A different full in full out

[SickPanda]

Has anyone ever seen someone do a full in, then back out, in a single flip? Not like a gymnastics full in full out with two flips, but a single layout where you full in one direction, then back out the other way.

I'm guessing the first spin would be really lazy, otherwise you couldn't stop your momentum to go the other way.

Just a thought.

[alpha7158]

not possable

[alex]

Try to jump in the air, 180 one way, then 180 the other way. you cant even do that.

[alpha7158]

Try to jump in the air, 180 one way, then 180 the other way. you cant even do that.
yeah, it is literaly impossable to do a full in then opposite full out

[Less than Dan]

Yeah, it's just too much of a shift of momentum. Reminds me about the whole "double jump" debate. Hahahaha, what a crock of shit that was.

[Alexx]

Yeah, it's just too much of a shift of momentum. Reminds me about the whole "double jump" debate. Hahahaha, what a crock of shit that was.

lol, i swear someone said they saw someone do it, they jumped and then gained extra height mid jump, lol

[alpha7158]

lol, i swear someone said they saw someone do it, they jumped and then gained extra height mid jump, lol
it defies laws of physics

[pooyen]

megaman can do it

[Ryoda]

Well, my friend who's a blader was telling me about his friend who could do a 360/360 jump from a height, which I thought was cool. I personally think it would be possible, but you'd have to get some nice air, and the second twist would be more of a "turn your feet around and make your body follow them".

[Rook]

Well, my friend who's a blader was telling me about his friend who could do a 360/360 jump from a height, which I thought was cool. I personally think it would be possible, but you'd have to get some nice air, and the second twist would be more of a "turn your feet around and make your body follow them".

Yeah, like, off a cliff.

[Alexx]

it's like doing a frontflip and then doing a backflip in the same jump, i wanna see that attempted off a cliff lol

[Kaspr]

honestly if u had around 70 feet of air(somehow) i still think it qould be insanly hard if not impossible just to try to shift momentum would take almost all of the time

[TrikyRiky-Zephre]

Maybe those power tumbler guys could do it...

Ive seen videos were they triple back-tuck.. and the first flip is a full....

Couldnt they do a triple like Full in/backtuck/fullout? ... Just a thought cause they can stop the spin in the second tuck.. then change their spin direction... but thats in 3 flips lol.

[Dark_Blade]

im going to say that 2 full rotations would b impossible, however the 180 in both directions could b possible. For example the other day i was trying to do a 180 frontflip, i got the 180 but i turned my head back and turned 90 degrees the other way. I was only 90 degress off from doing it, so yer if sum1 with nice height, eg prolly alot more ppl than me could do it, with alot of practice and mayb a fluke or 2 :tongue:

[RefleX]

I played a game called "Trampoline" where you can do front layout to back layout in one flip, and vice versa.

SO IT MUST BE REAL!!

[GoldenredDragon]

Like games are the truth of life...

Golden (Defies laws of physics)

[Ryoda]

Like games are the truth of life...

Golden (Defies laws of physics)
... What?

[Less than Dan]

Like games are the truth of life...

Golden (Defies laws of physics)

What the hell are you talking about?

[alpha7158]

it defys the laws of saneness

[King]

Sky-diving Anyone?

[Rook]

it defys the laws of saneness

...you mean sanity?

[alpha7158]

...you mean sanity?
defys the laws of not being insaneness!

and no i meant saneness. i think adding the suffex "ness" onto a word makes it sound more comical

[anyony]

I'm not 100% sure this is impossible.. maybe it is, but think about it considering these moves:

double straightback somersault.
full in back out straight.
back in full out straight.

full in back out straight when done perfectly will have the body for the second somersaualt set straight back to the central position, so it could easily be the second half of a double straight somersault.

then on the other hand, a back in full out straight starts at this mid point of a double straight somersault and fulltwists the second somersault.

in theory then, couldn't a gymnast with an extremely fast twitch (reaction speed) do a full in to the central position, and then full out in the opposite direction as though they were doing a back in full out straight, each twisting in the opposite direction.. this is kinda speculation to be honest, as i doubt that many gymnasts can twist well enough in both directions and can react quick enough to do this - but i don't think it is impossible in theory if you can full in back out straight and back in full out straight in both directions easily.

maybe. maybe it is impossible.

