors that may result from increasing my TUT...

[Ashtar]

Eh, well it's further time you need to stay balanced. As you get tired and unstead you just unconsciously use more body english for some reason, even when you try not to.

[Phil D]

Iv always found cheating the last few reps of overhead presses but really focusing on the eccentric lowering slowly with strict form then cheating the bar back up again a great way to improve my overhead press. Lift the same weight each session but trying to 'cheat less' on the last few reps until you can do finish the last set with strict form then bump the weight up and start over.

[Kon-El]

My right shoulder has been bothering me whenever I do overhead presses. I'm almost tempted to start a my (bodypart) hurts (here) when I do (this) thread, but I'm reminded that there isn't really any point. Winged scapula and stubbornly internally rotated shoulders suck...

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

Using the stretch reflex during the press isn't cheating per se, some find it helps others find that resting the bar on the delts for a second afterwards is better during a heavy set.

I personally do almost both, during heavy sets I rest the bar back down on the delts, while trying to keep a little tightness gained from the eccentric contraction on the way down & then firing it back up there after a big breath.

[Lees Dragon]

Using the stretch reflex during the press isn't cheating per se, some find it helps others find that resting the bar on the delts for a second afterwards is better during a heavy set.

I personally do almost both, during heavy sets I rest the bar back down on the delts, while trying to keep a little tightness gained from the eccentric contraction on the way down & then firing it back up there after a big breath.

Sounds like a plan! :wink:

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

Hope it works as well for you as it does for me.

[Lees Dragon]

I guess i'll just sit my ass on my chair and watch that shitload of videos you posted for me, before I hit the gym 2morrow.
I got Presses, so will try everyhting new suggested! :good:

[Aiden Bloodaxe]

I hope you GET THAT SHIT, Lee.

[Starter Kit]

"Squeeze everything from the ground-up".

[Lees Dragon]

I love you guys.
I did 40 kg today effortlessly, (more or less :tongue:).
Im pleased cause I used to kill myself to get 3X5 42.5 kgs done with my previous horrible form.

Im really glad I decided to fix my lift. :smile:
I cant wait to increase this bitches weightload. :wicked: