Martial science & Tricking

sesshoumaru · Mar-21-06, 07:44 PM

I was surfing the threads earlier today and I saw the "Physics of Tricking 101" post, and I thought...what a great idea! However, it didn't get off to a great start so I'm a let it die!

This thread will pick up where "Physics of Tricking 101" left off (which is the beginning); not to be confused with the breakdown of simple things such as "jumping", but with an actual scientific post...so let's get to it!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pendulum Motion + Center of Gravity = Folha Secca/Gainer

Pendulum Motion is described as the motion of a weight hanging from a fixed point in space by a string, which can swing freely from side-to-side. After observing this...you'll also notice that the path of the weight is similar to that of an arc, and that the distance between the weight and the fixed point does not change.

This is the same motion that is the primary force which makes Folha Secca's & Gainers work! The weight relates to the foot, the string is the leg in motion, and the hip is the fixed point.

If the body is rigid (all points within the body remain the same distance from each other), then kicking the "string" leg should shift the body's weight into the end of the object that's in motion (the foot). As this happens the center of gravity (which is located at the center of mass) get's displaced. Once it shifts over the base (the planted foot), then the body starts to rotate in the same direction the leg was kicked. Since the pendulum follows a circular motion, then the body will follow it as well.

Rotation doesn't technically start until the center of gravity is compromised. This happens when the center of mass (which is located at a persons navel), extends over the base of which the rigid body stands on. In short, once your navel hangs over the front of your toes or the back of the heel, then you must take a step in the appropriate direction to retain your equilibrium. If this does not occur, then you will fall.

The center of gravity is integral to the technique of gainers because gravity only effects the what's below the center of mass. That's why your upper body doesn't get tired from standing up for a long time...it is your legs that do work. Since this is true, we use our upper body to generate more upward momentum, so our legs only have to do half the work!

When the kick is intitiated and the center of gravity is breached, then rotation is acheived. It would be the sole work of your legs to get you upside down; but once upside down, equilibrium will be acheived again, and it will take another force to get you back to your feet. This is when the upper body comes into play. When you rotate until you're upside-down, the upper body falls victim to gravity and the lower body does no work. Luckily a strong kick from the start would remedy this, but the arms would alieviate alot of stress on the legs if they were used. So the kick of the leg get's your lower body up and over, but the swing of the arms get your upper body to swoop under as your legs come overhead. If done properly, a complete 360 rotation about the fixed point (being the hip) should be acheived!

I'd put little diagrams in there, but I can't figure out how!

sesshoumaru · Mar-21-06, 09:04 PM

As an added note:

If two trickzters of the same height; but different weight, swing into a gainer with the same amount of effort and efficiency, which one would finish a gainer first?

Both of them would finish at the same time, cause the time it takes for a pendulum to make one complete round trip (swing out and back one time), only depends on the string's length and the acceleration of gravity. Mass or weight doesn't matter, and since both trickzters are the same height and under the influence of the same gravitic forces, then their swing and rotation should be similar. However, if one trickzter was smaller, then he would have a physical advantage. Due to this, smaller trickzters will always be able to be faster than taller ones...it's like swinging a string around a pencil...the shorter the string gets, the faster the string wraps around the pencil.

*Jujimufu* · Dec-13-06, 10:42 AM

salvaged

Willie B · Dec-21-06, 04:15 PM

You know im still tryin to figure this shit out completely because I can gainer. But its not solid. I dunno what to keep rigid, so im basically chucking my ganiers. I gotta figure this out. Like I stay loose for the build up. Then tense up after I kick.

Tao · Dec-21-06, 04:47 PM

Does that mean a super fat man could do a gainer if he would have the strength in his legs?

Damn, and I was on a diet and was afterwards very surprised that my backflips didn't improve when I lost some weight.

sesshoumaru · Mar-07-07, 10:29 PM

:: Posting for Ressurection ::

El Fostro · Mar-08-07, 08:40 PM

Resurrect the physics of tricking 101 thread.