[Towlie2110]

Ehh, try and jump then spin a 360, then while still in the air do a front flip.

[Alexx]

lets ask tye hill to try.

[peg]

yeah, it is literaly impossable to do a full in then opposite full out
it is not impossible you could do it out a plane..or off somthing high just cause you havent sen it dosent meen its impossible

[alpha7158]

it is not impossible you could do it out a plane..or off somthing high just cause you havent sen it dosent meen its impossible
i meant on flat floor with no assisted spring

[Bunghole]

I played a game called "Trampoline" where you can do front layout to back layout in one flip, and vice versa.

SO IT MUST BE REAL!!

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=1236

fun fact: that game is by Dean Alexandrou (the same! :O) or so it says :P

[BboyShinez]

Ehh, try and jump then spin a 360, then while still in the air do a front flip.

hasnt Hans done this already?:juji:

[Rudy]

it's possible if you do a flash kick between them..ive seen it done

[Siphin]

double cork s/t double cork a few years ago and still today seems pretty impossible but people can do it... don't call things impossible, i kno physics says we can't but who cares i kno its not impossible it will be done 1 day

[Chance]

Hahaha, this is funny. People don't actually change direction in air. When people start or stop fulls or flips, they do it by untucking or tucking. Let's see if I can try to explain this. You start with a tiny, tiny bit of rotation while you are untucked(flip or spin-wise) and when you tuck you bring your mass closer to the center or whatever and that speeds you up. You can slow down and speed up, but you can't change direction without something more to transfer momentum with. That being said, the only way you could do this(with any amount of height) is if you use air(like flapping your wings(but hands), haha, or if you are falling from a great height then aerodynamics).

That was terribly written and I prolly misused terminology, but yeah what I meant is right, haha.

[Flowers]

this is totally possible.

when you skydive.



I think the closest anyone can get to a double jump is watching wushu guys do those step up jumps that create the illusion of a double jump

[k-slash]

It's not impossible on a trampoline.

If you think about it, how do you do a late twist in a layout? You g form having no twisting momentum, to generating it upside down.

So you coudl fulltwist and whip into the second layout and do a late fulltwist on the other side, since you would have no more momentum from the first twist anyway.

Double layout with the fulltwist on the second layout is easy for most high level trampolinists anyway, I'm sure adding a fulltwist on the first layout a different way wouldn't be impossible.

[Flowers]

Generating momentum from nothing is miles easier than switching the direction of momentum

[Chance]

And I highly doubt you are actually generating it from nothing.

[k-slash]

And I highly doubt you are actually generating it from nothing.
Of course your not generating momentum from nowhere haha. But you don't spin at all untill your hips are going over your head. So it's not impossible to do that on the 2nd flip, in another direction.

It would just be fucking hard.

[BboyShinez]

maybe this is possible on a trampoline....
but maybe let me simplify it a little, on a trampoline is it possible to do a 360 both ways without a flip, like just flatspin a 360 one way then completly openening up arms and legs to stop momentum then re-wrapping and twisting the opposite way?
i wouldnt know ive never been on a trampoline in my life :(

[ninjitsian]

fuck physics. who needs it?

[Chance]

I'm pretty sure it isn't. Even if you completely open up, you are still spinning a little and to try to wrap the other way doesn't help because to make your arms or what ever go one way your body must twist the other way and it cancels out.

[Flowers]

maybe this is possible on a trampoline....
but maybe let me simplify it a little, on a trampoline is it possible to do a 360 both ways without a flip, like just flatspin a 360 one way then completly openening up arms and legs to stop momentum then re-wrapping and twisting the opposite way?
i wouldnt know ive never been on a trampoline in my life :(


no. You just don't get high enough.


Watch skydivers do this. it takes them a good chunk of time to slow momentum down and to twist the other way

[Chance]

And they can probably only do it because they have all of the air which they can use to manipulate their body like a plane goes left and right.

[Flowers]

Well space astronaunts do it too

[Chance]

Really? Without touching anything else or being attached to something?

[Flowers]

I'm pretty sure ya.

[David M.]

I'm pretty sure ya.

dude space is frictionless. unless you touch something you wont stop spinning.. EVER

even ice has friction, very little but eventually you will stop sliding.

again.. space has literally 0 friction. you will not stop lol.

[Chance]

I think you may have seen things and are imagining it as it seems plausible. I doubt unless someone were testing it specifically then they would be taking such precautions, blah blah, I don't believe you, haha.:punched:

Edit: Yes, what David M said. You can only change how fast you are spinning by increasing or decreasing the distance of mass from the axis of rotation or whatever

[Flowers]

thats what i thought too but i could've sworn I sall em flip then stop and flip the other way

[Chance]

Look for itttttttttt!(Don't actually, haha)

[David M.]

naw man. the reason why astronauts are hooked up to those fuckin ropes when they are out fixing their ship or shuttle or whatever is because when they get sent in 1 direction, they will continue to drift in that direction until something kills them lol.

[Flowers]

turns out they stop themselves on the ship


they just tuck and untuck to spin slower

[frankinstine]

dude space is frictionless. unless you touch something you wont stop spinning.. EVER

even ice has friction, very little but eventually you will stop sliding.

again.. space has literally 0 friction. you will not stop lol.

there is friction in space.(dust/small particles) still not much, but it is there.

[Flowers]

a vacuum is what your are thinking dave

[frankinstine]

Plus comme, something you put your penis in is what you are thinking of.

[BboyShinez]

dude space is frictionless. unless you touch something you wont stop spinning.. EVER

even ice has friction, very little but eventually you will stop sliding.

again.. space has literally 0 friction. you will not stop lol.

are you still able to add another axis of movement though?
like if youre continually backflipping if u still torque your shoulder would it cause you to go into a fulltwist?
although I do know it is near impossible to stop youself from moving in one direction while in space.....the things that cause you to slow down on earth (gravity,Air resistance,friction) are not present in space....atleast in the quantities they are on earth...

[Chance]

To torque your shoulders while floating in space/a vacuum you would have to torque your lower body in the opposite direction. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction or some shiz, haha.

[frankinstine]

why the fuck has this turned into a space debate?

[Chance]

It is still a physics debate but it is set in space to help visualize what is happening and to get rid of the extraneous factors though it has gotten a bit off topic. Yes, I actually answered your question.

[BboyShinez]

To torque your shoulders while floating in space/a vacuum you would have to torque your lower body in the opposite direction. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction or some shiz, haha.

lol im not gettin this....or how the action/reaction principle applys to what youre saying....can you explain further as im sure this only applys when youre in contact with another object or counterforce (such as gravity)...

what im confusd about is since you cannot create force out of nothing im guessing you would need some form of external force to add another axis of rotation and not just tourqing your shoulders would work.....can anyone with knoledge on astrophysics please confirm or unconfirm this??

[k-slash]

Because of the amount of idiots on TT.

[Chance]

lol im not gettin this....or how the action/reaction principle applys to what youre saying....can you explain further as im sure this only applys when youre in contact with another object or counterforce (such as gravity)...

what im confusd about is since you cannot create force out of nothing im guessing you would need some form of external force to add another axis of rotation and not just tourqing your shoulders would work.....can anyone with knoledge on astrophysics please confirm or unconfirm this??