TartanPajamas · Mar-08-07, 08:47 PM

Why don't you?

sesshoumaru · Mar-09-07, 01:31 PM

:: Same reason y'all won't ::

WilliamT · Mar-09-07, 01:35 PM

sessh you almost got 666 posts

Mar-21-06, 07:44 PM	#1
sesshoumaru "King of Demons" User status: Offline Posts: 2,737 Age: 27	Martial Science & Tricking I was surfing the threads earlier today and I saw the "Physics of Tricking 101" post, and I thought...what a great idea! However, it didn't get off to a great start so I'm a let it die! This thread will pick up where "Physics of Tricking 101" left off (which is the beginning); not to be confused with the breakdown of simple things such as "jumping", but with an actual scientific post...so let's get to it! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pendulum Motion + Center of Gravity = Folha Secca/Gainer Pendulum Motion is described as the motion of a weight hanging from a fixed point in space by a string, which can swing freely from side-to-side. After observing this...you'll also notice that the path of the weight is similar to that of an arc, and that the distance between the weight and the fixed point does not change. This is the same motion that is the primary force which makes Folha Secca's & Gainers work! The weight relates to the foot, the string is the leg in motion, and the hip is the fixed point. If the body is rigid (all points within the body remain the same distance from each other), then kicking the "string" leg should shift the body's weight into the end of the object that's in motion (the foot). As this happens the center of gravity (which is located at the center of mass) get's displaced. Once it shifts over the base (the planted foot), then the body starts to rotate in the same direction the leg was kicked. Since the pendulum follows a circular motion, then the body will follow it as well. Rotation doesn't technically start until the center of gravity is compromised. This happens when the center of mass (which is located at a persons navel), extends over the base of which the rigid body stands on. In short, once your navel hangs over the front of your toes or the back of the heel, then you must take a step in the appropriate direction to retain your equilibrium. If this does not occur, then you will fall. The center of gravity is integral to the technique of gainers because gravity only effects the what's below the center of mass. That's why your upper body doesn't get tired from standing up for a long time...it is your legs that do work. Since this is true, we use our upper body to generate more upward momentum, so our legs only have to do half the work! When the kick is intitiated and the center of gravity is breached, then rotation is acheived. It would be the sole work of your legs to get you upside down; but once upside down, equilibrium will be acheived again, and it will take another force to get you back to your feet. This is when the upper body comes into play. When you rotate until you're upside-down, the upper body falls victim to gravity and the lower body does no work. Luckily a strong kick from the start would remedy this, but the arms would alieviate alot of stress on the legs if they were used. So the kick of the leg get's your lower body up and over, but the swing of the arms get your upper body to swoop under as your legs come overhead. If done properly, a complete 360 rotation about the fixed point (being the hip) should be acheived! I'd put little diagrams in there, but I can't figure out how!

Mar-21-06, 09:04 PM	#2
sesshoumaru "King of Demons" User status: Offline Posts: 2,737 Age: 27	As an added note: If two trickzters of the same height; but different weight, swing into a gainer with the same amount of effort and efficiency, which one would finish a gainer first? Both of them would finish at the same time, cause the time it takes for a pendulum to make one complete round trip (swing out and back one time), only depends on the string's length and the acceleration of gravity. Mass or weight doesn't matter, and since both trickzters are the same height and under the influence of the same gravitic forces, then their swing and rotation should be similar. However, if one trickzter was smaller, then he would have a physical advantage. Due to this, smaller trickzters will always be able to be faster than taller ones...it's like swinging a string around a pencil...the shorter the string gets, the faster the string wraps around the pencil.

Dec-13-06, 10:42 AM	#3
Jujimufu From Trickstutorials.com User status: Offline Location: Magicant Posts: 1,031 Age: 23	salvaged

Dec-21-06, 04:15 PM	#4
Willie B O_o Wuz rLy GooD Nee-GaH! User status: Offline Location: nYc/fLoRiDa Posts: 703 Age: 22	You know im still tryin to figure this shit out completely because I can gainer. But its not solid. I dunno what to keep rigid, so im basically chucking my ganiers. I gotta figure this out. Like I stay loose for the build up. Then tense up after I kick.

Dec-21-06, 04:47 PM	#5
Tao Perfectionist User status: Offline Location: Germany Posts: 126 Age: 20	Does that mean a super fat man could do a gainer if he would have the strength in his legs? Damn, and I was on a diet and was afterwards very surprised that my backflips didn't improve when I lost some weight.

Mar-07-07, 10:29 PM	#6
sesshoumaru "King of Demons" User status: Offline Posts: 2,737 Age: 27	:: Posting for Ressurection ::

Mar-08-07, 08:40 PM	#7
El Fostro Un Sandpiper User status: Offline Location: Eastern USA Posts: 308 Age: 19	Resurrect the physics of tricking 101 thread.

Mar-08-07, 08:47 PM	#8
TartanPajamas Anti-Branleur User status: Offline Location: Ladysmith, BC, Canada Posts: 1,666 Age: 21	Why don't you?

Mar-09-07, 01:31 PM	#9
sesshoumaru "King of Demons" User status: Offline Posts: 2,737 Age: 27	:: Same reason y'all won't ::

Mar-09-07, 01:35 PM	#10
WilliamT Member User status: Offline Posts: 2,918 Age: 17	sessh you almost got 666 posts