I think you are kind of getting it. Since you are not in contact with anything that you can use to move yourself with your body parts must torque in the opposite ways for you to turn your shoulders(You turn your shoulders so in response your lower body turns in the opposite direction). If this didn't happen you would be creating force out of nothing.

Now, I guess before I didn't say is that you do not actually rotate, but twist(by twist I mean just move around) your body in place.

k-slash is an idiot. :shocked:

[k-slash]

I think you are kind of getting it. Since you are not in contact with anything that you can use to move yourself with your body parts must torque in the opposite ways for you to turn your shoulders(You turn your shoulders so in response your lower body turns in the opposite direction). If this didn't happen you would be creating force out of nothing.

Now, I guess before I didn't say is that you do not actually rotate, but twist(by twist I mean just move around) your body in place.

k-slash is an idiot. :shocked:
Are you telling me that in order to do a late fulltwist, you have to already be twisting your upper body with your feet still planted on the floor to create the twisting momentum?

[Chance]

Obviously not, haha. But the person may already be twisting some, very inconceivably perhaps. Do you have a video of someone doing it?

Edit: Haha, I guess I kind of am actually, you have to get the twisting momentum from somewhere and it can't be generated while in air on a move like this.

[BboyShinez]

I think you are kind of getting it. Since you are not in contact with anything that you can use to move yourself with your body parts must torque in the opposite ways for you to turn your shoulders(You turn your shoulders so in response your lower body turns in the opposite direction). If this didn't happen you would be creating force out of nothing.

Now, I guess before I didn't say is that you do not actually rotate, but twist(by twist I mean just move around) your body in place.

k-slash is an idiot. :shocked:

o im understanding it much better now...
so wht ur saying if you torque your shoulders u wouldnt start twisting since there is no force present in that direction to make u twist?

[k-slash]

Obviously not, haha. But the person may already be twisting some, very inconceivably perhaps. Do you have a video of someone doing it?

Edit: Haha, I guess I kind of am actually, you have to get the twisting momentum from the somewhere and it can't be generated while in air, I think.
You are incorrect.

Exampler: Watch this cheerleaders kick full.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OADlWe1dozs

Are you telling me that as she is mid flashkick, she has already been twisting off the floor? If not, how was it possible for her to spin 360, when you didn't physically grab something to rotate hera nd she didn't start spinning with her feet on the floor?

You don't have to kick full to fulltwist like this, a kick full is just a variation of a late fulltwist technique.

Edit: So it would be impossible by your logic to do this:

This is a horrible example, but watch though this:


You are pretty much saying this is impossible to do.

[Chance]

Umm, kind of. You have to already be twisting from from applying force on something else and if you are not touching anything then you have to apply that force to another part of yourself to torque your shoulders which ends up with no net whole body rotation.

@ k-slash: I am getting bogged down now, haha.

But the kick(I know you said that they do it with out a kick too) can create it because the legs coming together want to keep traveling forwards but they can't since they are attached to her body. So you have two forces going opposite beside each other like this I guess:

---->
<-----

that are attached close tegether. So they can't continue straight forward and end up turning in a circle like a tornado is caused by winds going in opposite directions like that.

[BboyShinez]

You are incorrect.

Exampler: Watch this cheerleaders kick full.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OADlWe1dozs

Are you telling me that as she is mid flashkick, she has already been twisting off the floor? If not, how was it possible for her to spin 360, when you didn't physically grab something to rotate hera nd she didn't start spinning with her feet on the floor?

You don't have to kick full to fulltwist like this, a kick full is just a variation of a late fulltwist technique.

try jumping straight up with your feet and hands facing forword and looking straight forword...at the peak of your jump try simply torquing your shoulders and spinning 360 degrees....

[Chance]

I edited my last post.

But now that you brought that up I guess you could create rotation in a similar way in space, by having your legs in a front splitesque position and bringing them together and that would cause rotation too, or from together to out, you would rotate if you stayed in that position probably.

Now I must confess, I am just a kid trying to think through all of this.:wicked:

Nevermind! I don't think you could anymore, haha. The legs would still just cancel each other out.

[k-slash]

Umm, kind of. You have to already be twisting from from applying force on something else and if you are not touching anything then you have to apply that force to another part of yourself to torque your shoulders which ends up with no net whole body rotation.
FUCKING EXACTLY.

We are able to do this because we have limbs.

Do basically, it's possible to do a double layout with the twist on the second layout.

And if you add fucking laods of height to that, then it's possible to make the twist, LATE, meaning you would already have entered the second layout before you started the twist, technically having had zero twisting momentum on that axis.

So thennnnnnnnnnn if you were to perhaps, twist early on the first layout, and complete the rotation BEFORE you enered the second layout, you woudl be in a position with your arms open, to then re-wrap going the otehr way.

It's not impossible, it's just fucking hard.

Look.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fbsWHsiFQ84

[k-slash]

try jumping straight up with your feet and hands facing forword and looking straight forword...at the peak of your jump try simply torquing your shoulders and spinning 360 degrees....
You really don't understand at all.

[BboyShinez]

You really don't understand at all.

lol im a highschool sophmore im trying my best :punched:

[Chance]

FUCKING EXACTLY.

We are able to do this because we have limbs.

Do basically, it's possible to do a double layout with the twist on the second layout.

And if you add fucking laods of height to that, then it's possible to make the twist, LATE, meaning you would already have entered the second layout before you started the twist, technically having had zero twisting momentum on that axis.

So thennnnnnnnnnn if you were to perhaps, twist early on the first layout, and complete the rotation BEFORE you enered the second layout, you woudl be in a position with your arms open, to then re-wrap going the otehr way.

It's not impossible, it's just fucking hard.

Look.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fbsWHsiFQ84

I'm sorry for being annoying, but could you point to where exactly in the video you were referring to?

Because whenever I saw someone delay a twist they always had their arms out which could be moving slightly and the delay never seemed that substantial. Only the arms moving can be where the original twisting comes from.

When you said exactly, I was saying that you couldn't actually get your whole body to rotate because applying a force on your own body means that force will be pushing in the other direction meaning any rotation you got from it is canceled out from the part of your body you pushed off of going in the other direction.

And changing directions by simply rewrapping in the other direction wouldn't work.

Edit: I need to learn how to break up a sentence, hah.

[BboyShinez]

I'm sorry for being annoying, but could you point to where exactly in the video you were referring to?

Because whenever I saw someone delay a twist they always had their arms out which could be moving slightly and the delay never seemed that substantial. Only the arms moving can be where the original twisting comes from.

When you said exactly, I was saying that you couldn't actually get your whole body to rotate because applying a force on your own body means that force will be pushing in the other direction meaning any rotation you got from it is canceled out from the part of your body you pushed off of going in the other direction.

And changing directions by simply rewrapping in the other direction wouldn't work.

Edit: I need to learn how to break up a sentence, hah.

haha wow this thread is getting complicated...
if you can help me understand all chance is saying is in order to any sort of twist your body has to be already rotating in that direction somewhat while leaving the ground am i correct?
in which case a opposite full in full out would be impossible...

[Chance]

Pretty much what I'm saying, except it doesn't necessarily have to be your whole body twisting in whichever direction. It could be just your arms or a leg or something.

[BboyShinez]

Pretty much what I'm saying, except it doesn't necessarily have to be your whole body twisting in whichever direction. It could be just your arms or a leg or something.

oka got it....but then a opposite full in full out is impossible...
except maybe while skydiving as towles said because of all the air resistance and drag?

[Chance]

Yes.

[BboyAgua]

BBoyshinez and Chance are incorrect. If you study gyroscopic motion you will understand that "twist" is merely one of an infinite amount of axis in your body, and the synergistic force of "flip" is just the perpendicular rotation, and the transfer from one axis to another is caused by the loss of balance by creating a new COG laterally from the axis of flip. In other words, the most perfectly straight backflip can be twisting.

I've seen a trampolinist do a full-in full-out into a foam pit with an opposite twist on the second flip. I doubt we will ever see this done in one flip.

[Munks]

Of course its possible you just need enough height to be able to do it... however in that case it is probably close to impossible as your gonna need enough air resistance to generate a force in the opposite direction.

E.g. sky divers? they dont get stuck in 1 continuous spin in one direction... its and extreme example but the same physics apply.

[n3m3s1s]

THIS THREAD IS FROM 2006! -.-

[Nielso]

I had the same discussion with my friend who believes it is possible. However I think it isn't, because of what chance already said. The idea of wrapping, unwrapping and then wrap again and twist the other way is wrong because by unwrapping you only slow down the twisting motion, you don't stop it. You can however probably do a half spin in half spin out by turning part of your body in one way and leave another part (your arms?) facing the same way. Than you haven't generated a twisting motion but it does look like you are spinning in one way. Halfway in this motion you can turn your body back to the direction of your arms and it will look like you're spinning back again.

[Hez]

Ehh, try and jump then spin a 360, then while still in the air do a front flip.

Oh the beauty of old threads.

EDIT: oh damn someone noticed already =p

[Flowers]

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j198/towlie2110/xoutfull.gif

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j198/towlie2110/Kickfull.gif

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j198/towlie2110/Latetwist.gif

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j198/towlie2110/earlytwist.gif

maybe one of these is useful

[Alexx]

no towlie.

the only thing it proves is that you would be willing to try it.

[k-slash]

BBoyshinez and Chance are incorrect. If you study gyroscopic motion you will understand that "twist" is merely one of an infinite amount of axis in your body, and the synergistic force of "flip" is just the perpendicular rotation, and the transfer from one axis to another is caused by the loss of balance by creating a new COG laterally from the axis of flip. In other words, the most perfectly straight backflip can be twisting.

I've seen a trampolinist do a full-in full-out into a foam pit with an opposite twist on the second flip. I doubt we will ever see this done in one flip.
This.
Of course its possible you just need enough height to be able to do it... however in that case it is probably close to impossible as your gonna need enough air resistance to generate a force in the opposite direction.

E.g. sky divers? they dont get stuck in 1 continuous spin in one direction... its and extreme example but the same physics apply.
And this are correct.

Saying it is impossible, is completely illogical and false. It woudl just be really hard haha.

[Flowers]

no towlie.

the only thing it proves is that you would be willing to try it.

or an excuse for me to toot my own horn :tongue:

[Chance]

BBoyshinez and Chance are incorrect. If you study gyroscopic motion you will understand that "twist" is merely one of an infinite amount of axis in your body, and the synergistic force of "flip" is just the perpendicular rotation, and the transfer from one axis to another is caused by the loss of balance by creating a new COG laterally from the axis of flip. In other words, the most perfectly straight backflip can be twisting.

I've seen a trampolinist do a full-in full-out into a foam pit with an opposite twist on the second flip. I doubt we will ever see this done in one flip.

So you are saying you can use a spin on one axis to create spin in another axis?

[Skippy]

Mehhh try it and see what happens init.

[Chance]

Saying it is impossible, is completely illogical and false. It woudl just be really hard haha.

So saying it is impossible was wrong, haha, but I do think it would be impossible to get enough height unless you use something to help.

[BboyAgua]

So you are saying you can use a spin on one axis to create spin in another axis?

Yes sir, that is how gyroscopes work. You cannot "will" yourself to go from static into motion unless you are disturbed by an outside force, this is true. But once you are rotating on one plane, more force is required to move the areas of more mass, so when you shift your COG, the higher mass areas draw force into a new plane in order to preserve momentum. Just watch a gyroscope, they have no outside forces yet are constantly changing direction and speed.

watch:
hJMrLXbTCEs